A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Hunger already made a few good points. He'd touched upon both Dien running rampant and him being weakened not affecting his Curses. Shogunbaru didn't care.
You'll have to appeal to his emotion rather than reason this time around. Just stroke his ego pretty much.
We talked about that, basically idea was to make do until Haeliel proc and try and get her help there. If not, well, we already have one instant-death condition so what's another one to the pile.
The plan there was "Apocryphal wants things to be interesting, she won't bring them in until Hunger is not guaranteed to lose." The only thing that opening changes is how much credibility she needs to spend when we reach the point she would be bringing them in anyway.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
The Apocryphal would not and could not introduce the Hidden Ones into the situation. While I doubt it's beyond the Curse's power, it's certainly well beyond its remit. Even Seram or Mordred were pushing those limits, inducing a being on the highest levels of power to pay attention to a nascent Cursebearer would provoke unthinkable retaliation from the Accursed, assuming he or one of his agents didn't resolve that situation without Hunger being involved at all.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
How about promising Shogunbaru to make him our successor plus pursue our Geas Task as fast as we can with no slacking for time, in exchange for helping us kill Dien? 50 years of waiting for nearly uncontested rule afterwards should be OK for him, especially since Chains of Fate enemy still exists.
Apocryphal procs aren't 'rocks fall everyone dies'.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Might be a bit heartless, but we can also threaten to remove our protections against Dien from Aeira. Can probably force Aobaru vs Dien with that, and I don't really care about Aeira. She signed up to fight knowing the risk to her life etc, might be time to use said life for tactical considerations.
LOL, Uncle Shogun's got our number bad. The harder we throw grown-up masculine authority at the boy, the more it inflames his teenaged rebellion. Throw reason at it and he counters with emotion, throw force at it and he counters with cunning. He's not our enemy, but he's willing to be if the alternative's being our pet.
Putting in work to try and paint it as him misunderstanding us is laughable. We're not complicated people, and neither is Hunger. The kid knows exactly what he's doing, and what the stakes are, and why he's got to do this if he's ever going to earn an ounce of respect.
I admire his sincere effort to not betray Hunger. I approve of his gambit to retain relevance in the face of Progression. And yes, I do respect his willingness to oppose a godlike Tyrant in the name of that so-easily dismissed ideal of meaning beyond sheer unbridled dominance.
[X] Full Speed Ahead
ChenQuest must be having a hell of a time right now.
Putting in work to try and paint it as him misunderstanding us is laughable. We're not complicated people, and neither is Hunger. The kid knows exactly what he's doing, and what the stakes are, and why he's got to do this if he's ever going to earn an ounce of respect.
I admire his sincere effort to not betray Hunger. I approve of his gambit to retain relevance in the face of Progression. And yes, I do respect his willingness to oppose a godlike Tyrant in the name of that so-easily dismissed ideal of meaning beyond sheer unbridled dominance.
[X] Full Speed Ahead
ChenQuest must be having a hell of a time right now.
- Location
- 1
a hypothetical list of the voting options ChenQuest might be offered:
[ ] Super Betrayal! - Lord Hunger is very powerful. If you don't kill him now, that'll end the quest here as your decisions become irrelevant! besides, this is basically Imperia all over again- if you keep letting him decide things for you, the voters become irrelevant. Your Nimbus should be safe for humanity, and immunize them against Dien besides- there's no more need for that 'Cursebearer' with his 'Ability to render you irrelevant' to keep plodding around. Of course, the Shogun is a threat, an outside influence, but you can handle that later if need be. If you choose this option, Aobaru will attack Hunger with intent to kill, using Vigorflame to burn a hole in his Armor of Ruin, then his health multipliers, then his health, Leaving his combat capabilities untouched until his death. On the other hand, Aobaru remains conflicted...
*Hunger hasn't done that much against Aobaru intentionally... --Mental Stability.
*The Apocryphal Curse wants you to pick this. Gain 18 Arete if you do, and 10 more if you succeed!
