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A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
So. Given that I have just seen Rihaku's comment on ADS and magic defense, I think it's questionable whether or not it would make a difference in the immediate term at all if our Power of Ruin blocks anti-rank attack X.
[x]Hasten Signs
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
[x]Pillars of Creation
[x]Hasten Signs
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
[x]Pillars of Creation
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ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Some random one-armed dude can go from "Wow ++Protection and ++Charisma is good, but 7 Arete is so expensive..." to "When am I getting that third EFB, also I need 12 more Arete for PRAXIS, I'll do it in a day."
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Whatever we get, our second sign was esoteric defense, and our third sign had weather control and astral denizen summoning as options. If Hasten Signs wins, we can get something with even more utility value than Astral Denizen Summoning and/or Weather control.
- Location
- USA
But shouldn't picking Pillars with saving let us generate more picks?
Nvm, I see this was answered already.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Eh. I'm going to hold off on backing Pillars for the moment.
[x]Hasten Signs
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
[x]Hasten Signs
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
There's always Pathway to Idyll (if there ever was an Advancement named for Nameless), though that's another 7 Arete and restricts Hunger's ability to train/augment himself. Maybe taking Tower circumvents some of those restrictions, but maybe not. Still, would be nice to witness the power of a fully armed and operational
Is that confirmation that Tower-boosted Pillars has no increase in frequency?
We should just get Stranglethorn or Sharpening for now, though. Double-dipping on magic resistance is insurance against whatever bullshit the Protector'll pull out when we get back to Nilfel. We can nip that sidequest in the bud, restore Adorie to her throne, then try to leave the Voyaging and get a headstart on face-tanking whatever apocalypse it throws at us. We may yet come to regret the Apocryphal not trying to throw Bearic a last-minute powerup, it means the Curse is conserving credibility.
Jesus fuck, that's a 5 pick 24 arete DA right there. The most powerful Advancement we have been offered, ever. Perhaps even better than a damn Remittance. Five fucking picks. Only reason we can get it is CP.
Man, getting two Signs would sure be something. Quite expensive tho.
[X] Stranglethorn
Lets go with this for now.
Man, getting two Signs would sure be something. Quite expensive tho.
[X] Stranglethorn
Lets go with this for now.
The value of Pillars is Picks that can be provided on a monthly basis without worrying about them, targets for A Hunger Sated and also the ability to heal our wounds and those of our allies. I would rather have a backup plan for decimation mitigation and training in reserve rather than worry later. We have outscaled the threats for now and the only issue is the Fate's terminator that wants to kill Aobaru. With the help of Pillars we can continue our training in the Human Sphere without worrying too much, which is not something the other options can boast.
Also Fisher King is a meme, +10 Accursed Favor means nothing if we don't know what we can use it for and the exchange rate. A wish could be 50 Accursed favors and we are shit out of luck. Basic advancements like Honing are great and cheap. Stranglethorn is good as well but we will be lacking power due to it being 4 pick.
Went back and did a reaction post for chapter 1, knowing what we know now.
An interesting way to start the story, especially given the parallels between Hunger and the Forebear. Perhaps he's even literally done this all before.
Looking at this, it's hard not to see Hunger and the Tyrant as pawns in some greater game.
What is destiny, why did it make Hunger the hero, why does it decree the Tyrant's death, and what gives it the right to make that decree? Everything happens for a reason, after all. And who, or what, are destiny's stewards?
And then there's the Tyrant, who given what we've been told is almost certainly being aided by the Hidden Ones.
I've already written my theory about the Accursed creating heroes and destiny, and the Hidden Ones opposing it, so I'll stop here.
There's that word again, "Procession". Like the Forebear and his endless descent ever deeper into hell.
I wonder what would have happened if Hunger had died here instead of being saved by the Accursed. Would he have died for real? Or would he have lived the Forebear's life, told his story, all over again?
"Every story spoken has been spoken before", but then the Accursed comes to end all stories.
What does that even mean, the end of stories? Normally I'd say that this means the Accursed is opposed to concepts like fate and destiny, which make men into puppets that act out stories. But at least here it seems that destiny was on Hunger's side.
And remember the Ur-Mother's claim that the Forebear was "reducing ineffably the grandeur of all that is". There are worlds where evil won and all history became nothing more than a boot stamping on a human face forever, and the Ur-mother thinks such worlds make for a better omniverse, but if the Forebear (and whoever cursed him? And the Accursed?) had their way then only the stories with happy endings would remain.
