[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they di
 
It is a "It was heinous, but...." answer. Nothing more.

There is a place for ambiguity, acceptance and nuance. This isn't that place.

Sometimes an uncompromising moral stance has to be taken. Needs to be taken.
I don't think that is the ambiguous option, in this one Jacob is glad that it led to his birth, because he is someone that is happy with his life. The one that's ambiguous is the middle one, where he reserves judgement for what they did.
 
Adhoc vote count started by ALanos on Feb 22, 2021 at 7:02 AM, finished with 104 posts and 37 votes.

A tie in Jacob being grateful and being ambiguous.
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.

Mostly for Jacob's state of mind
 
This won't help Jacob's state of mind. It will just push him closer to be a villain due to him not dealing with this problem now. He will justify something injustifiable.
That's the second option, where he reserves judgement for what they did "Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?". That is him justifying it by giving them the benefit of the doubt. The latter one is him being happy with the end result, which is him being alive, which lends itself to him not being mopy for being born through a tragedy. He's not justifying it.
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
That's the second option, where he reserves judgement for what they did "Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?". That is him justifying it by giving them the benefit of the doubt. The latter one is him being happy with the end result, which is him being alive, which lends itself to him not being mopy for being born through a tragedy. He's not justifying it.

The second vote literally says " You do not think that his actions were justified. "
 
I am a bit surprised the raven isn't among the sketched animals.
Not so surprised that Lobo wolf is the current Patronus. After all those dreams, Jacob still lives in Basques' skin.
Though, it being revealed in the same update where Jacob is declaring his dislike to Lupin made me chuckle. Jacob's current Patronus sure looked upon differently later, by those who don't know of her.


You imagined your father, saying something to you that he had once written: 'You are everything that I wished for in a son.' He stood there and smiled at you, his wand in his hand; tall, strong and proud.
YES, the visual attached despite the original exchange being in latter form fits so well.

"I'm not a hermit, you know,"
YOU ARE.

Poor Megan and Justin, now they know that aside of awful social skills Jacob also has interesting relation with the concept of safety. Truly they are too good and we should keep them.
Yay for Hagrid's fan club. Nice to see Jacob's appreciating him for his character.

...I am going to become allergic to the word "riddle" if you will continue like this.

Too tired for more serious rambling and vote discussion now, see you later.
 
This won't help Jacob's state of mind. It will just push him closer to be a villain due to him not dealing with this problem now. He will justify something injustifiable.
How will he become a villain though his family history is already one steeped in blood that all members are bound to remember it? Jacob is a product of both that history and the curiosity of wizards delving into the nature of the souls where those that study do it in either secrecy or under government discretion. He is also a curious child who is motivated by the wonder of the world and honing his skills in making himself great like the people he considers his grandparents. While he would only care about adventure and the mysteries they entail I would doubt he would ever settle down for a long time and when he does it would mean there is something there for him to discover. The point is he would never become a villain if we don't prod it because we could have voted to kill another being at the cave if we did.

The second vote literally says " You do not think that his actions were justified. "
THe third option also says he thinks it is heinous though. So I don't know why there is such a disagreement between synonyms.
 
That's the second option, where he reserves judgement for what they did "Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?". That is him justifying it by giving them the benefit of the doubt. The latter one is him being happy with the end result, which is him being alive, which lends itself to him not being mopy for being born through a tragedy. He's not justifying it.
I don't think that the second option is Jacob justifying what they did... The main point of that option is that Jacob is conflict about the Flamels, on one hand what they did was terrible, but on the other hand he still loves them, not because they created him, but because they treated him like their grandson...

And you know what? To feel conflicted is not bad, it is an extremely human thing to do, and I think that it will be good for Jacob to be conflicted about things like that...
 
The second vote literally says " You do not think that his actions were justified. "
But then it goes around and say that we will reserve judgment. The last one doesn't do that, it just says that what they did was horrible, but that Jacob is happy that he's alive at the very least.
And you know what? To feel conflicted is not bad, it is an extremely human thing to do, and I think that it will be good for Jacob
In the last option he isn't conflicted on the thing that matters "Their action might have been heinous", he recognizes that what they did was wrong. But he can't not acknowledge that without what happened he wouldn't be here. Most teenagers think they are immortal, but Jacob knows better, for he could have not existed at all. For all that he has a low empathy score, he does have a strong moral compass, and that option does not change that.
 
The third option of being grateful is possibly a self-centered, perhaps narcissistic view for Jacob. He admits that it was a heinous thing that was done...but that it was okay because it lead to his birth and his ability to enjoy life.

In fact, that choice states that he is glad that the heinous deed was done.

