A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Rihaku
The Internet
Myth and Legend certainly gives Hunger more personal power than, say, Armory of Night enhancing Versch, or King For All Seasons without Hour of Reckoning active. Power enough to reliably fight Armaments head-on is a huge upgrade from his current position.
Adorie will choose Hunger as Champion.
- Location
- US
So, a Hero's Reward is currently relatively nebulous in placement compared to these. Where would you put it, roughly, in terms of immediate power?
- Location
- 1
I think it's, like... 'training rank without risk doesn't get the hunger debuff'
Yes. Something else that should be mentioned, which I think rihaku is implying but I'm not sure is remembered in general, is that this is connected to the destiny rhyme:
"Treasures numbering three,
Ought hero's panoply be.
Crown, Saber and Orb,
Shield, Symbol and Sword,
Blade, Mantle and Ring;
Aloft to murder a king."
We already have Blade, Mantle, and Ring. Since we got Core Panoply from them, but the Crown-Saber-Orb advancements are still showing up, it is probable the combination of another set will grant another instance of the Special Advancement, Trinity, which can... well, Threefold seems inconsistent with Core Panoply's whole shtick, so it probably won't be on the list. maybe there'll be new options? but the A Promise Kept option can probably be considered as a general area of how strong that'd be.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
It's a mystery box. I think the point is that we don't whether it's more power or more potential focused until we pick it.
[X] Lessened
Going with this for now because Arete is really the only downside here when we are about to go into the Realm of Evening for picks pinata.
Going with this for now because Arete is really the only downside here when we are about to go into the Realm of Evening for picks pinata.
- Location
- Eugene OR US
So we have three beautiful woman (yes the accursed counts as a woman) which of them do we Desire to draw closer too?
Dear god, all of these options are so, so shiny.
I think I'm being blinded by the sheer value on offer here. It's a toss-up between the Haeliel and Adorie options for me right now, the latter of which is very tempting since we essentially avoid the consequences of this fight (and possibly allowing us to employ more dangerous tactics like this with lesser risks in more overwhelming encounters) but Hero Explosion is just such a strong ability.
Plus, it might even surprise big sis Haeliel! We'd only be like 150 Arete away from getting her Committed! What a steal!
Got to think on it more though.
I think I'm being blinded by the sheer value on offer here. It's a toss-up between the Haeliel and Adorie options for me right now, the latter of which is very tempting since we essentially avoid the consequences of this fight (and possibly allowing us to employ more dangerous tactics like this with lesser risks in more overwhelming encounters) but Hero Explosion is just such a strong ability.
Plus, it might even surprise big sis Haeliel! We'd only be like 150 Arete away from getting her Committed! What a steal!
Got to think on it more though.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
OK, so.
My first impression is that Accursed Implement is the "SAVE" Choice. A mere 24 Arete (ahahaha that phrase), lets us buy another EFB within Pillars. However, TBH I'm not really seeing any reason to take this over the others, which are a lot of unique opportunities compared to just finishing Fisher King.
A King For All Seasons is just a truckload of power, and it gets Tenfold Echo which makes me happy since I predicted that. This build also specifically does more Voyaging Realm stuff, for anyone who was unhappy with us leaving the VR.
Armory of Night either gets us super Verschengorge or The Apocryphal Armament. Notably, Super Vershcengorge allows us to take Foresleep or Grevious Exertion and not really care because we have a 4x power Armament to fight for us. Also suddenly makes Letrizia into the most relevant companion, more powerful then Hunger himself.
A Hero's Reward is a mystery box. That costs 50 Arete, 5 picks, and Heroic Progression. It's the most expensive advancement in the entire quest so far (unless we're counting Committed Haeliel, which I don't because we were never going to get that. This is in reach, if only because we did a stupid). The exact effects being unknown makes me like this a bit less, but it can't possibly be bad. And more Haeliel screentime is a difficult to acquire thing.
Myth and Legend is really powerful, but ties a significant amount of that power to Adorie. However, it also negates the complication, which is worth quite a bit. And getting linear-cost Artful Thorns is strong combat power even without Adorie around, so it's not as reliant on companions as Armory of Night builds.
My first impression is that Accursed Implement is the "SAVE" Choice. A mere 24 Arete (ahahaha that phrase), lets us buy another EFB within Pillars. However, TBH I'm not really seeing any reason to take this over the others, which are a lot of unique opportunities compared to just finishing Fisher King.
A King For All Seasons is just a truckload of power, and it gets Tenfold Echo which makes me happy since I predicted that. This build also specifically does more Voyaging Realm stuff, for anyone who was unhappy with us leaving the VR.
