Decimator targets scale to Hunger. But there clearly is no point continuing, our definitions of risk are clearly realms apart.
Yes, they scale to Hunger. Not!Vetinary was trivial to Hunger at the time. I don't see why we can't potentially find new targets that are in his sort of 'category' again, even if I admit the possibility of them being rarer than Armament-Fish style ultra-fights.
 
Yes, they scale to Hunger. Not!Vetinary was trivial to Hunger at the time. I don't see why we can't potentially find new targets that are in his sort of 'category' again, even if I admit the possibility of them being rarer than Armament-Fish style ultra-fights.
I think at that point though, the concern was a moral one, which is that we'd basically be invading a sovereign nation and taking away access to basic services and rights for some unspecified large amount of people. If it's a trivial fight, then it's probably not a trivial choice to make.
 
I think at that point though, the concern was a moral one, which is that we'd basically be invading a sovereign nation and taking away access to basic services and rights for some unspecified large amount of people. If it's a trivial fight, then it's probably not a trivial choice to make.
That's fair, I suppose. There's also the example of the Fishing Contest, though, which seemed likely to be reasonably safe and morally uncomplicated, for the low, low price of simply being uncertain to provide a proc since Hunger had the possibility of losing. In particular, if we can find another fishing contest, we might actually get to apply Fisher King's +100% All Stats bonus that applies only to Fishing.
 
Honestly, I just want to see the looks on people's faces when this rank 10 hero who just waltz'd out of an Armament fight on the Walls of Myth walks up to their local fishing competition intending to compete.
 
We might have to look further afield due to our capabilities making most such ventures almost trivial. Perhaps it's time to visit the Astral Fishing Congress?
 
I think at that point though, the concern was a moral one, which is that we'd basically be invading a sovereign nation and taking away access to basic services and rights for some unspecified large amount of people. If it's a trivial fight, then it's probably not a trivial choice to make.
I mean, immediately after that moral choice we also decided that decimating sovereign nations was perfectly fine. :/

If Grail Keeper is active then toppling a polity to turn off the Decimation quickly becomes more palatable.
 
Can't we switch off and heal ourselves right before we leave? I'm against days of exposure, a pulse of a few seconds is more acceptable.
What few seconds? If we switch Grail Keeper off before we leave the realm then the voyaging realm gets hit with Decimation while we go hunt a target, it won't even be mitigated by the Realm any more.
 
What few seconds? If we switch Grail Keeper off before we leave the realm then the voyaging realm gets hit with Decimation while we go hunt a target, it won't even be mitigated by the Realm any more.
it only takes us a fraction of a second to heal to full. So, if we keep FK up until we find a target, and the target is easier to kill then Procyon was, then we'll only subject our kingdoms to (one fraction of a second) + (a few seconds at most) of Decimation, which is less then a minute off their lifespans, and subject non-kingdom areas to... well, depends on how long finding a target takes.
 
it only takes us a fraction of a second to heal to full. So, if we keep FK up until we find a target, and the target is easier to kill then Procyon was, then we'll only subject our kingdoms to (one fraction of a second) + (a few seconds at most) of Decimation, which is less then a minute off their lifespans, and subject non-kingdom areas to... well, depends on how long finding a target takes.
There won't be many better chances for an Apocryphal proc than in that in-between time. Similarly, Hunger can get attacked before we can drop Grail Keeper even without Apocryphal.

So, in the end you take a large risk so you can fail to fully tank Decimation and heal a minor wound that will heal on its own anyway. This is a new level of anti-synergy, this the beyond realm of anti-synergy.
 
There won't be many better chances for an Apocryphal proc than in that in-between time. Similarly, Hunger can get attacked before we can drop Grail Keeper even without Apocryphal.

So, in the end you take a large risk so you can fail to fully tank Decimation and heal a minor wound that will heal on its own anyway. This is a new level of anti-synergy, this the beyond realm of anti-synergy.
At Rank 10 Hunger can cut across the entire length of the voyaging realm in hours on foot. With SJUC Hunger will have rank over 10. And Nightmare flight, to reach his goal instantly. We can't bring everyone using this but we can leave some while we beat the shit out of our target.

