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A Simple Transaction I

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Alright, lets consider what Crimson Flare offers:
  • Tripling Quickening stats is actually super good. Not only we gain ~45 stats immediately, but it also triples the value of future Quickening picks. In other words, our Progression+ get tripled in value! And just as we are about to enter Pillars too. Talk about efficiency
  • Bigger sensory range has obvious upsides and combos with our various abilities. However, especially nice thing about is that it scales with Int and Wits - and we have option to get Honing, which increases INT, and thus our Blood range, in combat
  • Our First Flaring will massively empower all our allies. Letrizia, in particular, will benefit a lot from that added Rank, but everyone will get a significant increase in power. Additionally Architect should do wonders for Gisena+Adorie combo. We did unlock Foremost Builder, might as well make use of it
  • Needless to say, combination of empowered Ennobling and increased range allows us to improve powers of any kingdom by a lot. This and Architect both have massive synergy with SitS, which we do plan on grabbing at some point
  • While Winter King prevents Apo stuff, Flare introduces good to counteract the bad. An interesting proposition..
  • Our Bloodcasting gets improved in an insane manner. This not only acts as awesome immediate power boost, but will make any future Rank gain that much more valuable
  • Overall, we gain a lot of immediate power(stats+stronger bloodcasting+buffed allies), long term scaling(tripled Blood+better value from bloodcasting rank+Architect) and we address the issue of Adore not being there for Apocryphal procs. What's not to like?
 
The Apocryphal tends to introduce problems that can challenge Hunger.... While the First Flare grants immense power, it may be a stretch to say that it fully addresses potential Voyaging-based Apocryphal procs. Even the Flare-buffed populace is not on the level of Hunger himself.
 
Wolfy said:
  • Our Bloodcasting gets improved in an insane manner. This not only acts as awesome immediate power boost, but will make any future Rank gain that much more valuable
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And it's not just a power boost! The reality manipulation from our Ring of Blood was our first "utility" style pick, and arguably the most versatile. It is not as in-your-face as the Signs, but having perfect skill within the bloodcasting part of reality manipulation might provide a dramatic boost to the value of Ruling Ring once we get it. It is also plausible (if not guaranteed) that perfect skill within our domain could grant some resilience to the more esoteric or oblique threats of a Contest of Primacy.

Basically, reality manipulation + Rank is strong, and we're sleeping on it so far.
 
Well, another solution would be letting Adorie stay in Nilfel most of the time while researching some kind of spell to summon her for the really important fights. Not as good as having her with us all the time, of course, but it doesn't have the downside of leaving Nilfel open to Apocrypha's attacks.
 
[X] The Tears of Winter: King of Winter

Hmm. Doubling our offensive Might and tripling our defensive powers as a result is really, really nice honestly. Nice enough that I think the thread won't be able to pass up getting Refinement of Battle, which would do a lot for our Armament issues as the time goes on.
 
runeblue360 said:
Refinement of Battle
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I think RoB is better at the moment because it will make the ADS Power of Ruin defense 7x more powerful. Currently it is 11.25x Ruin. If we get King of Winter it would become 17.5x Ruin. If we get RoB after that -...well it is multiplicative after all -> 122.5x Ruin which will scale upwards rapidly and without limits.
Our defense is lacking at the moment - yes Armor of Midnight is awesome but we cannot sacrifice 0.1 Rank everytime for all eternity - we need a better long term solution. Also Armor was hyped up as invincible but the Armament smashed it.
EDIT: RoB does provide 7x defense increase which would help. Still Opalescense and Iridescense are non negotiable - just 2 picks and 2 Arete to make our protection better.
 
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Sharkey_smt said:
I think RoB is better at the moment because it will make the ADS Power of Ruin defense 7x more powerful. Currently it is 11.25x Ruin. If we get King of Winter it would become 17.5x Ruin. If we get RoB after that -...well it is multiplicative after all -> 122.5x Ruin which will scale upwards rapidly and without limits.
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Yeah, exactly. And ruin is omniapplicable and automatic. Considering the importance of matchups when it comes to fighting Armaments, having something that'll always improve our chances regardless of the attack thrown at us is really nice, as is the fact that it'll protect against the Apocryphal doing dumb stuff like causing spontaneous reality failure in once of our territories.

