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A Simple Transaction I

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Unelemental said:
Hmm, Fisher King says it only gives +50% AllStats for literal fishing. But... nothing says we can't fight by fishing, right? If we get the Rod of Ages as an Artifact, fishing could become an integral part of our fighting style, so that boost would apply much more often.
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50% All Stats is not as good as you might think. For example, that would move our Agi from like 240% to 290%.

Not insignificant, of course, but not all that major either, especially given how specialized it is.
Regretting the Hunter's Moon a bit now, tbh. This seems to be a different form of Mitigation, which means that its effectiveness is reduced by 40%.
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Fisher King works amazingly well with Pillars and Hunter's Moon, however. Remember, one of big things with Pillars is getting FREE Hunger Sated targets; before, we were informed that Pillars would be incapable of providing us enough targets for complete mitigation. However, with Fisher King, you get twice the chance to proc Hunger Sated and it lasts for twice as long! It might very well get us close to full coverage of mitigation when used with Pillars!

Additionally, assuming it's effects work of Armament Fish too, that would mean additional month of Hunger Sated from get go.
 
Wolfy said:
Either Stranglethorn or Sharpening the Blade. Blade costs some Arete, but not picking Stranglethorn means that we can get it after RR for extra value.

As an aside, do consider that Fisher King gives us both double proc rate and double duration of Hunger Sated for fish targets, which would vastly increase utility of using Pillars for Hunger Sated mitigation.
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Yeah, but it also means we don't get Pillars right away. And without knowing how long the current round of Sated is going to last, I don't want to risk there being a gap of time between when Pillars procs and we get our next round of Sated, and the expiration of the current round of Sated.

Also, Fisher King is too much of a meme vote for my liking.

Although it DOES come with mental stat increases... but then, I'm pretty sure Sharpening does too...

SMRT team is conflicted!
 
Simon_Jester said:
Yeah, but it also means we don't get Pillars right away. And without knowing how long the current round of Sated is going to last, I don't want to risk there being a gap of time between when Pillars procs and we get our next round of Sated, and the expiration of the current round of Sated.
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We are apparently two weeks of in game time away from next Pillars proc - as such, delaying Pillars is fine as long as get it in those two weeks.

Additionally, if Fisher King applies for Hunger Sated we've got from Armament Fish, we would have another month of Decimator Mitigation.
Also, Fisher King is too much of a meme vote for my liking.
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Man, 10 fucking Accursed Favor. For comparison, Seram had:
Accursed Favor: 3 (Not Uninterested)
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Simon_Jester said:
Yeah, but it also means we don't get Pillars right away. And without knowing how long the current round of Sated is going to last, I don't want to risk there being a gap of time between when Pillars procs and we get our next round of Sated, and the expiration of the current round of Sated.

Also, Fisher King is too much of a meme vote for my liking.

Although it DOES come with mental stat increases... but then, I'm pretty sure Sharpening does too...

SMRT team is conflicted!
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The cognitive boosts of Sharpening, while noticable(34 percent more competence in combat modeling it as the sum of intelligence and wisdom) are combat exclusive. Make of that what you will I guess.
 
Conjured Blade's effort post is very good.

One thing that hasn't been fully addressed yet is the horror of weaponizing the Decimator's Affliction. There was some pretty charged rhetoric at the prospect of even a few days of unmitigated Decimation. Turning that effect against every soldier, citizen, visitor, pet, plant, and microbe in lands that haven't capitulated to Hunger yet is... well it is bad.

If you cared about Decimating strangers during the Tower vote, it seems like you should care about Decimating strangers even though their rulers haven't surrendered to Hunger.
 
So I realized other potential venues of attack given our strengths besides anti-rank. Anti-Speedster abilities. Spatial Manipulation. Time loops. Also of course, bloodless automata/golems since we have blood powers and are a cognitohazard.
 
