[X] Purchase It
[X] Cast Line
If not purchasing makes a comeback I might switch, but as is this seems the obvious combo.
[X] Cast Line
If not purchasing makes a comeback I might switch, but as is this seems the obvious combo.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
[X] Purchase It
[X] Cast Line
I was considering to vote for S A V E-ing in the hopes that we can get enough Arete to buy OaF II but that might be a little too crazy and finally having All-Defeating Stance does sync up nicely with Hour of Reckoning since it proved so useful to the Forebear in his fight then. It's a hard choice to not S A V E or pursue the prospect of potential L O R E, but it seems like that would be a hard sell for the thread.
Cast Line, because I voted for the Armament Fish in the hopes of getting F I G H Ts, not diplomacy and not more words spent on people we're going to ditch anyway when we leave Voyaging Realm. Spending Arete on Artifacts and allies is also pretty bleh to me. Diffusing our attention has always been one of the thread's worst habits, in my opinion.
Additionally, the best parts of the quest, when we're not getting more sick L O R E, comes from Rihaku's fight scenes and I'd like to get as many of them as we can!
Stay on target and justCut Through kill the Fish!
[X] Cast Line
I was considering to vote for S A V E-ing in the hopes that we can get enough Arete to buy OaF II but that might be a little too crazy and finally having All-Defeating Stance does sync up nicely with Hour of Reckoning since it proved so useful to the Forebear in his fight then. It's a hard choice to not S A V E or pursue the prospect of potential L O R E, but it seems like that would be a hard sell for the thread.
Cast Line, because I voted for the Armament Fish in the hopes of getting F I G H Ts, not diplomacy and not more words spent on people we're going to ditch anyway when we leave Voyaging Realm. Spending Arete on Artifacts and allies is also pretty bleh to me. Diffusing our attention has always been one of the thread's worst habits, in my opinion.
Additionally, the best parts of the quest, when we're not getting more sick L O R E, comes from Rihaku's fight scenes and I'd like to get as many of them as we can!
Stay on target and just
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Delaying word count increases the chance to buy up another stance before we enter the fight (since ADS will consume our other stances)
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Rihaku
The Internet
I think there's an argument for Not Purchasing given your principal strategy relies on the Praxis rather than direct damage alone. Picks are valuable and you would benefit immensely from being able to pick up another EFB from these Armament Fish picks, whereas ADS is something you're able to get at any time so long as you have the Arete!
While wordcount remains an important consideration, also important is maximizing Hunger's ability to actually prevail! This is by no means a trivial fight, even if it's less risky than the likes of Vanreir or Sten + Evangeline. Bait and Tackle could certainly yield much larger dividends there!
While wordcount remains an important consideration, also important is maximizing Hunger's ability to actually prevail! This is by no means a trivial fight, even if it's less risky than the likes of Vanreir or Sten + Evangeline. Bait and Tackle could certainly yield much larger dividends there!
- Location
- Pindorama
I'm actually very surprised by the surge of Cast Line; just because we think the Forebear is cool doesn't mean we have to emulate him in every way, y'know? Especially considering how much there's to gain by a bit of preparation; maybe we'll finally get use out of that Nightmare Praetor bonus.
I sincerely wonder where the disconnect is, where a large amount of the thread bemoans the risk-taking characterization Hunger has acquired, and yet risk-taking behavior is consistently chosen anyway. There's nothing wrong with waiting here, and much to be gained; after how much support for a more careful approach for Hunger got last vote, it would be a shame for those who fought for that to pass up such an opportunity here.
If Cast Line wins I also think that getting A-DS is strictly inferior; it's not a truly meaningful increase in our win percentages while passing up some powerful stuff like Once and Future II or maybe even Pillars of Creation. Now that we have at least 14 Arete saving up becomes a great opportunity again.
I also think it would be a better fit to not spend and get Once and Future II here by following the Forebear's example if we do go for Cast Line. It would be a much better narrative beat. If we do purchase A-DS, the benefits it gives to preparation are much bigger than the ones it gives to a direct fight, and so it would be a good idea to play into those things by choosing Bait. Plus 5 INT/WIS/LCK and Holy Shit simply aren't relevant increases for actually fighting the Armament Fish; but incredibly valuable for gathering allies for such an endeavor while still benefiting from whatever A-DS provides in a direct confrontation with the Fish since we will still fight him later anyway. Compared to Cast Line, Bait leverages A-DS much more fully, and therefore is the better choice should we really want to purchase it at this moment. It's, dare I say, synergistic.
