It only somewhat buffs a single member of our posse, and they still have UV protection either way. I mean, they would be somewhat more useful against moobs when we are not there, but they do still have UV protection, so anything those stats would be useful against is likely something that can't really harm them in first place.

Assuming Rank and stat proportions are roughly equal, Skyward Thrust would give them like planetary level (or the equivalent in terms of baseline strength and ISH boosts). As for UV, the two people who've actually well protected by it are also the people that need it least, since Gisena's already pretty strong in her own right and Letz would be piloting a mech. The others don't have the plusses to benefit fully. And there's something to be said for letting them do more than get whaled on by powerful opponents.

As for Aeira, buffing her is probably the best way to ensure party survivability in the absence of Hunger, since she can just give everybody fifteen fucktillion Stealth and they can just hide.
 
Assuming Rank and stat proportions are roughly equal, Skyward Thrust would give them like planetary level (or the equivalent in terms of baseline strength and ISH boosts).
It's GS tier, so multi-mountain range or something. Enough to crush current random mooks, but not enough to survive against foes of Hunger's caliber. Plus they lack Rank to back those stats up.
As for Aeira, buffing her is probably the best way to ensure party survivability in the absence of Hunger, since she can just give everybody fifteen fucktillion Stealth and they can just hide.
To say that I'm supremely skeptical of that ever actually happening would be an understatement. Like, we will just buff Gisena or Aobaru and call it a day.
 
And that doesn't matter because UV doesn't stack with target's durability and ours own durability is vastly higher than what Aobaru's going to have.

Hunter Hunted:
Choose up to 5 companions whose true Astral Ranks do not exceed your own. They receive bonus Protection, Constitution and regeneration depending on both your relative power levels and their level of loyalty to you. A highly loyal companion would be about as difficult to kill as you yourself are, including the effects of your Artifacts. [+Might, +Agility, +++Constitution]

We have not invested anything in Aobaru's Social link, therefore Aobaru is not as durable as we are.

Edit: I didn't think to check what Undying Vanguard does until I first made this post, so it looks like Skyward Claim does buy time to a more meaningful degree than Undying Vanguard in spite of lack of stacking.
 
Last edited:
Exactly what it says on the tin? Both Gisena and Aobaru are pretty strong, and this would upgrade them in a massive way. It would upgrade Aeria too, but nowhere near as close since she's super weak when compared to other two.

Not really, actually Gisena is already a Hunger Tier combatant due to the way her various powers work, she literally saved Hunger's ass a update ago.

Shadowcord Mastery put Aeiraand Aoboru at about the same level in terms of combat effectiveness with different matchups helping against different builds. Aoboru got a powerup in between them, but largely all it did was increase his ability to give people fractional ISH boosts to stats, which he can do to anyone. Aoboru's abilities at the moment don't really do anything to leverage huge stat buffs unlike what we know about how Shadowcord works. But hey, if

At best, she will be somewhat relevant on their level.
Of course, this also means that we will never choose to buff her instead of Aobaru and Gisena, especially as they have powerful growth ways that could use those stats.

No, only being somewhat relevant is actually the worst we can expect, because the blurb literally states it'd make her relevant in direct combat against opponents that can threaten Hunger, which are the only sort of opponents that being relevant in direct combat for this party can mean given Hunger is in it. Aoboru, Aeira, Gisena, and maybe even Letz given the giant robot are already able to fight random mooks like Nilfelian legionaires so they don't really need to be boosted to level Mook crushing level.

But I only used Aeira as a example because she was written out in direct way where you couldn't say staggering heights in comparison to a normal person and were thus useless in direct combat. If you think that their lieable to go even further then the baseline of relevant to Hunger in direct combat then that only makes Skyward Claim's arguement stronger.

I mean, she's a liability. Whenever we are making a plan she's not a part of it because she can't do anything useful. Only time we are mentioning her is when we are going out of our way to fuck up our build in order to protect someone who does fuck all.

Like, why do you feel the need to keep her around? Just let her go home and live her own life instead of stringing her along until she gets run over by a random cosmic horror or whatever. We even made Soverginity Apo-proof last vote.

She gives a proportional stealth buff based on how powerful the person she is buffing is, and I like the way RIhaku writes her. But I wasn't really talking about that, their's nothing wrong with having that opinion. I was talk about how you delivered the argument with "b-but what about useless people we keep near ourselves for no reason" Seriously, you don't have to be asshole or try to to everyone you argue with. Most people take your arguements seriously and think you contribute worthwhile things without it.

Does he? Having amount of Agi and Str that more or less irrelevant at Hunger level doesn't seem like a relevant increase to his Hunger-level survivability.

