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I counted the votes from the tally that was in this post of the QM...
Yeah, seems that way.

Hmm, hope this is the right decision


@mouli

otl an entire soviet army retreated into east prussia after they were cut of by the poles and many more soviet soldiers fleed to germany territory. Are we going to get an action or something of the sort in the next turn what to do with 50 ish thousand exhausted from supplies and suppurt cut off soviet soldiers in königsberg? Plus OTL german volunteer groups formed from the local german ethnicity helped repel the soviets from latvia. Otl germany tried to use this to install a german ruled puppet state, throwing out every little bit of goodwill prior actions took, before the puppet state in turn was toppled by the estonians and fins. Are we going to get a decision in that direction that allows us to avoid the otl folly of the germans there? It would be extremely usefull to establish early cooperation with the baltic

[X] Plan: Everyone Goes to Court!
 
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Hmm, hope this is the right decision
Not gonna lie, the Poles are annoying neighbors to have, more so than the Soviets imo. Let's not forget what's happened in Silesia, and the fact they'll absolutely want to punish us for doing it. They already hated us before, I can only imagine how pissed they are with the Germans right now.

Considering they're not a weak puppet state, we're going to have to deal with that. Something to keep in mind, I just hope we don't suddenly get a LoN demand to hand over land inhabited by Poles for their protection and self-determination... our government would likely collapse if that happened and we don't have the means to refuse it.
There are rumors that the army high command also intend to use them as saboteurs and strike units to sow havoc in Silesia, Poland and other disputed territories, and they have already been used to suppress uprisings in Silesia.
Stated Aim: Far-right paramilitary organization formed to combat 'Communist' and Polish subversion of Germany and to act in defense of the German right.
So yeah... having a strong Poland as a neighbor will probably be a pain to deal with. I really hope people were right when considering the benefits having them at our borders rather than the commies would give us. I unfortunately just don't see them as nothing beyond a hostile buffer to Soviet expansion. I can already see how our poor diplomat in Warsaw is feeling, we'll need to give him a raise!
 
Not gonna lie, the Poles are annoying neighbors to have, more so than the Soviets imo. Let's not forget what's happened in Silesia, and the fact they'll absolutely want to punish us for doing it. They already hated us before, I can only imagine how pissed they are with the Germans right now.
yeah, poland´s survival as it is is deeply unfortunate, though they are going to be militarily wrecked by the war against the soviets, plus, we did help them, so they won´t be quite as pissed.

And given that Mister Worldwide Revolution is going to be in charge of the soviet union, any peace treaty between poland and the soviets is going to be a temporary truce at most. I give poland 5 to 10 years at most till the soviets take another swing against it
 
[X] Plan: Everyone Goes to Court!
We've been pissing on the Zentrum for almost the entire Civil War. I desperately want to throw them a bone.
 
we did help them, so they won´t be quite as pissed.
I think the killing of Polish minorities in Silesia might have superseded that, let's hope for the best. I'm just not very confident they won't try to pull something spiteful because of it, they have valid reasons to be hostile towards Germany. And I can see the Entente taking a piss at us since there's no reason to be lenient towards us considering there's no red menace.

Ironically the civil war was very good for our foreign relations, now that it's over, we unfortunately don't have the leeway we had I think. We'll have to work twice as hard in regards to diplomacy with the current situation and will need to thread carefully.
We've been pissing on the Zentrum for almost the entire Civil War. I desperately want to throw them a bone.
I wouldn't go so far to say that, we did give them the officer's academy and our main point of contention was aid distribution, which is not as important as it was back then. We also managed to do a good job in pushing back against the Parliamentary challenge, so hopefully that calmed them down a bit. I guess we can't know their exact mood for now, but considering we do have thing in common we can work towards, we'll be able to smooth over any wrinkles this could cause in our relationship in my opinion.
 
[X] Plan: Everyone Goes to Court!

Annoy the military now, while we are safe doing so, and hash out a deal later. They need to accept the fact that if they want to upend the republic we will strike back.
 
Adhoc vote count started by armentho on Mar 15, 2021 at 10:57 AM, finished with 64 posts and 35 votes.

