Birdsie
Sharp Talons Cleave The Worthy
- Location
- Poland
Not for the sake of the thrill. I'm not some kind of adrenaline junkie. I'll say it in simple words: I'd rather Hunger die than lose himself again.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
... Is it possible for "His Shroud Is Down" to result in a scenario where Procyon is damaged enough it'll be delayed in breaking through the Walls of Myth by hours -- long enough for Deathly Star to recharge -- but not so weakened that Hunger can beat it in a straight-on slugging machine? Leading to Hunger alpha-striking, and then withdrawing under Aeira's stealth ability. To then later do it again. And thus wear down Procyon that way.
It'd be amusing and pleasing if we just... whittled down Procyon that way. By attacking while buffed by stealth thanks to Aeira, and then regrouping back to the defenses of the Walls of Myth. Buying time to recharge Deathly Star again and again. And attacking from stealth each time.
"[Artful Thorn] - When this rune is executed, briefly afterwards the practitioner's attack is guaranteed to cause a truly meaningful wound if it lands, no matter the scale of the enemy or the inapplicability of his weapon. Even a beast the size of a multiverse will be equivalently impaired to a human's losing of an eye or hand. At this level, only works on coherent enemies (can target the Rotbeast, but not "all Rotspawn"). Increasingly draining."
If we focus the first few usages of Artful Thorn on Procyon's "eye" equivalent -- its sensory abilities, basically -- then maybe we can blind it in the first attack. And then, thus, be capable of re-establishing stealth and retreating. And attacking another time still with the benefit of stealth, because it'll be blinded afterwards.
Alternatively, is it possible for Hunger to defeat Procyon... only to find that they're totally willing to call in the second Armament, to finish the fight?
Especially if Hunger uses Shattering Blow to do it. Since, with Hunger so thoroughly weakened... would anyone be capable of defeating the Lunatic Armament if it came?
Or worse, what if somebody -- presumably Verschlengorge, probably -- is strong enough to fend it off... but this just results in them activating the Berserk Mode of Ferveinwerr? Because they're really willing to win?
Because, like... what if that happens in the Follow Through scenario? What if Hunger defeats Procyon, the Plenary Armament... and then they just call in Ferveinweirr, the Lunatic Armament, anyway? What the hell do we do then? (I mean, that means our Defensive Wish is getting used, but... yeah. Not great. Also, we lose tons of our Advancements, presumably even a bunch of our EFBs too. So. Just one 5-pick advancement and a Heroic Upgrade doesn't seem enough to make up for that.)
It'd be amusing and pleasing if we just... whittled down Procyon that way. By attacking while buffed by stealth thanks to Aeira, and then regrouping back to the defenses of the Walls of Myth. Buying time to recharge Deathly Star again and again. And attacking from stealth each time.
"[Artful Thorn] - When this rune is executed, briefly afterwards the practitioner's attack is guaranteed to cause a truly meaningful wound if it lands, no matter the scale of the enemy or the inapplicability of his weapon. Even a beast the size of a multiverse will be equivalently impaired to a human's losing of an eye or hand. At this level, only works on coherent enemies (can target the Rotbeast, but not "all Rotspawn"). Increasingly draining."
If we focus the first few usages of Artful Thorn on Procyon's "eye" equivalent -- its sensory abilities, basically -- then maybe we can blind it in the first attack. And then, thus, be capable of re-establishing stealth and retreating. And attacking another time still with the benefit of stealth, because it'll be blinded afterwards.
Alternatively, is it possible for Hunger to defeat Procyon... only to find that they're totally willing to call in the second Armament, to finish the fight?
Especially if Hunger uses Shattering Blow to do it. Since, with Hunger so thoroughly weakened... would anyone be capable of defeating the Lunatic Armament if it came?
Or worse, what if somebody -- presumably Verschlengorge, probably -- is strong enough to fend it off... but this just results in them activating the Berserk Mode of Ferveinwerr? Because they're really willing to win?