*If you pull this off right, you can let Hunger kill Dien, then finish him off. no mess, no fuss! then again, the wrong Advancement from Hunger could spell doom...
*remember the chains of fate enemy? this might leave you vulnerable to it.
*Shogun says: A Good choice, betraying no weakness and giving up no advantage.
[ ] Walmart Betrayal. - Lord Hunger is powerful, but if you just weaken him below you, continued Vigorflame annihilation can keep him there forever! You don't really want to kill your mentor, do you? And if you Are mistaken like he believes, you can always change your mind later. Surely your newfound Vigorfueled might can restore him swiftly enough to avoid disaster... but that's probably irrelevant, you couldn't possibly be wrong! Anyway, if you choose this option, Aobaru will carefully watch the Surgeon and Hungers fight, burning their powers away whenever one gains the upper hand, until he can snuff out the Surgeon and leave Hunger beneath him. Maybe if you burn away what you can from the Doom of the Tyrant, you can get him to accept a subordinate position? You don't really know why Gisena didn't Nullify it any.
*Doesn't kill your mentor, but it is still a betrayal... -Mental Stability.
*The Apocryphal Curse is ok with this, too. Gain 10 Arete if you try, and 6 more if you succeed!
*Could be a problem with a mid-battle powerup, or a victory powerup in Hungers case...
*There might be a reason the Doom of the Tyrant wasn't mitigated sooner...
*Safer in the event of Chains of Fate waiting in the wings.
*Shogun says: stinks of indecision. what are you, a chosen hero or a chosen toy?
-[ ] Extra Indecision [2 Arete] - Carefully avoid fully destroying any of Hungers Advancements, leaving behind enough for you to rekindle later more easily, if you change your mind.
*Kills your mentor even less then walmart. No Mental Stability loss.
*The Apocryphal Curse kinda doesn't like this, hence the Arete Cost.
*choosing this means Aobaru is uncertain about even weakening his mentor. he may be more vulnerable to argument or impassioned pleas.
*Almost completely risk-free for the Chains of Fate enemy.
*Shogun refuses to even look at this option. This is War, boy!
*look at that option color. That's the lamest shade of yellow you've ever seen. It's like Aobaru was getting ready to fulfill his destiny and gave up halfway through. Could you stand to look at an artist ever again if you chose this option? eugh.
[ ] Parlay - Give Hunger more time to convince you before trying anything. Even Aobaru, in the grip of power, knows this is probably the Apocryphal Curse at work, but the activation is likely complete; give your head some time to clear, and Hunger time to remake his points.
*Benefits and costs depend on ultimate decision.
*The Shogun will attempt to convince Aobaru Hunger is wrong instead of focusing on combat.
*If Aobaru Does decide to betray Hunger, no mental stability loss; he will be convinced it was the right decision.
*The Apocryphal Curse will still give you Arete for any betrayal which occurs, but 4 less.
*Safe in the event of the Chains of Fate enemy.
*Shogun says: Parlay is just an opportunity for a sneak-attack!
[ ] Priorities - On second thought Dien is the bigger threat. There really isn't much of a comparison between Dien 'Heroism means war crimes' Bravo and Lord 'I'll resurrect you in like, 10 minutes' Hunger. Kill Dien before he pulls a 10-stage boss fight out of his arse, and hope that Hunger will still be weakened enough in the end to finish him off.
*The Apocryphal Curse doesn't like this; it won't give you any more Arete.
*the second-least amount of Hunger-killing possible! +Mental Stability.
*Hunger will probably be able to defeat you afterwards, ending the quest.
*Probably safe from the Chains of Fate. And if it isn't, well, not your problem.
*Dien is no hero! this affront to heroism itself cannot stand, with the bearer of Vigorflame simply occupied by lesser affairs!
*Shogun Says: Hunger is definitely the bigger threat, Dien is just an upstart shard.
