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A Simple Transaction I

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Aabcehmu said:
As OctarineShrike mentioned, this build takes more sacrifices than is allowed. However, the idea of combing Questing, Key, and Blood to gain access to the Colossus's blood-codes is clever and should work, so you may want to find a way to initiate into Key or Blood in-world, rather than via Znel's offers.
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Ok, so, my primary dilemma is that I originally took Blood Scion primarily for the direct perception and duplication of Blood Codes, and I'm not sure I can copy the Colossus' Blood Code without it. So here's two variations of the build.

Scion Of The Colossus
-The Colossus
-Ring And Rod Magic (2 Earth)
-Blood Magic (1 Heaven and 2 Earth)
-Blood Scion (1 Empyrial)
-Key Magic (2 Heaven)
-Questing Magic (1 Empyrial, 2 Heaven, 3 Earth)
-Fear (+1 Heaven)
-Root (+1 Empyrial)

Im not going to bother calculating the stats for this one, it's entirely based on the goal of obtaining the Colossus' Blood Code immediately, assumes Blood Scion is necessary for doing so, and thus only had the choice of where to spend the last two Earth tokens, and figures Ring and Rod Magic takes the most advantage of the exotic materials available at Carrion.

Maximum Progression Mk. 2
-The Colossus
-Blank Mask (3 Earth)
-Blood Magic (1 Heaven and 2 Earth)
-Key Magic (2 Heaven)
-Questing Magic (1 Empyrial, 2 Heaven, 3 Earth)
-Memory (+1 Earth)
-Fear (+1 Heaven)

This, on the other hand, assumes Scion is not necessary to copy the Colossus' Blood Code. It is absolutely reliant on the resulting power from doing so to survive, but despite its fearlessness it should at least manage to focus on that goal first by dint of it being right there rather than needing to search anything out.
The sixth + to Progression is nice, but probably not worth the loss of everything Scion provides. What makes it my preferred build if it's valid, though, is actually putting more thought into the mechanics of the Blank Mask. The Progression the Mask gives is that it grows with my story. What kind of synergy does that offer to starting the story off with the completely unheard of act of copying the power of the largest living being to ever exist in this world?
And on that note, I swapped which Earthly Sacrifice I took. My initial thought was that losing my name had basically no consequences beyond the penalty to Charisma, but further consideration reveals that it may damage the story the Mask is bonding to. On the other hand, removing my memories may actually enhance it, as it properly consigns the backstory from another world the mask cannot draw on to irrelevance, and changes the opening of my story to "He appeared out of nowhere, and used a combination of three of the rarest magics in existence to copy the body of the most physically powerful creature to ever walk the world, excising the weakness that killed the original in the process." If that doesn't boost the Mask massively, I don't know what would.

...And screw it, I'm going to add my take on the World Tree build too.

The best way to buy time is combining power and obscurity
-[ ] The Invisible City
-Clay Magic (1 Heaven)
-Ring and Rod Magic (2 Earth)
-August Ring (1 Heaven)
-Father's Mask (2 Heaven)
-Tree Magic (3 Earth)
-Seed of the World Tree (1 Empyrial)
-Blood Magic (1 Heaven and 2 Earth)
-Blood Scion (1 Empyrial)
-Body (+1 Heaven)
-Root (+1 Empyrial)

No one comes to the Invisible City. I should be able to grow my tree in peace there. The sewd is unique even for Zneal, so I don't have to worry about someone else growing one first while I grow up, ghost magic should synergize with incorporating other worlds into my own body, and since Clay magic should let me body sculpt myself, my stats are utterly ludicrous even while the tree is growing. Once it is, both Blood Magic and Clay Magic should expand the ways I can twist if with Tree magic.

Let me actually see what my stats are.