Because, like... what if that happens in the Follow Through scenario? What if Hunger defeats Procyon, the Plenary Armament... and then they just call in Ferveinweirr, the Lunatic Armament, anyway? What the hell do we do then? (I mean, that means our Defensive Wish is getting used, but... yeah. Not great. Also, we lose tons of our Advancements, presumably even a bunch of our EFBs too. So. Just one 5-pick advancement and a Heroic Upgrade doesn't seem enough to make up for that.)
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Communication in the Voyaging Realm is pretty hard and losing even one Armament is a catastrophic loss of military potential; risking another is probably not on the docket. They'd probably move to negotiations instead of direct violence, which is much easier to handle, especially if we're willing to ransom back Procyon (for suitably extortionate terms). Besides, we can delay then, heal ourselves through Pillars, grind some more and then kick Fervenweirr's ass. Or potentially subvert its pilot, if they're as malleable as they seem from the description.
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But that's same logic which had us not get 6th Sign. It's entirely possible that Hunger will end up sundering himself anyway. Just as it would be better to lose that Rank on our own terms when we were going to burn it anyway, it would be better than at least do the Sundering in somewhat controlled manner.
I don't see why would we take this risk when we really don't have to.
[X] His Shroud Was Down
Well time to vote seriously.
Well time to vote seriously.
Also, remembered another thing. The ring Hunger is pretty darn near unbreakable, right, and this element was used in the Vanreir fight. Any chance that we could pull that maneuver off again? That Procyon has some attacks, or blasts, that we would be capable of blocking -- or parrying or redirecting -- with the ring Hunger?
... I wonder if either Verschlengorge or Procyon can be fed Mythic Platinum, to heal or empower them. Not precisely relevant here and now, but. (If we theoretically defeat Procyon, and need a way to restore it, then maybe stuffing it with Mythic Platinum would work, as we can't heal it with our Bloodcasting. Alternatively, maybe Gisena can work on it, with the Artifice facet.) Reason I ask about Verschlengorge is because it's the Devouring Armament. So hey, maybe it can eat it. ... Also, just remembered: I'm sort of sad that we weren't able to feed the Armament Fish to Verschlengorge. It was a proto-Armament, so maybe it could have gained something from it. Or... did we already feed the fish to Versch? I can't remember, at this point.
Hm. Something to consider -- what are the customs of accepting the surrender of an Armament pilot, or of capturing an Armament? I ask because, well... Doom of the Tyrant. Hunger may not acknowledge or realize something important. So that'd be awkward. Or, hell, maybe there's a custom ('custom') of "never fully destroying an Armament all the way, no matter what." A custom that Hunger wouldn't follow, because he'd be fighting to win and survive.
Finally... Any chance that Bloodcasting or Adorie's power can be used to defend against Procyon's Plenary Band? Or (the bloodcasting, I mean) can be used to target the pilot directly? Maybe we can use Refinement of Quickness (plus Artful Thorn and/or Deathly Star?) to carve a path through the Armament and to the pilot, and thus put the pilot 'in range' of our Ring, and then use our bloodcasting. Yeah yeah I know, I know, slim hope, but. =/
[X] His Shroud Was Down
They might decide to not call it quits. I mean, if they're out to conquer the Empire entire, or are playing totally for keeps, then... they're not going to stop until and unless all of the Empire's Armaments are defeated or neutralized or surrendered. And equally it could mean they're willing to lose an Armament or two in the gamble.
It's also possible that their communication methods are Armament-based. Meaning either Procyon would be able to call out an emergency last-minute transmission (or the communication system going down would be the signal that something bad just happened to Procyon and thus backup is needed), or Fervenweirr is able to use its own Rank and Shroud and stuff to be able to maintain contact with the main army. Alternatively, maybe the Republic has methods to detect and sense Procyon from far far away, due to its Plenary Band; and so if it ever dims or goes down, they know Procyon is horribly wounded, and so would automatically launch a rescue mission.