Like Orm pointed out, this is quite a large reaction from what appears to be the most powerful being we've ever encountered. Hunger's last decade was a tough one, but plenty of people suffer far worse with the only reward being a shallow grave.
The mention of wisdom is also interesting in light of the Forebear's notes. 'Quick is the plunge to stagnation, once one's goals are attained.' Perhaps that is the wisdom behind my interminable journey. If so, have I any choice but the repudiation of all wisdom?
I can't believe I have to say this but yes, power for the sake of power is a struggle that has no end. Maybe for some people, like Sisyphus, the struggle itself is enough, and the thought of an endless journey into ever greater power is enticing. But for normal people you get enough power to attain all your goals and then you stop.
I checked and the Accursed did not use this language when speaking to Seram. So the Accursed's promise to Hunger is individual to Hunger and not just the standard cursebearer spiel.
"No blade you cannot sunder", and we got the weapon-defeating stance.
"No force you cannot rout" is pretty generic and not special to us. Unless maybe there's a foe-routing stance?
"No foe you cannot ruin" and look at our power of ruin.
"No throne you cannot claim" is pretty generic for all Cursebearers with Indenture but we did get feat crown.
Not much to speculate on here, she's exactly what her stat block makes her out to be. Given how good he is at this maybe the Accursed should set up a dating service?
Obviously bred by the AmarIt family to pilot Armaments. There's no point in giving your pilot powers, compared to a rank 10 god-machine the only powers that are relevant are powers that empower the mech further.
I wonder if she would count as a Praehihr? We know from the Tears that non-cursebearers can count as Praehihrs, and it seems like a logical thing for a program breeding pilots to pursue.
Definitely the most directly powerful of our companions, at least as long as she has something she could pilot, and her lineage could lead to interesting results once we got back to the human sphere. But at the same time I'd feel a bit sorry for poor Letrizia, who'd be even more sidelined and useless than she already is.
The most mysterious of the three characters, in my opinion. We've seen plenty of connections between Gisena's word and this world, things like the orcs and golden eyes and Findross and maybe Elixier, but my memory is the only connection we've seen to Nameless's world are the rings and the temple lich.
We never did learn about that potential lich in the Temple did we?
So many mysteries, it's almost enough for me to wish we'd taken another curse...
I still have a lot of questions about this ring that haven't been answered. How did the Tyrant get this ring, why was it defiled, what connection does it have to all the other rings?
That aside it makes a lot of sense to give this to Hunger. Want Vendetta and to power up? This will do the trick. Want to take it easy and enjoy life after a trillion years spent in the Procession? This'll help.
I do hope we find more ways around that training nerf though. I'd hate to stall out during time-skips.
The most mysterious of the three, given we didn't pick it. Both Ring and Sword have plot threads attached to them, the Ring being from Nameless's world and the Sword having the Forebear, but what about the Talon? I was thinking it's a dragon talon, seeing as how dragons have talons and obsess over wealth. Pretty easy to build a nice hoard if your enemies explode into gold rings when they die.
The connection between Hunger and the Forebear has already been discussed. One thing to point out is that the sword assumes "a new form well-suited to the character and strengths of its master", but the sword starts out as a bastard sword in "Heart of the Matter" and to my memory has retained the same form, making this yet another point of similarity between Hunger and the Forebear. Perhaps it would have changed if "Just a moment" had won? I guess we'll never know.
1070 words
An interesting way to start the story, especially given the parallels between Hunger and the Forebear. Perhaps he's even literally done this all before.
Looking at this, it's hard not to see Hunger and the Tyrant as pawns in some greater game.
What is destiny, why did it make Hunger the hero, why does it decree the Tyrant's death, and what gives it the right to make that decree? Everything happens for a reason, after all. And who, or what, are destiny's stewards?
And then there's the Tyrant, who given what we've been told is almost certainly being aided by the Hidden Ones.
I've already written my theory about the Accursed creating heroes and destiny, and the Hidden Ones opposing it, so I'll stop here.
There's that word again, "Procession". Like the Forebear and his endless descent ever deeper into hell.
I wonder what would have happened if Hunger had died here instead of being saved by the Accursed. Would he have died for real? Or would he have lived the Forebear's life, told his story, all over again?
"Every story spoken has been spoken before", but then the Accursed comes to end all stories.
What does that even mean, the end of stories? Normally I'd say that this means the Accursed is opposed to concepts like fate and destiny, which make men into puppets that act out stories. But at least here it seems that destiny was on Hunger's side.