[ ] Double Betrayal [7 Arete] - Ah, the Apocryphal Curse. It thinks to use you; More the fool it! For the essence of Heroism draws from the Seraph of the same, and she is above Hunger all the more so than Hunger surpassed you, yet does not balk at her power even without the Doom of Tyranny that renders Hungers reasoning suspect. Beneath such a shining example, what could you do but your uttermost? Not Moments past the conclusion of the Apocryphal Curses weak attempts to turn Chosen Hero against Cursebearer Once-Hero, forcibly remove the Shoguns influence from Aobarus mind, and explain to Hunger that this was but an act; Join forces again to defeat Dien Bravo, having turned Hungers Curse into a blessing, and then stand stalwart against the Apocryphals further depredations.
*Haeliel will be proud of Aobaru. Probably. Has Aobaru even met her before? It will be another 2 years before he does next, in any case.
*Hunger will Definitely be proud of Aobaru, and if he doesn't act on or show it, then he must be possessed by a swarm of disunited and dubiously sane creatures from another world with only a partial grasp on reality.
*++Mental Stability. Having cleanly defeated the Apocryphal Curse before its proc could even manifest, something even Hunger would struggle with, Aobaru will stop having delusions of inadequacy.
*The Apocryphal Curse doesn't like this one bit, but it's out of power. Still, it's going to hold a grudge! +100% power to the first Apocryphal Proc Aobaru tanks for Hunger!
*acting on a grudge will tire the twice-fragmented Apocryphal Curse out. -40% Apocryphal Credibility accumulation for 3 months after that, sidereal.
*Adhering to actual heroism might let Aobaru progress Vigorflame better later.
*Hunger will be ascendant after this, but will leave Aobaru to handle his allocated Apocryphal Procs on his own; The quest will continue, with 3 lifelines in the form of Hunger resurrecting Aobaru should he fall.
*Owing to the circumstances, going into more than 1 Arete Debt here will not kill Aobaru, instead allowing the Apocryphal Curse to control his decision; Since it will choose one of the options it likes, the resulting Arete will pay for the debt. You do not currently have 6 Arete.
1255 Words, and a looot of time spent looking up colors.
(edit was fixing a typo)
(much-delayed edit switched shogun for surgeon.)
[ ] Super Betrayal! - Lord Hunger is very powerful. If you don't kill him now, that'll end the quest here as your decisions become irrelevant! besides, this is basically Imperia all over again- if you keep letting him decide things for you, the voters become irrelevant. Your Nimbus should be safe for humanity, and immunize them against Dien besides- there's no more need for that 'Cursebearer' with his 'Ability to render you irrelevant' to keep plodding around. Of course, the Shogun is a threat, an outside influence, but you can handle that later if need be. If you choose this option, Aobaru will attack Hunger with intent to kill, using Vigorflame to burn a hole in his Armor of Ruin, then his health multipliers, then his health, Leaving his combat capabilities untouched until his death. On the other hand, Aobaru remains conflicted...
*Hunger hasn't done that much against Aobaru intentionally... --Mental Stability.
*The Apocryphal Curse wants you to pick this. Gain 18 Arete if you do, and 10 more if you succeed!
*If you pull this off right, you can let Hunger kill Dien, then finish him off. no mess, no fuss! then again, the wrong Advancement from Hunger could spell doom...
*remember the chains of fate enemy? this might leave you vulnerable to it.
*Shogun says: A Good choice, betraying no weakness and giving up no advantage.
[ ] Walmart Betrayal. - Lord Hunger is powerful, but if you just weaken him below you, continued Vigorflame annihilation can keep him there forever! You don't really want to kill your mentor, do you? And if you Are mistaken like he believes, you can always change your mind later. Surely your newfound Vigorfueled might can restore him swiftly enough to avoid disaster... but that's probably irrelevant, you couldn't possibly be wrong! Anyway, if you choose this option, Aobaru will carefully watch the Surgeon and Hungers fight, burning their powers away whenever one gains the upper hand, until he can snuff out the Surgeon and leave Hunger beneath him. Maybe if you burn away what you can from the Doom of the Tyrant, you can get him to accept a subordinate position? You don't really know why Gisena didn't Nullify it any.
