I understand this, I'm just expressing surprise there isn't a more mundane magical solution to the problem.
A Harry Potter Quest: He who was not
- Thread starter Tabula Rasa
- Start date
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
[X] She had become nothing but a monster – You had been created out of nothing but the results of evil. Those that had been betrayed died without knowing their fate. They had been sealed to nurture an experiment and to create something that was wrong to exist and now you must live with this burden, for it is on you to carry her sin until the day that you died.
---
Looking at the arguments in favor of the 'great' option a question comes to mind. What is it about 'greatness' in this context that is in anyway worthwhile? People say "terrible but great" as if that means anything. So explain to me the value of "great" that it can make something 'terrible' in any way acceptable.
And please, try to avoid arguments that can be directly applied to advocacy of things like "murdering half our species". I want clever.
Out of three shitty options, the negative consequences of the 'monster' one is the easiest to mitigate.
---
Looking at the arguments in favor of the 'great' option a question comes to mind. What is it about 'greatness' in this context that is in anyway worthwhile? People say "terrible but great" as if that means anything. So explain to me the value of "great" that it can make something 'terrible' in any way acceptable.
And please, try to avoid arguments that can be directly applied to advocacy of things like "murdering half our species". I want clever.
Out of three shitty options, the negative consequences of the 'monster' one is the easiest to mitigate.
Varder
Tired Cultist
- Location
- Hell
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
And this is the worst thing. Characters without flaws to overcome are bland and boring. "She did something great" is a natural progression of Jacob's near obssessive curiosity and will tie with it to be a great narrative flaw that Jacob will have to grow out of. Which I consider to be a saving grace, because otherwise he has no real flaws or personal challenges, which makes his personality easily the weakest part of the quest.
And this is the worst thing. Characters without flaws to overcome are bland and boring. "She did something great" is a natural progression of Jacob's near obssessive curiosity and will tie with it to be a great narrative flaw that Jacob will have to grow out of. Which I consider to be a saving grace, because otherwise he has no real flaws or personal challenges, which makes his personality easily the weakest part of the quest.
Last edited:
8th pirate king
People scream weird when you stab them.
- Location
- ny
Nobody is trying to argue that the murder of hundreds of people is acceptable. It's a massive feat of acquiring hundreds of souls and then fusing together to create a unique existence which is an impressive feat. It's just fucking metal and I'd prefer a slightly dark protagonist to moppy edge lord.
- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
You know what?
Fuck it.
I know being sad and guilty about it is morally superior. I am worried about high praise second option gives... but ultimately, I don't really care?
Jacob is essentially a wizard Arrancar. A detective wizard Arrancar.
The fact that each and every Hollow is it's own little hell never stopped me from merry reading of Number None or Destiny of Strife (which also feature protagonists who pursues witch arts, amongst other things).
If anything, it makes me quite excited and fascinated. What exactly is a soul? What did Jacob inherit from his "donors"? How does he differ from a normal human? Is there a soul-deep difference between a wizard and a muggle? Would muggle soul added to the mix change Jacob? Can he (theoretically of course) add more souls to himself??? So many questions.
I honestly hope Jacob gets his feelings in order and get the personal epiphanies out of the way soon.
Why? Because his nature is far too interesting to cry over it. Also, I don't mind Jacob as he is. A stable long-term relationship or two would be enough for me to consider him "sufficiently human" or whatever is the name for it, but that's it.
You know what?
Fuck it.
I know being sad and guilty about it is morally superior. I am worried about high praise second option gives... but ultimately, I don't really care?
Jacob is essentially a wizard Arrancar. A detective wizard Arrancar.
The fact that each and every Hollow is it's own little hell never stopped me from merry reading of Number None or Destiny of Strife (which also feature protagonists who pursues witch arts, amongst other things).
If anything, it makes me quite excited and fascinated. What exactly is a soul? What did Jacob inherit from his "donors"? How does he differ from a normal human? Is there a soul-deep difference between a wizard and a muggle? Would muggle soul added to the mix change Jacob? Can he (theoretically of course) add more souls to himself??? So many questions.
I honestly hope Jacob gets his feelings in order and get the personal epiphanies out of the way soon.
Why? Because his nature is far too interesting to cry over it. Also, I don't mind Jacob as he is. A stable long-term relationship or two would be enough for me to consider him "sufficiently human" or whatever is the name for it, but that's it.