Well, given we already have Undying Vanguard, and Skyward Claim directly stated that getting it on top of it significantly narrows the amount of enemies capable of killing him from where it was before,so yes it definitely does. If that doesn't make sense to you based on your conception of the Agi and Str and Wits being irrelevant at Hungers level, maybe your conception is just pessimistic.
 
Last edited:
Well, given we already have Undying Vanguard, and Skyward Claim directly stated that getting it on top of it significantly narrows the amount of enemies capable of killing him, yes it definitely does. If that doesn't make sense to you based on your conception of the Agi and Str and Witz being irrelevant at Hungers level, maybe your conception is just pessimistic.

Having checked our investments in Aobaru's Social link and finding out we haven't, it(Edit: Undying Vanguard) doesn't actually do much for Aobaru I bet. He's not as durable as we are for example, but whatever protection and regeneration he does get from Undying Vanguard helps somewhat. The constitution rating for Aobaru (edit: From Skyward Claim) is the real showstopper though.

Edit: To get all the thoughts in order, Undying Vanguard effects Constitution, Protection, and Regeneration of companions based on our relative power levels and the strength of social links with them. Highly Loyal companions are as durable as we are. Skyward Claim Elevates Aobaru's constitution to a level suitable for our rank from whatever Undying Vanguard gives him, and buffs his strength, agility, and wits. The Strength/Agility/Constitution benefit from ISH true Vigorflame Buffs.
 
Last edited:
Alright, we are getting bogged down in pointless stuff. One relevant thing that came out of this is that Skyward Claim Aeira might, in fact, be our solution to getting out of VR.

But that's beside the point. In the end, I still expect Star to be absolutely crucial in any battle going forward. I expect Claim to be somewhat relevant every now and then. They are absolutely not in the same league when it comes to pure impact. Just get good option.
 
I just realized an alternative material to Edeldross for the Synthesis strategy. This is Plan B.

The Shadow of Nilfel:
They arrived at last at the Walls of Myth which encircled their destination realm. The Walls seemed a nigh-impassible barrier: semi-translucent battlements reaching limitlessly skywards and spanning to the horizon, their wavering distortion-surface thick with runes of golden azure. Raw magic, sheer conceptual weight seeped from the surface of the walls, a heady denseness of reality that stultified mind and spirit, Pressure more comprehensive than even that of Astral Rank.

Semi-translucent? That sounds pretty close to semi-corporeal aka Pure Edeldross. But if that doesn't work, Plan B is to quarry a chunk or two of myth out of the walls of Myth if we possess sufficient power to do so. Then we melt that with Aobaru's Vigorflame and sanctify it with Adories Blood if we have to before we mix it with mundane platinum to make it Myth infused.

Edit: And for Deathly Star fans, we can use it as a cutting laser on the walls.
 
Last edited:
Assuming Rank and stat proportions are roughly equal, Skyward Thrust would give them like planetary level (or the equivalent in terms of baseline strength and ISH boosts). As for UV, the two people who've actually well protected by it are also the people that need it least, since Gisena's already pretty strong in her own right and Letz would be piloting a mech. The others don't have the plusses to benefit fully. And there's something to be said for letting them do more than get whaled on by powerful opponents.

As for Aeira, buffing her is probably the best way to ensure party survivability in the absence of Hunger, since she can just give everybody fifteen fucktillion Stealth and they can just hide.

Indeed, there's something to be said for planetary-level Might and Agility... it would take Hunger a considerable amount of effort to approach those physical stats outside of Refinements!
 
I realized another strategy for reproducing the essence of myth because I am apparently on a planning roll today.

Current state of my plans

Plan A: Sanctify Pure Edeldross with Adories Blood to keep it in reality. Then melt it with Aobaru's vigorflame to mix with with mundane platinum and make it into coins. Use Skyward Claim on Adorie and blood powers to attempt to replicate Adories Bloodline to get enough blood to shield all the Pure Edeldross.

Plan B(New/Refined Strategy): If Pure Edeldross sanctified with Adories Blood alone is insufficient, try working the runes from the Walls of Myth into the pure Edeldross. We may need Gisena/Veil of Grandeur to work the runes into the Pure Edeldross ingots properly. Then we melt those ingots with vigorflame to mix them with mundane platinum and make it into coins.

Plan C(The Old Plan B): If all else fails, attempt to quarry chunks of the Walls of Myth out of the walls using Brute Force or maybe Deathly Star as a cutting/blasting laser and harvesting what wreckage we can. Have Aobaru melt salvaged wall chunks and mix those with mundane platinum to get myth infused platinum coins.