*Doesn't kill your mentor, but it is still a betrayal... -Mental Stability.
*The Apocryphal Curse is ok with this, too. Gain 10 Arete if you try, and 6 more if you succeed!
*Could be a problem with a mid-battle powerup, or a victory powerup in Hungers case...
*There might be a reason the Doom of the Tyrant wasn't mitigated sooner...
*Safer in the event of Chains of Fate waiting in the wings.
*Shogun says: stinks of indecision. what are you, a chosen hero or a chosen toy?
-[ ] Extra Indecision [2 Arete] - Carefully avoid fully destroying any of Hungers Advancements, leaving behind enough for you to rekindle later more easily, if you change your mind.
*Kills your mentor even less then walmart. No Mental Stability loss.
*The Apocryphal Curse kinda doesn't like this, hence the Arete Cost.
*choosing this means Aobaru is uncertain about even weakening his mentor. he may be more vulnerable to argument or impassioned pleas.
*Almost completely risk-free for the Chains of Fate enemy.
*Shogun refuses to even look at this option. This is War, boy!
*look at that option color. That's the lamest shade of yellow you've ever seen. It's like Aobaru was getting ready to fulfill his destiny and gave up halfway through. Could you stand to look at an artist ever again if you chose this option? eugh.
[ ] Parlay - Give Hunger more time to convince you before trying anything. Even Aobaru, in the grip of power, knows this is probably the Apocryphal Curse at work, but the activation is likely complete; give your head some time to clear, and Hunger time to remake his points.
*Benefits and costs depend on ultimate decision.
*The Shogun will attempt to convince Aobaru Hunger is wrong instead of focusing on combat.
*If Aobaru Does decide to betray Hunger, no mental stability loss; he will be convinced it was the right decision.
*The Apocryphal Curse will still give you Arete for any betrayal which occurs, but 4 less.
*Safe in the event of the Chains of Fate enemy.
*Shogun says: Parlay is just an opportunity for a sneak-attack!
[ ] Priorities - On second thought Dien is the bigger threat. There really isn't much of a comparison between Dien 'Heroism means war crimes' Bravo and Lord 'I'll resurrect you in like, 10 minutes' Hunger. Kill Dien before he pulls a 10-stage boss fight out of his arse, and hope that Hunger will still be weakened enough in the end to finish him off.
*The Apocryphal Curse doesn't like this; it won't give you any more Arete.
*the second-least amount of Hunger-killing possible! +Mental Stability.
*Hunger will probably be able to defeat you afterwards, ending the quest.
*Probably safe from the Chains of Fate. And if it isn't, well, not your problem.
*Dien is no hero! this affront to heroism itself cannot stand, with the bearer of Vigorflame simply occupied by lesser affairs!
*Shogun Says: Hunger is definitely the bigger threat, Dien is just an upstart shard.
[ ] Double Betrayal [7 Arete] - Ah, the Apocryphal Curse. It thinks to use you; More the fool it! For the essence of Heroism draws from the Seraph of the same, and she is above Hunger all the more so than Hunger surpassed you, yet does not balk at her power even without the Doom of Tyranny that renders Hungers reasoning suspect. Beneath such a shining example, what could you do but your uttermost? Not Moments past the conclusion of the Apocryphal Curses weak attempts to turn Chosen Hero against Cursebearer Once-Hero, forcibly remove the Shoguns influence from Aobarus mind, and explain to Hunger that this was but an act; Join forces again to defeat Dien Bravo, having turned Hungers Curse into a blessing, and then stand stalwart against the Apocryphals further depredations.
*Haeliel will be proud of Aobaru. Probably. Has Aobaru even met her before? It will be another 2 years before he does next, in any case.
*Hunger will Definitely be proud of Aobaru, and if he doesn't act on or show it, then he must be possessed by a swarm of disunited and dubiously sane creatures from another world with only a partial grasp on reality.
*++Mental Stability. Having cleanly defeated the Apocryphal Curse before its proc could even manifest, something even Hunger would struggle with, Aobaru will stop having delusions of inadequacy.