- Location
- Australia
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
- Location
- UTC+0
- Pronouns
- He/Him/They
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
- Location
- In the ocean of my heart
I don't understand why people want to make him villainfy his grandmother figure who loved him...
People don't forget the world is not black and white.
People don't forget the world is not black and white.
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
Light
A world without Light would be Dark.
- Location
- United States
It's truly the greater good.
From Jacob's perspective here, what Perenelle did was more akin to reincarnation than what the Dementors do.
Furthermore, it is necessary for a variety of reasons.
1. The most obvious problem related to this is the Dementors that Jacob could take up the goal of killing in general.
2. The less obvious problem related to this is just that, less obvious problems. Sally-Anne would be facing a fate worse than death otherwise, for example. This is without going into Wizarding society being built in a rather problematic way.
3. The afterlife is questionable, so Jacob's creation could literally result in the salvation of all life, including that which has already died.
4. As much as we are told about the likes of Astronomy... we don't know what's out there. More than that, we have reason to doubt that anything is out there. In a universe where intelligent spiders can arise from normal spiders, poltergeists have come into existence from nothing, and humanity can evacuate the planet, the concept of the Great Filter is much more terrifying due to how much easier it for life to rise and thrive.
Last edited:
- Location
- being near locations is my passion.
Well, you've certainly (as far as I can tell) succeeded in avoiding making any arguments that can be applied to attempts at advocating for killing vast swaths of our species.
Unfortunately, I am utterly lost as to what you are talking about, though to be fair, my question was a challenging one - as in, from my perspective I did not expect I would get a satisfactory answer.
Unfortunately, I am utterly lost as to what you are talking about, though to be fair, my question was a challenging one - as in, from my perspective I did not expect I would get a satisfactory answer.
Light
A world without Light would be Dark.
- Location
- United States
Harry Potter Wizards generally succeed at doing the impossible at only a few things, and that's generally on a small scale if they don't specialize, such as the Peverell brothers individually making the Elder Wand, Resurrection Stone, and Cloak of Invisibility, and the Flamels with Alchemy, as specialists, or Voldemort and Dumbledore having an "impossible" level of general power/skill, but not really achieving anything on that previously mentioned level.
Our protagonist, on the other hand, was built to be a wizard with enough potential to do the impossible on a general level at the same level as specialists, eventually growing far above the likes of Dumbledore and Voldemort, and thus, should have a better chance at addressing those sorts of issues than any other Wizard. And frankly, any one of those issues may be sufficient cause, much less all of them together.
- Location
- California
I don't believe it would be vilifying someone to accurately describe what they did. The grandmother figure tricked her friends for 200 years to harvest their souls in an attempt to build a life for, as far as has been stated, the purpose being to show it could be done and show the genius of her and her husband.
No one is saying the world is black and white, and most of the discussion has avoided that. But, just because a person who did a monsterous thing had did some good things or loved somone does not make what they did any less evil.
Really, the question should be: do we want Jacob to think what she did was laudable or monstrous.
The answer, so far, seems to be that people think that Jacob should think her actions of tricking and sacrificing her friends by harvesting their souls was something that was laudable because it created him or showed that life could be created.
So, if I understand correctly: are you saying that it is worth the harvesting of the souls of one's friends for 200 years to make a single person who has the potential to reach the highest potential in wizarding in any fields rather than having people pop up who are excellent in a few fields? You do note that beings such as Dumbledore or Voldemort already have such levels of power.
Last edited:
- Location
- Canada
[X] She had become nothing but a monster – You had been created out of nothing but the results of evil. Those that had been betrayed died without knowing their fate. They had been sealed to nurture an experiment and to create something that was wrong to exist and now you must live with this burden, for it is on you to carry her sin until the day that you died.
I have to agree this very much feels like a hidden alignment vote. The current leading vote of great will determine how Jacob will go on viewing horrific acts of magic. By acknowledging the horrific act yet admiring the magic more. A detached view of the world in line with eccentric men like Olivander, eccentric men who don't care for good or evil. A type of character that"s valid but not one I wish to play as. I want to be the good guy dueling forces of evil in this quest not the guy who straddles the fence.
Last edited:
- Location
- Spain
You need to close the brackets for your vote to be counted...
Light
A world without Light would be Dark.
- Location
- United States
Personally, I think that what Jacob thinks should depend on the outcome of the vote, as well as match the vote option descriptions.