12 Strength
14 Agility
15 Endurance
10 Intelligence
12 Wits
12 Wisdom
12 Charisma
9 Manipulation
10 Composure
12 Willpower
9 Luck
9 Protection

0 Heartlessness
3 Progression

And six more I can shift between Strength, Agility, Endurance, Intelligence, Wits, and Charisma, with up to two extra in each of them. Given that exponential growth makes each plus more valuable than the last, I should probably put them in the physical attributes for efficiency (14 16 17), but I'd personally rather have them in Intelligence, Wits, and Agility, at 12, 14, and 16, only shifting them to other stats when immediately relevant. Thia doesn't come close to Death Comes Like A Ghost, but it does provide enough power that if will almost certainly be able to keep it's World Tree safe until it can take full advantage of it.
And at that point? Well, it'll want to leave the world eventually given Root, but the Omens are a good way to prepare to do so.
 
Pittauro said:
You can strengthen the HS defenses outside of Hunger, but Hunger will STILL remain the first and last line of defense. and the kind of threats we expect will likely be ISH >2, which I'm not sure rank 11 armaments and a few boosts from templates will help THAT much against.
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The point is to make the Human Sphere not vulnerable to being instantly annihilated by Apocryphal procs.
 
TooSlow said:
The point is to make the Human Sphere not vulnerable to being instantly annihilated by Apocryphal procs.
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And my point is that any serious proc will require Hunger to actively act in its (the he) defense anyway.

In Rpg terms, it might be better to raise Hunger's chances of stopping/deflecting the proc in the first place, or weaken the proc itself, rather than trying to raise the ascendancy's heath points/defense.

We don't have a perfect solution, all different combinations of domains tackle the problem in different ways, and it's not clear which one is best


Curse mitigation

HS strengthening

Raw power and space control to quickly reach (and deal) with problems

...ruin and Gisena for versatility? I'm not completely sure about that one
 
Hunger has been getting stronger than the average Apocryphal proc over time... compare how he dispatched Mordred / Dien to something like Vanrier!
 
@beowolf Blood Scion won't be strictly necessary to obtain the Colossus's blood-codes, but it does definitely make it go way, way faster.
 
Zampano said:
As I recall you came into the thread pretty hot ready to talk about exponential growth; Aab's system is explicitly exponential!
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You're totally right! I hecked up my math and did something more akin to polynomial growth. I'm... not 100% sure why? "Brain bad sometimes," I guess.
Zampano said:
Ring Magic Initiation
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Do you mean Ring and Rod Magic Initiation? Or are you deliberately avoiding Rod Magic for some reason?
beowolf said:
No one comes to the Invisible City. I should be able to grow my tree in peace there.
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I think this is a dangerous assumption, given that you're taking both Father's Mask and Body Sacrifice. Remember, Body Sacrifice and Invisible City insertion means that you're going to be a native of the Invisible City, meaning your family will presumably also be there. While Father's Mask means that Znel is going to arrange things so that your family is wiped out so that you're "your father's last survivor." Since as you noted nobody comes to the Invisible City, the most likely way for that to happen is for you to have an enemy inside the city itself who wiped out your entire family. I wouldn't expect them to be a trivial threat, so if you can't overcome them immediately it's probably likely they'll basically force you to run for your life from the city. It's POSSIBLE that it could be an enemy who breached the city's defenses instead and you could potentially stick with your plan to live peacefully in the city until the World Tree is mature, but I suspect that fucking with you and upending all your plans to pursue a quiet life until you've got overwhelming power would be funnier/more interesting to Znel, so... yeah. Wouldn't count on that one, y'know?
 
Aabcehmu said:
@beowolf Blood Scion won't be strictly necessary to obtain the Colossus's blood-codes, but it does definitely make it go way, way faster.
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Well, given how Maximum Progression Mk 2 relies entirely on the power from those blood codes to survive having Questing Magic and Fearless...
Does Blood Magic alone take less than a week to finish the copy with Scion speeding it up to hours? Or would that plan simply not survive?
Fayhem said:
Since as you noted nobody comes to the Invisible City, the most likely way for that to happen is for you to have an enemy inside the city itself who wiped out your entire family. I wouldn't expect them to be a trivial threat, so if you can't overcome them immediately it's probably likely they'll basically force you to run for your life from the city.
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So, I have two responses to that, both of which are admittedly assumptions, but the second at least seems likely.

