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A Simple Transaction I

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You guys don't have any more EFBs you could snap-buy that would suddenly ramp Hunger's power if he gets in too deep, unlike previous times the reckless strategy succeeded...
 
You could simply Crush Them and have almost a guaranteed chance of victory! Who knows if the LP even has enough power & the proper abilities to permanently put Versch down? It's far more reasonable to not risk Hunger's life in the matter...
 
[X] Shock & Reason
[X] Take Adorie

Experience teaches us that leaving enemies alive hardly matters in the long run, as we scale too quickly for them to keep up. So even in the worst-case scenario of us failing to come to a complete accord and the Lord Protector becoming a problem again at a later date, we'll become too powerful by the time he crops up again.

The usual solution of Progression-type Cursebearers everywhere: put it off till it isn't a problem anymore.
 
Oblique means is also pretty good, it takes advantage of our charisma while also summoning an astral being that might be able to save Verch. It's probably the path where Adorie can also help the most.
 
Rihaku said:
You could simply Crush Them and have almost a guaranteed chance of victory! Who knows if the LP even has enough power & the proper abilities to permanently put Versch down? It's far more reasonable to not risk Hunger's life in the matter...
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You never have to put a Forebear mental contamination + on the character sheet if you can get it into the heads of the players instead.
 
Unelemental said:
[X] Shock & Reason
[X] Take Adorie

Experience teaches us that leaving enemies alive hardly matters in the long run, as we scale too quickly for them to keep up. So even in the worst-case scenario of us failing to come to a complete accord and the Lord Protector becoming a problem again at a later date, we'll become too powerful by the time he crops up again.

The usual solution of Progression-type Cursebearers everywhere: put it off till it isn't a problem anymore.
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Mhm. Apocryphal-chan exists though. So that might not work out that well alongside the fact that our growth rate is likely to slow down.
 
I do think rescue Versch is best here simply because it's the very thing stopping us from just Cutting Through. It would be quite a shame to lose him after we already made a commitment to return to the Human Sphere as well.
Strange9 said:
I admit I'm fondest of freeing Versch, but I'm a lil worried about the LP pulling some 'you kill mine --> I kill yours' sympathetic magic on our companions, the same way he abducted Versch.
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With what though? We aren't killing Versch. And even so, all you would be doing is trading the potential death of Versch against the potential death of one of our other companions; not much change in the end.
Rihaku said:
I can understand the impulse to prioritize rescuing Versch, but to confront a wizard's obvious trap on prepared ground... does even Hunger have strength overwhelming enough to attempt so reckless a course while the Apocryphal Curse has not recently triggered? And Claumngor's full strength is still unknown as well...

The intelligence to recognize a trap, the wisdom to know that pursuing it could be a bad idea, and yet the recklessness still to venture forth anyway... directly attempting to rescue Versch would surely be playing into the LP's moment of maximum leverage, and though Hunger is considerably stronger than both LP and his attendant Legions, this would be one of the only ways the LP might manage to neutralize that difference in strength! Versch's life is important, but what about your own? You have seen what comes of underestimating the LP in the past.
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Legit think there aren't any good options here. Crush risks the death of Versch, Oblique plays into the strengths of the Lord Protector, and Shock has similar risks to Crush and leaves with a potential enemy on our flanks, never mind what he'd actually ask to release Versch, given his value. Taking risks for the sake of others is the heroic thing to do, after all.

In my mind, the options are Rescue>Oblique>Shock>Crush as the choices least likely to lose us stuff, with Crush having the most obvious consequences of the lot. I'd rather risk it all and get it all than to accept Versch loss or letting the Lord Protector stay a problem. It's certainly not a break from pattern, I'll tell you that.

And well, might as well vote for this, unless Rihaku has some Stance that would improve our odds of victory; we do have a free slot for one.

[X] Rescue Versch
[X] Take Adorie
[X] Buy Undying Vanguard

Unelemental said:
Experience teaches us that leaving enemies alive hardly matters in the long run, as we scale too quickly for them to keep up. So even in the worst-case scenario of us failing to come to a complete accord and the Lord Protector becoming a problem again at a later date, we'll become too powerful by the time he crops up again.

The usual solution of Progression-type Cursebearers everywhere: put it off till it isn't a problem anymore.
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The problem isn't the Lord Protector blasting off again, the problem is the Lord Protector getting a favorable deal which he can just use to screw us over in the short-term. Or just keeping his rule while innocents suffer because Hunger gave his word, which is sure not to go over well. The negotiations can simply fail too, and we'd be in completely worse position than had we chosen anything else. We don't give him time to prepare; we rescue Versch because we need him then we just go to town. Negotiation could be legitimately risky, especially if he tries to stall which is something in his complete interest. No need to give up our Arena and go into his, let's just keep this simple.
 
BrainInAJar said:
I do think rescue Versch is best here simply because it's the very thing stopping us from just Cutting Through. It would be quite a shame to lose him after we already made a commitment to return to the Human Sphere as well.

With what though? We aren't killing Versch. And even so, all you would be doing is trading the potential death of Versch against the potential death of one of our other companions; not much change in the end.

Legit think there aren't any good options here. Crush risks the death of Versch, Oblique plays into the strengths of the Lord Protector, and Shock has similar risks to Crush and leaves with a potential enemy on our flanks, never mind what he'd actually ask to release Versch, given his value. Taking risks for the sake of others is the heroic thing to do, after all.

In my mind, the options are Rescue>Oblique>Shock>Crush as the choices least likely to lose us stuff, with Crush having the most obvious consequences of the lot. I'd rather risk it all and get it all than to accept Versch loss or letting the Lord Protector stay a problem. It's certainly not a break from pattern, I'll tell you that.