Given the state of things/my realizations on potential applications of Veil of Grandeur/Gisena for a Synthesis plan, I'm extending my marker offering.

1 marker with 1 veto to the next two people to tag me with a switch to Synthesis/Skyward Claim or Synthesis/Veil of Grandeur.
 
Indeed, there's something to be said for planetary-level Might and Agility... it would take Hunger a considerable amount of effort to approach those physical stats outside of Refinements!
Pretty much, if we end up getting Claim the play is to have Gisena copy the spell and make something that allows her to share her stats, so we can have her buff our stats too.
 
Oh. My. God.

The Shadow of Nilfel:
They arrived at last at the Walls of Myth which encircled their destination realm. The Walls seemed a nigh-impassible barrier: semi-translucent battlements reaching limitlessly skywards and spanning to the horizon, their wavering distortion-surface thick with runes of golden azure. Raw magic, sheer conceptual weight seeped from the surface of the walls, a heady denseness of reality that stultified mind and spirit, Pressure more comprehensive than even that of Astral Rank.

Subtle and Quick:
Leaving her to her work, he quickly arrived at the border and engaged the Rotspawn. As with Letrizia, it had taken a few hours for his Element to come in. At first it was tentative, unformed, a bright purposeless warmth bubbling up in his chest. He sensed that it was some kind of augmenting effect, colorless but welcoming, like the radiant glow of a hearthfire or the sun veiled by clouds.

He called forth a surge of it, bathing himself in that nameless translucence. Swiftly he felt his mind sharpen and body grow stronger, the powers of his self and soul tuned like a violin-string towards a more perfect expression. It was a powerful and comprehensive enchantment, hopeful and clean...

I am pretty fucking sure Myth is worked Edeldross now.

Edit: Extending on this. Stultified(Definition from Dictionary.com).

1.to make, or cause to appear, foolish or ridiculous.
2.to render absurdly or wholly futile or ineffectual, especially by degrading or frustrating means: Menial work can stultify the mind.

Edeldross makes the mind sharpen and tunes the soul. What happens you put all those golden Azure runes on it. Does the polarity get reversed to make it stultify people?
 
Last edited:
I'm on mobile so I'll try to keep this brief (which is very unlike me).

In the Avecarn fight, Hunger had rank 5 and the high marshal had rank 6.5. In that range of accretion, "A 1 point difference in Rank is overwhelming, 2 points is nigh-unwinnable." The blurb from when we voted to fight Avecarn instead of Gondar or Letrizia's cousin said that Hunger's high physical stats were what made the fight "less suicidal" than the relative ranks would suggest.

The chief counter argument to Skywards Claim seems to be that granting a character Rank 8+ stats will fail to make a difference in the kind of fights that we are likely to face. However, we have an example of Stats making up for Rank disparity already. Avecarn was even noted to have active Rank, but Hunger still flattened him.

Even in the worst case scenario devised by Skywards Claim's detractors, Planetary scale Strength and Speed seem highly appealing. But we won't always be in the worst case scenario. There are lots of scenarios where a companion would be better than a laser.

Any time there are bad guys in two different locations, it will be useful for Team Hunger to operate in two places at once. Any time our allies are trying to learn a skill or devise a plan, it will be useful to more than double our available stats. Any time there's a homicidal terminator attacking a party member who is an impulsive teenager, it will be useful to help make sure that the Apocryphal Curse doesn't punish us for letting the teenager die.

This doesn't even touch on Conjured Blade's specific use-case for Skywards Claim, which has a pretty creative use of Adorie's bloodline imo.
 
I'm on mobile so I'll try to keep this brief (which is very unlike me).

In the Avecarn fight, Hunger had rank 5 and the high marshal had rank 6.5. In that range of accretion, "A 1 point difference in Rank is overwhelming, 2 points is nigh-unwinnable." The blurb from when we voted to fight Avecarn instead of Gondar or Letrizia's cousin said that Hunger's high physical stats were what made the fight "less suicidal" than the relative ranks would suggest.

The chief counter argument to Skywards Claim seems to be that granting a character Rank 8+ stats will fail to make a difference in the kind of fights that we are likely to face. However, we have an example of Stats making up for Rank disparity already. Avecarn was even noted to have active Rank, but Hunger still flattened him.

Even in the worst case scenario devised by Skywards Claim's detractors, Planetary scale Strength and Speed seem highly appealing. But we won't always be in the worst case scenario. There are lots of scenarios where a companion would be better than a laser.