Armory of Night either gets us super Verschengorge or The Apocryphal Armament. Notably, Super Vershcengorge allows us to take Foresleep or Grevious Exertion and not really care because we have a 4x power Armament to fight for us. Also suddenly makes Letrizia into the most relevant companion, more powerful then Hunger himself.
A Hero's Reward is a mystery box. That costs 50 Arete, 5 picks, and Heroic Progression. It's the most expensive advancement in the entire quest so far (unless we're counting Committed Haeliel, which I don't because we were never going to get that. This is in reach, if only because we did a stupid). The exact effects being unknown makes me like this a bit less, but it can't possibly be bad. And more Haeliel screentime is a difficult to acquire thing.
Myth and Legend is really powerful, but ties a significant amount of that power to Adorie. However, it also negates the complication, which is worth quite a bit. And getting linear-cost Artful Thorns is strong combat power even without Adorie around, so it's not as reliant on companions as Armory of Night builds.
Last edited:
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
I would like to encourage people to not vote Lessened while the high-arete options are still on the table. Lessened unfairly suppresses the high arete options by making them essentially impossible to afford.
Question, what happens if the absurd happens and the Thread manages to make it all the way to 57 Arete? And then decides to take the 7-Arete-0-picks variant of Tenfold Echo rather than the 0-Arete-3-picks variant? ((I realize that this isn't happening because we'd need to generate 12 Arete, but I'm curious!))
What would Hunger spend the 3 spare Picks on? ((... Feat: Saber?
xD For 3 Picks and another 12 goddamn Arete. Because we can definitely generate not just 12 but 24 Arete in one turn, yes...))Also: what exactly does the Heroic Upgrade do? Since, it'll be picked to go on any one given Advancement...
Question, does this sharing also include the "-.5 Rank Penalty" of the 'Destruction' ability? Or is that unnecessary, as anybody opposing Adorie's ally Hunger would count as opposing the family of Mirellyian?
Also also, question... Is the "pick one Champion" permanent or can it be switched around?
Because, y'know... It occurs to me that we don't have to pick Hunger... We can pick somebody else to boosted to get Rank 10 and +10 All Stats.
Like Aobaru or Gisena or Letrizia or Aeira. Aobaru would make for an amusing pick, as he'd then be the Hero of the Voyaging Realm and the Champion of Realm of Myth's Nilfel too.
This has a lot of interesting and intriguing synergies. I really want to take this, because of that. (Also, we get Feat: Saber, which means if we get Feat: Orb in the future, we can get whatever Special Advancement comes from that! Hooray!)
I mean, hell... this means that Gisena and Adorie working together to do research, would be able to unlock Empyreal Signs and Foremost stuff.
And probably means that them working together, would mean the two of them can find a good way for Hunger to take mages out of the Voyaging Realm safer faster. (Meanwhile, Hunger can heal up Verschlengorge and/or train Aobaru.)
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
There's a lot to read and review here but I tried Condensing the Blurbs for People. I'm not sure how precisely to Parse Sword in the Stone though at the moment.
1. Accursed Implement(24 Arete)
Attain Fisher King and Feat: Saber
.625 Rank For Hunger(I'm assuming this is the conjunction of Saber/Fisher King)
10 Points Accursed Favor
+50% to all Stats for Literal fishing only
+50% Rank Growth
+1 Wits
+1 Int
+2 Wisdom
Double Proc Rate and Mitigation effect for Huntress Moon on Fish-Based Targets
Grail Keeper: At any time while within a land he rules the wielder may take on the Decimator's Affliction into himself. For the duration, the Decimator's Affliction merely poisons the land, rendering it barren and and its residents infertile, rather than claiming lives. Territories not under the wielder's rule are not affected by this mitigation. This causes him to suffer the Affliction of Leprosy and the Mutilating Affliction for the duration.
2. A King For All Seasons(50 Arete?)
Attain Refinement of Purpose and Sword in The Stone, combined with Tenfold Echo and an Echo of the Forebear(50 Arete?)
20 Willpower
11 Agi
11 Might(Strength and Constitution)
+300% to the Value of all Willpower +s
Praxis Endurance Scales with Willpower when this is beneficial(Don't expect more Artful Thorns Though)
Soupes up ADS Power of Ruin Defense and Refinement of Quickness Massively
Our Sword in the Ground makes our territory into a Shangri-La shielded by Hunger's Rank/Luck
Half the Agi and Might from Echo type advancements are turned into Wits/Int(AGI), and Willpower/Wisdom(Might) for Rulership Purposes while our Sword is in the Ground
When the Sword is taken out of the Ground in response to the unforgivable actions of an External Aggressor, OAF is doubled.