(Finally... what if Ferveinwerr is acting under the Geas of Lunacy, rather than the Doom of Lunacy? What if that was the "and pure luck" part of the "the pilot got chosen by nepotism and pure luck" background? >< What if they're the pilot because they were found to be the only person who could use it at full potential, without needing to go into berserker mode. Not terribly likely, but I suppose it's a really bad possibility to keep in mind. ... Hm. Thinking about it, that totally sounds like a potential Apocrphyal proc. 'The Lunatic Armament and/or its pilot makes a breakthrough, and lowers its Curse to the Geas of Lunacy rather than the Doom of Lunacy. And thereby is free to act at 100% power...' Anyway, again, doubt this is the case, but I suppose it's something to keep in mind for a 'How might the Apocryphal Curse decide to fuck us over now?' hypothetical for future reference.)
... I wonder if either Verschlengorge or Procyon can be fed Mythic Platinum, to heal or empower them. Not precisely relevant here and now, but. (If we theoretically defeat Procyon, and need a way to restore it, then maybe stuffing it with Mythic Platinum would work, as we can't heal it with our Bloodcasting. Alternatively, maybe Gisena can work on it, with the Artifice facet.) Reason I ask about Verschlengorge is because it's the Devouring Armament. So hey, maybe it can eat it. ... Also, just remembered: I'm sort of sad that we weren't able to feed the Armament Fish to Verschlengorge. It was a proto-Armament, so maybe it could have gained something from it. Or... did we already feed the fish to Versch? I can't remember, at this point.
Hm. Something to consider -- what are the customs of accepting the surrender of an Armament pilot, or of capturing an Armament? I ask because, well... Doom of the Tyrant. Hunger may not acknowledge or realize something important. So that'd be awkward. Or, hell, maybe there's a custom ('custom') of "never fully destroying an Armament all the way, no matter what." A custom that Hunger wouldn't follow, because he'd be fighting to win and survive.
Finally... Any chance that Bloodcasting or Adorie's power can be used to defend against Procyon's Plenary Band? Or (the bloodcasting, I mean) can be used to target the pilot directly? Maybe we can use Refinement of Quickness (plus Artful Thorn and/or Deathly Star?) to carve a path through the Armament and to the pilot, and thus put the pilot 'in range' of our Ring, and then use our bloodcasting. Yeah yeah I know, I know, slim hope, but. =/
[X] His Shroud Was Down
Eh, that's still probably worth considering though. As we'd be pretty screwed if that's the case. So. Better to not go for the option that winds up with us totally drained and unable to keep fighting, if that's the case.
They might decide to not call it quits. I mean, if they're out to conquer the Empire entire, or are playing totally for keeps, then... they're not going to stop until and unless all of the Empire's Armaments are defeated or neutralized or surrendered. And equally it could mean they're willing to lose an Armament or two in the gamble.
It's also possible that their communication methods are Armament-based. Meaning either Procyon would be able to call out an emergency last-minute transmission (or the communication system going down would be the signal that something bad just happened to Procyon and thus backup is needed), or Fervenweirr is able to use its own Rank and Shroud and stuff to be able to maintain contact with the main army. Alternatively, maybe the Republic has methods to detect and sense Procyon from far far away, due to its Plenary Band; and so if it ever dims or goes down, they know Procyon is horribly wounded, and so would automatically launch a rescue mission.
(Finally... what if Ferveinwerr is acting under the Geas of Lunacy, rather than the Doom of Lunacy? What if that was the "and pure luck" part of the "the pilot got chosen by nepotism and pure luck" background? >< What if they're the pilot because they were found to be the only person who could use it at full potential, without needing to go into berserker mode. Not terribly likely, but I suppose it's a really bad possibility to keep in mind. ... Hm. Thinking about it, that totally sounds like a potential Apocrphyal proc. 'The Lunatic Armament and/or its pilot makes a breakthrough, and lowers its Curse to the Geas of Lunacy rather than the Doom of Lunacy. And thereby is free to act at 100% power...' Anyway, again, doubt this is the case, but I suppose it's something to keep in mind for a 'How might the Apocryphal Curse decide to fuck us over now?' hypothetical for future reference.)
Question is - which item of power would be used next. Cloak of Evening? Tears of Winter? Oriflamme?