And remember the Ur-Mother's claim that the Forebear was "reducing ineffably the grandeur of all that is". There are worlds where evil won and all history became nothing more than a boot stamping on a human face forever, and the Ur-mother thinks such worlds make for a better omniverse, but if the Forebear (and whoever cursed him? And the Accursed?) had their way then only the stories with happy endings would remain.
Like Orm pointed out, this is quite a large reaction from what appears to be the most powerful being we've ever encountered. Hunger's last decade was a tough one, but plenty of people suffer far worse with the only reward being a shallow grave.
The mention of wisdom is also interesting in light of the Forebear's notes. 'Quick is the plunge to stagnation, once one's goals are attained.' Perhaps that is the wisdom behind my interminable journey. If so, have I any choice but the repudiation of all wisdom?
I can't believe I have to say this but yes, power for the sake of power is a struggle that has no end. Maybe for some people, like Sisyphus, the struggle itself is enough, and the thought of an endless journey into ever greater power is enticing. But for normal people you get enough power to attain all your goals and then you stop.
I checked and the Accursed did not use this language when speaking to Seram. So the Accursed's promise to Hunger is individual to Hunger and not just the standard cursebearer spiel.
"No blade you cannot sunder", and we got the weapon-defeating stance.
"No force you cannot rout" is pretty generic and not special to us. Unless maybe there's a foe-routing stance?
"No foe you cannot ruin" and look at our power of ruin.
"No throne you cannot claim" is pretty generic for all Cursebearers with Indenture but we did get feat crown.
Not much to speculate on here, she's exactly what her stat block makes her out to be. Given how good he is at this maybe the Accursed should set up a dating service?
Obviously bred by the AmarIt family to pilot Armaments. There's no point in giving your pilot powers, compared to a rank 10 god-machine the only powers that are relevant are powers that empower the mech further.
I wonder if she would count as a Praehihr? We know from the Tears that non-cursebearers can count as Praehihrs, and it seems like a logical thing for a program breeding pilots to pursue.
Definitely the most directly powerful of our companions, at least as long as she has something she could pilot, and her lineage could lead to interesting results once we got back to the human sphere. But at the same time I'd feel a bit sorry for poor Letrizia, who'd be even more sidelined and useless than she already is.
The most mysterious of the three characters, in my opinion. We've seen plenty of connections between Gisena's word and this world, things like the orcs and golden eyes and Findross and maybe Elixier, but my memory is the only connection we've seen to Nameless's world are the rings and the temple lich.
We never did learn about that potential lich in the Temple did we?
So many mysteries, it's almost enough for me to wish we'd taken another curse...
I still have a lot of questions about this ring that haven't been answered. How did the Tyrant get this ring, why was it defiled, what connection does it have to all the other rings?
That aside it makes a lot of sense to give this to Hunger. Want Vendetta and to power up? This will do the trick. Want to take it easy and enjoy life after a trillion years spent in the Procession? This'll help.
I do hope we find more ways around that training nerf though. I'd hate to stall out during time-skips.
The most mysterious of the three, given we didn't pick it. Both Ring and Sword have plot threads attached to them, the Ring being from Nameless's world and the Sword having the Forebear, but what about the Talon? I was thinking it's a dragon talon, seeing as how dragons have talons and obsess over wealth. Pretty easy to build a nice hoard if your enemies explode into gold rings when they die.
The connection between Hunger and the Forebear has already been discussed. One thing to point out is that the sword assumes "a new form well-suited to the character and strengths of its master", but the sword starts out as a bastard sword in "Heart of the Matter" and to my memory has retained the same form, making this yet another point of similarity between Hunger and the Forebear. Perhaps it would have changed if "Just a moment" had won? I guess we'll never know.
1070 words
Alright, let's talk about options. We have three options - first is taking either Stranglethorn or value pack and SAVING for Pillars. It doesn't really matter which we take, both are good. Value of saving for Pillars is self-evident.
The second is getting Signs. That is just pure fuck power option, even if that power is likely to come in form of utility. Really, Signs are really powerful, so they are easily worth the price. However, I don't think we really need power now, nor are we lacking powerful Advancements, so this is not a priority.
And then there's fucking Fisher King. Ten Accursed Favor? You will remember that you were offered a point of Accursed Favor in Lesser Remittance choice, it being a alternative to Hunger, Blade or Gisena. You get fucking ten of them right now. That's like 250 Arete of value, Jesus.
Of course, it's a complete mystery box, but its value is clearly through the roof.
This vote, I feel, comes down to simple question - do we want to SAVE for Pillars, or do we want to commit and try and grab hilarious amount of value locked behind the Fisher King...