Hunger has reached the point where random encounters are very unlikely to be a threat - he's an armament level combatant and those are very rare even in the voyaging realm.

My expectation is that our next apocryphal proc will either be multiple armaments, the ring war, or having a sovereign astral beast or 10 dropped on our head. Apocrphal is just... running out of direct threats to Hunger's person within the current universe. It's going to have to start pulling in threats from outside, or targeting our companions since our realms are not at risk because of Adorie.
 
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So, thinking back to Numeracy Ten, it would stack with VigorFlame, not multiply, as they both work off of your base, yes? Still, that would be a 5 times stat multiplier that would hang around even if Aobaru was off doing his own thing or unconscious, right? I ask because I'm imagining an Omake where Hunger burns an Accursed Favor from Fisher King to buy some more powers, with Accursed Favor fulfilling the function of Jade(that is, one Accursed Favor is worth 10 Jade). Elysian isn't much use to him or Adorie because of their magical Rank nonsense and Cursebearer Progression, but Aobaru, Letrizia, and Aerie all benefit. I imagine he'd buy everyone Ten Thousand, because it's insane, especially for Gisena, and Adorie's pocket money of 100 mythic platinum is enough to buy everyone all of the Platinum upgrades. Hunger also buys at least himself Color Red, because it can piggyback off of bloodcasting, allowing him to drain Astral Beasts in a manner similar to Versch's 'Eat Astrals to repair myself.' function, to rapidly increase in power. An additional multiplier on Aobaru's along the ISH is probable in time. He also buys Color Gold for Adorie and himself, given their kingdoms count as much, much more than a minor lord's. Gisena is quite interested in the Verses.

It's obviously a cracky power fantasy, but I'm very interested in some of the potential power interactions. Imagine if Gisena had ten thousand mental instances to study Graces with. She might legitimately outpace Hunger.

By the by, I very much would rather we Always Forward and Hunger Sated, as we may well have escalated to the point only Aprocryphal can find Decimation targets for us without the Realm's power, since we've grown quite a bit since the fish. Fisher King's fishing target mitigation might lower that threshold back into range, but that's a pretty big if, and if not-Vetrinari is any indication it may instead go for much morally nastier targets in place of power. Plus, Gisena may well go for the Make Whole combo, and partially repair our sword anyway. Then there's the fact that Hunger Sated via a monster is basically guaranteed to give Picks, as has been mentioned.
 
Still not sure if Armour or Nightmare Flight is better. Pre Casting Armour is definitely a big plus but the utility of being able to move our entire party to any location instead of splitting the group up for a day is pretty damn useful.

Adhoc vote count started by Rah13 on Dec 10, 2020 at 10:59 AM, finished with 210 posts and 52 votes.
 
At Rank 10 Hunger can cut across the entire length of the voyaging realm in hours on foot. With SJUC Hunger will have rank over 10. And Nightmare flight, to reach his goal instantly. We can't bring everyone using this but we can leave some while we beat the shit out of our target.

Hunger has reached the point where random encounters are very unlikely to be a threat - he's an armament level combatant and those are very rare even in the voyaging realm.

My expectation is that our next apocryphal proc will either be multiple armaments, the ring war, or having a sovereign astral beast or 10 dropped on our head. Apocrphal is just... running out of direct threats to Hunger's person within the current universe. It's going to have to start pulling in threats from outside, or targeting our companions since our realms are not at risk because of Adorie.
Or it could buff existing threats.

Our next enemy could be Evil!Gisena, for example.
 
At Rank 10 Hunger can cut across the entire length of the voyaging realm in hours on foot. With SJUC Hunger will have rank over 10. And Nightmare flight, to reach his goal instantly. We can't bring everyone using this but we can leave some while we beat the shit out of our target.
I don't want to count the SJUC chicken before it hatches, but as I understand it Hunger can't carry the whole party in a baggage train... right...?
 
I mean, it depends on what you want. Upgrading Armor of Midnight is very much "lose less" kind of vote, which i find better with Apo being a thing. Getting caught with our Armor down is very easy(as we still lack divinatory abilities) and very obvious vector of attack, and I'd very much want to avoid that kind of situation.
 
