Yep, you are correct, I forgot about it. That was a bad purchase decision.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
Vote King of Winter. Avoid Regret.Discord said:
I do. I can think of number of EFBs i would take over it. Fact of the matter is that CON and PROT part is just not very important, so it's just Ruin buff. And since I can think of at least three different EFBs I'd get over RoB(RoP, OaF 2 and SitS, probably SJUC too) I don't see why we would ever get it, with Arete at least.
Yes, but blood tripling also works on other stats too, so we would get better Agi, Cha and other mental stats. It's also not one time thing, as it will buff our future gains for Blood picks, which are already the most efficient ones anyway.
[X] The Tears of Winter: King of Winter
I've been thinking about that, and considering mere power has extremely limited ability to counter Apocryphal Curse, which is by far the biggest source of danger we have, King of Winter does seem more likely to keep us alive in the long term. Crimson Flare is still awesome though.
I've been thinking about that, and considering mere power has extremely limited ability to counter Apocryphal Curse, which is by far the biggest source of danger we have, King of Winter does seem more likely to keep us alive in the long term. Crimson Flare is still awesome though.
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Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
It's pronounced like "ab" like in abdominal, then "say" like the word for speaking, then "moo" like the English onomatopoeia for a cow.
- Location
- a place
You know what I'm really looking forward too whichever of these wins? Being able to give the people of the Inner Temple back their absurd lifespans and safety from the depredations of the Voyaging Realm without having to condone the millennia long torture of a sentient being or the massacre of countless innocent beings drawn by it's psychic echoes of pain.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Also from R:
Discord said:
Pacifying the Arcanist via a blurb doesn't feel like a victory, and the thread might also regret taking Season's Greetings. If we turn Nilfel into a safe-house from the Apocryphal Curse, we are also turning it into a no-fly zone. Hunger will only be able to return for infrequent, short visits. That's fine, up until you realize that this closes off the Shard of the Arcanist plot, restricts our access to the newly awakened Fonts of Myth, and kicks Hunger out of his own territorial conquests.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
It's interesting that so many people insist that Hunger needs to be more cautious to survive the Epilogue, insist that that they objected to the 4-pick fight, insist that a 5 pick fight will never happen again... but then act with near certainty that no change in behavior will be forthcoming. These voting patterns aren't just coming from me being a virtuoso advocate whose preferred option wins every single time, after all.
I am happy that R has stepped in help us dodge a bullet, i guess. My other emotions about how it was necessary are complicated so i'm going to ignore them for now
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RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
We have limited wordcount and I don't really want to waste more of it on Voyaging Realm stuff. Resolving the Shard 1) gets the loot and info from it, 2) removes the knife in our back and 3) stops further wastage of wordcount on stuff I don't care about that much.
Given the speed at which Hunger and high rank people in general operate, I'm sure that we can make short trips to Nilfel and profitably exploit the Fonts if we even need to do that. It didn't take us very long to devour the Tower or learn the 5th Sign after all.
If you care about communications and ruling Nilfel, Adorie's the actual ruler so imo we should trust her and whoever she delegates it to. Plus, we can develop remote communication capabilities to do the needful if it becomes necessary.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
[citation needed]
Also removes the very interesting worldbuilding opportunity to talk to an actual Foremost. If we go of our own volition it wouldn't even be an Apocryphal Proc.
saying you don't care about the Voyaging Realm is turning into a cliche in the thread ever since Long Voyage. BUT: about 99% of the wordcount from the quest is about the Voyaging Realm. Repeatedly insisting that you don't care about any of the settings that we've explored just sounds to me like you aren't enjoying the quest
It's also a very frustrating position to argue against because why are you reading the quest if you don't care about what's happened in it so far?