Moreover, this is also power that works to protect our Vanguard, which is pretty important considering the powerscales we're currently playing at would vaporise them instantly otherwise. Crimson Flare doesn't provide any noticeable improvements in that regard, at least without hunger actively healing them.
 
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[X] The Evening Sky: Pillars of Creation

Imagine how much power we could gain ind 210 days, Hunger managed to get to level where he had a chance in a fight against an Armament at full power in only a few months and the rate of growth for a Progression Cursebearer only increases with how strong they become so the level of power Hunger will have gained by the end of the 210 days in the Realm of Evening will be far greater than what we could get now.
 
runeblue360 said:
Moreover, this is also power that works to protect our Vanguard, which is pretty important considering the powerscales we're currently playing at would vaporise them instantly otherwise. Crimson Flare doesn't provide any noticeable improvements in that regard, at least without hunger actively healing them.
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That awkward moment when Adorie has the most relationship plusses if we take King. Gisena eternally BTFO.
While Gisena studied the Runes, Adorie helped Hunger
While Gisena was messing around, Adorie talked to Hunger and grew closer
While Gisena was her usual purple bitch useless self, Adorie used flex tape to stop Hunger from diminishing
While Gisena was trying to find a way to extract the kids from the realm, Adorie offered a helping hand to Hunger
Adorie>>>>>>>Gisena
Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can't
 
Sharkey_smt said:
That awkward moment when Adorie has the most relationship plusses if we take King. Gisena eternally BTFO.
While Gisena studied the Runes, Adorie helped Hunger
While Gisena was messing around, Adorie talked to Hunger and grew closer
While Gisena was her usual purple bitch useless self, Adorie used flex tape to stop Hunger from diminishing
While Gisena was trying to find a way to extract the kids from the realm, Adorie offered a helping hand to Hunger
Adorie>>>>>>>Gisena
Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can't
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Adorie is Aurelia, and Gisena is Suizhen Xiaoling?
 
Adorie is 18-19 and extremely sheltered so of the bizarre amount of children we've adopted, she's our favourite.

Don't worry Gisena, no need to crush her, she's not a rival, so please put down the knife.
 
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Sharkey_smt said:
That awkward moment when Adorie has the most relationship plusses if we take King. Gisena eternally BTFO.
While Gisena studied the Runes, Adorie helped Hunger
While Gisena was messing around, Adorie talked to Hunger and grew closer
While Gisena was her usual purple bitch useless self, Adorie used flex tape to stop Hunger from diminishing
While Gisena was trying to find a way to extract the kids from the realm, Adorie offered a helping hand to Hunger
Adorie>>>>>>>Gisena
Prove me wrong. Pro tip: you can't
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A bold claim when Gisena has both saved Hunger and paid for her own companion EFB :V .
 
Strange9 said:
A bold claim when Gisena has both saved Hunger and paid for her own companion EFB
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Adorie EFB - Hunger gets +10 All Stats, Rank 10, ability to exit the Voyaging realm without issue
Gisena EFB - completely selfish, no mechanical benefits to Hunger (don't talk to me about Mitigation), has True Quintessence - no Graces developed. Finally manages to not being a fucking scrub and gets her EFB, elevating her to being useless on the battlefield against Armament. So much for Nullity.
 
Zampano said:
And it's not just a power boost! The reality manipulation from our Ring of Blood was our first "utility" style pick, and arguably the most versatile. It is not as in-your-face as the Signs, but having perfect skill within the bloodcasting part of reality manipulation might provide a dramatic boost to the value of Ruling Ring once we get it. It is also plausible (if not guaranteed) that perfect skill within our domain could grant some resilience to the more esoteric or oblique threats of a Contest of Primacy.