And well, might as well vote for this, unless Rihaku has some Stance that would improve our odds of victory; we do have a free slot for one.

[X] Rescue Versch
[X] Take Adorie
[X] Buy Undying Vanguard


The problem isn't the Lord Protector blasting off again, the problem is the Lord Protector getting a favorable deal which he can just use to screw us over in the short-term. Or just keeping his rule while innocents suffer because Hunger gave his word, which is sure not to go over well. The negotiations can simply fail too, and we'd be in completely worse position than had we chosen anything else. We don't give him time to prepare; we rescue Versch because we need him then we just go to town. Negotiation could be legitimately risky, especially if he tries to stall which is something in his complete interest. No need to give up our Arena and go into his, let's just keep this simple.
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I don't think Hunger is going to accept Lord Protector remaining the ruler. He did make an deal with Adorie after all though I don't like the idea of leaving such an savvy snek behind for her to deal with.
 
Rihaku said:
*The power of the Mirellyian bloodline is immense, but she's received little training in how to tap into it, her parents having been slaughtered while she was very small. In theory, it should awaken during times of dire need...
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Bloodline, you say? Could we just awaken her bloodline ourselves with Bloodcasting?
 
BrainInAJar said:
The problem isn't the Lord Protector blasting off again, the problem is the Lord Protector getting a favorable deal which he can just use to screw us over in the short-term. Or just keeping his rule while innocents suffer because Hunger gave his word, which is sure not to go over well. The negotiations can simply fail too, and we'd be in completely worse position than had we chosen anything else. We don't give him time to prepare; we rescue Versch because we need him then we just go to town. Negotiation could be legitimately risky, especially if he tries to stall which is something in his complete interest. No need to give up our Arena and go into his, let's just keep this simple.
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So we don't give him a favorable deal. If he was some insane maniac or we were less adept socially I would be more worried, but his life should be more important to him than anything else. He has much more to lose than us on account of Hunger holding being more powerful and thus in a position to dicate terms, that's the whole point of showcasing our strength beforehand. It's called out as the option that fully utilizes our abilities in the blurb, both our martial strength and our social prowess. The problems the blurb lists are long-term ones, and as I mentioned, we don't actually care about that due to our Progression.

Certainly beats running headlong into a trap he set up.
 
[X] Oblique Means.
[X] Take Adorie
[X] Buy Undying Vanguard

Oh I'm all aboard the rescue Versh train, I just want to have a summon help us do it/counter LP while we're doing so.
Undying Vanguard to keep Adorie and honestly the rest of our party safe.

Oblique Means... hey if Adorie's with us that means she can partially foot the bill of getting the Astral Summon's services right?
Essentially she sold us a property with a lien on it and they repossessed our means of transport. She can pay off the difference, and honestly I'd be more comfortable going into a trade negotiation with whatever Adorie feels like she can put up for collateral to help save her kingdom.
 
Unelemental said:
So we don't give him a favorable deal. If he was some insane maniac or we were less adept socially I would be more worried, but his life should be more important to him than anything else. He has much more to lose than us on account of Hunger holding being more powerful and thus in a position to dicate terms, that's the whole point of showcasing our strength beforehand. It's called out as the option that fully utilizes our abilities in the blurb, both our martial strength and our social prowess. The problems the blurb lists are long-term ones, and as I mentioned, we don't actually care about that due to our Progression.

Certainly beats running headlong into a trap he set up.
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The problem with that is the fact we don't actually have full leverage on him because he has Versch. We can't push him too far or he threatens him. We could call his bluff like in Crush, with similar consequences being possible. If we were simply stronger than him then negotiating would be pretty pointless, so the only point of doing it is that it doesn't risk Versch. But if we are unwilling to risk him, then that's quite the davnatge the Lord Protector has. That's why I think we should prioritize getting him back.
 
...Guys. Rihaku's repeatedly warning us that Rescue Versch is risky. He does not give such warnings without reason. We should listen.

Also, I should point out that Oblique potentially gives us the opportunity to spend Arete (on what summon we get, or on Gisena making something, or some other vote point thing). Being able to spend Arete would be good here, if ever there was a time to be buying something to bail us out it would be this one.
 
BrainInAJar said:
The problem with that is the fact we don't actually have full leverage on him because he has Versch. We can't push him too far or he threatens him. We could call his bluff like in Crush, with similar consequences being possible. If we were simply stronger than him then negotiating would be pretty pointless, so the only point of doing it is that it doesn't risk Versch. But if we are unwilling to risk him, then that's quite the davnatge the Lord protector has,. That's why I think we should prioritize getting him.
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The question is really simple: is Versch more important to us than the Lord Protector's life is to him? We can deal with losing Versch, even if it would cause much sadness, but for him it's over if he decides to push the button. We're in a superior position to negotiate and he isn't some implacable enemy we have to kill no matter what, we should take advantage of it.
 
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Unelemental said:
The question is really simple: is Versch more important to us than the Lord Protector's life is to him? We can deal with losing Versch, even if it would cause much sadness, but for him it's over if he decides to push the button. We're in a superior position to negotiate and he isn't some implacable enemy we have to de
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I don't actually think there's 0 chance of him pulling the metaphorical trigger given the explicit warnings of Crush Them. We do have to proceed as if there are significant risks for Versch. And again if you are fine with risking Versch, why negotiate at all? We can just kill him. No need to give him even a chance to inconvenience us or Adorie. Just kill him.
 
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