If Slain, reality will conspire to ensure Hunger's eventual Resurrection(This may require the Double OAF clause to be in play). The blade will ensure Hunger's Territory keeps benefiting from Sword in the Stone while He's gone.
3. Armory of Night(52 Arete)
Sixth and Seventh Signs. Upgrade Letrezia's Armament(Ability to engage 4 peer level armaments simultaneously) or create the Apocryphal Armament for Hunger's Use(Considerable Utility Potential)
4. A Hero's Reward(50 Arete and the Heroic Advancement)
Hunger is now a Chosen One. Gain 3 Haeliel Points. The Terminator's target is now Hunger. Chance of Death and getting Isekaied to a new setting with different Geas Task.
5. Myth and Legend(47 Arete)
Adorie Independent benefits for Hunger:
.5 Rank
+++Agi, ++ Might
Artful Thorns form is restricted to thrusts but scaling is reduced to Linear and power is upgraded(Pierce Through)
Difficult to Classify:
+++Adorie Loyalty
Adorie Benefits:
Adorie is Rank 10 and gains 10 points to all stats.
Adorie unlocks nebulously Defined Preservation Powers. Immediate implications are protection against lesser shattering blow and below tier conditions and Octupled Praxis Endurance when Hunger is near Adorie.
Anyone who opposes Adorie, even indirectly Suffers a 0.5 Astral Rank Penalty
She can share the Rank and Stat boosts with a Champion
Adorie heavily mitigates or Removes our Condition
Adorie can help us more with sign Research.
With Research, Adorie and Gisena can become impossible for Armaments to Directly Attack
Conditions(Mitigated or Removed if Myth or Legend is taken):
1. Lessened: Lose 10 Arete and Surrender next 5 picks. Terrible pick in conjunction with Hero's Reward, Armory of Night, or King for All Seasons.
2. Grievous Exertion: -20% All Stats. -2 Rank, -80% Praxis endurance, --Mental Stability for 1 month. Realmtime counts but Apocrypha is going to exploit this almost certainly.
3. Overefined: No Praxis for the Next Year
4. Least Foresleep: Affliction of Slumber for one year, half strength for another year, no mitigation permitted. Get trustworthy friends.
1. Accursed Implement(24 Arete)
Attain Fisher King and Feat: Saber
.625 Rank For Hunger(I'm assuming this is the conjunction of Saber/Fisher King)
10 Points Accursed Favor
+50% to all Stats for Literal fishing only
+50% Rank Growth
+1 Wits
+1 Int
+2 Wisdom
Double Proc Rate and Mitigation effect for Huntress Moon on Fish-Based Targets
Grail Keeper: At any time while within a land he rules the wielder may take on the Decimator's Affliction into himself. For the duration, the Decimator's Affliction merely poisons the land, rendering it barren and and its residents infertile, rather than claiming lives. Territories not under the wielder's rule are not affected by this mitigation. This causes him to suffer the Affliction of Leprosy and the Mutilating Affliction for the duration.
2. A King For All Seasons(50 Arete?)
Attain Refinement of Purpose and Sword in The Stone, combined with Tenfold Echo and an Echo of the Forebear(50 Arete?)
20 Willpower
11 Agi
11 Might(Strength and Constitution)
+300% to the Value of all Willpower +s
Praxis Endurance Scales with Willpower when this is beneficial(Don't expect more Artful Thorns Though)
Soupes up ADS Power of Ruin Defense and Refinement of Quickness Massively
Our Sword in the Ground makes our territory into a Shangri-La shielded by Hunger's Rank/Luck
Half the Agi and Might from Echo type advancements are turned into Wits/Int(AGI), and Willpower/Wisdom(Might) for Rulership Purposes while our Sword is in the Ground
When the Sword is taken out of the Ground in response to the unforgivable actions of an External Aggressor, OAF is doubled.
If Slain, reality will conspire to ensure Hunger's eventual Resurrection(This may require the Double OAF clause to be in play). The blade will ensure Hunger's Territory keeps benefiting from Sword in the Stone while He's gone.
3. Armory of Night(52 Arete)
Sixth and Seventh Signs. Upgrade Letrezia's Armament(Ability to engage 4 peer level armaments simultaneously) or create the Apocryphal Armament for Hunger's Use(Considerable Utility Potential)
4. A Hero's Reward(50 Arete and the Heroic Advancement)
Hunger is now a Chosen One. Gain 3 Haeliel Points. The Terminator's target is now Hunger. Chance of Death and getting Isekaied to a new setting with different Geas Task.
