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To Struggle and Strive: The Combined Syndicates of America in 1932. A Kaiserreich Quest

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Questwolf said:
I can see where your coming from but I think this is a chance to build a strong anti-government coalition. "calm things down" is not backing down or letting the moment slip away. It's taking a advantage of the moment to form alliances for the coming conflict. The longer we have until the civil war the stronger and more legitimate we become even as the government rots on the vine. If we stand up and say "its revolution now or never" we will be in a much worse situation than is we waited and continued to build up industry, armies and alliances. The time to do all that is before the shooting starts. There are so many thing that are still being built right now. For just one example just look at the militia in the black belt they are so much stronger than they where but they will likely still venerable if we kick things of right now. If we have to fight the revolution now we can but I truly believe that the longer can go before the civil war kicks off the better position we will be in.
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The thing is that opportunities don't just come along. There has never been a successful communist revolution in world history where the revolutionary party just waited until everything was perfect for them and conditions were great and then pulled the lever.

Even so I'm not advocating the 4th position, which would involve attempting to start the war with a first strike.
 
I get that but I'm not looking for a "perfect" opportunity for an all or nothing power grab. I'm looking for what gets us closer to power right now. What can we do right now that puts us in the better position for the inevitable civil war to come? I believe that an electoral and military alliance with Long and Olson advances our cause more than going all in on an immediate revolution right now. That will give an excellent opportunity for MacArthur and the army to step in to "protect the democratic process"
 
Questwolf said:
I get that but I'm not looking for a "perfect" opportunity for an all or nothing power grab. I'm looking for what gets us closer to power right now. What can we do right now that puts us in the better position for the inevitable civil war to come? I believe that an electoral and military alliance with Long and Olson advances our cause more than going all in on an immediate revolution right now. That will give an excellent opportunity for MacArthur and the army to step in to "protect the democratic process"
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Nobody's proposing that though. There's an "all in on immediate revolution" option, and so far nobody has advocated for it.
 
It is deliberately ambiguous if you mean that or if you mean that things are going to get worse unless huge changes are made or you are predicting a coup by MacArthur et al.

Which you are considering the most likely will be based off thread discussion, to a degree.
 
Questwolf said:
I though that the revolution "by bullet or ballot" meant that if we didn't win we would launch the revolution?
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I took it more as threat that if the election was not allowed to run its course in an honest manner the socialists will stop playing nice. It is the option I am paritial too because it does not press the button but does not have us back down as election become meaningless.
 
I truly think we need to call schenk others and prepare for the worst. If the war is starting the first few moments will be the most vital. We Can't afford not too
 
This is just the midterms right? Presidential election is still two years away.

For legitimacy reasons and moral reasons I would like us to actually win the presidency and have he capitalists fire the first shot.


Also what's up with all the red guards we sent to South America? Wouldn't we need them back first before we kick things off? We did send a lot of people.
 
[X] Place a call to Olson and to Long. You will need their support to calm things down. They both clearly have a plan, if the three of you work together, the revolution can begin from a stronger position.
 
As previously mentioned, aggressive rhetoric can easily backfire because everyone else can paint you as a bloodthirsty radical who started all the violence.

I also much prefer a revolution by the ballot (as do most of the people we're trying to help). Not only does it give us the privilege of being the legitimate government of the United States in the eyes of the world, much of the preexisting administration (including states and portions of the armed forces) and the population. It also makes a nonviolent revolution/transfer of power much easier, which is basically the purpose of representative democracy anyway.
(Ie: we can make the civil war much less violent and destructive or even avoid it altogether).

Coups and violent revolutions also have a very VERY poor track record of actually making things better for anyone, especially when their purpose is to install more democratic governance.
We've also spent quite a lot of time building coalitions with moderates and wooing the middle-class. Doing all of this for nothing would be quite stupid and we need their goodwill if we actually want a functioning democracy at the end of all of this.


Also I don't want to 'disappear' if the Totalists take power.
 
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You have been keeping track of how well that's been going, right? It's only a midterm and yet the Feds are pulling out every dirty trick in the book to steal an electoral victory out from under us. If capitalists are given an option between accepting socialism's electoral legitimacy and a pro-capitalist putsch they'll be slam on the button for the latter every single time.

