A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
The concept of SAVEing is silly. Just say you don't think Haeliel isn't worth the 50(!) Arete if you think we ought get something else!
Such cruelty!
Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Also, I'd like to post my (very basic) thoughts on what I think of the Sponsors based on Party Dynamics, since I haven't brought that up before:
Daylian: A capable frontline fighter on par with Hunger, his personality will either drive the group to greater heights or mess with team cohesion as he tries to insert himself into a larger Leadership role.
Wolber: Mage Support & Strategist, independent & solitary habits make it likely to act passive in team dynamic interactions.
I am generally uninterested in adding yet another Magic Support user to our party considering how many Magic-focused users are already on the team. On top of that, Wolber brings double the Apocryphal Procs from his own Curse if he travels with us, and we are still obligated to help him out from time to time if we opt to travel without him.
Furthermore, Wolber is noted for his Intelligence, an optimizer & scientist; capable of sharing the burden of rule with Hunger. I know someone who already fills that niche: Gisena or to a lesser extent Adorie for delegation.
Lastly, I see a fundamental disconnect in the underlying motivations for Daylian/Wolber's Sponsorship:
- Daylian has outscaled his home universe and is fully committed to finding new challenges and helping out fellow Cursebearers. The only downside is the limited Geas-travel time yet if you frame it the other way, it means Daylian will not take up precious narrative space since there will be times he isn't available.
- Wolber's commitment will allow him to permanently collaborate with Hunger, but he has his own priorities such as mitigating Apocryphal, further refining the Imperial Praxis (that's incompatible with Hunger's version), etc. Not to mention his Brand of the Wretched is specifically noted to clash with Hunger's Tyrant Curse.
Ultimately, I don't wish to add more work on Hunger's plate and Wolber seems like an awkward fit to the Party Build as fills a niche that's already covered and Hunger will be increasingly burdened as the only Melee/Frontline fighter on the team, stretching his attention further since Wolber brings his own Apocryphal troubles.
EDIT:
My main fear with Daylian is how he might try to grab the spotlight in the team due to his Hubris, potentially alienating Hunger.
Daylian: A capable frontline fighter on par with Hunger, his personality will either drive the group to greater heights or mess with team cohesion as he tries to insert himself into a larger Leadership role.
Wolber: Mage Support & Strategist, independent & solitary habits make it likely to act passive in team dynamic interactions.
I am generally uninterested in adding yet another Magic Support user to our party considering how many Magic-focused users are already on the team. On top of that, Wolber brings double the Apocryphal Procs from his own Curse if he travels with us, and we are still obligated to help him out from time to time if we opt to travel without him.
Furthermore, Wolber is noted for his Intelligence, an optimizer & scientist; capable of sharing the burden of rule with Hunger. I know someone who already fills that niche: Gisena or to a lesser extent Adorie for delegation.
Lastly, I see a fundamental disconnect in the underlying motivations for Daylian/Wolber's Sponsorship:
- Daylian has outscaled his home universe and is fully committed to finding new challenges and helping out fellow Cursebearers. The only downside is the limited Geas-travel time yet if you frame it the other way, it means Daylian will not take up precious narrative space since there will be times he isn't available.
- Wolber's commitment will allow him to permanently collaborate with Hunger, but he has his own priorities such as mitigating Apocryphal, further refining the Imperial Praxis (that's incompatible with Hunger's version), etc. Not to mention his Brand of the Wretched is specifically noted to clash with Hunger's Tyrant Curse.
Ultimately, I don't wish to add more work on Hunger's plate and Wolber seems like an awkward fit to the Party Build as fills a niche that's already covered and Hunger will be increasingly burdened as the only Melee/Frontline fighter on the team, stretching his attention further since Wolber brings his own Apocryphal troubles.
EDIT:
My main fear with Daylian is how he might try to grab the spotlight in the team due to his Hubris, potentially alienating Hunger.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Gisena's precise level of squishiness is somewhat debatable at this point. She's got Retinue improving her growth Rate and True Perfecting Blade continuously improving her physical stats. Maybe squishy relative to Hunger but in absolute terms it's anybody's guess.
From the Truth Manifest:
Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
I've clarified and edited my post further to specify another Magic-focused user that's noted to have weak Physical stats due to his maladies.
Basically, I don't wish to fill a party slot with another background supporting character a la Aobaru who can help us with the utility of Imperial Praxis that's not limited to Swords.
....and then eventually outscale Wolber's power level and reducing his relevancy once we've finished extracting the benefits, since he's a Combat-type Cursebearer.
Frankly, I think it'd be interesting to have a mirror Progression-type that could consistently stay on par with Hunger without any investment so Daylian could act as a sounding board/partner rather than a sidekick.
I see you like to live dangerously! Well, you're certainly in the right place.
A lot of Ruinous Valor's value is in what it unlocks, the Forebear's Martial Stances are a hell of a drug. Also quite an Arete sink, but so it goes.
Not just an inkling, Versch is the hidden heart of the party and the only redeeming aspect of the Decimator's Affliction!
To put things in perspective, you know how the Tyrant Beast would've renewed the A Hunger Sated condition, suppressing the Affliction? The Temple of the False Moon made the Apocryphal Curse take a vacation for a fortnight, just because Hunger trying to tackle it was sufficiently 'interesting' that it didn't need to interfere further. It's a wild ride you're embarking on.
Really feeling the lack of an oof reaction right about now...