1. The entry for the Invisible City says that picking it as my starting destination suppresses the locals hostility towards me. It is entirely possible that Zneal will choose to disregard this since it assumes the hostility is because I'm an outsider, and this is internal politics, but there should be at least some protection there.
2. My father had Father's Mask, obviously. But my own stats still result in me being several hundred times as powerful as him in most areas. I may have to leave and come back once I've grown up myself in order to start growing the tree, but as long as the absence of hostility in general allow me to retaliate against whatever faction murdered my family without the rest of the citizenry uniting against me, I doubt there's any local faction that stands a chance.
 
beowolf said:
Well, given how Maximum Progression Mk 2 relies entirely on the power from those blood codes to survive having Questing Magic and Fearless...
Does Blood Magic alone take less than a week to finish the copy with Scion speeding it up to hours? Or would that plan simply not survive?

So, I have two responses to that, both of which are admittedly assumptions, but the second at least seems likely.

1. The entry for the Invisible City says that picking it as my starting destination suppresses the locals hostility towards me. It is entirely possible that Zneal will choose to disregard this since it assumes the hostility is because I'm an outsider, and this is internal politics, but there should be at least some protection there.
2. My father had Father's Mask, obviously. But my own stats still result in me being several hundred times as powerful as him in most areas. I may have to leave and come back once I've grown up myself in order to start growing the tree, but as long as the absence of hostility in general allow me to retaliate against whatever faction murdered my family without the rest of the citizenry uniting against me, I doubt there's any local faction that stands a chance.
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Blood Magic on its own would probably take a couple weeks, maybe a month, since you'd need to mine down to the Colossus's actual blood vessels, revive the blood, gather or make appropriate ritual vessels for the colossal blood, and perform a blood ritual with the blood. Doing that while also dealing with ancestral beasts could be rough, yeah.
 
beowolf said:
1. The entry for the Invisible City says that picking it as my starting destination suppresses the locals hostility towards me. It is entirely possible that Zneal will choose to disregard this since it assumes the hostility is because I'm an outsider, and this is internal politics, but there should be at least some protection there.
2. My father had Father's Mask, obviously. But my own stats still result in me being several hundred times as powerful as him in most areas. I may have to leave and come back once I've grown up myself in order to start growing the tree, but as long as the absence of hostility in general allow me to retaliate against whatever faction murdered my family without the rest of the citizenry uniting against me, I doubt there's any local faction that stands a chance.
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I think you've misinterpreted the entry for the Invisible City? The relevant portion goes:
Aabcehmu said:
If you choose this as your starting location, I will grant you immunity to the secret-keeping magic, as well as ensure that the locals don't respond violently to your trespass.
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Znel's only offering to make sure the locals don't react violently to you showing up (which is kind of a moot point anyway if you're reincarnating as a local there, since that means there's no "trespass" in the first place). She is NOT saying she will guarantee the city or the powers-that-be thereof won't turn against you in the future. If you're going to make a deal with a demon, you should remember to be very careful about reading the exact wording of the terms you're being offered. Assuming you'll get the most generous good-faith interpretation of the deal instead of the exact letter of it in a way that leaves plenty of room to screw with you for the lulz is a great way to get fucked over hard. In particular, I think you should pay attention to the fact that she's offering you power because she thinks it'll be interesting to watch that play out. If your plans aren't interesting enough to her, then you should expect the likelihood of fuckery that will throw said plans into chaos to rise sharply.
 
