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A Simple Transaction I

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My point is that grace is pretty much a one and done bonus, not the repeating safety net people keep bringing it up to be. Favor isn't just 5% mitigation though, no one is saying that's worth two wishes, it's 5% mitigation on top of an absolutely massive power boost that sidesteps the downsides of the OaF lineup, that guarantees another even more extreme power up when available. It gives us immense personal strength to deal with the apocrypha proc were all worried about, which we were explicitly warned we would need, and provides a powerful form of progression with OaF III, AND provides additional apocryphal mitigation. It's so expensive because it answers literally all of our problems.
 
One worrying thing about Grace, is when does it actually activate ? Since its written as otherwise insurmountable, does that mean that it only activates if without Grace we would 100% die, meaning it wouldnt activate for a 75%, 80%, or even 99% death chance proc? Since if overcoming it is possible, it IS a heroes' duty to thread the needle.
 
beowolf said:
As for the second half, what I meant is that having Serendipity makes similar forms of mitigation better, which it needs to be even the equal of Grace in that regard, since Grace specifically triggers on procs that beat us. And it needs to, because I'm not entirely convinced the OaF bonus is better than Exalting Aobaru (it definitely isn't in the short term, and I'm less interested in continuing that path than other EFBs).
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Favor is better because we are a Progression-type and Aobaru is not, and we are stronger than him. If the next Apocryphal proc is something that tests our power, we have a much better chance of winning with Favor than with not.
TooSlow said:
If the Apocryphal curse were to drop a 5 pick on us with Favor we'd only have a 5% chance of avoiding it. With Grace we'd have a 100% chance of avoiding it.
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Hey, we don't need to yolo every fight, we can just bravely run away! Live and get stronger after all. Grace is better if we suddenly get attacked by an overwhelmingly powerful threat with no warning, I agree; but Favor is better pretty much every other time. And the biggest risks we had so far weren't any overwhelming threats from nowhere, they at least came with a warning! So while it's a useful protection to have because it's not strictly impossible that Apocryphal chooses to do something like this; is it really the best protection we can get here? Especially considering the protection only covers Hunger and that there are many possible other fates the thread would conisder unacceptable; e.g. spending a re-roll to save Versch. It would definitely be much better in those cases, for example.
Unelemental said:
Thanks for the quotes. Though concerning Aobaru's Exaltation, it's only really helpful for the next proc if it improves his power quickly enough to be comparable to our own or stronger. It doesn't say Haeliel invests him with immediate power, but rather talks about Progression and 'ultimate ceiling'. It's very useful over the longer-term, but is he going to improve quickly enough to matter during the next proc?
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I think Exaltation does expand Aobaru's capabilities in the time-frame before the proc since his empowerment was a possible solution to the platinum thing, and we seem to be solving that before the proc. It's no literally instant, but I do think he would become significantly stronger in a relevant time-frame to matter against it.
 
Valkhir said:
One worrying thing about Grace, is when does it actually activate ? Since its written as otherwise insurmountable, does that mean that it only activates if without Grace we would 100% die, meaning it wouldnt activate for a 75%, 80%, or even 99% death chance proc? Since if overcoming it is possible, it IS a heroes' duty to thread the needle.
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I presume it would activate if we burned through all our rerolls and still failed, since we wouldn't have any other way of overcoming said proc.
 
@ReaderOfFate, @Aabcehmu, @BrainInAJar: I'm calling your markers now. Vote what I'm voting. (Deferred reprieve is my main interest, but Brain shouldn't be too upset because I'm also voting Guidance.)
Valkhir said:
One worrying thing about Grace, is when does it actually activate ? Since its written as otherwise insurmountable, does that mean that it only activates if without Grace we would 100% die, meaning it wouldnt activate for a 75%, 80%, or even 99% death chance proc? Since if overcoming it is possible, it IS a heroes' duty to thread the needle.
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Almost certainly! However, in the very likely event that we did die to one of those, she'll save us.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
@ReaderOfFate, @Aabcehmu, @BrainInAJar: I'm calling your markers now. Vote what I'm voting. (Deferred reprieve is my main interest, but Brain shouldn't be too upset because I'm also voting Guidance.)

Almost certainly! However, in the very likely event that we did die to one of those, she'll save us.
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That's not comforting at all as to it's usefulness then.
It just means an unlucky 5% proc or a chain of low death chance procs, or even just greed(hmm), could take up the Grace, leaving its actual value at an all time low. One use things cannot be relied upon intrinsically if you don't have the means to procure more for later Apocryphal procs, and we do not.
 
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Valkhir said:
That's not comforting at all as to it's usefulness then.
It just means an unlucky 5% proc or a chain of low death chance procs, or even just greed(hmm), could take up the Grace, leaving its actual value at an all time low. One use things cannot be relied upon intrinsically if you don't have the means to procure more for later Apocryphal procs, and we do not.
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It would still apply to more things and be more reliable than Favor, since a 100% chance of avoiding death would always be always better than a 5% chance of avoiding only Apocryphal proc. Our greed is much more dangerous to Hunger than the Apocryphal.
 
@ImperatorV, I am calling in my marker for "I wish my reprieve be deferred." You can vote for whatever you want beyond that except for Juniors Exaltation.