Winter sounds cool.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Hmm. On the topic of Hunger and Shattering, I'm curious what it'll do to our Ring. We are one and the same at this point, after all, so it might have some real influence on our Dominions.
And on that note, man, I'm kind of amazed by Gisena. She seems like she's already unlocked two of her Dominions while Hunger's stuck with only one, even if he's taken that beyond its normal limits through Crimson Flare (though you could argue that was an exertion of the Azure). Considering the Azure should still be healing, its pretty impressive all told. With that in mind, do you guys think its possible to find anything in Nilfel that could accelerate the Ring's recovery? Considering we'll likely move into attrition fighting with Shroud or Seize, it might be enough time for her to whip something up if her Ring is healed enough.
And on that note, man, I'm kind of amazed by Gisena. She seems like she's already unlocked two of her Dominions while Hunger's stuck with only one, even if he's taken that beyond its normal limits through Crimson Flare (though you could argue that was an exertion of the Azure). Considering the Azure should still be healing, its pretty impressive all told. With that in mind, do you guys think its possible to find anything in Nilfel that could accelerate the Ring's recovery? Considering we'll likely move into attrition fighting with Shroud or Seize, it might be enough time for her to whip something up if her Ring is healed enough.
RedV
Refuelling
- Location
- Right here
[X} Follow Through
If Hunger is cognizant that he is going to be Shattered, can we communicate important details like our future plans / the existence of the Shard of the Arcanist to our friends first? It might be some way of getting relevant info back even if Hunger doesn't personally identify with it.
If Hunger is cognizant that he is going to be Shattered, can we communicate important details like our future plans / the existence of the Shard of the Arcanist to our friends first? It might be some way of getting relevant info back even if Hunger doesn't personally identify with it.
No 6th sign, ouch. I don't find follow through all that compelling because of the costs, since we're not really at the end of our rope (mainly the defensive wish). Seize the day feels like backpedaling, not to mention we'd have to place the hopes on the pilots good nature. Shroud was down has a pretty good chance, and that's good enough for me. I'm not sure if we can spend Arete at this point, but I'll leave the vote for it just in case.
[X] His Shroud Was Down
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
[X] His Shroud Was Down
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
- Location
- Pindorama
[X] His Shroud Was Down
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
I voted for this outcome originally, but seeing salty debates in thread in always unpleasant. For what it's worth, when I was voting for that option I did not want to rely on the defensive wish nor even count on it's existence, nor the existence of vast amounts of Arete we could use from the honest omake miners. I have voted for the only other time a 5-pick option was offered without any of those things, and the reasons were basically the same. There wasn't any malice to it, it's just what people wanted to see. The majority can easily be wrong, but that's just how a democratic vote works, and Rihaku's system is better than most, even!
I don't actually think it's too late to see the character go in a direction you want, because it's never to late; people change, characters change and indeed, voting tendencies change. The difference in decision-making between AST0 and AST1 is proof enough; even if once again we may have put ourselves in a situation where we'd have to spend our re-rolls. (lul)
This is most likely not the most dangerous fight we have faced, especially with Follow Through as an option. I just wanted to give some prospective here, and say the quest can continue whatever happens here, and I think it will remain enjoyable to most of you. Just keep that in mind.
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
I voted for this outcome originally, but seeing salty debates in thread in always unpleasant. For what it's worth, when I was voting for that option I did not want to rely on the defensive wish nor even count on it's existence, nor the existence of vast amounts of Arete we could use from the honest omake miners. I have voted for the only other time a 5-pick option was offered without any of those things, and the reasons were basically the same. There wasn't any malice to it, it's just what people wanted to see. The majority can easily be wrong, but that's just how a democratic vote works, and Rihaku's system is better than most, even!
I don't actually think it's too late to see the character go in a direction you want, because it's never to late; people change, characters change and indeed, voting tendencies change. The difference in decision-making between AST0 and AST1 is proof enough; even if once again we may have put ourselves in a situation where we'd have to spend our re-rolls. (lul)
This is most likely not the most dangerous fight we have faced, especially with Follow Through as an option. I just wanted to give some prospective here, and say the quest can continue whatever happens here, and I think it will remain enjoyable to most of you. Just keep that in mind.
