lol feel free, i dont mind
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The High King Acts
Can we grant tech to our human allies as a reward for helping us out? Seems like a fair thing to do and a good way to make sure the tech we may or may not (because vote hasn't started yet) grant the remans is on a level playing field
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Similarly, do we need to take a turn action to hand out the tech to the Remans if that option wins, or will it happen on its own?
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
If providing it to our allies requires a Reach out to another faction peacetime action, I feel like providing the Remans with tech should also require that, given that it's a similar effort for a similar result.
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You just want to have an extra tool with which to argue against it
It's an effective one.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
That's part of it, but with how things will disseminate pretty quickly after the first guy gets the tech because human info-security is almost as shoddy as their construction work, I'm not as against it.You just want to have an extra tool with which to argue against it
It's an effective one.
But I feel that if we do give the tech to Remas, we should also take the same action to give the tech to our allies as well. I think it's an important statement to do that instead of just waiting for them to steal it from the Remans.
Well, that was thoroughly enjoyable and I really liked what you did for each of the factions in making them distinct but also showing the difffernce between the (very) martial remans and the much more mercantile Arabian sultanates. I wish I was a talented enough modder to be able to add my own factions for TW3 but i will satisfy my self with these very fun faction lists. As a bit of a reward though i will just add a couple of clarifications to both Nagash's and Araby's rosters.
Bone warriors of Nagash
Nagash has had millennia to master the art of raising the dead and each is imbued with a tiny portion of his infinite icy malice
The rank and file of Nagash's armies, the bone warriors of Nagash are perhaps to be feared more than those of any other necromancer within the old world. Whether raised from Orc or Skaven, they are armed with the weapons forged in the ever-burning foundries of Nagashizzar, yet despite the heat of the forge, the cold of the grave nevertheless hangs about them like an icy shroud. ions of RemWitch light burns bright in their eyes and ghostly echoes of unearthly torment can be heard on the wind wherever a regiment marches. Though still perhaps not a match for the legions of Remas or the Experienced Footmen of the Reik these most numerous servants of Nagash nevertheless strike fear into the heart of the worlds of men.
Nagash has had millennia to master the art of raising the dead and each is imbued with a tiny portion of his infinite icy malice
The rank and file of Nagash's armies, the bone warriors of Nagash are perhaps to be feared more than those of any other necromancer within the old world. Whether raised from Orc or Skaven, they are armed with the weapons forged in the ever-burning foundries of Nagashizzar, yet despite the heat of the forge, the cold of the grave nevertheless hangs about them like an icy shroud. ions of RemWitch light burns bright in their eyes and ghostly echoes of unearthly torment can be heard on the wind wherever a regiment marches. Though still perhaps not a match for the legions of Remas or the Experienced Footmen of the Reik these most numerous servants of Nagash nevertheless strike fear into the heart of the worlds of men.
The Dark Riders
Garbed in billowing black cloth and dark iron, these vanguards of death will brook no opposition to their master's plans
Nagash was the first to master the secrets of immortality, having plundered the deepest secrets of the lich cult when he was their high priest, and combining these with the fell sorceries of the Druchii. With this knowledge, he was able to create an elixir of life, with which he was able to grant supernatural strength and vigor as well as everlasting life to his most trusted lieutenants while ensuring that they were reliant on him for continued access to these gifts. Now Risen again and master once more of some few living subjects, Nagash has once again begun brewing this most potent of potions to those dark and twisted enough to come to dread Nagashizzar and serve the lord of the dead. In exchange for such gifts, these riders clad in black cloaks and dark armor to hide them from the purifying sun ride at the forefront of his armies. Mighty enough to stand near unopposed by any but the greatest of human warriors and perhaps even too great a challenge for the soldiers of the elder races to face individually.
