A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- a place
Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
I know I claimed abstinence, but you convinced me.
[X] Myth and Legend
[X] Grievous Exertion
I want to see Hunger's eyes sparkle with joy.
Magical_Duck
The One Who Quacks
- Location
- A Pond
- Pronouns
- Duck
[X] A King For All Seasons
[X] Myth and Legend
"Quack qu Quack"
[X] Least Foresleep
[X] Myth and Legend
"Quack qu Quack"
[X] Least Foresleep
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Well, we'll only need to fight one Armament head-on to scale past an "average" Armament. Besides, if we're fighting four Armaments head-on, I'm not entirely sure more personal strength is good enough (especially if they hunt down Aobaru, for or example, or decide to raze our territories instead of engaging in direct combat)
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
When we said that more personal power was unnecessary against Augustine, we regretted it almost immediately. When we said that universe scale defensive power was enough to handle an Armament fight, we spent three weeks IRL shitting bricks.
There are many reasons that being able to fight 4 Armaments at once would be good and necessary. The biggest reason is *Battlefield Control*. If Versch can fight more than one Armament at a time, he immediately ties up multiple enemy assets. We don't need to actually be facing 4 Armaments simultaneously to gain value from being able to go 1v4 should the opportunity present itself.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
rip
Really considering this after Rihaku advocacy in the Discord. With the war already begun, staying in the Voyaging Realm wouldn't be the worst thing in the world honestly; eliminating an Armament has probably shifted the strategic situation in the VR significantly. Even if they know exactly where Procyon and Verschlengorge are, I doubt they'd send in more Armaments before they actually knew what they were dealing with, which would give us a significant amount of time to grind up until we're more comfortable in facing Armaments. Just as importantly, it gives us one final chance at dealing with the Shard in whatever manner we deem appropriate. That's a chance for Foremost lore, a tutor for Gisena, spectacularly powerful buffs etc. Just disarming that bomb so the Apocryphal can't throw it at us later might be worth it.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Eh, Myth and Legend also gives accelerated sign research and improved Praxis efficiency, it's more potential based than the other option while giving pretty great immediate power.
Praxis shouldn't be underestimated, we had two techniques both of which made the bedrock of our victory here. Each further technique gained is invaluable and it's something onto which our training debuff doesn't apply.
Praxis shouldn't be underestimated, we had two techniques both of which made the bedrock of our victory here. Each further technique gained is invaluable and it's something onto which our training debuff doesn't apply.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Hmmm... let me try another line of attack. The new Signs we get will undoubtedly be powerful, but we take on fairly egregious drawbacks as a tradeoff. Obviously there are casting costs (but these usually are outweighed by the benefit of the Sign itself), but when comparing Myth and Legend to any other option, you have to compare Myth and Legend alone to said other option plus a condition we take on. Affliction of Slumber for a whole year is terrible for obvious reasons (obliterating our ability to maximize time for each day and proccing at inconvenient times), losing Praxis techniques is incredibly weakening (we basically relied on Quickness to carry us for 3/4ths of the fight), we are comprehensively weakened for a month (stats hurts, but the -2 Rank is calamitous, not to mention -- mental stability, which bodes of Bad Things) or forsaking 10 Arete (which cuts off a lot of options) and losing 5 picks (which obviously curtails long-term growth to about the same amount that a short term boost in power might get).
When looking at it like that, it becomes much easier to stomach not getting a mech, if it means that we hasten research for signs in general and stave off unwanted drawbacks.
also: hunger has a penchant for dramatically staring at the moon
When looking at it like that, it becomes much easier to stomach not getting a mech, if it means that we hasten research for signs in general and stave off unwanted drawbacks.
also: hunger has a penchant for dramatically staring at the moon
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
A King for All Seasons provides a similar improvement to our well of Praxis techniques but does so in a way that doesn't require us to wear someone else as a backpack. While the gattai currently only makes us stronger, for how long will that remain true? Gisena's Retinue effect allows her to keep up for a while but the same can't be said of Adorie. With the escalation of threats the Apocryphal causes, how long will a Rank 10 remain relevant?
As for the linearity, it's absolutely amazing but it's also something we could likely achieve with further Praxis development. It's not like Artful Thorn is the limit of its power. And of course, the other benefits of the Refinement of Purpose are also wild, turning willpower into a true god stat. All we need is an equivalent to the Echo for that stat and we're pretty much set for life. Even without that, just getting Refinement of Battle or something would result in ruin pretty much solving all of our problems by itself entirely automatically, assuming the offensive multiplication applies to the other functions of it.
