OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
What does this imply?
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
What does this imply?
- Location
- Canada
That was also my first reaction but then I remembered that we're a Progression-type Cursebearer and that a vigintillion eons is orders of magnitude greater than the duration of Indenture, so if we can't find a way around this by then someone should revoke our Cursebearer membership card.
I mean, this
implies pretty clearly that the Forebear was the one who originally cursed the Accursed with Tyranny. So yes, Forebear was indeed swole.
I feel like Hunger will do more good overall by privileging long term survival over just making his subjects as comfy as possible in the immediate present...
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Man, its funny if you think about it. Hunger was living inside Maiden's head rent free for infinite amount of time. She dedicated her every waking moment, which is basically her every moment, to thinking about Hunger. She built up her entire life around Hunger, spent all of this time specifically for express purpose of having Hunger-senpai notice her. All the while Hunger didn't even know that she was a thing; talk about stalking.
So, we could indulge her delusion of grandeur and pick one of the two fight mc edge options and actually do what she wants to do - have a good old good vs evil, chaos vs order throwdown. Or, we could completely and utterly cuck her ultimate dream battle plan and just .. be a bigger man. Walk away. Leave her seething at her own impotence while we chill out with our buddies and subjects.
It might not the be the best plan, it might not be the smartest plan, but it is for sure the one that that will make Maiden look like biggest multiversal joke since Pennywise. And that's gotta count for something.
So, we could indulge her delusion of grandeur and pick one of the two fight mc edge options and actually do what she wants to do - have a good old good vs evil, chaos vs order throwdown. Or, we could completely and utterly cuck her ultimate dream battle plan and just .. be a bigger man. Walk away. Leave her seething at her own impotence while we chill out with our buddies and subjects.
It might not the be the best plan, it might not be the smartest plan, but it is for sure the one that that will make Maiden look like biggest multiversal joke since Pennywise. And that's gotta count for something.
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Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
So I've thought. I've considered. I asked myself a single question.
Who are we?
Are we the Forebear? The Tyrant that carved his name into the very foundations of existence?
Are we the Sovereign of the Human Sphere? The leader and king who will protect and nurture all under his yoke from the horrors beyond?
Which one is it? Which path is our truth? What is our fate? Not the one chosen for us by forces beyond but the one we carved out for ourselves.
The answer is simple. We are both. We are neither.
We were nothing at first. Just a husk. A shadow of a fragment of something greater. But that changed with one single decision.
The choosing of a name. That name, the moment it was chosen was carved into our very soul.
We are, will be, and always have been Hunger.
Every step taken, every power gained, every foe slain has always been done while under influence of the Ring. Under the Mantle of Hunger.
It's not just an item, it's us. Our true origin. And that will never change.
Embracing the past means to turn your back on present.
Striving towards the future means to blind yourself of what's around you.
So let's not forget who we are.
Don't wish for the past. Accept the lessons it has taught and move on.
Don't worry over the future. It has yet to be written.
Live. Embrace the here and now. Both the good and the bad. The friends we have now. The people we care for and who care for us.
Because that's what true happiness is.
So don't falter. Don't lament. Don't obsess. Let just keep going. Like we always have. Like we always will. One step at a time.
[X] The Ring Crimson - Blood Halo
Who are we?
Are we the Forebear? The Tyrant that carved his name into the very foundations of existence?
Are we the Sovereign of the Human Sphere? The leader and king who will protect and nurture all under his yoke from the horrors beyond?
Which one is it? Which path is our truth? What is our fate? Not the one chosen for us by forces beyond but the one we carved out for ourselves.
The answer is simple. We are both. We are neither.
We were nothing at first. Just a husk. A shadow of a fragment of something greater. But that changed with one single decision.
The choosing of a name. That name, the moment it was chosen was carved into our very soul.
We are, will be, and always have been Hunger.
Every step taken, every power gained, every foe slain has always been done while under influence of the Ring. Under the Mantle of Hunger.