America's workers are making their displeasure known at every level of society, without any prompting from us. We're not the ones who instigated this general strike, or who called for the formation of the second Seattle Commune. It'd be a betrayal of everything syndicalism claims to stand for to walk up to these brave souls and tell them 'we'll have the revolution later, we promise. When? Don't ask questions, comrade. Now get back to work.'

Showing resolve in the solidarity with those struggles and daring the Feds to shoot first is the best way to start the rally of the working class, should it finally come to civil war.
 
Justinian said:
I truly think we need to call schenk others and prepare for the worst. If the war is starting the first few moments will be the most vital. We Can't afford not too
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I agree that we need to prepare and be on full alert. However, we absolutely cannot be the ones to strike first. We have basically no chance of decapitating the Feds with a first strike, and it will lose us a ton of popular support.
notbirdofprey said:
[] Place a call to Schenck, Thomas, and Butler. It's only a matter of time before the reactionaries try to purge you all. You need to be ready. You need to head them off, to seize the initiative. You have plans for this...
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The main problem with this option is this implication that we should take the offensive. As I stated, above, I think this is close to suicidal. I believe we should call Schenk et al, but not as a very first step, as this will set absolutely the wrong tone.
 
[X] From the steps of the building you march, fury in your eyes. "The people of America have sought to make their grievances known by electing the only people who sought to fix this country, and capitalists and reactionaries have responded with nothing but violence and fraud. There are only two paths now, and our enemies shall be the ones to choose it. Will you have revolution by the ballot, or by the bullet?"
 
[X] From the steps of the building you march, fury in your eyes. "The people of America have sought to make their grievances known by electing the only people who sought to fix this country, and capitalists and reactionaries have responded with nothing but violence and fraud. There are only two paths now, and our enemies shall be the ones to choose it. Will you have revolution by the ballot, or by the bullet?"
 
[X] From the steps of the building you march, fury in your eyes. "The people of America have sought to make their grievances known by electing the only people who sought to fix this country, and capitalists and reactionaries have responded with nothing but violence and fraud. There are only two paths now, and our enemies shall be the ones to choose it. Will you have revolution by the ballot, or by the bullet?"
 
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[X] From the steps of the building you march, fury in your eyes. "The people of America have sought to make their grievances known by electing the only people who sought to fix this country, and capitalists and reactionaries have responded with nothing but violence and fraud. There are only two paths now, and our enemies shall be the ones to choose it. Will you have revolution by the ballot, or by the bullet?"
 
[X] Place a call to Olson and to Long. You will need their support to calm things down. They both clearly have a plan, if the three of you work together, the revolution can begin from a stronger position.
 
[X] From the steps of the building you march, fury in your eyes. "The people of America have sought to make their grievances known by electing the only people who sought to fix this country, and capitalists and reactionaries have responded with nothing but violence and fraud. There are only two paths now, and our enemies shall be the ones to choose it. Will you have revolution by the ballot, or by the bullet?"
 
[X] From the steps of the building you march, fury in your eyes. "The people of America have sought to make their grievances known by electing the only people who sought to fix this country, and capitalists and reactionaries have responded with nothing but violence and fraud. There are only two paths now, and our enemies shall be the ones to choose it. Will you have revolution by the ballot, or by the bullet?"
 
[X] Place a call to Schenck, Thomas, and Butler. It's only a matter of time before the reactionaries try to purge you all. You need to be ready. You need to head them off, to seize the initiative. You have plans for this...
 
[X] Place a call to Olson and to Long. You will need their support to calm things down. They both clearly have a plan, if the three of you work together, the revolution can begin from a stronger position.
 
The only way to actually avert a civil war at this point if the Feds are as determined to see the country burn as they seem to be, from our end, is to just surrender and let the Feds win, and even that might not actually work since they'll reasonably see it as a sign of weakness to be exploited.

Better to draw a line in the sand and see whether the Feds, not us, cross it. Whether the Feds, not us, start a Civil War.
 
[X] From the steps of the building you march, fury in your eyes. "The people of America have sought to make their grievances known by electing the only people who sought to fix this country, and capitalists and reactionaries have responded with nothing but violence and fraud. There are only two paths now, and our enemies shall be the ones to choose it. Will you have revolution by the ballot, or by the bullet?"
 
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