The only reason why I'm arguing why what Perenelle did was great is that I'm trying to give ideas on how the outcome of the likely winning vote should look.
Beyond that, I'm not particularly opposed to Jacob thinking what Perenelle did was great
If it results in Jacob gaining a sort of god complex like Light from Death Note, Medaka Kurokami from Medaka Box, or the Emperor of Mankind from Warhammer 40k, then I think that would be interesting character development.
Correct any fields to all fields, and answer the problems connected to the following with "a single person with such talent".
1. Dementors are created from negative emotions, and cause them. There exists the risk of the souls of all of humanity being consumed by these beings.
2. How can someone that isn't absurd like Jacob counter the likes of this consistently?
3. How can "a single, talented" Wizard gain insight on the afterlife, much less war against it?
4. How is it implausible for Perenelle to know, or competently guess, of some danger to intelligent life?
- Location
- California
None of those were things that Pernelle herself stated as reasons for creating Jacob. Which, if they were reasons she thought of, would be things she stated in her death bed confession. Also, there is no indication that these problems are such that only someone like Jacob could solve them. Wizards already exist with crazy potential, as you noted, so I am not sure why you are saying that the process to make Jacob was necessary.
Ah. If that is your reason, that is fine. It's why votes exist. I, myself, would prefer not to have a sociopathic protagonist.
Kufufu
Adequate at best
- Location
- What's it to ya?
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
I just can't bear the thought of him seeing a loved one as a monster, and I feel like this is a valuable lesson for him remember, so it has my vote.
I just can't bear the thought of him seeing a loved one as a monster, and I feel like this is a valuable lesson for him remember, so it has my vote.
Light
A world without Light would be Dark.
- Location
- United States
I actually voted for the "Monster" option myself.
As for whether Jacob would be a sociopath from this? Not necessarily. Do I think that Jacob should develop into a "proper" person, even if he gains a twisted outlook from this? Sure, that would be decent character development.
Am I alright with Jacob becoming a bit twisted from this and still pursuing good, despite being mentally unbalanced? Absolutely, that seems entertaining.
[X] She had become nothing but a monster – You had been created out of nothing but the results of evil. Those that had been betrayed died without knowing their fate. They had been sealed to nurture an experiment and to create something that was wrong to exist and now you must live with this burden, for it is on you to carry her sin until the day that you died.
- Location
- Sweden
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
jaiveer00
Siding With Thanos
- Location
- The Beginning and The End
[X] She had achieved what was great – She was a woman with deep intricate beliefs and someone who had strived to bring those beliefs of hers to life. Where others would have lingered in doubt and hesitated out of fear, she had simply walked on, taking all evil up on her soul to do what was needed in the end. Perenelle Flamel had been one of the few Greats walking the earth, taking the responsibility where her husband could not.
- Location
- Asia
[X] She had achieved what was great
We are assigning an arbitrary amount of evilness to the act of collecting souls. Is it bad ? Undoubtedly.
But we don't know how bad. For all we know, there is no afterlife and souls are just energy that is diffused back into the earth after death.
It is also possible that all the souls that were collected to make Jacob can still pass on to afterlife after his death. We don't know if time makes any difference to souls. So from their point of view, they might not even be feeling anything.
Also, this nowhere compares to a horcrux. Souls in Jacob's case were of people who lived their full lives and died peacefully in their own beds. While collecting their souls is without doubt unethical, please don't compare it to literal murder of innocents.
We are assigning an arbitrary amount of evilness to the act of collecting souls. Is it bad ? Undoubtedly.
But we don't know how bad. For all we know, there is no afterlife and souls are just energy that is diffused back into the earth after death.
It is also possible that all the souls that were collected to make Jacob can still pass on to afterlife after his death. We don't know if time makes any difference to souls. So from their point of view, they might not even be feeling anything.
Also, this nowhere compares to a horcrux. Souls in Jacob's case were of people who lived their full lives and died peacefully in their own beds. While collecting their souls is without doubt unethical, please don't compare it to literal murder of innocents.
[X] She had become nothing but a monster – You had been created out of nothing but the results of evil. Those that had been betrayed died without knowing their fate. They had been sealed to nurture an experiment and to create something that was wrong to exist and now you must live with this burden, for it is on you to carry her sin until the day that you died.
Yikes, certainly didn't expect that.
Yikes, certainly didn't expect that.