It's not just an item, it's us. Our true origin. And that will never change.
Embracing the past means to turn your back on present.
Striving towards the future means to blind yourself of what's around you.
So let's not forget who we are.
Don't wish for the past. Accept the lessons it has taught and move on.
Don't worry over the future. It has yet to be written.
Live. Embrace the here and now. Both the good and the bad. The friends we have now. The people we care for and who care for us.
Because that's what true happiness is.
So don't falter. Don't lament. Don't obsess. Let just keep going. Like we always have. Like we always will. One step at a time.
[X] The Ring Crimson - Blood Halo
[X] The Ring Crimson - Blood Halo
I was pretty torn between Inheritance and Blood Halo, but thanks for reminding me what's really important in a quest - looking sick as all hell. Say it with me guys, it's all about that A E S T H E T I C
Crimson Praxis is genuinely the greatest benefit of Blood Halo, that's why it merits its own line! Rihaku finally gives us the opportunity to take the red Reiatsu option from Bleach Quest. No wonder Blood Halo represents the present, it's such a great gift!
Also, edge is literally the foundation of Hunger and the Forebear. Even excepting that Hunger is literally called Hunger, is some kind of undead blood-wraith, him and the Forebear defined their personality around Cutting Through. Thus, More Edge = More Cutting. It's simple and makes perfect sense!
[X] The Forebear's Blade - Inheritance
- Location
- Pindorama
You know, given the infinitely escalating nature of Rihaku's universe, if we don't prioritize the well being of our people when possible we will never do it. Even High Cursebearers have foes they need to worry about and the barest iota of effort diverted from that may actually have calamitous consequences. There will never be a point where prioritizing the well-being of other people will be "optimal" for our survival, that's kind of the point. Do you think Haliel giving us even the barest fraction of her attention was the maximally optimal choice, for example?
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- Location
- Canada
I feel like Imperishable Night isn't even the best thing we can do for these people in the first place, though. It seems to privilege their immediate comfort over their long term survival. Like this line
sounds incredibly ominous to me. I'd rather we just win and make sure they have a future.
Plus none of this even matters if the Accursed wins, increasing the chance of his final victory is literally the most important thing there is in the end. And the best way to increase that chance is to make sure Hunger makes it to High Cursebearer.
Remember that all Cursebearer requires the Accursed personal attention to get inducted, so the prospect of mitigation they offer has to be worth at least some of the Accursed attention, so it's not farfetched at all for Hunger, who is hardly an average Cursebearer to be worth some of Haeliel attention. In particular, increasing the chances of getting an additional High Cursebearer sure seems like it would be worth it...
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Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I don't agree with this at all. The argument proves too much; Hunger's characterization so far clearly includes various moral lines and trivial preferences other than pure maximization of Accursed victory. (I don't need to debate whether we should agree with your priority here in order to observe that this behavior is out of character.)
As a counterpoint, the Human Sphere now exists in a sort of paradisical sandbox where no harm can befall even the most disconnected citizen; it is hard for me to muster up very much sympathy for whether the average citizen lives in a hyper-advanced technological post-scarcity utopia vs. a hyper-advanced reality-warping post-scarcity utopia. I would predict that the marginal value of hedons is decreasing in overall utility: my level on the Infinite Serotonin Husk is too low to care about another ++Prosperity during the Epilogue tbh.
Unrelated to the above discussion, I think the ring advancement is cool as hell.
- Location
- Canada
I never denied that? I was giving an argument for why Imperishable Night wasn't the most moral option in my opinion, I have no idea how you came to the conclusion that this meant I thought that was the only thing Hunger cared about?
Hunger clearly cares about other things than maximizing the chances of Accursed victory, though he does want to eventually repay the Accursed and he needs to get to High Cursebearer if he wants to have any chance of accomplishing this or realizing his vengeance for that matter, with said vengeance being the reason he took on all these curses in the first place.