5. Myth and Legend(47 Arete)
Adorie Independent benefits for Hunger:
.5 Rank
+++Agi, ++ Might
Artful Thorns form is restricted to thrusts but scaling is reduced to Linear and power is upgraded(Pierce Through)
Difficult to Classify:
+++Adorie Loyalty
Adorie Benefits:
Adorie is Rank 10 and gains 10 points to all stats.
Adorie unlocks nebulously Defined Preservation Powers. Immediate implications are protection against lesser shattering blow and below tier conditions and Octupled Praxis Endurance when Hunger is near Adorie.
Anyone who opposes Adorie, even indirectly Suffers a 0.5 Astral Rank Penalty
She can share the Rank and Stat boosts with a Champion
Adorie heavily mitigates or Removes our Condition
Adorie can help us more with sign Research.
With Research, Adorie and Gisena can become impossible for Armaments to Directly Attack
Conditions(Mitigated or Removed if Myth or Legend is taken):
1. Lessened: Lose 10 Arete and Surrender next 5 picks. Terrible pick in conjunction with Hero's Reward, Armory of Night, or King for All Seasons.
2. Grievous Exertion: -20% All Stats. -2 Rank, -80% Praxis endurance, --Mental Stability for 1 month. Realmtime counts but Apocrypha is going to exploit this almost certainly.
3. Overefined: No Praxis for the Next Year
4. Least Foresleep: Affliction of Slumber for one year, half strength for another year, no mitigation permitted. Get trustworthy friends.
- Location
- Pindorama
Myth and Legend might be the most relevant upgrade for fighting at this league considering how much we relied on the Praxis to give us the offense and defense our Stats lacked. Being able to use the Praxis 8 times more and cheaper Artful Thorn on top of that is huge if it really means we can fight Armaments head on with it.
What a shame, is there no way to change her mind? The most important realms this would give a boost in we already surpass; I legitimately think it would be a better investment given to someone else. Might chang vote thanks to this, depending.
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
A note for Over-Refined: Refinement of Quickness has been a major component of Hunger's fighting style since he acquired it and even more so with Adorie's help, so losing access to it will probably hamper him significantly.
Speaking of things that amuse me, Adorie winning through Myths or Birdsie going on a rampage and generating 28 arete (Adorie advancement is 0 picks) will result in Aobaru's terminator getting slapped with a -0.5 Rank penalty out of nowhere.
Just a seemingly random bolt of "fuck you in particular" falling on some dude somewhere in the Voyaging Realm.
If luck is particularly good, it hits him midcombat.
Just a seemingly random bolt of "fuck you in particular" falling on some dude somewhere in the Voyaging Realm.
If luck is particularly good, it hits him midcombat.
Last edited:
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
I'm going to sell my vote for this. Place your bids!
(HPOH update incoming; I lost my draft for the other thing.)
(HPOH update incoming; I lost my draft for the other thing.)
Aabcehmu
Confusion as a Natural State of Being
- Location
- Chicago, IL
- Pronouns
- Any/All
Will you accept another marker from me?
[X] Armory of Night
[X] Grievous Exertion
Just get in the robot, Hunger.
[X] Grievous Exertion
Just get in the robot, Hunger.
"For all things, a culmination. "
Such a powerful line. Honestly, the more I'm reading it, Myth and Legend is such a fitting advancement to acquire in this moment and is great on both a narrative and mechanical level.
But, Haeliel! But, FOUR-Headed Versch! All these options are such great value.
Even Accursed Implement is super cool, so long as we manage to somehow get Feat: Orb. Refinement of Purpose is also great but we really need to acquire more Praxis techniques or Refinements to make it worth it.
Also, I'm guessing that Pierce Through causes Artful Thorn to become a thrusting-based attack in exchange for the cost decrease, huh?
Such a powerful line. Honestly, the more I'm reading it, Myth and Legend is such a fitting advancement to acquire in this moment and is great on both a narrative and mechanical level.
But, Haeliel! But, FOUR-Headed Versch! All these options are such great value.
Even Accursed Implement is super cool, so long as we manage to somehow get Feat: Orb. Refinement of Purpose is also great but we really need to acquire more Praxis techniques or Refinements to make it worth it.
Also, I'm guessing that Pierce Through causes Artful Thorn to become a thrusting-based attack in exchange for the cost decrease, huh?