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- Location
- a place
Nothing in this thread really makes me more sad then hearing people refer to stuff happening in the Voyaging Realm as a waste of wordcount, especially when theirs so much interesting about it we don't know, tied to our various companions, previous settings, and even the history of cursebearers as well as the nature of curses. So much amazing stuff has happened here and I think it's one of the best settings Rihaku has came up with. I really, really hope a stint the Human Realm gives people more appetite to come back and look into the Praehir stuff or resolve aoboru's quest or defeat his enemy when we're more powerful and the war is not a immediate threat hanging over the human spheres head.
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RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
Just wanted to clarify that I don't dislike the Voyaging Realm. But at this moment there are more plot threads that are time-limited that also happen to be in the Human Sphere. We promised to deliver Letrizea back but have been much slower than we could have been, and now her family is being threatened by the war. There's a looming prospect of a Ringwar, which we have a vested interest in due to owning and being Hunger.
I'm not saying there isn't enough material in the Voyaging Realm to build an engaging plot - we have Aobaru's quest and the Foremost fragments and need to unify the straggling parts under our domain. But I feel like it isn't as time relevant as the Human Sphere plots especially with the war going on and so at this moment, staying in the Voyaging Realm when Hunger could stand to greatly influence the Human Sphere feels like a lost opportunity.
We might have seen Armaments before:
The Seed of Genesis: Contains a curse(s), which it is subject to. Is tied to a Cursebearer, Seram, it's not clear what would happen to the Seed of Seram died, but given it has a seperate physical form survival seems possible. Has a personality and values. Can re-manifest into reality if destroyed.
Armament: Contains a single curse, which it is subject to. Can be tied to a Cursebearer/Praehihr though this isn't required. Has a personality and values. Armaments manifest into reality for mysterious reasons that no one really understands.
Are Armaments "responsible for administration, advancement, and control of the Remittance"? Hunger's Remittance was Rank, and the Armaments we've seen so far all use Rank as their primary tool, so it's quite possible. No mention of whether lesser Remittances share this connection but since Gisena hasn't mentioned any special Versch connection I'd say a likely no there.
Armaments we've seen so far only have 1 curse, not all curses like the Seed does, but we've only seen a handful of Armaments so far.
Armaments do not grow stronger so far as we've seen, but then again none of these Armaments have linked Cursebearers earning xp for them, and the Seed does mention it needs a Cursebearer to grow stronger.
All this is further complicated by the fact that Versch is not Hunger's personal Armament, just one he bonded with. Versch still has plenty of secrets, Hunger can't even use Versch as a Implement yet like the Foremost did, and there's been plenty of hints of even greater secrets.
Perhaps if Hunger built his own Armament it would share all 4 of his curses, and have some deep link with his Remittance/Rank, possibly have a lesser link with his lesser Remittances, grow stronger as Hunger does, and so on.
The Seed of Genesis: Contains a curse(s), which it is subject to. Is tied to a Cursebearer, Seram, it's not clear what would happen to the Seed of Seram died, but given it has a seperate physical form survival seems possible. Has a personality and values. Can re-manifest into reality if destroyed.
Armament: Contains a single curse, which it is subject to. Can be tied to a Cursebearer/Praehihr though this isn't required. Has a personality and values. Armaments manifest into reality for mysterious reasons that no one really understands.
Are Armaments "responsible for administration, advancement, and control of the Remittance"? Hunger's Remittance was Rank, and the Armaments we've seen so far all use Rank as their primary tool, so it's quite possible. No mention of whether lesser Remittances share this connection but since Gisena hasn't mentioned any special Versch connection I'd say a likely no there.
Armaments we've seen so far only have 1 curse, not all curses like the Seed does, but we've only seen a handful of Armaments so far.
Armaments do not grow stronger so far as we've seen, but then again none of these Armaments have linked Cursebearers earning xp for them, and the Seed does mention it needs a Cursebearer to grow stronger.
All this is further complicated by the fact that Versch is not Hunger's personal Armament, just one he bonded with. Versch still has plenty of secrets, Hunger can't even use Versch as a Implement yet like the Foremost did, and there's been plenty of hints of even greater secrets.