  • [X] Plan: Everyone Goes to Court!
    -[X]Fair: Put them on trial, and make it a fair trial for treason. This will nail most of them and anger the army, provided the trials go well. If the trials go poorly, the officers get acquitted anyways and have used the trials as a platform for agitation. At the same time, it will show that we are ready and willing to call the army to account – on the tail end of the war, we won't have a coup from this. But it will mean that we have to placate the army later.
    -[X]Public Trials: Put the few commanders that we have on trial, and make sure that it's a fair one. We have an ironclad treason case in any event, and the trial of the commanders allow us to drive home the victory of the republic over the insurrection – and will also burnish our credentials on the center and the center-right sides of the aisle. The Zentrum wants to see them in court, and we can oblige them – at the cost of leaving those experienced agitators a place to spread their ideas.
    [X] Plan: Long live the Republic! Long live the Chancellor!
    -[X]Fair: Put them on trial, and make it a fair trial for treason. This will nail most of them and anger the army, provided the trials go well. If the trials go poorly, the officers get acquitted anyways and have used the trials as a platform for agitation. At the same time, it will show that we are ready and willing to call the army to account – on the tail end of the war, we won't have a coup from this. But it will mean that we have to placate the army later.
    -[X]Gericht: Let the army try the KPD high commanders, since the ones that we captured were former soldiers or serving officers who flipped with the 6th Infantry Division. This will almost certainly mean that the high command will be shot, and it will be done quietly, but there will be no martyrs to the revolution made here. The Zentrum will not like it much and will view it as capitulating to the army and the far-right, though, and they have a point. We don't want the army running courts, but can we avoid that in this case?
 
Is it just me or do the votes for each plan come through in waves by timezone?
That's usually how things go, which is why moratoriums are useful. Most people in SV are from the US, but it is a big country with different timezones. There are also people like me, who live in Eurasia which can be sucky when most of thread engagement happens when I'm supposed to be sleeping. Them's the breaks
 
That's usually how things go, which is why moratoriums are useful. Most people in SV are from the US, but it is a big country with different timezones. There are also people like me, who live in Eurasia which can be sucky when most of thread engagement happens when I'm supposed to be sleeping. Them's the breaks
Yes, but what I mean is, it's interesting how different timezones seem to prefer different plans.
 
Alright, this document is a bastard to read and I'm 99% sure there's no explicit definition of German states by name in it after skimming it, but my German is poor and the font is terrible. The Weimar Constitution thus requires some work, since half of the state of Prussia is under military rule and the state of Prussia dominates the Republic by dint of sheer size.
Source is this: https://www.lwl.org/westfaelische-geschichte/que/normal/que843.pdf
If anyone else can see a definition of 'state' and how to amend/change/redraw those bounds, please let me know.
 
Yes, but what I mean is, it's interesting how different timezones seem to prefer different plans.

Cultural bias?

I come from a country with paramilitaries anf leftist guerillas warfare since its foundation,never experienced personal tragedy

But definetly meet my fair share of victims

So cutting that shit as soon a possible is a priority to me

Other people from other nations migth preffer the "negotiate with the military" aproach
 
Alright, this document is a bastard to read and I'm 99% sure there's no explicit definition of German states by name in it after skimming it, but my German is poor and the font is terrible. The Weimar Constitution thus requires some work, since half of the state of Prussia is under military rule and the state of Prussia dominates the Republic by dint of sheer size.
Source is this: https://www.lwl.org/westfaelische-geschichte/que/normal/que843.pdf
If anyone else can see a definition of 'state' and how to amend/change/redraw those bounds, please let me know.
Oh joy, Fraktur. Eh. Let's see what we can find. Still better than Sütterlin.
 
Yes, but what I mean is, it's interesting how different timezones seem to prefer different plans.
Usually when people are swayed the first time to vote for a plan, they stick to it and generally don't pay attention to others or just pay less mind to it. So each time zone will pay attention to different arguments as they are presented. That's my theory at least.
 
So cutting that shit as soon a possible is a priority to me

Other people from other nations migth preffer the "negotiate with the military" aproach
The option that curtails the leftists from doing harm the most is the military one though. We're not negotiating with them over convictions, but rather handing them over knowing they'll inevitably receive harsher penalties than otherwise and have a lesser chance of getting away with it. Besides not making a spectacle and giving them a podium to agitate. If you want to proceed "cutting off that shit", I think Gericht is what you're looking for!
 
Alright, this document is a bastard to read and I'm 99% sure there's no explicit definition of German states by name in it after skimming it, but my German is poor and the font is terrible.
Oh hey, look what I found! An English translation of the 1919 Weimar Constitution, courtesy of Cornell Law School
Now we can all join our QM in this exploration of the 1919 Weimar Constitution!