Coming from a fan of Fisher King (who would be inclined to vote for it if Honing/Iri was not pretty good too) I imagine the value of Grail Keeper manifests in two ways:

1.) Deterring Attackers - This basically sets up prolonged sieges for failure, exposing the full might of the Decimation against would be attackers. In a game-theoretic way, a power like this could smoothen the rough edges of rule by preventing opportunistic attacks when we're way. Here I would note that the defensive use of Decimation is considerably more acceptable than an offensive use, since they're the aggressors and we would have murdered them anyway. It also makes negotiations of vassalship easier (submit to us or be subject to the Decimation), but that kind of brinksmanship strikes me as immoral.

2.) Sparing Our Citizens - This power makes the trade-off of food supply and fertility for the duration of the affliction in exchange for years of life. At a basic level, this is preferable since food shortages can be accounted for and the infertility is temporary, while years of life is tangibly valuable to the people they are taken from. Of course, this only realistically manifests in situations where we can't proc A Hunger, Sated. Naturally we want to avoid that situation entirely.
 
Another angle? Cognitohazards exceeding Gisena. Remember how there are eldritch things with mind effecting attacks that are multiple levels up on the ISH per Outer Darkness? While we have notable willpower we are not an ubermonster at it. You'd also consider attacks enchanted with some analogue to Edeldross to restore them as the power of ruin diminishes them.
 
Conjured Blade said:
So I realized other potential venues of attack given our strengths besides anti-rank. Anti-Speedster abilities. Spatial Manipulation. Time loops. Also of course, bloodless automata/golems since we have blood powers and are a cognitohazard.
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Say it with me now: ALL. DEFEATING. STANCE.

What we should be spooked by is the Apocryphal deciding to take potshots at our companions. Now more than ever, we really should pick up Undying Vanguard.
 
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Zampano said:
Conjured Blade's effort post is very good.

One thing that hasn't been fully addressed yet is the horror of weaponizing the Decimator's Affliction. There was some pretty charged rhetoric at the prospect of even a few days of unmitigated Decimation. Turning that effect against every soldier, citizen, visitor, pet, plant, and microbe in lands that haven't capitulated to Hunger yet is... well it is bad.

If you cared about Decimating strangers during the Tower vote, it seems like you should care about Decimating strangers even though their rulers haven't surrendered to Hunger.
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Which is why you get Fisher King, which quadruples amount of Hunger Sated we get out of Pillars, yes.
 
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]

It's just too much Accursed Favour. I keep trying to reason things out and remember our plan and realise this doesn't actually give us any immediate power or swift potential to develop or think about how this is a lot of non-Pillars spending that'll occupy our increasingly rare picks or how we'll need more power to deal with any tricks the Apocryphal pulls.

But my mind always ends up circling back to that sweet, sweet +10 Accursed Favour. That's like 5 Major Curses worth for Seram. It's so much. I don't even know if it would have any tangible effects or be useful to us in anything but the long term but god that's a lot of Favour. From the Accursed!

How could anyone turn it down?
 
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[X] Sharpening the Blade

We've passed up Iridescence for quite a while now; time to finally pick it up. This option provides substantial combat upgrades for a very low price, important when we technically haven't dealt with the Lord Protector yet.

Fisher King would provide some very powerful mitigation yes, and it basically seems to be an EFB Defining Advancement; I'm tempted to pick it just for that. But I prefer to focus on getting other EFBs for the future, especially something like Pillar which would provide similar effects for mitigation. I think getting that sooner would be better for us not only in terms of lessening the Decimator's Affliction, but for grinding picks as well; who knows maybe we can use it to be offered this again.

But uh, now that we have an actual monetary price-point for mechanical advantages in the quest, Fisher King is technically worth 1200$ dollars in just Accursed Favor. Just, yeah...
 
BrainInAJar said:
something like Pillar which would provide similar effects for mitigation.
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Pillar wouldn't provide similar effects for mitigation; rather, it's stacks amazingly well with what Fisher King offers.

