The mass of the Fish is not really what would make a hit dangerous. Impact with something 100 times one's mass is almost indistinguishable from a collision at the same speed with something 100 million times one's mass. What it needs is sufficient hardness on the striking surface that it isn't the thing that craters and enough relative speed that someone who makes sharp turns at mach 40 will nonetheless feel it. Most hits will just knock him away.

Really the Fish should be trying to smash him against something solid or catch and crush him.
 
The mass of the Fish is not really what would make a hit dangerous. Impact with something 100 times one's mass is almost indistinguishable from a collision at the same speed with something 100 million times one's mass. What it needs is sufficient hardness on the striking surface that it isn't the thing that craters and enough relative speed that someone who makes sharp turns at mach 40 will nonetheless feel it. Most hits will just knock him away.

Really the Fish should be trying to smash him against something solid or catch and crush him.
While this is true, it's also a continent sized fish that may as well have 'Physics need not apply' tattooed in 7200 point font on the side.
 
Ber's going to be so surprised when he meets you again!
I'm looking forward to the reunion! The All-Defeating Stance might be interesting if Holy Shit pierces whatever Gamer's Mind knockoff he's got going, since it'd communicate Hunger's superior strength. How would his warped worldview parse that, anyway?

BEARIC: "He's still got a red skull next to his health bar? What kind of shitty, scripted invincibility is this? God, I hate level scaling, it's bad design not to have a payoff after all that grinding."

Said this like a dozen times, but I'm genuinely curious what's up with him and hope he gets some resolution before being Cut out of the story.
Would it be possible to use the Armament Fish to give our second form corporeal blood? We had an option to use verslengorge to give our second form blood so it's likely possible to do so with the Armament Fish.
Bloodwraith is on my AST Advancement wish list, right up there beside Honing, Iridescence, and Stranglethorn. Sadly, Apocryphal Clause always gives Hunger coal, for all that he's been successful so far at turning it to metaphorical diamond.

Anyway, it seems like the Armament Fish could drop it, interfacing between the physical and Astral is an Ereadhihr specialty. It's cheap enough that we might be able to get it alongside two years of Satiation, which we should be shooting for. The real risk comes from the inevitable juicy, Armament-exclusive Advancements that throw a spanner in our mitigation plans.
 
two years of Satiation
This is a bad deal: it comes with -25% to our ring's +Progression and obsoletes our Decimator's Lens. It would mean we used Gisena's entire first artificial slot for a single month's worth of value.
 
This is a bad deal: it comes with -25% to our ring's +Progression and obsoletes our Decimator's Lens. It would mean we used Gisena's entire first artificial slot for a single month's worth of value.

We're already close to out scaling our current universe and its only been a month. Experience is going to be rare going forward. With pillars the minus progression won't really be that big of a problem anymore. We could always use pillars to get RR so that problem is easily fixable. I don't want to deal with Decimator again anytime soon so I'd rather just take the 2 years.
 
This is a bad deal: it comes with -25% to our ring's +Progression and obsoletes our Decimator's Lens. It would mean we used Gisena's entire first artificial slot for a single month's worth of value.
Two years isn't that long when weighed against even the time limit of this Geas task, but given the pace of the quest so far it'd allow for breathing room. Maybe even actual timeskips. If Hunger continues to choose Decimation targets with death chances over damage to infrastructure, statistics alone will fuck him up worse than the Tyrant; imagine taking on twelve Fish-tier foes in a single year. The Forebear may have been able to beat up math, but Hunger can't.

The Lens will still be useful when the time's up, or Gisena can sacrifice it to recoup the ontological bandwidth the Azure is investing in it to make it work. It wasn't that lengthy a crafting project, if I recall correctly, the work of a few days at most. If all it winds up doing is showing us the way to Nilfel, well, that excursion was fairly lucrative. Timeskips translate into more days that can be dedicated to crafting. The -25% malus is unfortunate, but Hunger's had a growth cliff rather than a growth curve so far. There's also an 'additional unknown effect' attached, and mystery boxes exist to be opened.
 