Yes, I am a nerd. Why do you ask?
:p
 
Right, so (I am not a professional translator, and stuff may be lost):
Preamble:
The German People (n.b. "Volk" also implies other things, and was later corrupted by the nazis), united in its tribes and animated by the will to renew and fortify its Reich (n.b. "Reich" has multiple meanings, like "dominion", "area ruled over" or "the adminstrative apparatus of the Reich") in Freedom and Justice, to serve inwards and external peace and to promote societal progress, has given itself the following constitution:
First Part
Structure and tasks of the Reich
First paragraph
Reich and Länder
(n.b. "Länder" means "constituent countries/parts", and is familar to any german)
Article 1​
The German Reich is a Republic (n.b. no jokes please)
The power of state comes from the Volk
Article 2​
The area of the Reich is composed of the area of the german Länder. Other areas can join the Reich by a law, if their inhabitants wish it by their right of self-determination.
Article 3
Stuff about the flag
Article 4​
The commonly accepted rules of the law of nations are binding parts of the law of the Reich.
Articles 5-12
Who does what, defines which things are done by federal and which parts are done by Länder
Article 13​
Reich law supercedes Länder law.
If there are doubts or differences of opinion if a something is compatible, the go to the highest court in the Reich
(...)
Article 17​
Every Land must have a free-state constitution. The parliament must be elected in common, equal, direct and secret (n.b. thats a legalistic formula for universal elections, don't know if got all connotations) by all reich-german men and women by the priciples of proportional representation. The government of the Land requires the trust of its parliament. (and then comes some stuff for the town council elections)
Article 18​
The division of the Reich into Länder shall serve the economical and cultural maximum performance while possibly considering the will of the people. A change in the area of Länder and the creation of new Länders within the Reich are done by a constitution changing law of the Reich.
If the directly affected Länder agree, only a simple Reich law is needed.
A simple Reich law is further sufficient in case one of the Länder affected does not agree, but the area change or new creation is demanded by the will of the populace or required by overwhelming interest of the Reich itself.
The will of the populace is to be determined by vote. The vote is ordered by the reich government, if at least one third of the voting people of the dividing country requests it. (It then goes into detail about the qorums which is requried for what pieces of land)

Right. Skipping ahead to "constitution changing reich law", since that is the interesting bit. Although article 22 contains a provision that the election day has to be a bank holiday or a sunday. Also, Article 60ff. contain the provisions for the Reichsrat, which is the representation of the Länder.


Article 76​
The constitution can be changed by the legislative process. However, resolutions of the Reichstag to change the constitution materialize only if two thirds of the lawful number of members are present and two thirds of the members agree to the change. Resolutions of the Reichsrat to change the constitution require two thirds of the cast votes. If a change of the constitution is to be decided by popular vote, this requires a majority of the popular vote.
If the Reichstag has decided on a change of the constitution despite of the Veto of the Reichsrat, the president may not promulgate this law, if the Reichsrat demands a popular vote within two weeks.

And thats' that. Note that you can change *everything*. Either popular vote or two thirds in the Reichstag and no objection by the Rat.
 
If anyone else can see a definition of 'state' and how to amend/change/redraw those bounds, please let me know.
Article 18 seems to have some of what you're looking for: (from the English translated version)
Article 18,
The division of the Reich into Lands shall be such as to serve the people to the highest possible economic and cultural attainment, whereby the will of the population affected shall betaken into consideration as far as possible. The alteration of territory of the Lands and the creation of new Lands within the Reich nay be effected by means of a Reich law amending the Constitution.

If the Lands directly affected give their consent, an ordinary Reich law is sufficient.

An ordinary Reich law is also sufficient, if one of the Lands affected refuses consent, but the territorial alteration or the creation of a new Land is demanded by the will of the population and the paramount interests of the Reich.

The will of the population shall be ascertained by plebiscite. The Government of the Reich orders the plebiscite if, in the territory to be separated, one-third of the inhabitants qualified to vote for the Reichstag so demand.

Three-fifths of the votes taken, but at least a majority of the enfranchised voters, are necessary for a resolution to alter a boundary or create a new Land. Even if it is only a question of the disconnection of a part of a Prussian administrative district (Regierungsbezirk), a Bavarian "county" (Kreis) or a corresponding administrative division in other Lands, the will of the population in the whole district affected must be ascertained. If the territory to be disconnected nowhere adjoins the rest of the district, a specific Reich law may declare that the will of the population in the said district is sufficient.

The consent of the population having been ascertained, the government of the Reich shall introduce an appropriate bill for enactment in the Reichstag.

If the unification or disconnection should give rise to "a dispute concerning the distribution of property, the Constitutional Court of the German Reich shall decide the sane on the application of one party.
 
Also to add to @absent's excellent post above, there is Article 167, which will be relevant to tonight's update:
"Article 167.
The provisions of Article 18, Paragraphs 3 to 6, shall not be effective until two years after the promulgation of the constitution of the Reich"
 
Yes, I am a nerd. Why do you ask?
A Fellow Student of History!!

I'm gonna say long term is try to work on stability, and getting our money problems dealt with.

Think we can send someone to the US for financial support.

USA: What are you doing?

Germany: I am once again asking you for Financial Support.

USA: Okay but why?

Germany: I...need a way to stabilize my currency so I can pay the war reperations.

USA: Your asking a lot of me? I've got a good thing going.

Germany: Come on Man, you want business, lets cut a deal.

USA: Hey...I'm preoccupied trying to deal with Reds and...Oh god is that the Klan? They're BACK!

Germany: Oh boy I hope I don't have to deal with that. *Shifts eyes to the Paramilitaries running around*

USA: Yeah...deal with that first.

Germany: Oh Come on!!
 
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