It even scales up!
As for the linearity, it's absolutely amazing but it's also something we could likely achieve with further Praxis development. It's not like Artful Thorn is the limit of its power. And of course, the other benefits of the Refinement of Purpose are also wild, turning willpower into a true god stat. All we need is an equivalent to the Echo for that stat and we're pretty much set for life. Even without that, just getting Refinement of Battle or something would result in ruin pretty much solving all of our problems by itself entirely automatically, assuming the offensive multiplication applies to the other functions of it.
It even scales up!
Well, I'm convinced.
[X] Myth and Legend
Now what is the thread consensus for Pillars time? Comfy vacation or grind for more power?
[X] Myth and Legend
Now what is the thread consensus for Pillars time? Comfy vacation or grind for more power?
Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Updating vote with my preferred condition. I think the long-term disadvantages of Foresleep is getting glossed over and feel that Grievous Exertion matches the plot more directly, since:
- Hunger is leaking essence from his sword, which aptly describes Exertion's debuffs.
- Adorie is trying to patch Hunger's overdraft up which Myth & Legend does.
- Hunger's reduced Mental Stability sums up the consequences of our recent decisions pretty well, and segues appropriately with the planned Vacation Time.
[X] Myth and Legend
[X] Grievous Exertion
- Hunger is leaking essence from his sword, which aptly describes Exertion's debuffs.
- Adorie is trying to patch Hunger's overdraft up which Myth & Legend does.
- Hunger's reduced Mental Stability sums up the consequences of our recent decisions pretty well, and segues appropriately with the planned Vacation Time.
[X] Myth and Legend
[X] Grievous Exertion
Erm, if Haeliel fumbles and accidentally kills Hunger, doesn't it say she'll simply Isekai him in another universe with a new Geas task? Admittedly it's still a minus point in terms of narrative since it abandons all the progress we've accomplished in the Voyaging Realm. Also unsure if our companions would be brought along with Hunger.
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For short term power, Myth also just doesn't eat a Condition. That's a pretty big plus that is not immediately obvious if you just go "oh it boosts Praxis and Thorn and Rank and Stats and it debuffs enemy Rank". So it's not just Myth vs King or Armor, but more Myth vs King or Armor with Grievous Exertion. Depending on how much we suffer after Restoration, of course.
It's unlocked by Feat: Saber, which itself is both rare and unlocked by Feat: Crown. As such we can assume that it's the kind of value that is not easy to replicate.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
We can do a few things:
Guaranteed physical healing, level-appropriate enemies, do things with our Curses significantly more mitigated. Notably, we can look for specific enemies, which helps for getting something like Feat: Orb, or perhaps TKSA or Slice Fate.
It's great for morale, and once more we can optimize our Progression curve.
Anagathic serums for Letrizia, who probably has had some part of her lifespan sheared off by her time in Versch, as well as general life-extension for everyone.
Helps builds with intrinsic scaling. This is one of the reasons why I want to get Accursed Implement, so that we can buy Ruling Ring and absolutely cream it in the hyperbolic PIllars chamber. Mental and physical health is always a plus, and the alchemy bonus is definitely amazing for Gisena's artifice research as well as overall signs research. Signs are already heavily tied to our cloak, so I imagine a realm made of the same stuff has some symbolic potency. It's also why I'm not very worried about not getting signs fast enough.
Something to consider. We might get too lazy, but honestly with how much of a determinator Hunger has recently been, some rest and relaxation might be a good thing. Since this quote has been said, we've gotten some pluses to Willpower and mental contamination from the grim relentless 4bear himself, so I'm not all that worried.
This was in response to Strange9 stating that we can use Pillars to spawn fish. So, probably an implicit yes to the fact that we can spawn fish. If we get Fisher King, then we get +50% stats to taking down fish (meaning we can summon fish that are 1.5 times physically stronger than what we would normally fight) as well as increased chance of proccing Huntress' Moon.
- Location
- 1
Something else to mention: Signs can be unlocked by dumping loads of mythic platinum into the Evening Sky. 6 and 7, with small enough quantities of mythical Platinum that we could've made and dumped it in before the Armament fight, although at great cost. So once we're inside Pillars, which can create fields of mystical reagents freely and this can very explicitely be consumed and have benefits maintained... Mythical platinum doesn't sound to me like a high-enough tier material that Pillars wouldn't be able to make it. So, we can unlock 6th and 7th Signs as soon as Pillars procs, no problem.