Basically, reality manipulation + Rank is strong, and we're sleeping on it so far.
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I'm actually looking forward to that ability where we link our allies to our blood, making them immortal as long as we live. Not having to worry about their lives would make so many things that much easier.
Sharkey_smt said:
Our defense is lacking at the moment - yes Armor of Midnight is awesome but we cannot sacrifice 0.1 Rank everytime for all eternity - we need a better long term solution. Also Armor was hyped up as invincible but the Armament smashed it.
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We pay well less for Armor with Adorie around.
 
We would have been pretty dead without Armor. Yes, the Armament smashed us to paste even through it, which we could luckily regenerate from... but things would have been much more dicey otherwise.
 
I'm a little pressed for time, so this analysis will have less word count padding than I'd prefer. I'm sure you're all devastated. Here are some arguments for Crimson Flare that I hope you will consider:


1. Hunger's battlefield & combat ability is dramatically increased even beyond what the value of tripled Quickening (58 physical & 24 mental +s) might suggest. The restoration of the Ring of Blood makes Hunger immune to "mere physical harm." This would be another multiplier on our existing health bar that makes it easier to pull off tactics like "use our body to intercept punches from Procyon."

Additionally, the radius of blood sense perceptions provides real-time battlefield awareness that would be very difficult to hide from. We are entering a Human Sphere on the verge of war, which might see combat encounters with multiple Armaments deployed. I'd rather not find out what it's like to be surprised by stumbling over an enemy Armament.

Finally, "even an Armament within its Shroud would be noticeably affected" by Blood buffs / debuffs from the Crimson Ring. Procyon was notable for being constructed out of metal; Foremost Armaments will be even more susceptible to our Blood Domain because they have biomechanical components. Between the -0.5 Rank from opposing Adorie's Champion and Hunger's +2 Blood casting Rank, Crimson has a dedicated anti-Armament capability.

2. Wolfy pointed out the combination of National range Bloodcasting and Sword in the Stone, but there's also a synergy with Grail Keeper. The effects of making our territory barren and our citizens infertile can be mitigated somewhat by absolute control over both physical and symbolic manifestations of blood.

3. The Architect of the Age feat is a powerful mechanic when paired with the boosts of First Flaring. Gisena and Adorie certainly count, and they already have the potential to unlock Status: Foremost Maker. Crimson Flare builds on that more explicitly than King of Winter does, for example.

4. It probably shouldn't be decisive, but it's funny to me that even the lesser version of Ennoblement is more effective than the empowerment methods from the Temple of the False Moon. Folding the Sovereignty and the Temple Remnant into Nilfel will streamline our efforts to straighten out our affairs in the Voyaging Realm before we dip. This is particularly important given that Adorie seems to be coming with us.


i think there's a lot to be said for the other options, but this is the one that i'm hyped about right now
 
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[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

Think this offers the most power long term. The protection offered by Nilfhelm is really only helpful in the short-term. Unless we find a way to expand the realm, which I admit could very well be possible. But even then eventually we leave this universe, and unless we have a flag or something to claim land in the next universe the bonus will fade in time.

Also the bonuses being applied to Adorie really isn't much of a bonus, she has little skill in fighting and is best used as a diplomancer/administrator. As much as people like to hate on Gisena the fact that she is very skilled means that stats are rarely wasted on her. I would keep her in the party as she is useful and has good synergy with Gisena, but I would love to separate her from her bloodline buff as even with her stats and rank combat probably isn't where she should be.
 
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

I'm gonna assume that the missing pick was retroactively Exalted Spirit.
 
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

I gave up the chance to get Sword Trinity for this thing. It better pull its weight.
 
Probably not an effective argument for everybody, but King of Winter's "Fonts of Myth" might be the same as the "Sorcery of the Well" that powers our cloak. Any cost reduction in signs is welcome because it brings us closer to Armament Time. Restoring the wound in the Walls of Myth is something I'd like to see as well. Also, King of Winter + Whiteout + Ruin is extremely compelling to me on a mechanical level.

Meanwhile, I think that technical skill in the sword would be an amazing asset in our task of teaching Aobaru how to avoid dying.

Everything here is good but only one option can win.
 
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