I sincerely wonder where the disconnect is, where a large amount of the thread bemoans the risk-taking characterization Hunger has acquired, and yet risk-taking behavior is consistently chosen anyway. There's nothing wrong with waiting here, and much to be gained; after how much support for a more careful approach for Hunger got last vote, it would be a shame for those who fought for that to pass up such an opportunity here.
If Cast Line wins I also think that getting A-DS is strictly inferior; it's not a truly meaningful increase in our win percentages while passing up some powerful stuff like Once and Future II or maybe even Pillars of Creation. Now that we have at least 14 Arete saving up becomes a great opportunity again.
I also think it would be a better fit to not spend and get Once and Future II here by following the Forebear's example if we do go for Cast Line. It would be a much better narrative beat. If we do purchase A-DS, the benefits it gives to preparation are much bigger than the ones it gives to a direct fight, and so it would be a good idea to play into those things by choosing Bait. Plus 5 INT/WIS/LCK and Holy Shit simply aren't relevant increases for actually fighting the Armament Fish; but incredibly valuable for gathering allies for such an endeavor while still benefiting from whatever A-DS provides in a direct confrontation with the Fish since we will still fight him later anyway. Compared to Cast Line, Bait leverages A-DS much more fully, and therefore is the better choice should we really want to purchase it at this moment. It's, dare I say, synergistic.
Last edited:
I would say that I would rather buy ADS for the option that 'Benefits substantially from All-Defeating Stance', rather than one that it could be sorta useful for.
- Location
- Pindorama
I don't see how we'd get less benefit from A-DS if go Bait and Tackle though. All the parts of it that benefit us when fighting the Fish will still be there 24 hours later as they are there now; however, A-DS has a whole mental and social component which is completely meaningless with Cast Line. I don't understand how spending with Bait is actually any worse. I simply can't see the logic.
Last edited:
The point is that the Arete spent on ADS could be directly spent on Artifacts or better allies. ADS can help us out there, true, but it's less efficient if our goal is defeating the fish through preparation.
I want ADS though, both for the Mitigation, general competence boost and the later assistance against the Lord Protector (and other threats where Holy Shit applies), so I'm voting for Cast Line.
Edit: Preparation isn't cost-free. Billions of dead people aside, it gives Apocrypha a greater chance to meddle. If we're doing something significant with that time, that's one thing, but I don't want to just go through the motions and clap myself on the back for preparing well.
I want ADS though, both for the Mitigation, general competence boost and the later assistance against the Lord Protector (and other threats where Holy Shit applies), so I'm voting for Cast Line.
Edit: Preparation isn't cost-free. Billions of dead people aside, it gives Apocrypha a greater chance to meddle. If we're doing something significant with that time, that's one thing, but I don't want to just go through the motions and clap myself on the back for preparing well.
Last edited:
- Location
- US
Don't worry, it's been replenished for one more month by our glorious benefactor.
(Sidenote: Thank you very much Aab, but make sure you take care of yourself.)
Last edited:
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Say no more:
Don't get me wrong: I hear and respect your argument that ADS is useful in the long term and that Cast a Line is a better use of ADS than Bait.
However, in formalAI's absence, I think it is important not to allow the Cut Through faction to downplay the very real death chance associated with picking a fight with a continent. Hunger can make two mistakes during this fight: one for Silver of Evening and one for Second Form. After that,
Right now, the only applicant for "bit part with a noble sacrifice" is Gisena. Filling out the dramatis personae would help to blunt the thrust of narrative Doom.
Last edited:
And if we were using our Arete on that option, I wouldn't mind Bait. The majority of the tactics that occurred to me were in the vein of Bait. But ADS has overwhelming popularity right now, so I'm doubtful of how much Bait is going to help us in comparison to the problems giving Apocrypha more time to intervene will bring.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I think that pairing the boost to stats and Holy Shit is very useful with bait. If we do find a useful recruit, we still need to persuade them to come with us and be willing to pay the ultimate price in Defense of Gisena's life.
Leveraging the full CHA bonus of Tower + Holy Shit is not the only way to inspire people to fight a hopeless battle. Hunger himself spent the lives of his friends against the Tyrant in his Isekai world. However, we don't have time to inspire loyalty through folk legends and propaganda. We need to put together a team to kill the Fish ASAP. Thus: ADS + Bait.
Last edited:
Yes, as Wolfy likes to say, ADS does stuff. It's an EFB, it's hardly going to be useless. Is it the best use of our Arete if we want to make better preparations for the fight? We could pick out strong allies for an Arete cost, we could help Gisena create an Artifact that is well-suited to countering the Fish like the Rod of Ages, we could spend the Arete on a better Summon... ADS is going to help with all of that, but not nearly to the same extent. If so, I would rather just employ it together with the option that is explicitly described as substantially benefiting from it and avoid Apocryphal intervention as much as I can. If your risk assessment tells you otherwise, that's fine.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
I mean, you're welcome to dismiss my post if it's inconvenient, but the points stand:
1. The blurb for Cast mentions a risk to Hunger's life, while Bait improves our chances "substantially".
2. ADS has bonuses that are explicitly useful for the goals of Bait, beyond simply being useful as a generic EFB. Trying to inspire mercenaries to risk their life without ADS will be considerably more difficult.