(this isn't an argument for my vote, it's just a relevant thing I brought up for the sake of bringing it up, and then made a vote for reasons that are mostly unrelated (though this Is a significant reason for my dismissing the Apocryphal Armament choice.).
[X] Myth and Legend.
Yeah, that's what I meant. Hunger himself would survive in some form, but we don't know how the isekai process works or what the odds of empowerment failing are, and it'd sever all preexisting plot threads. Companions would likely be left behind, though do note that we've got unspecified stage one mitigation for the Geas so we might be able to take one along for the ride by retroactively specifying that.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
In an effort to make myself more on board with Armoury of Night, I tried to think up some cool shit it enables.
1. Basically ends the War before it can really get started
Man, the strength of four Armaments acting in concert is not something the powerbalance of the Human Sphere is capable of calculating. Taking out Procyon probably really screwed Republic pretty thoroughly. Even in their worst estimations, I don't think they would've believed that Procyon would fail to escape from Verschlengorge. If we can lure Fervenweirr into the VR and deal with him, even with whatever deal the Republic has with the Sovereigns, it's almost certainly not enough.
If that's not the case, we can always work on some kind of instant movement tech to pull a blitzkreig of the Republic Armaments. If taking out three of them isn't enough to knock the Republic out of the war, we've got bigger problems. Even if the Apocryphal props them up, that's effort its not spending on fucking with us directly and forcing the four Armaments to be within reinforcement range massively constrains their possibilities.
And four is if Letrzia is piloting it. If it's Hunger, that estimate is probably a fair bit higher, at least once we become accustomed to piloting. This is saying nothing about further improvements we could provide like Refinement of Battle or the potential effects a Praehihr pilot might have on the thing.
2. Automatically completes our conquest
With the support of Archduchess Letrizia and the fucking yawning maw of oblivion, I don't think anybody would really bother contesting Hunger assuming the Imperial Throne. We'll probably just foist the work off onto Adorie and Gisena in all honesty. The main problem is how we're relatively unprepared to actually keep the Throne in the face of whatever bullshit the Apocryphal will throw at us, either in terms of power (if we don't use the Empire as ablative armour) or experience (if we do). It would be a lot easier if we ended up grabbing Sword in the Stone beforehand; we need to get Fisher King anyway.
3. Allows Hunger to remain relatively out of the limelight.
If people are focusing on Verschlengorge's new and extremely bling form, they're not going to be paying as much attention to the mage her pilot picked up along the way, at least without divination or substantial reconnaissance. Even somewhat mitigating the public attention we'd otherwise receive would be fairly useful depending on what we're deciding to do.
4. Giant Robot
Fuck yeah.
1. Basically ends the War before it can really get started
Man, the strength of four Armaments acting in concert is not something the powerbalance of the Human Sphere is capable of calculating. Taking out Procyon probably really screwed Republic pretty thoroughly. Even in their worst estimations, I don't think they would've believed that Procyon would fail to escape from Verschlengorge. If we can lure Fervenweirr into the VR and deal with him, even with whatever deal the Republic has with the Sovereigns, it's almost certainly not enough.
If that's not the case, we can always work on some kind of instant movement tech to pull a blitzkreig of the Republic Armaments. If taking out three of them isn't enough to knock the Republic out of the war, we've got bigger problems. Even if the Apocryphal props them up, that's effort its not spending on fucking with us directly and forcing the four Armaments to be within reinforcement range massively constrains their possibilities.
And four is if Letrzia is piloting it. If it's Hunger, that estimate is probably a fair bit higher, at least once we become accustomed to piloting. This is saying nothing about further improvements we could provide like Refinement of Battle or the potential effects a Praehihr pilot might have on the thing.
2. Automatically completes our conquest
With the support of Archduchess Letrizia and the fucking yawning maw of oblivion, I don't think anybody would really bother contesting Hunger assuming the Imperial Throne. We'll probably just foist the work off onto Adorie and Gisena in all honesty. The main problem is how we're relatively unprepared to actually keep the Throne in the face of whatever bullshit the Apocryphal will throw at us, either in terms of power (if we don't use the Empire as ablative armour) or experience (if we do). It would be a lot easier if we ended up grabbing Sword in the Stone beforehand; we need to get Fisher King anyway.
3. Allows Hunger to remain relatively out of the limelight.
If people are focusing on Verschlengorge's new and extremely bling form, they're not going to be paying as much attention to the mage her pilot picked up along the way, at least without divination or substantial reconnaissance. Even somewhat mitigating the public attention we'd otherwise receive would be fairly useful depending on what we're deciding to do.
4. Giant Robot
Fuck yeah.
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