- Location
- Philippines
As I go through my half awake memories
Imagine how fucky wucky it would've been if this mega apo hit...lost against that 1% de activation chance from haeliel's handkerchief
And man if we take inheritance then we'll never get the chance to see Hunger omega simp for the a-boss again and that's just pretty sadge
Imagine how fucky wucky it would've been if this mega apo hit...lost against that 1% de activation chance from haeliel's handkerchief
And man if we take inheritance then we'll never get the chance to see Hunger omega simp for the a-boss again and that's just pretty sadge
- Location
- Pindorama
With such an early lead established, will this mark the return of the feared Devil's Advocacy!? I sort of miss it tbh.
- Location
- Peterborough, NH, USA
So, an Omake question. @Gabriel97 Any personal or metaphysical issues with incorporating your CYOA from back on 2161? Like how Aabcehmu remarked that outside powers would be stripped by Demons to avoid issues for their playground, for example. Greedy's an unserious take where this last installment is liable to be, well, the last installment because ISH 10+, nevermind 20, is impossible to really tell a story about, and I wanted to include all the compatible CYOAs as part of her last hurrah.
Also, general question fir the thread, I know Ordinal Purity is why Haeliel doesn't really do non-Ordinalism, but could she use an Attainment to do so, kind of like Hunger's Sword Praxis sort of is but also sort of isn't actual Imperial Praxis?
Also, general question fir the thread, I know Ordinal Purity is why Haeliel doesn't really do non-Ordinalism, but could she use an Attainment to do so, kind of like Hunger's Sword Praxis sort of is but also sort of isn't actual Imperial Praxis?
Man, this gets me some 'Nam flashbacks to Fairbright vote. "oh no this sounds ominous ahhhh daddy Rihaku save me from agency vampires aaaaaaaaaaaa".
Anyway, Night is downright straight forward. You get the most powerful effect in the term of raw numbers(besides Blood/Pierce Through I suppose) which also just works against plain everything. Maiden can't defeat this ability; if she had that kind of offense other two abilities wouldn't stand a chance either. So we get to sit back and train Praxis while FDS does its thing.
Obvious weakness of this strategy is that you are basically playing chicken with Apo, but that's kinda doable. As seen with Dien, there are fundamental limits to Apo's abilities to do buff people, and Night even offers additional Apo mitigation to combat this. In practice, Apo's best move would be to have Maiden go find something that could help smash through the siege, but at that point we had time to get our own strategies up and running. And even after Horizon War ends, you still have forever +2.5ISH to defense that also protects against Indenture Target getting destroyed, which is just a very strong effect.
Hell, we could use Fisher King if we wanted to. Maiden is not immune to Decimation so she is kinda forced to take it, otherwise we can spread more of our Night out if she retreats out of Decimator range.
So to conclude, there is nothing "ominous" about Night. It does what it says it does. It has completely straightforward plan of action.
Gabbie
That One Writer
- Location
- Italy
- Pronouns
- They/Them
If you bring in 'outside influences', the fabric of fate will literally do anything in its power to fuck you up. The longer you survive, the more difficult it'll become - it'll start at people being angrier towards you than they should be, leading to time retroactively rewriting itself to make sure you are booted out of the 'script.' i.e: kill you.
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One of the upsides of Night is that it kinda just works. The can is kicked down the road. We just stop Maiden and thats it, there is nothing else we need to do to make it work. Afterwards it is just a matter of executing good Praxis grind.
With other options you get the power, but you need to actually have a plan. How do you actually do stuff to beat Maiden - and this question is getting hard at this level of power, given how abstract everything is, to say nothing of our general lack of knowledge regarding Maiden's preferred combat style.
That is not to say that Night itself is without possibility of action. With all powerful redoubt, we can deploy a number of otherwise reckless strategies, depending on defensive power of Night to allow us safety, such as procing RoW for hit and run whenever it is off cooldown to do as much damage as we can get since Maiden can't punish us while we are sitting back inside our kingdom, or we could turn the Fisher King on to Decimate Maiden while she is incapable of fighting back.