Alright, lets analyze my current favorite build - Fisher King into Super Juggernaut Undead Chimera into Companions of the King. First, lets see what these abilities offer us:
  • FK: we finally get to finish this, meaning that we are not floating 12 Arete anymore. We gain alternative Decimator Mitigation, upgrade Hunger Sated, gain 50% Rank Gain and 10 Accursed Favor
  • SJUC: We gain 1.4(or 1.5) Rank, 2x(or 1x) 100% to stat of our choice and we open up another Defining Advancement slot
  • CotK: We get our companions to our Rank, up to 50% to all stats, up to 100% to Rank gain, we can be resurrected by our allies
Pretty decent spread of utility and combat power. SJUC, in particular, would vastly increase our general combat power(Combat Rank 10.2-11.6, Blood Rank 11.2-12.6) as well as utility via Blood. In general, we likely want to get FK and SJUC now, as both should help with Decimator, and then get CotK when we have opportunity to do so. CotK does have additional requirements we currently don't know, so that might prove to be an issue.

When completed, this should give us some major boons. With FK and CotK we'd be at nutty 250% Rank Gain(as an example, that would turn 0.2 Rank into 0.7 Rank) and, more importantly, this would put all our friends at Rank 9.6(or 9.7). Other than absolute improvement in their combat ability, this should have additional utility for Letrizia(due to Sharpbright) and Gisena(improving her research speed). Additionally, this should unlock Shrouds for Gisena, Letrizia, Aobaru and Aeire, which will obviously bring even more utility to the table.

Finally, don't forget that Orb gives us 0.125 Rank, which turns into 0.44 with 250% Rank Gain. This would be enough to push our Rank past 10, allowing us to add Adorie to our Companion list.

So yeah, this sounds pretty good. I'm sure that it's not as strong as SitS/OaF3, but it does make our companions much more relevant, which is what majority seems to care a lot. Build up is good, and there's a lot of value here.
 
With SJUC we would be at Rank 10.5 but our Companions get [Rank - 1] so we need to be Rank 11 to get Adorie as companion
Adorie could be a Companion with Hunger at Rank 10.5, but Adorie's rank would not be increased until Hunger's Rank hits 11+

Adorie would still give us the +20% Rank gain and +10% All Stats from being a companion, tho


I'm sure that it's not as strong as SitS/OaF3
I'm not sure of this. SJUC puts us to Bloodcasting 12, which was mentioned as a meaningful milestone. Meanwhile, SitS is a conditional boost that requires us to forego the use of the FB Blade during day to day life, which I think has been overlooked as a vulnerability. Its activation conditions aren't guaranteed to apply, either
 
With SJUC we would be at Rank 10.5 but our Companions get [Rank - 1] so we need to be Rank 11 to get Adorie as companion
Going over blurb:
[ ] Companions of the King [5 + 25 Arete] - A hero out of myth deserves a company of legends, but what foremost company could withstand the presence the Forebear's presence itself? No mere shadow these; not his callously-refracted light, but true champions of power everlasting - for a King must have his Knights.

Requires Undying Vanguard, which can be purchased for 5 Arete and 0 picks. The character may ignore the other requirements for this Advancement during this experience spending point. You may designate up to five companions each of which is treated as possessing active Rank no lower than [Your Rank - 1]. This includes your base Rank as well as any permanent external modifiers to general Rank. Once designated, a companion cannot be replaced until they are slain beyond the possibility of recovery; take care that you do not raise up a Mordred or Lancelot.

So long as you are accompanied by a given anointed companion, your teamwork is effortless and masterful; you both receive +10% All Stats. The exploits of your companions redound on your own mythic history; receive +20% Rank gain for each companion anointed, so long as they are either directly assisting you or participating in tasks of legendary import. These effects can both stack. Finally, so long as even one companion is alive, you can always be revived from death via an incredibly difficult ritual.
There doesn't seem to be the need to be higher Rank than our allies in order to designate them as companions. Also, Rank used for math includes "permanent external modifiers", which is to say OaF, meaning that once we hit base Rank 10+(i.e. 10.3 with Orb) we'd push Adorie to 10.3 too.

Still, that we don't need to wait for Orb to include Adorie is pretty nice.
 
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