That is not a strong moral compass. (Being glad that something terrible happened to a lot of other people because it benefits Jacob is...not strong morals.)
 
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"You are glad they did what they did. "

That is the last sentence of the last choice. He is glad they lied to their friends and captured their souls in order to use them as spell components.

So that he could be alive to enjoy life.

He is not merely saying that he is happy to be alive- none of the choices are saying that Jacob hates his life or that Jacob isn't glad to be alive. That choice is saying that he is glad because all their suffering and trickery of others (while heinous) was worth his existence.
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.
 
I don't think that is the ambiguous option, in this one Jacob is glad that it led to his birth, because he is someone that is happy with his life. The one that's ambiguous is the middle one, where he reserves judgement for what they did.
They are both of ambiguous morality and accepting the crime for different reasons. The second option refuses to judge on the matter and therefore brushes the crime aside. The third states that the crime and suffering was worth it because it ended up benefiting Jacob. It is literally saying the means don't matter as long as the end is worth it.
 
THe third option also says he thinks it is heinous though. So I don't know why there is such a disagreement between synonyms.
They differ in how he treats Flamel (and by extension, others who commit moral violations).
Essentially, it's "I think you did a bad thing, but I also care about you".

"I do not hate you" says that he honestly doesn't care about Flamel personally anymore, not after he did this act, and is only keeping contact because nothing is lost from doing so.

And "I am grateful" essentially puts morality to the bottom of Jacob's priority list.
We've already discussed how he's in danger of becoming a Dark Lord, I don't want to encourage that.
 
[X] In the end, I am the only one who I can judge – You do not think that his actions were justified. Even if you would not be alive without him and his wife, the cost was too large. The logical conclusion is easy, but you do feel conflicted. You remember how well they have always treated and cared for you. Who are you to judge their actions, when you have not walked their shoes?
 
They differ in how he treats Flamel (and by extension, others who commit moral violations).
Essentially, it's "I think you did a bad thing, but I also care about you".

"I do not hate you" says that he honestly doesn't care about Flamel personally anymore, not after he did this act, and is only keeping contact because nothing is lost from doing so.

And "I am grateful" essentially puts morality to the bottom of Jacob's priority list.
We've already discussed how he's in danger of becoming a Dark Lord, I don't want to encourage that.
I don't really believe that Jacob's morality can be that compromised enough for a normal wizard because they can compartmentalize enough of the prejudices and a lot of their eccentricities that what the Flamels did while appaling in polite society would be quietly talked about and wished to be observed when the ritual was finished. Because wizards are still tinkering on the observations of death and what does it mean for them so if it got leaked to the Spanish Ministry I would think there would have been more unspeakable assisstants in a long term duty for the Flamels instead of arresting them because they are also curious of the results as well as celebrating a new life being born by exchanging what seems to be the small amount of souls of each deceased resident before Jacob that remained in the island because it would seem to be a benefit in helping childless couples have children of their own in exchange for the those who have departed already so it could be seen as a win after years of observation. Because like the dementors wizards can rationalize a lot of things so why draw the line at that.

If we want Jacob to have a bit more empathy for his fellow man and beings maybe we should do some Muggle Studies because they have a lot of philosophical books about ethics to make him seem more personable in our mundane eyes because he has lived a life extremely disconnected from the muggle world than even some Slytherins as well as the other purebloods.
 
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[X] I do not hate you, but I pity you – You don't want to break contact with the man, because you do not want your parents to find out what the reason for this is. He has not many years left to his life. You will humour him, but he is not the man you had thought him to be.
 
[X] If nothing else, then I am grateful – Their action might have been heinous, but you would not be alive without it. You would not have learned of the wonders of the world, would not have had the possibility to discover them. You are glad that they did what they did.

this might be a mistake and lead down the dark path but i don't really want to have to face a sad Jacob, meh.

Maybe the power of friendship and good reasoning to not become a genocidal maniac will stop Jacob from walking that path although my Harry potter lore isn't exactly up to date but from what I remember dark magic isn't inherently corruptive, just morally dubious and I think Jacobs a good kid so yeah and we'll probably vote to stop him from fully commiting to murder or whatever, i hope.

Edit: Ehhhh, on second thought i'll just abstain from voting
 
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this might be a mistake and lead down the dark path
I wouldn't worry too much, Jacob is a pretty nice and selfless person, as evidenced by when he saved Nott from the dementors and the Sally-Ann arc. I think this option is the best for his self worth and will allow him to enjoy what's left of his time with one of the people who basically raised him.
Jacobs a good kid so yeah and we'll probably vote to stop him from fully commiting to murder or whatever, i hope.
Yeah, I don't think anyone wants that to happen.
 
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