Two years isn't that long a time when weighed against even the time limit of this Geas task, but given the pace of the quest so far it'd allow for breathing room. Maybe even actual timeskips. If Hunger continues to choose Decimation targets with death chances over damage to infrastructure, statistics alone will fuck him up worse than the Tyrant; imagine taking on twelve Fish-tier foes in a single year. The Forebear may have been able to beat up math, but Hunger can't.
And yet, you're voting Cast instead of Bait. How do you square your argument about long-term risk aversion with your choice to pursue a more risky fight in the short term?

If you want to change Hunger's revealed preferences about lethal fights, it seems strange to withhold support for an option that has him proactively preparing to minimise that risk.

What's more, the Fish fight is yet another data point confirming Hunger's current preference for lethal fights. Cast can only be seen as reinforcing Hunger's tendency to leap into dangerous fights. Given yet another risky choice, it seems bonkers to give up another 15% of the Ring bonus for farming kills.


The Lens will still be useful when the time's up, or Gisena can sacrifice it to recoup the ontological bandwidth the Azure is investing in it to make it work. It wasn't that long a crafting project, if I recall correctly, the work of a few days at most. If all it winds up doing is showing us the way to Nilfel, well, that excursion was fairly lucrative. The -25% malus is unfortunate, but Hunger's had a growth cliff rather than a growth curve so far. There's also an 'additional unknown effect' attached, and mystery boxes exist to be opened.
I do love mystery boxes. However, Artifice is a tech tree and a series of related mystery boxes is much more exciting than a throwaway line from 90 chapters ago. Wasting an entire tech tree unlock would be more painful to me than losing out on an option from reader mode page 1.
 
Two years isn't that long when weighed against even the time limit of this Geas task, but given the pace of the quest so far it'd allow for breathing room. Maybe even actual timeskips. If Hunger continues to choose Decimation targets with death chances over damage to infrastructure, statistics alone will fuck him up worse than the Tyrant; imagine taking on twelve Fish-tier foes in a single year. The Forebear may have been able to beat up math, but Hunger can't.

Depends on the type of math! His Rank is certainly high enough to warp most forms of local physics.
 
And yet, you're voting Cast instead of Bait. How do you square your argument about long-term risk aversion with your choice to pursue a more risky fight in the short term?

If you want to change Hunger's revealed preferences about lethal fights, it seems strange to withhold support for an option that has him proactively preparing to minimise that risk.

What's more, the Fish fight is yet another data point confirming Hunger's current preference for lethal fights. Cast can only be seen as reinforcing Hunger's tendency to leap into dangerous fights. Given yet another risky choice, it seems bonkers to give up another 15% of the Ring bonus for farming kills.
Bait and Tackle was my first choice for that reason. But on a character level, the implications of recklessness are balanced out by positive growth in the form of concern shown for the bystanders, who number in the billions, and its thematic appeal in the wake of Never Better. OOC desire to wrap this up plays a large part too. It also occupies a middle ground of greed, halfway between Bait (ironically not the metaphorical bait here) and Diplomacy, which might be making it seem more reasonable in comparison. The growth rate lost is only an additional fifteen percent compared to Hunger's current pace, but he notes in a recent update that that speed of advancement is unsustainable anyway. Forget picks, he may start running out of AHS targets if we don't get Pillars. Look at the literal ocean between the nameless pirate and the Armament-Fish. I acknowledge Cast Line's relatively increased danger, but that's a drop in the bucket compared to the gauntlet to come.
I do love mystery boxes. However, Artifice is a tech tree and a series of related mystery boxes is much more exciting than a throwaway line from 90 chapters ago. Wasting an entire tech tree unlock would be more painful to me than losing out on an option from reader mode page 1.
See, I thought Artifice was a tech tree too, which is why I was enthused about picking that as Gisena's first domain in conjunction with the Sovereignty. In practice, it seems to create (so far) pseudo-technological wonders that drain some amount of the Azure's large-but-finite budget, similar to how the Temple was run. It's not clear that the Decimation Lens in particular actually leads to anything, as opposed to being a small drain on the Ring's stamina. Gisena can craft other stuff in the downtime purchased by avoiding the Affliction.
 