Any time there are bad guys in two different locations, it will be useful for Team Hunger to operate in two places at once. Any time our allies are trying to learn a skill or devise a plan, it will be useful to more than double our available stats. Any time there's a homicidal terminator attacking a party member who is an impulsive teenager, it will be useful to help make sure that the Apocryphal Curse doesn't punish us for letting the teenager die.

This doesn't even touch on Conjured Blade's specific use-case for Skywards Claim, which has a pretty creative use of Adorie's bloodline imo.

Extending on what you just said. Word of Rihaku from here. A Simple Transaction I Original
Low Ranks (1 to 3) - A 1 point difference in Rank is noticeable, 2 points is overwhelming (90%+ favored if other stats equal)
Middle Ranks (3.1 to 8) - A 1 point difference in Rank is overwhelming, 2 points is nigh-unwinnable
High Ranks (8.1 to 10+) - A .5 point difference in Rank is overwhelming, 1 point is nigh-unwinnable

We are Rank 8.475 for Skyward Claim purposes. Skyward Claim gives Aobaru Physical stats suitable for somebody with rank 8.475. These stats stack with True Vigorflame(ISH Buffs), and Blood Augmentation to take his capabilities beyond what somebody with rank 8.475 should have. Aobaru would have a chance against somebody with rank 8.975 from a stats standpoint(Less than overwhelming). 9.475 would be the nigh unwinnable threshold, which is our current rank level for military purposes.

Edit: Comparing Aobaru to Hunger(Higher stats then is appropriate for their rank), a High Marshal Avecarn level adversary for him would be rank 9.225.
 
Last edited:
A second companion with high Stats (instead of High Rank) closes off the threat of a single silver bullet completely neutering Hunger's build. If the effects of Rank are suppressed, our companion can punch their way out of the trap. Diversifying the party's capabilities is one way to prepare for Apocryphal activations.
 
It is worth keeping in mind that the same principles which allow Hunger to gain power also apply to his companions. That is, our companions can leverage the physical might we can give them to accrue their own power faster.

Let's take Aobaru

Aobaru gains Rank 8+ stats, he is now strong enough to go questing for useful items in the realm of Myth, which he does. He gains access to an armor that gives him greater defenses, on that mythic scale. His strength, both with the buff and without has dramatically increased and it has done so much faster than if we left him to improve on his own.

This kind of growth is essential if we want to out scale Apocryphal. Because Apocryphal scales to Hunger one method of managing it long term is to stack external benefits such as companions which add strength separate from the scaling mechanism.

Pacifist - Download
100 Ordinal Credits.
5 Cerulean Obols.
0 Radiant Electrum.

[3] - Shards of Infinity: [+4 Cerulean Obols]

[ ] A Modest Realm - Eclipse Phase

[ ] Gamble -
First Gamble: Receive [+1 Radiant Electrum] in addition to the listed reward.
[ ] 6: Forebidding - [+100 Ordinal Coins]



Melodious / Mask
[ ] I: Gourmet [2 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Ordinal Ordering [20 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] III: Resplendency [60 Ordinal Coins] -

Ally / Alternate
[ ] I: Attribution Requested [5 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Ally [20 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: Armada [70 Ordinal Coins] -

Extract / Exceed
[ ] I: Quintessence [2 Ordinal Coins] -
[ ] II: The Sword [33 Ordinal Coins] -

Cerulean Obols
[ ] Body Armor [8 Cerulean Obols] -

Radiant Electrum
[ ] First Sword [1 Radiant Electrum] - Bardcore

Debit: 215/ 9 / 1
Credit: 189 / 8 / 1

Strategy:
Since force will not avail me diplomacy will have to do.
qwolfs threw 1 3-faced dice. Reason: Downloaded Nature Roll: Total: 3
3 3
qwolfs threw 1 8-faced dice. Reason: Downloaded Gamble Roll: Total: 6
6 6
 
Last edited:
[] Synthesis
[] Fourth Sign: Skywards Claim [Vast Empyrean]

Your arguments convinced me @Conjured Blade, so I'll take your offer if it's still available.

EDIT: Realigning vote to user.
[X] Conjured Blade
 
Last edited:
Guys, remember Ringlord? Remember how amazingly overpowered it was? Remember what it lost to?

Well, it lost so we could make Graces. That happened about 60 updates ago, and we have 0 Graces and better magic system we are currently using instead. Moral of the story is that just because posters tell you that something is amazing and that it will totally happen in order to sell you a choice, it doesn't mean that it's actually amazing and it will happen.

Actual moral of the story is to pick good options instead of trying to make things work. Deathly Star will unquestionably majorly improve outcome of virtually every battle we found ourselves in. Like, it just will. There's no need to try and make it work, moment we get it onwards, it will just do what it's supposed to.