Garbed in billowing black cloth and dark iron, these vanguards of death will brook no opposition to their master's plans
Nagash was the first to master the secrets of immortality, having plundered the deepest secrets of the lich cult when he was their high priest, and combining these with the fell sorceries of the Druchii. With this knowledge, he was able to create an elixir of life, with which he was able to grant supernatural strength and vigor as well as everlasting life to his most trusted lieutenants while ensuring that they were reliant on him for continued access to these gifts. Now Risen again and master once more of some few living subjects, Nagash has once again begun brewing this most potent of potions to those dark and twisted enough to come to dread Nagashizzar and serve the lord of the dead. In exchange for such gifts, these riders clad in black cloaks and dark armor to hide them from the purifying sun ride at the forefront of his armies. Mighty enough to stand near unopposed by any but the greatest of human warriors and perhaps even too great a challenge for the soldiers of the elder races to face individually.
Emberwalkers
These spirits of fire given a mirage of flesh bring the searing heat of the desert to every foe they face
The mages of Araby have a long and storied history of binding all manner of spirits to serve the whims of both themselves and their sultans. However, never before have enough spirit binders been gathered together to bind dozens of djinn or even Marids to their service. Only under the rule of Al-Rahid have those most easter cities been able to gather enough mages together to command them as units upon the battlefield. Under the tenuous command of these spirit binder, dozens of these genies, guised within a myriad of equally beguiling forms travel with the armies of the sultan. Their footsteps leave puddles of molten glass wherever they step and their blades glow white-hot along their length despite the casual and practiced ease with which these spirits hold them.
These spirits of fire given a mirage of flesh bring the searing heat of the desert to every foe they face
The mages of Araby have a long and storied history of binding all manner of spirits to serve the whims of both themselves and their sultans. However, never before have enough spirit binders been gathered together to bind dozens of djinn or even Marids to their service. Only under the rule of Al-Rahid have those most easter cities been able to gather enough mages together to command them as units upon the battlefield. Under the tenuous command of these spirit binder, dozens of these genies, guised within a myriad of equally beguiling forms travel with the armies of the sultan. Their footsteps leave puddles of molten glass wherever they step and their blades glow white-hot along their length despite the casual and practiced ease with which these spirits hold them.
There are a couple of things I have in mind with what you may be willing to reward your allies with after the war. But you also wouldn't be able to give them everything. They were obligated to come and help you via treaty, so heaping them with gifts for something that they were supposed to do anyway just wouldn't sit altogether right with the Dwarves.
Nah, you would send a few hundred experts their way over the next 5 - 10 years or so. The talking to another faction option could have as many as 20 or so different deals that would be possible and hammering out that outside of wartime would happen on a dwarven timeframe.
This would be much quicker
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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Ah, are these the Totally Not Nazgul expies?
Hmm, I also want to do some theorycrafting on what say, Tomb Kings' armies or Ogre armies would look like under this quest's combat system, but that wouldn't really count as an omake and seems a bit presumptuous.
Anyway, guess I'll add Dark Riders and Emberwalkers, and replace the Skeleton Warriors with Bone Warriors of Nagash.
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Oh my god, he's taken his original schmucks he granted the elixir to (non-vampire style, sort of, in the Nagash trilogy they still liked drinking blood) and now they're Nazgul.
Yeah, i figured at the very least giving them the turtle ships and crossbows would be at least reasonable to give to them in this context. Don't need to give them everything but it'd help them keep the orcs down and protect their shores against raiders.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
Say, a bit of a self-indulgent question to everyone, but in my various Army Lists, what have been your favorite italics summary lines for different units? For some I went with deadly serious, but for others I tried for some humor.
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@Lonkas
I love Nagash and the Undead as a concept and faction so this unique stuff is a treat. I have bolded and underlined what looks like a section of a phrase pasted in the wrong area.
Oh and before I forget, can we stack magical forces on mustering actions like training the rangers, or is it like in combat with the single highest only?
I love Nagash and the Undead as a concept and faction so this unique stuff is a treat. I have bolded and underlined what looks like a section of a phrase pasted in the wrong area.
Oh and before I forget, can we stack magical forces on mustering actions like training the rangers, or is it like in combat with the single highest only?
Gimme awhile I'll have to reread.