Aabcehmu said:
Blood Magic on its own would probably take a couple weeks, maybe a month, since you'd need to mine down to the Colossus's actual blood vessels, revive the blood, gather or make appropriate ritual vessels for the colossal blood, and perform a blood ritual with the blood. Doing that while also dealing with ancestral beasts could be rough, yeah.
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...Do any of Carrion's preexisting mines reach the blood vessels? ...I don't think it really matters, though. Unless the Colossus scares off anything beyond the weakest scavengers, the plan has no stat boosts beyond what Questing itself gives, and its 6 +s in Progession. Blood and Key Magic are both ritual based, Questing Magic is the source of the danger, and the Blank Mask explicitly does nothing until you feed it a story. Luck and Protection at 11 times human standard are useful, but unless the luck and the situation keeps the threats to the level of mundane predators...
And he's fearless. So, yeah, Maximum Progression Mk 2 is suicide, but Scion of the Colossus should still work.
 
I guess, yeah, there's a mine that goes into the Colossus's jugular vein, now that I think about it, so I guess it'd just be a matter of getting up to the shoulder with all of your ritual gear (or constructing the ritual vessels with locally sourced materials, which should be possible).

Still pretty risky, though.
 
Aabcehmu said:
I guess, yeah, there's a mine that goes into the Colossus's jugular vein, now that I think about it, so I guess it'd just be a matter of getting up to the shoulder with all of your ritual gear (or constructing the ritual vessels with locally sourced materials, which should be possible).

Still pretty risky, though.
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In the end, what it comes down to is if Luck 5 makes you lucky enough that for the Colossus to scare off the Ancestral Beasts nearby and buy you a day. I expect the answer is no.
 
Zampano said:
Respectfully, we aren't guaranteed an epilogue at all. A twelve-month Apocryphal proc deserves at least as careful preparation as Hunger exercised in the RoE before fighting Dien. That means that the opportunity to permanently set all our Stats to >2 ISH is something that we should think twice about before walking away from. Similarly on the Domain choice, Syncretic Foundationalism was going to triple the ISH effect of Seraph's Favor against anybody who closed the distance against Hunger. That advancement was possible within three days. Twelve months of advancement with Space + Law is enough to impose that effect with new "metaphysical rules" (aka a new ontology!)

I think we need to treat each consecutive Apocryphal proc as a mortal threat, particularly those with so much buildup time. RoW + Imprisoner seems like the combination that pays the most respect to the threat posed by our Crowning Curse.
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That's fair, I'm not actually all that confident about taking Unending over Imprisoner given the Hunger's affinity for the latter. Myth + The Best Defense to maximize his Ruin's also tempting.

Still, the Iron Fist seems shortsighted when it sacrifices nine-tenths of Hunger's present and future Praxis stamina. Raw power of any magnitude only offers a temporary advantage against the Apocryphal Curse, and continued progression in the slice of the Imperial Praxis Hunger has access to is perhaps his greatest strength in the long run. Alterations enacted by the Imprisoner's Refinement are effectively irrevocable, save by the intercession of entities far stronger than Hunger currently is; trading potential for power now isn't a good deal even before examining the implications of anti-mitigation.
Aabcehmu said:
The Demon of Dreams

INTRODUCTION​
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This is quite detailed, definitely a setting deserving of appreciation! Compared to other CYOAs posted here, having everything set in a single world makes for a more focused experience. You can get a sense of the geopolitics and visualize the central continent; the naming convention for the shores is especially evocative. The granularity of the stat system and inclusion of omens are also good incentives to explore in-depth. Anyway, there's an obvious Heartless build to be had by sacrificing yours and going all-in on Blood Magic. Questing Magic and Seed of the World Tree are also magnets for greedy builds, so I thought I'd try something slightly different:

Hesiesh's Kiln
Location: The Invisible City
Earthly: Body Sculpt (3), Tree Magic (3), Steel Magic (3), Living Steel Automaton (2)
Heavenly: Clay Magic (1), Fire Magic (1), Secret Flame (2),
Empyreal: Sacred Earth (1), Secret Flame (1)
Sacrifices: Name (+1 Earthly), Body (+1 Heavenly), Root (+1 Empyreal)

How best to describe the Kiln? Nameless, rootless, shapeless as the flame within. A ghost even by the standards of a spectral civilization. A thing of earth and fire, more djinn than man. A build that should not be, identity incinerated so that I might arise like a phoenix from the ashes in a new world. Speaking of birth, Body was originally sacrificed not just for the token, but because being born into the Invisible City grants access to Ghost Magic. It's also in the Summer Jungle, which makes tracking down the Black Sun more convenient, though I have a feeling gaining access to my purchases as I grew would've been unpleasant.