Plus it's a Evening Sky Sign, for what it's worth. I don't think that we will decide to pick Armor of Midnight?
 
tbh, your habit of dumping on advancements that you don't like really just makes me want to vote against you no matter what option you're arguing for, even when it is something that I agree has a lot of value.

Well, it lost so we could make Graces
nah, Ring Lord lost to Trinity. People wanted to get to the third EFB as soon as possible. Fully 70 people voted for an accelerated Evening Sky EFB, while only 16 people voted for Ring-Lord. Silver of Evening and Heavenly Tomb were the only real competitors.
 
Alright.

The point of Claim is that we use it on Gisena, have her use enhanced Wits and Sign itself to derive Grace that has similar effect, and then have her copy her own stats to Hunger, or something to that effect, thus having Hunger directly benefit from Claim either in part or fully. Goal is to receive multiple EFBs worth of stats and have them scale with Rank, double-dipping on Rank/Stat interaction and generally translating our Rank into combat stats, value of which should be self-evident.

With something like SJUC or SitS we'd make Gisena benefit from Rank 10 level stats, which is to say infinite stats, which would go back to Hunger and then be buffed over ISH 2.0 with either OaF II or Aobaru's buff. Some of you might remember that this is the thing we are looking for, as it will also elevate Quickening and Cut Through to ISH 3.

The question, of course, is should we spend amount of effort and time to try and make this work. It likely won't work perfectly from start, but it's just matter of trying hard enough, given our abilities. The actual discussion, here, is if we should put not insignificant amount of effort into enabling this, or we should get Veil's very comprehensive solution to future problems, or we should just get Star and continue as we are.

Now that we are all a bit closer to fully understanding the implications of every option, perhaps we could have discussion that doesn't make delete 90% of stuff I type?
 
Current state of my Synthesis Plans

Plan A: Sanctify Pure Edeldross with Adories Blood to keep it in reality. Then melt it with Aobaru's vigorflame to mix with mundane platinum and make it into coins. Use Skyward Claim on Adorie and blood powers to attempt to replicate Adories Bloodline to get enough blood to shield all the Pure Edeldross.

Plan B: If Pure Edeldross sanctified with Adories Blood alone is insufficient, try working the runes from the Walls of Myth into the pure Edeldross. We may need Gisena/Veil of Grandeur to work the runes into the Pure Edeldross ingots properly. Then we melt those ingots with vigorflame to mix them with mundane platinum and make it into coins.

Plan C(Newest Strategy): Get some mundane platinum that's inside pure edeldross so it's being enhanced. Then sanctify the Platinum with Adories Blood so that it keeps the Edeldross enhancements.

Edit: If we need to bind the Edeldross's effect to the Platinum for plan C somehow, try carving the rune of ascension into it and filling it with Pure Edeldross

Plan D: If all else fails, attempt to quarry chunks of the Walls of Myth out of the walls using Brute Force or maybe Deathly Star as a cutting/blasting laser and harvesting what wreckage we can. Have Aobaru melt salvaged wall chunks and mix those with mundane platinum to get myth infused platinum coins.
 
Last edited:
Some more Synthesize ideas:

Look at how Hunger used his Rank to find the right page in the books. He could try doing the same thing to locate platinum deposits.

Summoning is potential the answer for everything, so he could also try summoning an astral being that can find or make platinum. It would need to be on the weaker end power wise since otherwise these summons can get pricey.
 
Last edited:
I think claims that Skyward Claim does little for our companions despite that being it's whole focus to be a bit dubious. I think just the synergy where we can have Aeira give Planetary levels of stealth with the option is already a great boon to or versatility, never mind getting another planetary scale combatant. I definitely think it will come up in more situations than the deadly laser, even though we will likely wish we had Deathly star harder when we do need it.
 
It's an Amplitude kind of thing; just because something has infinite uses doesn't mean that we will actually use any of those - instead, you will just use most efficient one as default.

Most efficient use of Skyward Claim is to buff Hunger. That spell doesn't do this base merely makes it a matter of circumventing it to get the stats. And with Gisena's ability to make abilities at will, we have pretty obvious plan of action. There would be some work involved, obviously, and shit wouldn't work from start, but it's the most important part of this Sign still.

I mean, we'd find a way to translate Rank into stats eventually, but this is likely the fastest and cheapest way to do it.

But yeah, not having Star would kinda suck absolute ass in good chunk of scenarios. No need to be greedy, given our current situation and stuff, so we can afford to just play it safe here.
 
Back
Top