These are the ones that gave me a brief chuckle
Brigundian Levies
"Just keep in formation and remember: the pointy end goes in the enemy."
Hobgoblin Backstabberz
When there are more Hobgoblins than wolves, someone has to draw the short stick.
Screaming Skull Catapult
There are more terrifying things to see hurling towards you than a flame-wreathed skull howling like a banshee. But not many.
Arabian Mercenary Cavarlry
The Treasury weeps at the price these Arabyans demand for their services. The generals simply point to the tally of victories they provide.
Corsairs
To an open-minded Sultan, a corsair is merely a mercenary with an adventurous side job.
Slingers
If man's foes did not wish him to wield the sling, they would not have such easily cracked skulls.
These were the ones that i felt were just kinda cool, or were phrased quite well
Footmen
With blade and shield in hand, Footmen form the Confederation's frontline, carving a place in history for their young nation.
Brass Guard
Dwarfen life is precious, yet the Dark Lands demand it be spent to sustain the Empire. The az and plate ensure that its price is high indeed.
Blunderbusses
A spread of shot can quell a slave uprising in an instant, and the gruesome results are just as welcome on the battlefield.
Black Guard
The intelligence of the Black Orcs surprised Nagash just as it did the Chaos Dwarfs. Sadly, Nagash has a far more effective way of ensuring their loyalty.
Reik Archers
Archers are much the same the world over: Nock, draw, loose, don't miss. (wasn't particularly inventive but definitely captured the total war "generic archer unit" feel
Reman Siege Engine
Many forget that the field of military engineering is also within Myrmidia's domain. These artillerists are there to remind them.
Brigundian Levies
"Just keep in formation and remember: the pointy end goes in the enemy."
Hobgoblin Backstabberz
When there are more Hobgoblins than wolves, someone has to draw the short stick.
Screaming Skull Catapult
There are more terrifying things to see hurling towards you than a flame-wreathed skull howling like a banshee. But not many.
Arabian Mercenary Cavarlry
The Treasury weeps at the price these Arabyans demand for their services. The generals simply point to the tally of victories they provide.
Corsairs
To an open-minded Sultan, a corsair is merely a mercenary with an adventurous side job.
Slingers
If man's foes did not wish him to wield the sling, they would not have such easily cracked skulls.
These were the ones that i felt were just kinda cool, or were phrased quite well
Footmen
With blade and shield in hand, Footmen form the Confederation's frontline, carving a place in history for their young nation.
Brass Guard
Dwarfen life is precious, yet the Dark Lands demand it be spent to sustain the Empire. The az and plate ensure that its price is high indeed.
Blunderbusses
A spread of shot can quell a slave uprising in an instant, and the gruesome results are just as welcome on the battlefield.
Black Guard
The intelligence of the Black Orcs surprised Nagash just as it did the Chaos Dwarfs. Sadly, Nagash has a far more effective way of ensuring their loyalty.
Reik Archers
Archers are much the same the world over: Nock, draw, loose, don't miss. (wasn't particularly inventive but definitely captured the total war "generic archer unit" feel
Reman Siege Engine
Many forget that the field of military engineering is also within Myrmidia's domain. These artillerists are there to remind them.
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Feel free, I just wont confirm or deny anything
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I like the Woad Warriors the most I think so far @Chimeraguard
They're a sign of religiously directed savagery, a callback to more primitive times and remind me of Lord of the Flies: what happens when man abandons the trappings of civilization and let's the savagery and wild fury all are capable of take reign.
It'd also a sign of what the religious lunatics do in a time not so divorced from rolling in the dirt compared to later OTL Empire Fanatics, who glimpse the fall of civilization and pray for succor in madness and the hands of the gods while the Woad Warriors default to their not forgotten instincts and rage against it.
They're a sign of religiously directed savagery, a callback to more primitive times and remind me of Lord of the Flies: what happens when man abandons the trappings of civilization and let's the savagery and wild fury all are capable of take reign.