Hesiesh's Kiln has the hubris to aim for mastery of the Life-Giver's art. Not only shaping clay or seizing spiritual fire, but harnessing all the interactions that exist at the intersection of the two, beginning with but not limited to steel. Between all these branches of magic, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit to be plucked beyond the obvious benefits of taking Tree Magic in the jungle. Converting clay to flesh is convenient for healing, but it applies to arboreal life as well! Rapidly grow trees, transmute them into clay by siphoning off matter, then add it to my body of Sacred Earth to forge an enormous war-form.

With the right cultivars I can literally grow steel for my experiments and create wood with maximized flammability; Secret Flame's both the source of the build's name and where the fun starts. Ordinary fire mages have problems with sustainability and a constant need to consume, but the Black Sun obviates these issues. After optimizing my body for containment, the Kiln can continually funnel fuel into the fires within. Power can be banked in perpetuity, held in reserve until - like the eponymous Immaculate Dragon - it's time to unleash it. The ensuing volcanic eruption should provide substantial burst, amplifying the build's already-absurd attributes.

Naturally, there are no end of synergies to test. Steel Magic proves that life's fires can be imbued into other receptacles, but can the Secret Flame be used as a substitute? If so, what characteristics would the resulting entity have? The Living Steel Automaton'll serve as a forgehand and an attendant to look after affairs when I'm away, but I also intend to study and replicate the design. Is Sacred Earth to clay what Immortal Steel would be to living steel? Hesiesh has so many questions for the Last Firstborn. The Life-Giver's garden is hidden and guarded by a metaphorical angel with a flaming sword, but with Sacred Earth it can be accessed easily enough. All I have to do is die.

Of course resurrective immortality's a nice safety net in its own right, though imperfect if venturing beyond the Gates of Myth. But braving that final frontier is inevitable, if I live long enough. No home I make or shape I take, no product of my artifice or arboreal efforts, will yield lasting satisfaction. Even mysteries like the Black Sun and the One-Who-Waits (are they one and the same, as the Secret Flame's predatory patience seems to hint?) are temporary distractions. Adventure's call will always come again, and I'll uproot myself to answer it, until I die or depart this second world for some yet undiscovered country.

Fortunately, survivability's one of this build's strong suits! Second Skins being transferrable is promising, as presumably that means you can buy them in Squamosia. The Kiln should be able to eventually earn money as a body sculptor and three-seed tree mage not loyal to the Arbor, enough to keep some Skins in reserve for emergencies or attacks not covered by other defenses. If all else fails Hesiesh has the power to succeed as a mercenary, though not necessarily the charisma for self-promotion; despite their attractive stat bonuses, the August Ring and Father's Mask are avoided here because the Kiln can't afford to effectively lose tokens on death.

It's also not clear whether Body Sculpting is redundant or synergistic with Clay Magic. The potential Int gains are very valuable and the process is carried out with inhuman skill. But Clay Magic grants the means of transformation in the first place, so presumably some or all of those improvements could be replicated. This variant of the Kiln originally took both, but those three Earthly tokens now go toward Tree Magic. Not getting Ghost Magic is a shame, but there's no question that having Hesiesh's absurd Endurance functioning from day one is safer.

Edit: 904 words.
 
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Orm Embar said:
That's fair, I'm not actually all that confident about taking Unending over Imprisoner given the Hunger's affinity for the latter. Myth + The Best Defense to maximize his Ruin's also tempting.