Or perhaps we could pull Coldbriar - while Hunger himself can't really use temporal acceleration the same is not true for his subjects, so we could use massive powers at our disposal to create hyper-accelerated universes for Gisena, Adorie, Aobaru and Letrizia, make them super powerful and then combine with them using Closing the Fist. For example, Letrizia already discussed the possibility of obtaining transfinite Rank; create a world for her to grind in and ask Gisena to help her out, then CtF when she gets it so we can hit Maiden even harder. Maybe we could teach Aobaru Praxis, dump him in billion year realm and gain more Praxis that awy. Perhaps we could even use temporal deceleration on Hunger himself to weaken the next Apo proc while our allies grind, although one would assume that Curse can ignore that if she wanted to.
Another possibility is faking weakness - for example, we could let Maiden destroy layers of Night with ease to bait her deep inside our kingdom, and one she is in we pop Armor of Midnight, turn our Cloak protection all the way up and drop on her with Sanctuary, trapping the last vestige of light within the indomitable darkness.
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Actually, I think that I understand the optimal strategy Imperishable Night. To begin with, there is no need for Human Realm to remain stationary - using his power of Space Hunger can move it around, perhaps even ram it into stuff, although Maiden likely can contest this effect to a degree. This ability should grow with our power of Space, which itself will just keep getting stronger, and at some point we could let tendrils of night permeating countless realms while tide of daylight seeks to snuff them out. This would allow us more freedom to do stuff like finding Hunger Sated targets, or just plain increase the size of our kingdom.
Now, the obvious end goal of this strategy would be to engulf and contain Maiden and her daylight within our darkness. Once that we are containing her, and not vice versa, we are in position where we can attack her or Decimate her at our leisure, allowing us a great deal of strategic advantage. Now, this is pretty great on practical level, but it gets truly powerful once you consider the conceptual implications. Maiden is, well, a maiden and Hunger is a tyrant, and Evening Sky contains the power of Opalescent Tower, which is conceptually extremely well attuned to holding maidens captured by tyrants. In fact, it is this conceptual might that allows us to use the power of Archmage in the first place, with Adorie acting as captured maiden.
So once we manage to encircle Maiden within the dark, this powerful conceptual attunement should allow us to capture her within the Realm of Evening, placing Maiden within the Tyrant's Tower where she belongs. We could even consider permanently shedding outer layers of Cloak of Evening to have powerful inner ones serve as chains for Maiden, or something like that, and then just use her to obtain the power of Daylight, just as we are getting Archmage from Adorie right now.
Of course, following this chain of causality is something Apocrypha can use to her ends by deploying Heroes against us, but we have pretty strong abilities against that enemy type so eh.
Now, the obvious end goal of this strategy would be to engulf and contain Maiden and her daylight within our darkness. Once that we are containing her, and not vice versa, we are in position where we can attack her or Decimate her at our leisure, allowing us a great deal of strategic advantage. Now, this is pretty great on practical level, but it gets truly powerful once you consider the conceptual implications. Maiden is, well, a maiden and Hunger is a tyrant, and Evening Sky contains the power of Opalescent Tower, which is conceptually extremely well attuned to holding maidens captured by tyrants. In fact, it is this conceptual might that allows us to use the power of Archmage in the first place, with Adorie acting as captured maiden.
So once we manage to encircle Maiden within the dark, this powerful conceptual attunement should allow us to capture her within the Realm of Evening, placing Maiden within the Tyrant's Tower where she belongs. We could even consider permanently shedding outer layers of Cloak of Evening to have powerful inner ones serve as chains for Maiden, or something like that, and then just use her to obtain the power of Daylight, just as we are getting Archmage from Adorie right now.
Of course, following this chain of causality is something Apocrypha can use to her ends by deploying Heroes against us, but we have pretty strong abilities against that enemy type so eh.