It'd also a sign of what the religious lunatics do in a time not so divorced from rolling in the dirt compared to later OTL Empire Fanatics, who glimpse the fall of civilization and pray for succor in madness and the hands of the gods while the Woad Warriors default to their not forgotten instincts and rage against it.
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Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
It's interesting to think of how the primary god of the Reik Basin being Ulric instead of Sigmar might change things. For one thing, I don't think the Woad Warriors will ever truly fade away, given their connection.
Also, the Confederation may develop a much stronger archery tradition even as crossbows and eventually gunpowder weapons proliferate, as the bow is the main ranged weapon that Ulric approves of the most, since it still relies on muscle power (and Taal likes it to.) I'll probably need to design a Longbowman unit that both the Confederation-based nations and the Brettoni are using, based on those of the Klad Karu.
My general idea for the Confederation Army list was that of a nation that still hadn't quite let go of its tribal roots, and might never completely sever them even millennia afterwards.
Also, the Confederation may develop a much stronger archery tradition even as crossbows and eventually gunpowder weapons proliferate, as the bow is the main ranged weapon that Ulric approves of the most, since it still relies on muscle power (and Taal likes it to.) I'll probably need to design a Longbowman unit that both the Confederation-based nations and the Brettoni are using, based on those of the Klad Karu.
My general idea for the Confederation Army list was that of a nation that still hadn't quite let go of its tribal roots, and might never completely sever them even millennia afterwards.
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Coming nowhere near soon enough for us and too soon for some longbeards to a Throng near you, the Flintlock:
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Sorry, but the voting isn't actually open yet despite the votes made. It's my bad I read his original post and followed it instead of the blue notice and others took their cue from me.
Chimeraguard
We do deserve to exist.
[X] Yes this is an acceptable deal
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Refuse, neither of these offers please the Karaz Ankor
[X] Accept the offer to guarantee Reman succession. This would stabilise Remas politically and allow them much more continuity of purpose over successive emperors. However every peace turn there is a chance that if Remas were to enter into a civil war that you would be dragged in on the loyalist side.
Still not a fan of either of the two deals we can make with Remas in exchange for the Eagle Guard's continued service, but I'm more alright with the technological support, given how fast it'll proliferate everywhere else. Really don't want to get so tightly wound up in human politics that we risk getting dragged into a civil war. If we do this though, I feel we should be obligated to give similar gifts to our wartime allies.
Related, I think (given that the fluff also mentions steelmaking as part of what we'd be giving) the tech gifting overall is likely to raise the average equipment level of the various human nations of the Old World to 3. Though maybe they'll be held back some by lacking in other areas or just from a lack of quality control? Most human crossbows in canon were noted as being rather shoddy to lower production costs, vs Dwarf always needing max quality.
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Refuse, neither of these offers please the Karaz Ankor
[X] Accept the offer to guarantee Reman succession. This would stabilise Remas politically and allow them much more continuity of purpose over successive emperors. However every peace turn there is a chance that if Remas were to enter into a civil war that you would be dragged in on the loyalist side.
Related, I think (given that the fluff also mentions steelmaking as part of what we'd be giving) the tech gifting overall is likely to raise the average equipment level of the various human nations of the Old World to 3. Though maybe they'll be held back some by lacking in other areas or just from a lack of quality control? Most human crossbows in canon were noted as being rather shoddy to lower production costs, vs Dwarf always needing max quality.
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[X] Yes this is an acceptable deal
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Refuse, neither of these offers please the Karaz Ankor
I think it is worth keeping in mind who the inspiration for Remas was historically. If we give then tech they will use it to invade other humans and if we give them stability they will use it to invade other humans more likely than not. Systems like this will expand to the maximum they can because that is what they economy and political system runs on and crucially land inhabited by humans is worth a hell of a lot more than the same land full of orcs
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Refuse, neither of these offers please the Karaz Ankor
I think it is worth keeping in mind who the inspiration for Remas was historically. If we give then tech they will use it to invade other humans and if we give them stability they will use it to invade other humans more likely than not. Systems like this will expand to the maximum they can because that is what they economy and political system runs on and crucially land inhabited by humans is worth a hell of a lot more than the same land full of orcs
7Ejk
Your local Internet Bruneian
- Location
- Brunei
[X] Yes this is an acceptable deal
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Accept the offer to guarantee Reman succession. This would stabilise Remas politically and allow them much more continuity of purpose over successive emperors. However every peace turn there is a chance that if Remas were to enter into a civil war that you would be dragged in on the loyalist side.