Still, the Iron Fist seems shortsighted when it sacrifices nine-tenths of Hunger's present and future Praxis stamina. Raw power of any magnitude only offers a temporary advantage against the Apocryphal Curse, and continued progression in the slice of the Imperial Praxis Hunger has access to is perhaps his greatest strength in the long run. Alterations enacted by the Imprisoner's Refinement are effectively irrevocable, save by the intercession of entities far stronger than Hunger currently is; trading potential for power in the present isn't a good deal.

This is quite detailed, definitely a setting deserving of appreciation! Compared to other CYOAs posted here, having everything set in a single world makes for a more focused experience. You can get a sense of the geopolitics and visualize the central continent; the naming convention for the shores is especially evocative. The granularity of the stat system and inclusion of omens are also good incentives to explore in-depth. Anyway, there's an obvious Heartless build to be had by sacrificing yours and going all-in on Blood Magic. Questing Magic and Seed of the World Tree are also magnets for greedy builds, so I thought I'd try something slightly different:

Hesiesh's Kiln

Location: The Invisible City
Earthly: Body Sculpt (3), Steel Magic (3), Living Steel Automaton (2)
Heavenly: Clay Magic (1), Fire Magic (1), Secret Flame (2), Tree Magic (1)
Empyreal: Sacred Earth (1), Secret Flame (1)
Sacrifices: Name (+1 Earthly), Body (+1 Heavenly), Root (+1 Empyreal)

How best to describe the Kiln? Nameless, rootless, shapeless as the flame within. A ghost even by the standards of a spectral civilization. A thing of earth and fire, more djinn than man. A build that should not be, identity incinerated so that I might arise like a phoenix from the ashes in a new world. Speaking of birth, Body's being sacrificed not just for the token, but because being born into the Invisible City apparently grants access to Ghost Magic. It's also in the Summer Jungle, which makes tracking down the Black Sun more convenient, though I have a feeling gaining access to my purchases as I grow's going to be... unpleasant.

Hesiesh's Kiln has the hubris to aim for mastery the Life-Giver's art. Not only shaping clay or seizing spiritual fire, but harnessing all the interactions that exist at the intersection of the two, beginning with but not limited to steel. Between all these branches of magic, there's a lot of low-hanging fruit to be plucked beyond the obvious benefits of taking Tree Magic in the jungle. Converting clay to flesh is convenient for healing, but it applies to arboreal life as well! Rapidly grow trees, transmute them into clay by siphoning off matter, then add it to my body of Sacred Earth to forge an enormous war-form.

With the right cultivars I can literally grow steel for my experiments and create wood with maximized flammability; Secret Flame's both the source of the name and where the fun starts. Ordinary fire mages have problems with sustainability and a constant need to consume, but the Black Sun obviates these issues. After optimizing my body for containment, the Kiln can continually funnel fuel into the fires within. Power can be banked in perpetuity, held in reserve until - like the eponymous Immaculate Dragon - it's time to unleash it. The ensuing volcanic eruption should provide substantial burst, amplifying the build's already-absurd attributes.

Naturally, there are no end of synergies to test. Steel Magic proves that life's fires can be imbued into other receptacles, but can the Secret Flame be used as a substitute? If so, what characteristics would the resulting entity have? The Living Steel Automaton'll serve as a forgehand and an attendant to look after affairs when I'm away, but I also intend to study and replicate the design. Is Sacred Earth to clay what Immortal Steel would be to living steel? Hesiesh has so many questions for the Last Firstborn. The Life-Giver's garden is hidden and guarded by a metaphorical angel with a flaming sword, but with Sacred Earth it can be accessed easily enough. All I have to do is die.

Of course resurrective immortality's a nice safety net in its own right, though imperfect if venturing beyond the Gates of Myth. But braving that final frontier is inevitable, if I live long enough. No home I make or shape I take, no product of my artifice or arboreal efforts, will yield lasting satisfaction. Even mysteries like the Black Sun and the One-Who-Waits (are they one and the same, as the Secret Flame's predatory patience seems to hint?) are temporary distractions. Adventure's call will always come again, and I'll uproot myself to answer it, until I die or depart this second world for some yet undiscovered country.