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
[X] Seize the Day
I think people are underestimating seize. There's a lot of room for negotiation here and I think it leverages the strengths of our party pretty damn well. Moreover, it leverages Hunger's strengths. While the Armament pilot can overrule the commander in the event of him being compromised, I don't think he'd do so casually or they'd just put the guy in charge. With Tower letting us completely control the outward expression of our Charisma, we might be able to socially ambush the guy, especially if we're willing to concede enough. We don't actually need a lot, after all, just one day would be enough for us to probably kick this guy's ass. And I think its possible to achieve some kind of concessions from him when we're hitting him with an effective 100+ CHA with Hunger alone, along with our various mental stat buffs, Rank and Gisena's help.
I think people are underestimating seize. There's a lot of room for negotiation here and I think it leverages the strengths of our party pretty damn well. Moreover, it leverages Hunger's strengths. While the Armament pilot can overrule the commander in the event of him being compromised, I don't think he'd do so casually or they'd just put the guy in charge. With Tower letting us completely control the outward expression of our Charisma, we might be able to socially ambush the guy, especially if we're willing to concede enough. We don't actually need a lot, after all, just one day would be enough for us to probably kick this guy's ass. And I think its possible to achieve some kind of concessions from him when we're hitting him with an effective 100+ CHA with Hunger alone, along with our various mental stat buffs, Rank and Gisena's help.
- Location
- Louisiana
Ho ly Jesus imagine unironically voting for follow through.
[X] His Shroud Was Down
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
[X] His Shroud Was Down
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] His Shroud Was Down
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
[X] Foe-Defeating Stance
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
We decided to lose the chance to resurrect Catherine(the person most dear to Hunger) for Haelial-sempai's favour. Like as far as I am concerned the only way that decision story and narrative wise would be worth it if Hunger decides to Follow Through here and embrace Heroism fully.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
I see it as a sort of a Xanatos-and-Puck thing. Hunger is confident that he will eventually (perhaps not so far from now!) be able to resurrect Catherine himself, if he survives.
Correspondingly, given the kind of life he is now compelled to lead, he must have vast power in order to even keep companions alive- and that includes Catherine.
The favor is for surviving, not because he's forgotten or forsaken Catherine.
Enohthree
Hypersane
Granted Catherine will forever stay dead if we pick Shatter and then just... are unable to hold onto to our bulk of emotions for her.
Hunger right now can not remember his name, his parents, his childhood, the specifics of his life prior to his summoning, and a whole host of other things. He clung fast to what was important as he shaved away like half of his life.
He's gained two months of new important memories since the betrayal.
Even assuming he remembers the important stuff from that period perfectly for free, what more do you want to take from the guy? From the things he thought were precious enough to hold on to even as core parts of his upbringing burned away? Because its going to be more than half of them.
Hunger right now can not remember his name, his parents, his childhood, the specifics of his life prior to his summoning, and a whole host of other things. He clung fast to what was important as he shaved away like half of his life.
He's gained two months of new important memories since the betrayal.
Even assuming he remembers the important stuff from that period perfectly for free, what more do you want to take from the guy? From the things he thought were precious enough to hold on to even as core parts of his upbringing burned away? Because its going to be more than half of them.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Yeah, whatever happens, Hunger is not losing Catherine's memory, he already choose to not sacrifice them last time. He is extremely unlikely to sacrifice them here. They are part of the reason why he wants Vengeance.
For the rest, I don't really care. Like they are not really that important to his characterization and long term goals.
For the rest, I don't really care. Like they are not really that important to his characterization and long term goals.
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Enohthree
Hypersane
Yes Wolfy, I did in fact read the option.
The thing is Hunger has already prioritized only the memories that were important to him the last time he did this. His current pool is basically 'only the important things' + 'two months in the Voyaging Realm'
So, what does he give up when he's already thrown out most of the junk back when he killed the Tyrant?