See, I thought Artifice was a tech tree too, which is why I was enthused about picking that as Gisena's first domain in conjunction with the Sovereignty. In practice, it seems to create (so far) pseudo-technological wonders that drain some amount of the Azure's large-but-finite budget, similar to how the Temple was run. It's not clear that the Decimation Lens in particular actually leads to anything, as opposed to being a small drain on the Ring's stamina. Gisena can craft other stuff in the downtime purchased by avoiding the Affliction.
As you said, so far. I think that's the key bit. It's easiest to work with what you already have, and what she had was a magic ring with truth powers. It would be lame if the chief dominion was so limited- well, "limited," so it was probably a matter of time and resources than a complete demonstration of Artifice's power.

Definitely agree with everything else you wrote.
 
It's worth noting that Decimation Lens is only a strain on her budget because it's designed to draw truthful information out of the air constantly. Presumably if you make something that doesn't actively utilize an aspect of her power in a continuous way the same limitations won't apply.
 
It's worth noting that Decimation Lens is only a strain on her budget because it's designed to draw truthful information out of the air constantly. Presumably if you make something that doesn't actively utilize an aspect of her power in a continuous way the same limitations won't apply.
Yeah, there's almost certainly a less brutish way to do it, but processing power was hardly the issue she was dealing with.
 
Come on guys, even if scouring the coastline for help is something that might take too long, taking a single hour to summon up a Rank 8 Astral minion useful for the fight could mean a lot of difference for very little trade off!

A utility effect like the granting of temporary intangibility or a combat type capable of drawing away fire and masking our Artful Thorn procs would be wonderful to have. Not only that but there's a >90% chance the summoning goes favorable for us.

If whatever we call up survives, we can teleport it with us back to fight the Lord Protector with since we don't have to worry about party limits with Nightmare Flight right now. And if it doesn't then the cooldown for a dispelled summon resets by the time we can teleport back anyway, which means we can try again outside of civilization and things we want to protect aside from a single person(meaning we don't have to worry about the kids getting ganked) and we'd do so with a much better understanding of how summoning actually works and what we can trade with Astral beings to obtain their service, something that would be helpful to avoid summoning blind while the Lord Protector gets ready.

Summoning also benefits no matter which option is chosen for the All Defeating Stance vote. If it isn't chosen then we have more lateral room to buy even more safety, while if it is chosen than the Charisma effect against things weaker than us takes what was already a near memetic level of social force and outright doubles it (side note now I'm actually happy we have fine grain control over our charisma). Same goes for Manipulation to get a favorable deal.

With how all the multipliers shake out, we'd literally have more CHA against something we're stronger than we have Strength or Con to actually kill them with. Hunger is something with a whole lot of mental Willpower, but against a summon he could subdue he'd have more Manipulation than even that.

All good ingredients to getting a favorable deal at the time cost of 1/24th of the assumed 'run out the clock while looking for local help' strategy.
 
[x]Purchase it
[x]Bait & Tackle

I'm somewhat on the fence with ADS for whatever reason, but minimizing Hunger's tendencies towards recklessness is generally a good idea in the long term.
 
[X] Cast Line

Time to return to my original affiliation, the Moral Gang! Really, what's a bit more success chance compared to billions of lives? We haven't got this far by playing the odds, why stop now?
 
Time to return to my original affiliation, the Moral Gang! Really, what's a bit more success chance compared to billions of lives? We haven't got this far by playing the odds, why stop now?
I like your spirit! And after saying something like this-
"Have we ever won a fight by being careful?" Hunger smiled. "We've simply got to kill it before it kills us. The only way out is through."
It would be too embarrassing to back down. "The only way out is through. Now hold on while I turn around and walk away."
 