Fortunately, survivability's one of this build's strong suits! Second Skins being transferrable is promising, as presumably that means you can buy them in Squamosia. The Kiln should be able to eventually earn money as a body sculptor and three-seed tree mage not loyal to the Arbor, enough to keep some Skins in reserve for emergencies or attacks not covered by other defenses. If all else fails Hesiesh has the power to succeed as a mercenary, though not necessarily the charisma for self-promotion; despite their attractive stat bonuses, the August Ring and Father's Mask are avoided here because the Kiln can't afford to effectively lose tokens on death.

It's also not clear whether Body Sculpting is redundant or synergistic with Clay Magic. The potential Int gains are very valuable and the process is carried out with inhuman skill. But Clay Magic grants the means of transformation in the first place, so presumably some or all of those improvements could be replicated. This variant of the Kiln takes both, though those three Earthly tokens could instead be used to purchase Tree Magic and avoid paying for it with the Body sacrifice. No Ghost Magic would be a shame, but there's no question that having Hesiesh's absurd Endurance functioning from day one is safer.
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This build is actually not quite valid! There's a limit of two sacrifices, in addition to only one per category.

Other than that, though, I'm genuinely overjoyed that the Demon of Dreams caught your interest! And you are absolutely correct that's there a universe of possibilities to explore with regards to experimenting with earth and fire and steel and other elements.
 
Aabcehmu said:
This build is actually not quite valid! There's a limit of two sacrifices, in addition to only one per category.

Other than that, though, I'm genuinely overjoyed that the Demon of Dreams caught your interest! And you are absolutely correct that's there a universe of possibilities to explore with regards to experimenting with earth and fire and steel and other elements.
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Missed that, thanks for the heads-up! Fortunately it's an easy fix, dropped the Body-Sculpt and the Body sacrifice, using those three Earthly tokens to pay for Tree Magic instead. I'll just have to try and do the customization myself.
 
And, yeah, there's a bit of redundancy between Body Sculpt and Clay Magic, though having your original sculpt to study will help you improve your sculpting skills.
 
TooSlow said:
What about the fact that Tree Of Liberty reinforces the Human Sphere against further attack and that it revives everyone who died to Dien as well as presumably Letrezia's father?
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1. Letrizia's dad can be handled by Gisena
2. I don't really care that much about the Republic. It was bad that Dien killed them, but Hunger isn't obligated to revive everybody that has ever died. On the narrative level, I don't want to spend our limited wordcount on the Republic.
3. I am skeptical that using Tree of Liberty to apply Sublime Fusion templates will meaningfully harden the Human Sphere against attack. Aobaru's criticism was that the "universe" was tearing itself apart as Hunger weaponize his Rank. Having slightly more robust biology will do nothing if Hunger accidentally punches the concept of Mass. in my estimation, the Human Sphere is better served by:
A. Dimensional fortifications like putting the Human Sphere in quarantine, or a battlefield tactic that brings Hunger to a sub dimension before launching his attacks, or simply reinforcing the fabric of reality in general.
B. Metaphysical enhancements like Adorie's Naturalism (boosted by metaphysical resonance with the Imprisoner).
C. Proactive countermeasures like hunting down this "wound" to make sure that the Apocryphal curse can't build up any momentum or cause any death spirals.

Tree of Liberty's strongest argument is SJUC, but I'm greedy for new blurbs. Its second strongest argument imo is upgrading Versch, but the Armaments are right at the limit of their usefulness - do we even want to set up independent entities that can overcome Hunger's wraith clones? I'm not sure that's a good idea. The third strongest argument (imo) is the continuous regeneration of his soul that makes him stronger.

I won't whine about Tree of Liberty winning, but I won't vote for it without being offered at least two vote markers that I do not currently own.
 
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It should be repeated that we have 49 years of ruling left which means 49 more pairs of domains to train. Whatever we don't choose here we can just get next year or the year after. There is no reason to not train every domain at least once. What we're deciding here isn't putting us on a set path. The only thing this effects is which domains we, the audience, get to see properly in action first.
 