[X] Accept the offer to support Remas Technologically. This would in effect provide Remas with the "turtle ships" and "crossbows" technologies and give them a distinct advantage over their human neighbours
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Accept the offer to guarantee Reman succession. This would stabilise Remas politically and allow them much more continuity of purpose over successive emperors. However every peace turn there is a chance that if Remas were to enter into a civil war that you would be dragged in on the loyalist side.
[X] Accept the offer to support Remas Technologically. This would in effect provide Remas with the "turtle ships" and "crossbows" technologies and give them a distinct advantage over their human neighbours
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[X] Accept the offer to guarantee Reman succession. This would stabilise Remas politically and allow them much more continuity of purpose over successive emperors. However every peace turn there is a chance that if Remas were to enter into a civil war that you would be dragged in on the loyalist side.
[x] Yes this is an acceptable deal
[x] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
Honestly, i think well eventually have to get involved with the humans, if only bc someone else may do so first, so it would be good to do so on terms that give our diplomatic posture a lot more weight.
[x] Yes this is an acceptable deal
[x] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
Honestly, i think well eventually have to get involved with the humans, if only bc someone else may do so first, so it would be good to do so on terms that give our diplomatic posture a lot more weight.
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[X] Yes this is an acceptable deal
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Accept the offer to guarantee Reman succession. This would stabilise Remas politically and allow them much more continuity of purpose over successive emperors. However every peace turn there is a chance that if Remas were to enter into a civil war that you would be dragged in on the loyalist side.
[X] Accept the offer to support Remas Technologically. This would in effect provide Remas with the "turtle ships" and "crossbows" technologies and give them a distinct advantage over their human neighbours
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My logic, five turns is a reasonable time for Estalia to either figure out if it wants to keep Carcassone or let it leave, and in the mean time Lyonese can either go head to head with Couronne or try to take 16 and the Massif Orcal in the meantime since Mousillion and Carcassone are closed off to it.
This works great as it clears and saves us the trouble of dealing with 119 which helps us in the war and after. It doubles their territory and effectively creates a buffer state for Krakka Drakk to prevent the chaos tribes from migrating further down.
Honestly, I am really intrigued by this because not only is it a huge sign of trust from the Remans, it also helps reinforce that Dawi reliability is considered truly unimpeachable. Yeah we might get dragged into a civil war if they split hard enough but arguably that will mean we can strike hard and fast to ensure that the Remans don't lose too many people in said civil war, thus preventing the skaven from taking advantage.
I am also okay with giving the tech to Remas because even if they are an expansionist empire...they don't really have any effective ways to expand that aren't ways that help us.
They can't attack 33 without risking that we will come on the side of our ally...which we will, thus messing with the Reik is right out. That leaves the west with the Skaven which, hey, if they keep butting heads against the skaven I'll be more than happy to give them new toys to do it with.
They can also go east with more of the livable badlands which again, works out fine for us as they will get the lowlands and we get the mountains and it's a great buffer state for the Tomb Kings as well as Nagash, who we're going to have to deal with when the war with the skaven is over. So the more territory the Remans are committed to protecting and defending, the better in my mind.
They could go straight south and attack the Arabians which...I legit don't think we'd care about as the only dealings the Dawi have with them are as either pirates or...not pirates.
All in all, the chance to make a more effective buffer state to our south as well as getting the chance to influence and keep the Reman empire's succession even and dwarf aligned is a rare chance.
Edit: So far my reasoning hasn't changed and the arguments against amount to little more than "They *might* attack other humans." and "They're based on romans, of course they're going to expand against their neighbors." both of which I feel heavily rely on ignoring the setting as well as quite frankly our priorities.