But, lets compare them. Both Fisher King and Pillars of Eternity improve our ability to Mitigate Decimation. Fisher King increases number of fish targets, and then doubles duration of Hunger Sated if the target was fish - in theory, if we were to hunt only fish targets, this would halve number of times we'd have to hunt for Hunger Sated. Needless to say, having to spend half as much time on hunting will make many things that much easier.

Pillars, on the other hand, allows us to create Hunger Sated targets. This ability is not perfect, meaning that we will have to hunt outside too; exact coverage of Pillars is unknown - it could give us only two Hunger Sated targets per year, or perhaps ten of them.

However, these two options work especially well when put together:
  • Fisher King increases chance of us triggering Hunger Sated, meaning that Pillars has greater chance of giving us Hunger Sated target, making Pillars way more consistent
  • Fisher King gives us more duration for Hunger Sated found in Pillars; this means that we need less overall Hunger Sated targets which, with above, vastly increase % of time per year that is covered by Pillar provided Hunger Sated
  • As we don't need to use Pillars for Hunger Sated as much, we can use it to advance and stuff
  • In likely case that Pillars still doesn't offer perfect coverage through the year(i.e. it covers 10/12 months), Fisher King's own ability still works as usual, meaning that it's easier for us to find Hunger Sated target in the real world and that we need less of them
And, beyond all of this, Fisher King also offers us second stage of Decimator Mitigation, by allowing it to ravage our body rather than our subjects.

Overall? Pillars and Fisher King will combine to almost perfectly mitigate Decimator Curse. We will have some Progression minus and we will have to hunt here and there, but it's as close as completely mitigating Curse as we can get.

And yes you also get 10 fucking Favor lol.
 
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Thinking about things from a framing standpoint. If we're going to ask Adorie to look into signs for us later in the quest... where we're more powerful then we are now and picks will be scarcer, will the 4th or 5th sign be worthy of our time? If we're going to ask Adorie to research signs for us in the future, ensuring she starts at the 6th sign means it's more likely to be worth the effort our more powerful self put into it.
 
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]

"The most powerful being in the multiverse likes me more" is probably the single most powerful option we can take. Unless we would literally die without picking something else, I don't see why we would jump into all this favour with everything we can, not to mention increased mitigation from Huntress' Moon, mental stats and +50% Rank Growth in a Rank Build. It's incredible and is well worth the 5 pick/24 Arete price.
 
agumentic said:
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]

"The most powerful being in the multiverse likes me more" is probably the single most powerful option we can take. Unless we would literally die without picking something else, I don't see why we would jump into all this favour with everything we can, not to mention increased mitigation from Huntress' Moon, mental stats and +50% Rank Growth in a Rank Build. It's incredible and is well worth the 5 pick/24 Arete price.
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We have no idea what accursed favor does, so the question is how well does the non-accursed favor part fulfill our goals. Fairly well I think which is why I'm approval voting it but there's other good options, like Pillars if we end up with enough Arete or Hastening SIgns because the sheer level of bullshit that is Armor of Midnight is practically guaranteed to be relevant against Aobaru's terminator.
 
I looked at Fisher King long enough, and convinced myself that +50% rank growth is bonkers, and +10 Accursed Favor might mean bonuses in Praxis training.

[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
 
Conjured Blade said:
We have no idea what accursed favor does, so the question is how well does the non-accursed favor part fulfill our goals. Fairly well I think which is why I'm approval voting it but there's other good options, like Pillars if we end up with enough Arete or Hastening SIgns because the sheer level of bullshit that is Armor of Midnight is practically guaranteed to be relevant against Aobaru's terminator.
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Pillars are great, but they don't do anything for two weeks in-game. We cleared the entire Temple and bought two EFBs in less - and that was before our Arete generation was doubled. Considering Pillars are unlocked and so we can buy them at any time, I think we can safely leave them until we're closer to the activation date.
 
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