Like, Cast includes a warning that ADS' boost is useful but not game changing:
Conditional on knowing that we're getting ADS, Bait still has the best chance of survival & profit imo.
[x] Purchase It
[ ] Don't Purchase It
Fish picks are going to Stranglethorn!
[ ] Cast Line
Ripples spread across the pond. Since the fish started moving everywhere with a shoreline on this ocean has been hit with multiple giga-tsunami and that's been going on for weeks. Another day at the same activity level will only hit the already dead and those who've proven they can take it. Conversely, when the continent tries to swat someone moving at mach 100, the shockwaves will dwarf what has gone before in both range and destruction. Either way the extra harm from taking time to prep is insignificant.
[x] Bait and Tackle
Finishing the actual combat as fast and clean as possible is what will minimize deaths.
A-DS maximises the chance of the summon being useful because it gives more stats to deal with it, applies Ruin to attempts to fuck with us and gives a little more apocryphal mitigation. And +++++ LUCK for what we get in the first place.
We have a better chance of finding Gisena somewhere to craft than finding a useful ally on the ground. Finding some one pick scavengers shouldn't be too hard with our Rank and mobility - anything still moving in the devastation zone is tough at least. Still, spending the time buffing and assisting her to make the ultimate one-shot fish gaffe might be the best use of our time.
[ ] Attempt Diplomacy
Kill requirement confirmed.
[+Letrizia, +Gisena if successful, --Aobaru, -Aeira if Decimation occurs for substantial length of time]
Chosen one status forces Aobaru to give a shit about the masses. Ha ha!
[ ] Don't Purchase It
Fish picks are going to Stranglethorn!
[ ] Cast Line
Ripples spread across the pond. Since the fish started moving everywhere with a shoreline on this ocean has been hit with multiple giga-tsunami and that's been going on for weeks. Another day at the same activity level will only hit the already dead and those who've proven they can take it. Conversely, when the continent tries to swat someone moving at mach 100, the shockwaves will dwarf what has gone before in both range and destruction. Either way the extra harm from taking time to prep is insignificant.
[x] Bait and Tackle
Finishing the actual combat as fast and clean as possible is what will minimize deaths.
A-DS maximises the chance of the summon being useful because it gives more stats to deal with it, applies Ruin to attempts to fuck with us and gives a little more apocryphal mitigation. And +++++ LUCK for what we get in the first place.
We have a better chance of finding Gisena somewhere to craft than finding a useful ally on the ground. Finding some one pick scavengers shouldn't be too hard with our Rank and mobility - anything still moving in the devastation zone is tough at least. Still, spending the time buffing and assisting her to make the ultimate one-shot fish gaffe might be the best use of our time.
[ ] Attempt Diplomacy
Kill requirement confirmed.
[+Letrizia, +Gisena if successful, --Aobaru, -Aeira if Decimation occurs for substantial length of time]
Chosen one status forces Aobaru to give a shit about the masses. Ha ha!
[X] Purchase It
[X] Bait and Tackle
I was so ready to go all in with cast line, but devils advocacy was too strong. I now want to take the slightly safer option at this time, and I think I'd rather drop our Arete on ADS. We just mega buffed it, I just want to follow through at this point. I hear the argument that it's smarter to wait, but I don't want to have the ADS fight any longer when it's right here. Bait and Tackle is also the safer option even without spending an Arete on our part, and we'll still be getting ADS to supplement that.
I also agree with Noliar to start dropping picks into a defining advancement, but don't forget I believe we unlocked a new defining advancement back at the end of the sovereignty arc, so we may have more options than just Stranglethorn.
[X] Bait and Tackle
I was so ready to go all in with cast line, but devils advocacy was too strong. I now want to take the slightly safer option at this time, and I think I'd rather drop our Arete on ADS. We just mega buffed it, I just want to follow through at this point. I hear the argument that it's smarter to wait, but I don't want to have the ADS fight any longer when it's right here. Bait and Tackle is also the safer option even without spending an Arete on our part, and we'll still be getting ADS to supplement that.
I also agree with Noliar to start dropping picks into a defining advancement, but don't forget I believe we unlocked a new defining advancement back at the end of the sovereignty arc, so we may have more options than just Stranglethorn.