Zampano said:
2. I don't really care that much about the Republic. It was bad that Dien killed them, but Hunger isn't obligated to revive everybody that has ever died. On the narrative level, I don't want to spend our limited wordcount on the Republic.
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and in any case any domain we don't take NOW we'll be taken AT SOME POINT in the next 6 years and 3 months, so we could likely do it then.

Zampano said:
3. I am skeptical that using Tree of Liberty to apply Sublime Fusion templates will meaningfully harden the Human Sphere against attack. Aobaru's criticism was that the "universe" was tearing itself apart as Hunger weaponize his Rank. Having slightly more robust biology will do nothing if Hunger accidentally punches the concept of Mass. in my estimation, the Human Sphere is better served by:
A. Dimensional fortifications like putting the Human Sphere in quarantine, or a battlefield tactic that brings Hunger to a sub dimension before launching his attacks, or simply reinforcing the fabric of reality in general.
B. Metaphysical enhancements like Adorie's Naturalism (boosted by metaphysical resonance with the Imprisoner).
C. Proactive countermeasures like hunting down this "wound" to make sure that the Apocryphal curse can't build up any momentum or cause any death spirals.
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or, obviously, more curse mitigation.

That always helps.

Zampano said:
do we even want to set up independent entities that can overcome Hunger's wraith clones?
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I imagine the clones would become stronger if we raised our rank even more, so they'll probably catch up pretty soon.

Still, yeah, I don't really care much about strengthening the Armaments, exactly for that reason. It might be enough to help against this specific proc, but unless we invest even MORE in them they'll be hopelessly left behind soon enough again, and I'm not convinced they'd help more than strengthening Hunger directly, or even Gisena (which, with 9 months +ROE time probably unlocked basically all the Graces we ever saw in the old Seram quest, at lvl 2, and possibly more, and probably persuaded a few foremost shards to share their knowledge with her as well)
Tyrant_Rayne said:
It should be repeated that we have 49 years of ruling left which means 49 more pairs of domains to train. Whatever we don't choose here we can just get next year or the year after. There is no reason to not train every domain at least once. What we're deciding here isn't putting us on a set path. The only thing this effects is which domains we, the audience, get to see properly in action first.
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[X] Refinement of Battle: The Best Defense
[X] The Tree of Liberty

Right, I've spent the weekend playing/running exalted and fantasizing about my build for Aab's Demon CYOA, so I'm quite satisfied with supervillainy at the moment. Swapping to nice guy ruin man.

I'm only mildly interested in resurrections. Mostly I want to finally get SJUC and put it behind us so it stops popping up after every single build discussion.
 
Fumbles said:
[X] Refinement of Battle: The Best Defense
[X] The Tree of Liberty

Right, I've spent the weekend playing/running exalted and fantasizing about my build for Aab's Demon CYOA, so I'm quite satisfied with supervillainy at the moment. Swapping to nice guy ruin man.

I'm only mildly interested in resurrections. Mostly I want to finally get SJUC and put it behind us so it stops popping up after every single build discussion.
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As a counterpoint, we could permanently deny Wolfy the catharsis of SJUC and at least double his salt generation per update. I don't even think we should qualify for SJUC anymore. Super Juggernaut maybe, but Hunger hardly spends any time at all these days being an undead.

syncretic foundationalism
is good
 
Well, Iron Fist seems like a bad idea without Unending Hunger, and not a terribly good one with it - our first duty is survival, true, but our second is Mitigation.
We promised to pay this guy back, you know?
Anyway, Always Forward is a pretty bad idea I think, in much the same way charging Procyon was. Valid in the short term, but having already committed to it to it seems like it's not a very good plan.

Anyway, I don't think vote dilution allows effective antivoting, so please know that I'd also be okay with Imprisoner True, Unending Hunger, or even Master of Myths.

[X] Refinement of Battle: The Best Defense
[X] The Tree of Liberty
 
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