Perhaps if Hunger built his own Armament it would share all 4 of his curses, and have some deep link with his Remittance/Rank, possibly have a lesser link with his lesser Remittances, grow stronger as Hunger does, and so on.
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Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Trawled through the Discord for some more relevant info:
Short discussion on how future decision-making might underestimate or rationalize the dangers of Apocryphal, such as the sheer benefit of Heroic Advancements, thus prompting Rihaku's previous prediction.
RoB doesn't affect +Attack Speed, and it's not easy to get from what we know.Rihaku said:
Wolber has a good grasp on managing & mitigating Apocryphal. Unlike Hunger, he does not care for Heroics.Rihaku said:
Hunger would not have needed a Full Shattering Blow against Augustine.Rihaku said:
[2:07 AM] Aabcehmu: You know what's kind of fu**ed up?
[2:08 AM] Aabcehmu: There are going to be people who are going to be tempted to take another 5-pick fight in the future if a Heroic Upgrade is on the table
[2:08 AM] Aabcehmu: Possibly in part because of these blurbs
[2:09 AM] runeblue360: being able to get an EFB without spending arete is indeed tempting
[2:09 AM] runeblue360: especially with the additional 5 pick supershinies
[2:09 AM] runeblue360: and the hype fights
[2:09 AM] Genesys: randomly picking 5p fights
[2:09 AM] Genesys: isn't necessarily heroism in of itself
[2:10 AM] Aabcehmu: But people might be tempted to take another 5-pick fight, if it's offering a Heroic Upgrade
[2:10 AM] runeblue360: if it's any consolation, a lot of the more powerful opponents we might face would probably get scared off by the favour
[2:10 AM] runeblue360: though i'm more curious if there's any non-fight methods of getting heroic advancements
[2:08 AM] Aabcehmu: There are going to be people who are going to be tempted to take another 5-pick fight in the future if a Heroic Upgrade is on the table
[2:08 AM] Aabcehmu: Possibly in part because of these blurbs
[2:09 AM] runeblue360: being able to get an EFB without spending arete is indeed tempting
[2:09 AM] runeblue360: especially with the additional 5 pick supershinies
[2:09 AM] runeblue360: and the hype fights
[2:09 AM] Genesys: randomly picking 5p fights
[2:09 AM] Genesys: isn't necessarily heroism in of itself
[2:10 AM] Aabcehmu: But people might be tempted to take another 5-pick fight, if it's offering a Heroic Upgrade
[2:10 AM] runeblue360: if it's any consolation, a lot of the more powerful opponents we might face would probably get scared off by the favour
[2:10 AM] runeblue360: though i'm more curious if there's any non-fight methods of getting heroic advancements
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Here are some quotes on the Seed, bolding is mine.
"Superweapon" "Endbringer". Armaments are totally grown-up seed of genesis creations.
Hunger's Armament started out as a whale pokemon, and later on would evolve into a proper Endbringer. Too bad VOTERS KILLED IT!!!!! And Seram could have had a magical robot!
As for what's up with Procyon, my best guess is Procyon had a first life as a normal flesh-style Foremost-made Armament. Then it died in whatever disaster killed off the Foremost. Then countless years later, it then re-manifested itself via ArmaIt pulling an Iron-man impersonation with a box of scraps.
Why did it re-manifest? Maybe the ArmarIt dynasty is special, and allow for Seeds/Armaments to remanifest even after their original owners are dead. Maybe this world is specially made for Armaments to re-manifest. Maybe these models were made by the Builders and so are somewhat different than the one the Accursed provided. Maybe it was able to re-manifest because all the original Cursebearers are still alive, but they're locked away outside of space and time or something and this is as close as Procyon can get.
"Superweapon" "Endbringer". Armaments are totally grown-up seed of genesis creations.
Hunger's Armament started out as a whale pokemon, and later on would evolve into a proper Endbringer. Too bad VOTERS KILLED IT!!!!! And Seram could have had a magical robot!