We *do not care* if the humans fight amongst themselves as long as they do no harm to Dawi. What matters is the humans being as effective buffers against the skaven and the greenskin as possible. Plus, as has been pointed out, it will take little to no time for our pov for the tech to spread and thus we will be granting it to all humans through the Remans which is good for us.
As for getting involved. Being able to ensure smooth and reliable succession for one of our more powerful human neighbors is a powerful, POWERFUl tool of influence and perhaps the best way to ensure that the Reman empire keeps our desires and wishes in mind because we will quite literally be one of the pillars they rely on for stable transitions. The remans are never going to be big enough for a civil war to be a truly daunting affair and even the threat that the Dawi empire will come down on you if you pick a fight for the throne will make most think twice about doing it
[X] Yes, this is exactly what we wanted for them.
[X] Accept the offer to guarantee Reman succession. This would stabilise Remas politically and allow them much more continuity of purpose over successive emperors. However every peace turn there is a chance that if Remas were to enter into a civil war that you would be dragged in on the loyalist side.
[X] Accept the offer to support Remas Technologically. This would in effect provide Remas with the "turtle ships" and "crossbows" technologies and give them a distinct advantage over their human neighbours
+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
My logic, five turns is a reasonable time for Estalia to either figure out if it wants to keep Carcassone or let it leave, and in the mean time Lyonese can either go head to head with Couronne or try to take 16 and the Massif Orcal in the meantime since Mousillion and Carcassone are closed off to it.
This works great as it clears and saves us the trouble of dealing with 119 which helps us in the war and after. It doubles their territory and effectively creates a buffer state for Krakka Drakk to prevent the chaos tribes from migrating further down.
Honestly, I am really intrigued by this because not only is it a huge sign of trust from the Remans, it also helps reinforce that Dawi reliability is considered truly unimpeachable. Yeah we might get dragged into a civil war if they split hard enough but arguably that will mean we can strike hard and fast to ensure that the Remans don't lose too many people in said civil war, thus preventing the skaven from taking advantage.
I am also okay with giving the tech to Remas because even if they are an expansionist empire...they don't really have any effective ways to expand that aren't ways that help us.
They can't attack 33 without risking that we will come on the side of our ally...which we will, thus messing with the Reik is right out. That leaves the west with the Skaven which, hey, if they keep butting heads against the skaven I'll be more than happy to give them new toys to do it with.
They can also go east with more of the livable badlands which again, works out fine for us as they will get the lowlands and we get the mountains and it's a great buffer state for the Tomb Kings as well as Nagash, who we're going to have to deal with when the war with the skaven is over. So the more territory the Remans are committed to protecting and defending, the better in my mind.
They could go straight south and attack the Arabians which...I legit don't think we'd care about as the only dealings the Dawi have with them are as either pirates or...not pirates.
All in all, the chance to make a more effective buffer state to our south as well as getting the chance to influence and keep the Reman empire's succession even and dwarf aligned is a rare chance.
Edit: So far my reasoning hasn't changed and the arguments against amount to little more than "They *might* attack other humans." and "They're based on romans, of course they're going to expand against their neighbors." both of which I feel heavily rely on ignoring the setting as well as quite frankly our priorities.
We *do not care* if the humans fight amongst themselves as long as they do no harm to Dawi. What matters is the humans being as effective buffers against the skaven and the greenskin as possible. Plus, as has been pointed out, it will take little to no time for our pov for the tech to spread and thus we will be granting it to all humans through the Remans which is good for us.
As for getting involved. Being able to ensure smooth and reliable succession for one of our more powerful human neighbors is a powerful, POWERFUl tool of influence and perhaps the best way to ensure that the Reman empire keeps our desires and wishes in mind because we will quite literally be one of the pillars they rely on for stable transitions. The remans are never going to be big enough for a civil war to be a truly daunting affair and even the threat that the Dawi empire will come down on you if you pick a fight for the throne will make most think twice about doing it