Anyway, if people are really worried about survival, than in the short and long term, an defensive wish is simply the superior choice imo. Even if it's not, in this matter at least, I don't think Hunger would mind taking some risk.
 
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Valkhir said:
That's not comforting at all as to it's usefulness then.
It just means an unlucky 5% proc or a chain of loe death chance procs, or even just greed(hmm), could take up the Grace, leaving its actual value at an all time low. One use things cannot be relied upon intrinsically if you don't have the means to procure more for later Apocryphal procs, and we do not.
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I mean, we have other defenses. And we obviously want more of them. But "this can fail because of relatively low-chance Bad Ends eating it" is not actually an argument against getting it - if we fell to a low-chance Bad End without it, that would just be it for us!
Anyway, low% Bad End risks are what rerolls are for.
 
HoratioVonBecker said:
@ReaderOfFate, @Aabcehmu, @BrainInAJar: I'm calling your markers now. Vote what I'm voting. (Deferred reprieve is my main interest, but Brain shouldn't be too upset because I'm also voting Guidance.)

Almost certainly! However, in the very likely event that we did die to one of those, she'll save us.
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How weird, I didn't register it in signature, but you are right. I guess I'll just take a break from this vote.

[X] HoratioVonBecker
 
The current winning combo is Advice, Grace, and Deferral. That means no power ups before the 105% Apocryphal Proc hits us. We really need either Favour or Aobaru Boost if we want a chance to win without immediately wasting the Grace wish.
 
Shard said:
{} Fallout Shelter

The Shattering Entity contemplated the efficacy of it's fusion attacks, which had brought it far indeed. By simply selecting a locale and directly poisoning the surroundings to an extreme degree before erecting numerous obstacles, much could be deterred. Hopefully. The remainder would hopefully be incapable of penetrating their shelter.

* Shardcraft Focus: Physics, Conceptual. Blatant exploitation of Shardcraft's interaction with reality allows radioactive wastelands amplified by Shardcraft.
* The effects would be lethal for any mortal human within minutes, the very air eroding their very being from without and within. Plus, Shard is pretty sure nobody has NBC suits, so the obvious technological counters don't exist. Magical methods to defeat them might exist, but Shard is pretty sure radioactive hellscapes are currently an outside context problem.
* Wound that walks. Unlike the Decimator's Affliction, this can be fixed later. If desired.
* The Shelter itself is reasonably tough, and would require superhuman levels of strength to breach.
* Few, if any, actual guards. The area is eerily silent.
* Initial Visibility: High. It's a literal radioactive hellscape.
* Power Level: High. Combat via nuking your enemies is extremely potent.
* Deterrence: High. A radioactive hellscape with basically nothing in it.
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Cthulu is too unethical, Tomb too... wait. You have the Apocryphal Curse. Tomb gives that an obvious angle, in the form of heroes coming to challenge you - and Fallout Shelter gives it another obvious angle, in the form of making Accretion+Conceptual Radiation create giant monsters to attack you.
Guess which one sounds more manageable for a newbie Progressor?
{X} Tomb of Horrors
 
Rah13 said:
The current winning combo is Advice, Grace, and Deferral. That means no power ups before the 105% Apocryphal Proc hits us. We really need either Favour or Aobaru Boost if we want a chance to win without immediately wasting the Grace wish.
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It's not a waste, it's just using it immediately! If necessary. We might be able to impress the Accursed by getting through without it, after all!
Also, Advice is a significant competence boost, plus a near-immediate probably-pays-for-its-own-learning-time-in-mental-acceleration Ordinal initiation for Gisena. Not at all something to discount!
 
@Conjured Blade since people are activating markers, I'd like you to please vote for Favor, Guidance, and your choice of [Evening Sky] bonus. Please do not namevote me. Also, remember that you have 1 veto if you choose to activate it.

Thanks :)
 
I genuinely don't understand how we can pass up the amount of benefit favor gives us. I get that grace is a nice safety net but I'd rather just have the power to deal with the proc itself.
 
ImperatorV said:
Heard and answered.

[X] "I wish my reprieve be deferred."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's grace."
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."
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technically speaking, Reprieve + Favor is a valid vote given DK's terms. Not sure if you're pro-Favor, but it's worth keeping in mind:

DkArthas said:
I am calling in my marker for "I wish my reprieve be deferred." You can vote for whatever you want beyond that except for Juniors Exaltation.
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Zampano said:
@Conjured Blade since people are activating markers, I'd like you to please vote for Favor, Guidance, and your choice of [Evening Sky] bonus. Please do not namevote me. Also, remember that you have 1 veto if you choose to activate it.

Thanks :)
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Very well. I'm kind of having trouble deciding on things myself so I'll go for it. I still think my earlier basis for Exaltation/Deferred/Guidance has a point but this still gels with my earlier arguments about pride and making Amplification and Distillation effective.


[X] "I wish for the Seraph's favor." (2 wishes)
[X] "I wish for the Seraph's guidance."

As for my bonus? Since this build doesn't save a wish for signs or other things... I'm going for things that will either provide us with insight for the VR extraction problem or help us with the Apocrypha Proc. When is the next Full Moon?

[x]Stars Align
[x]Moonlight Delusion
 
I had some people owing me some vote markers at some point, I think. I don't remember. All of those people should vote for Favor, I guess?

Or don't. Not like I have any of the vote-debts actually recorded anywhere.
 
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