[X] The Seraph of Heroism, Haeliel [Basic, 50 Arete]
[X] Fifth Sign: Armor of Midnight [Evening Sky]
[X] Complete Overkill (Requires Daylian or Haeliel)
Complete Overkill can be accomplished by empowering Aobaru, which is desirable in its own right and might help handle the upcoming Apocryphal proc, making it a good use of a Haeliel Interrupt. The downside is that we'd be rolling the dice on his life and using an unimaginably valuable opportunity to pay a debt and empower someone else. Honestly, the notion of Hunger going back to paying Aobaru in platinum (now minted by the very man receiving it!) after calling in a favor with a High Cursebearer on his behalf is borderline farcical. It'd be nice to do away with the mercenary aspect of the party at this point, surely the Elixir Sovereign can forgive Aeira's family debts.
Anyway, Armor of Midnight's powerful and the Evening Sign set bonus is as unexpected as it is welcome, but passing up utility for both Signs 4 & 5 seems like the sort of thing that'll bite Hunger in the ass when the promised Apocryphal proc materializes. As Above's the only utility option left on the table, but would an upgraded Nightmare Flight be enough for extraction? Could Bring to Heel summon something strong enough, or would it just be an avenue for Apocryphal interference? I'm honestly on the fence for all three parts of this vote. We stand to save a lot of Arete by going with Daylian, and he could not only solve the debt crisis cleanly but might bail Hunger out of what's coming.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Huh, we might not actually make the 50 Arete mark. Hm. That does change things a little... Still, I'll give Haeliel Gang more time before I bail out. Maybe write up my "Hunger & friends react to Even Further Beyond" idea to help them out.
Anyway, we definitely aren't getting both Seraph-chan and Blood Sorcery, so we're going to need to work out which of those we're dropping. and IIRC voting might end today, which makes things more urgent.
Anyway, we definitely aren't getting both Seraph-chan and Blood Sorcery, so we're going to need to work out which of those we're dropping. and IIRC voting might end today, which makes things more urgent.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Have we no pride whatsoever? Are we whales? Renaissance Woman was a 900 dollar save our asses we should never have needed. Haeliel is the most egregious option on a 900 dollar Smorgasboard. If we actually need Haeliels interrupts. If the only reason we're still alive is Rihaku getting thousands of Dollars. What's the point of there being a quest at all?
Forced Induction was an act of Grace on Orms part. Unasked for. Undeserved. Any outside cursebearer is a blessing.
Forced Induction was an act of Grace on Orms part. Unasked for. Undeserved. Any outside cursebearer is a blessing.
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Resonant
Procrastinator Supreme
Just to clarify as I haven't been sure of this, Hunger's induction to the Cursebearer Association with the arrival of the Accursed was the activation/usage of a Defensive Wish gained through Patreon, rather than a naturally occurring Proc?
If so, I can agree with that sentiment as I've always felt that while Haeliel is an incredible offer, I'm afraid her character is such a radical tone shift to what's been introduced so far in the narrative that it might actually detract from the story as she overshadows and babysits Hunger's journey.
I'm always up for cool lore, but I'd prefer it weaved into the story naturally and not immediately thrown into the face with a unexpected High Cursebearer Onee-Chan.
Though admittedly I have a weakness to my own argument as well. The long-term stability benefit for Hunger to reach the Epilogue stage in the story is a constant worry for me and I'd be highly susceptible to prioritizing that if it seemed to outweigh my view on Haeliel.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Yes to it being acquired through Patreon. No to it being a defensive wish. Orm wished for something like this Forced Induction update to happen at some point given my understanding. It was in the queue for a couple of months before a suitable narrative moment to make it happen popped up.
- Location
- Italy
mostly. I was against Tyrant Beast at the very least.
If there's a chance of "rock falls, everyone dies" that we can do nothing about that's a strong point against the option after all.
...though admittedly the VERY scenic route is/was tempting... at least it offers
higher rewards than Tyrant beast, for only half the chance of death!
a much better risk-reward ratio!
Well, you're certainly raising my expectations for him
It was so disappointing that it would renew all of TWO DAYS of the condition
You know, I can't help but think/imagine... is the apocryphal curse sentient/sapient?
How would it feel if it actually managed to kill us? After all if we die it can't make things interesting anymore!
"No, please, I didn't mean it! Don't die, we have so many more
- Location
- Pindorama
Killing ourselves is in the lead, unsurprisingly. Given that both Halilel and Vast Emyprean are ahead, it's quite safe to switch of out of Blood Sorcery, but nonethelesss.
- Location
- Pindorama
You say getting Haliel is a sign of "whaling" but the Arete we have to get her didn't come out of the ether. It was due to the efforts of many people, most notably @DarkSideBard. The wish merely gave us the opportunity. Pursuing it or not is up to our effort and our capabilities; it's no mere "Grace". It's something we still had to work towards, so it's something I don't consider cheap in any way; on the contrary. It's the most important thi we can get, by far, nothing even comes close. So when it comes to prioritizing it, we absolutely should.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I would be very surprised if even Darksidebards arete mining would be enough for Haeliel if not for the fact we've been under the Arete Doubling for several months that people paid money for.
Honestly, I'd appreciate it if people would vote for their preference rather than out of some sense of obligation. We're all here to have fun; let the outcome reflect the wishes of the voters. If you keep namevoting me I'm just going to pull a Microwave and pass the buck to DSB!