Though I understand the desire to minimize the Apocryphal's opportunity for action, I think that rushing the fish is a bad precedent to set. I suspect that the idea, 'minimize prep time so the apocryphal can't act' becomes, in practice, 'rush in without real prep.'

This is, needless to say, a poor long term survival strategy.
 
Fanwork#600 words, posted in full and unspoilered due to relatively short length.

Training With Ruby



Training. It had been so long since Ruby had trained. They had struggled often in Destroyed, life or death struggle in so far as 'life' and 'death' existed in such a place as that, and such struggle brought them to the height of their skill before their transaction.

Training was not struggling. Training was different. It was different for Ruby, at least. For Ruby, training was exploratory and speculative, a process of assessing and obtaining possibilities, rather than options.

It had been a long time since Ruby had the opportunity to simply explore the space of their abilities, rather than hastily search for the solution to some pressing problem therein. Returning to training in some ways made Ruby feel almost like a child again, recalling long-buried memories of their… childhoods, as a young man in the Edifice of Awakening and a young woman in the Ennobling Dream.

Nostalgia, bittered by the imperturbable oddity of being two-in-one. Not an unfamiliar emotion to Ruby. The thing which made the memories truly come alive again was the sheer breadth of possibilities which Ruby stood to explore. The functional points of intersection between Awakening and Dreaming had been few and far between, opportunities Ruby cherished and exploited to their absolute limit. The perfect unity which their transaction had given them exploded that constellation of points into an endless expanse of potential, akin to how the possibilities of Awakening or Dreaming had first seemed, except combinatorially more massive.

The possibilities were so numerous that in order to even productively begin assessing new potential techniques achievable with the knowledge and resources they had on hand at the moment, they needed a new informatic apparatus just for handling the data which they collected in their meditations and exercises. A simple enough thing to spin together, but still, a level of utterly self-reflective indulgence which her… which one of their prior selves' instructors in the Ennobling Dream would have decried as a waste of precious time.

With the most rudiments of searching through this vast new frontier of power handled, Ruby ceased their meditation and started looking for some more food. They were going to need to stay topped up, they could tell already that the training to reach these new heights would be exhausting, physically and mentally.

Choose a duration.

<> Short. One pick. Small chance of encounter.

<> Medium. Two picks. Moderate chance of encounter.

<> Long. Three picks. Large chance of encounter.

Choose up to three developments. Ruby currently has 2 Satisfaction.

<> Formflow. -1 Satisfaction. Constant, dynamic body control operated by complete parallel thread. xBody, xAdapt
<> Silkflow. Requires Formflow and Silkspinning. Augments the formflow thread with spinneret modules, allowing for the deployment of dreamsilk mass as part of formflow. xBody, xxAdapt

<> Spawning. Develop a paradigm for modules that design, build, pilot, and coordinate drone-bodies. Greatly synergizes with other developments. Each drone spawned requires an investment of Satisfaction proportional to its greatness. xBody, xReach

<> Silkspinning. Design a combined awakened/dreaming module which gathers informatic dross and converts into physical matter. Qualities and traits of dreamsilk depend on local ontology. Dreamsilk never provides nourishment to the Cursebearer. xMind, xArtful
<> Replication. -1 Satisfaction. Requires Silkspinning and Destructive Analysis. Augment the spinneret module with an inverted analytic module to imbue spun dreamsilk with the properties of matter. Error-prone if performed at greater than Slow speed. Replicated matter never provides nourishment to the Cursebearer. xMind, xxArtful

<> Destructive Analysis. Design a combined awakened/dreaming module which breaks engulfed physical matter down into informatic matrices, providing information about its native ontology and specific construction. Prone to failure when applied to extremely dense or complex matter. xxMind
<> Deletion. -1 Satisfaction. Requires Destructive Analysis. Refine the Destructive Analysis algorithms with the intent of weaponization, providing increased speed, degrees of freedom, and reliability of destruction at the expense of no retention of the informatic content. xxFierce

-e

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