*The Apocryphal Curse doesn't like this one bit, but it's out of power. Still, it's going to hold a grudge! +100% power to the first Apocryphal Proc Aobaru tanks for Hunger!
*acting on a grudge will tire the twice-fragmented Apocryphal Curse out. -40% Apocryphal Credibility accumulation for 3 months after that, sidereal.
*Adhering to actual heroism might let Aobaru progress Vigorflame better later.
*Hunger will be ascendant after this, but will leave Aobaru to handle his allocated Apocryphal Procs on his own; The quest will continue, with 3 lifelines in the form of Hunger resurrecting Aobaru should he fall.
*Owing to the circumstances, going into more than 1 Arete Debt here will not kill Aobaru, instead allowing the Apocryphal Curse to control his decision; Since it will choose one of the options it likes, the resulting Arete will pay for the debt. You do not currently have 6 Arete.
1255 Words, and a looot of time spent looking up colors.
(edit was fixing a typo)
(much-delayed edit switched shogun for surgeon.)
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- Location
- 1
attempted simulation of Altobaru!Rihaku's Devils Advocacy:
A lot of support for high-cost option! however, it would be wise to remember that Double Betrayal has its own flaws- If you don't generate enough Arete, it's an automatic Super Betrayal, with seven less Arete from the Apocryphal Curse! You might be better served picking one of the compromise options, like Priorities or Extra Indecision instead, if you really want to help Hunger...
A lot of support for high-cost option! however, it would be wise to remember that Double Betrayal has its own flaws- If you don't generate enough Arete, it's an automatic Super Betrayal, with seven less Arete from the Apocryphal Curse! You might be better served picking one of the compromise options, like Priorities or Extra Indecision instead, if you really want to help Hunger...
- Location
- 1
I was imagining it as a mostly different set of people, and probably smaller in number, both to match the smaller power and potential of Aobaru, and how he doesn't really grow independantly. also, without any Nameless Patreons. So from their context, the Apocryphal Curse's offer of up to 28 Arete would be a completely ridiculous opportunity, only counterbalanced by the upcoming end of quest, betraying everything Aobaru had been moving towards, and the not-so-stellar success rate, and the 7 Arete cost would be a difficult, but potentially attainable hurdle.
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Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
[-] I'm in this post and I don't like it
- Location
- 1
<Althaku> Well, in the case of Double Betrayal, the 200% Apocryphal Proc will be happening some time in the future- probably at least a month, and possibly more! By then, Hunger will have outscaled Aobaru again, especially with you 7 Arete down, so the three Hunger lifelines will genuinely be get-out-of-jail-free cards. Double Betrayal is a good option if you can get it, as you would expect from 7 Arete- The trouble comes if you can't quite afford it when the vote rolls around!</Althaku>
Post Scriptum: I guess the Althaku I'm portraying is more active in responding to things than real Rihaku. Maybe having a smaller quest makes answering individual voters questions more appealing. and maybe it's just a product of me... y'know... not being Rihaku.
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
If you're mentioning Rattata specifically, you're going to bring to mind exploits. For a genuine 'no reasonable chance' matchup, try Pidgey. (Zubat is going to sound like you're meming.)
Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Aurora, CO
- Pronouns
- Any/All
[X] Full Speed Ahead
I'm flipping back to FSA because, having thought about it more, I think that as time passes, in addition to Aobaru's might increasing, I think he will be thinking about the situation more, and that his inclination over time will trend towards realizing what he's doing is dumb.
I'm flipping back to FSA because, having thought about it more, I think that as time passes, in addition to Aobaru's might increasing, I think he will be thinking about the situation more, and that his inclination over time will trend towards realizing what he's doing is dumb.
[X] Full Speed Ahead
True. We should say a witty one liner before going after Dien like "Grow up Aobaru, people are dying bc of your pride"
True. We should say a witty one liner before going after Dien like "Grow up Aobaru, people are dying bc of your pride"