You know, fuck it, we can get Pillars later
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
Fucking shinnies
The second is getting Signs. That is just pure fuck power option, even if that power is likely to come in form of utility. Really, Signs are really powerful, so they are easily worth the price. However, I don't think we really need power now, nor are we lacking powerful Advancements, so this is not a priority.
And then there's fucking Fisher King. Ten Accursed Favor? You will remember that you were offered a point of Accursed Favor in Lesser Remittance choice, it being a alternative to Hunger, Blade or Gisena. You get fucking ten of them right now. That's like 250 Arete of value, Jesus.
Of course, it's a complete mystery box, but its value is clearly through the roof.
This vote, I feel, comes down to simple question - do we want to SAVE for Pillars, or do we want to commit and try and grab hilarious amount of value locked behind the Fisher King...
You know, fuck it, we can get Pillars later
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
Fucking shinnies
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
It would kinda suck to get Stranglethorn/Fisher King before getting the Ruling Ring honestly. They're so good right now, imagine how much more powerful they'd become when those four/five picks get ++Progression applied to them. Considering the limited opportunity that Core Panoply represents, I'd rather we get our money's worth if at all possible. It's not like we don't have plenty of viable alternatives as far as spending goes.
The Tears of Winter and the Sky themes of our Mantle & Tower could be seen as a connection too.
Man, this would have been pretty useful in hindsight. We kill a lot of enemies that we have trouble transforming into resources we need. This could be seen as a Progression enhancer of a kind too. Maybe we could find an Artifact like this in the future, though anything of remotely similar potency is undoubtedly going to be very expensive.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
The chargen posts available in Reader mode do not specify how much favor we would earn by giving up a Lesser Remittance. It is unlikely that giving up Gisena would be worth only 1 favor, for example. Rihaku usually makes sure the options aren't traps: why even let us vote for another option if there's a guarantee to get a return of >10x on our investment of Arete into this DA?
I think it's more likely that this is the equivalent of one or maybe two Lesser Remittances.
Sometimes certain options are simply better than alternatives. For example, in AST 0 we've got a grace that was perma x10 quickening and time stop, that was simply blatantly better than alternatives. Rihaku also noted that it was holy shit option.
Additionally, this is not just EFB equivalent, but EFB equivalent that costs five picks, which are otherwise impossible to get, and then a DA slot on top of that. Spending Arete on something like that is vastly more valuable than spending it on classic one pick options, so overwhelming amount of value is only natural.
Magical_Duck
The One Who Quacks
- Location
- A Pond
- Pronouns
- Duck
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
"Quack"
"Quack"
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
What's our option if we want to go with SAVE and Pillars of Creation?
I don't want to be in this position again, and having Decimator mitigation would stop us being in this position again.
Also I'm curious about how much Decimator mitigation we get out of this fight. There is, notably, no option to burn Arete and lock down the curse for years- oh boy am I regretting us not taking that the first time around.
I don't want to be in this position again, and having Decimator mitigation would stop us being in this position again.
Also I'm curious about how much Decimator mitigation we get out of this fight. There is, notably, no option to burn Arete and lock down the curse for years- oh boy am I regretting us not taking that the first time around.
Either Stranglethorn or Sharpening the Blade. Blade costs some Arete, but not picking Stranglethorn means that we can get it after RR for extra value.
As an aside, do consider that Fisher King gives us both double proc rate and double duration of Hunger Sated for fish targets, which would vastly increase utility of using Pillars for Hunger Sated mitigation.
[X] Forebear's Blade: Fisher King [12 + 12 Arete]
Hmm, Fisher King says it only gives +50% AllStats for literal fishing. But... nothing says we can't fight by fishing, right? If we get the Rod of Ages as an Artifact, fishing could become an integral part of our fighting style, so that boost would apply much more often.
And unlocking SitS is pretty neat too. The gameplay is about to transit towards a more rulership-oriented style now that we're finally getting to the Human Sphere, I think, so SitS is going to be fairly useful.
Regretting the Hunter's Moon a bit now, tbh. This seems to be a different form of Mitigation, which means that its effectiveness is reduced by 40%.
And unlocking SitS is pretty neat too. The gameplay is about to transit towards a more rulership-oriented style now that we're finally getting to the Human Sphere, I think, so SitS is going to be fairly useful.
Regretting the Hunter's Moon a bit now, tbh. This seems to be a different form of Mitigation, which means that its effectiveness is reduced by 40%.