As for what's up with Procyon, my best guess is Procyon had a first life as a normal flesh-style Foremost-made Armament. Then it died in whatever disaster killed off the Foremost. Then countless years later, it then re-manifested itself via ArmaIt pulling an Iron-man impersonation with a box of scraps.
Why did it re-manifest? Maybe the ArmarIt dynasty is special, and allow for Seeds/Armaments to remanifest even after their original owners are dead. Maybe this world is specially made for Armaments to re-manifest. Maybe these models were made by the Builders and so are somewhat different than the one the Accursed provided. Maybe it was able to re-manifest because all the original Cursebearers are still alive, but they're locked away outside of space and time or something and this is as close as Procyon can get.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
To be fair, I don't think it's that much of a longshot to have it cleaned up and its remains carted out to us while we're off oppressing the runic glacier civilizations we saw on the way to Nilfel or something
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Either way. I see about... 6 choices to resolve the Voyaging Realm extraction in total.
1. Leave with Adorie(Convince the Nilfel population with whatever's necessary, if Ring wins this subject s our holdings to Apocrypha. Deal with however long it takes to integrate Elixir and Temple residents into Nilfels Protection with King of Winter)
2. Take the time necessary for Gisena to come up with something (Presumably lower with ring but still problematic if it takes longer than a Realm of Evening vacation)
3. Get Refinement of Place in the Realm of Evening, use it to escape through the Astral Realm(Extreme risk presumably)
4. Bargain with Astral Denizen(Likely to cause future problems)
5. Bother the Shard of the Arcanist (Presumably extreme risk)
6. Fight the Defenses(Presumably extreme risk)
1. Leave with Adorie(Convince the Nilfel population with whatever's necessary, if Ring wins this subject s our holdings to Apocrypha. Deal with however long it takes to integrate Elixir and Temple residents into Nilfels Protection with King of Winter)
2. Take the time necessary for Gisena to come up with something (Presumably lower with ring but still problematic if it takes longer than a Realm of Evening vacation)
3. Get Refinement of Place in the Realm of Evening, use it to escape through the Astral Realm(Extreme risk presumably)
4. Bargain with Astral Denizen(Likely to cause future problems)
5. Bother the Shard of the Arcanist (Presumably extreme risk)
6. Fight the Defenses(Presumably extreme risk)
I'm sure Refinement of Battle is great value but I honestly am not interested in it at all. It's a boring number multiplier, that even causes Investiture (which I presume results in a slight reduction in the essence pool we draw from to fuel Praxis techniques). It's probably the least interesting of the Praxis techniques we've seen currently and I think Refinement of Purpose offers a lot of the same combat benefits while directly augmenting our Praxis stamina to boot and RoP has a more interesting narrative beat associated with it as well.
I'm much more interested in picking up more Praxis runes like Shatter the Pane or Unbound Severing since they'd give more context to the runic system of the Praxis. Or if we're going for true Refinements, Refinement of Place has great utility, combat benefits while also offering a unique ability to manipulate positional contexts. How much more conceptually potent would Hunger's abilities be if he could truly move into the Realm of Forms? We already know partial transitions into that Realm feature as part of the activation of Quickness, but I think we could get more insight into the ontological basis of the multiverse if we actually breached the Realm of Forms completely.
Plus, space-tearing sword slashes and teleporting cuts are just cool.
Of course, we could always just go for the crown jewel of Refinements in the Imperial Refinement... Elevating our skill in the Sword beyond the Royal Praxis to the echelon of the Imperial Praxis could well cause a fundamental change in our powers just as Cut Through elevated the Forebear's Blade. We have been talking about getting more Potential-type Advancements recently and I really can't think of a better option for potential than the Imperial Praxis.
Also, the resulting Praxis lore would likely be so awesome, we'll regret not getting Imperial Refinement sooner.
Refinement of Battle definitely doesn't interest me nearly as much as other options cause of that. I'm also pretty reluctant to invest further in pure 'power' EFBs when we already have a huge number of them and with Hunger transitioning into the midgame, it might be more prudent to re-focus on potential-type abilities for medium to long-term growth.