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A Simple Transaction I

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Has Hunger reached the point where he's stronger than Forsaken Mask!Hunger, assuming equal amounts of updates and Arete generation? Probably not...
 
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Aug 27, 2020 at 8:51 AM, finished with 147 posts and 56 votes.
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Hmm. Looking back, I don't think Forebear's "philosophy" really fits Hunger at all. How many time have we chosen to Cut Through when given the choice? Zero times I believe.

We have almost always voted to try diplomacy when given the choice before we started murdering people. Changing how Hunger does things almost solely on the basis of "Forebear is cool" is something I can't support given how allergic the thread is to Cut Through.
 
The Apocryphal Curse's job is to make our life interesting. It is to attack us where we are weak. All rules are polite suggestions to the Apocryphal curse that it has the freedom to disregard(Including Mitigation, at least at low levels). The Forbear did not have an actively malicious curse probing every weak point in his build.
 
Conjured Blade said:
The Forbear did not have an actively malicious curse probing every weak point in his build.
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...like stats at the moment. A bit salty at the vote right now, ngl but meh. People dislike ADS for some reason.

EDIT: That damn vote from "A wind full of knives" is still haunting the thread. We got Flare and and we did not take any Ruling Ring advancements. RW is delayed for unknown amount of time. ADS is getting shafted most of the times despite being just 14 Arete. Hold my newspaper, I am going outside to find a gypsy a Roma woman who dabbles in magic to dispell the curse.
 
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Sharkey_smt said:
...like stats at the moment. A bit salty at the vote right now, ngl but meh. People dislike ADS for some reason.

EDIT: That damn vote from "A wind full of knives" is still haunting the thread. We got Flare and and we did not take any Ruling Ring advancements. RW is delayed for unknown amount of time. ADS is getting shafted most of the times despite being just 14 Arete. Hold my newspaper, I am going outside to find a gypsy a Roma woman who dabbles in magic to dispell the curse.
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We could also just say forget Gisena and get Total Eclipse and learn to Nullify things ourselves too (Current Cost: 24 Arete, potentially 23 depending on what wins here, value exceeds 25 Arete due to unknown Opalescent Tower upgrade). There's also the fact one of the Domains of Tears of Winter is Purity, which seems like it could include Curse Mitigation.
 
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@Sharkey_smt I'm willing to meet you halfway. I've got Braininajar namevoting me right now so I can take two votes from Pristine and Give them to Overwhelm if you're willing to back Just a Moment. Overwhelm's condition resistance is a tempting benefit which gives us a downpayment on recovering the stats we've lost from Punctured Soul.
 
Hm... it looks like you guys are on-track to spend 7 Arete once more! Are you sure this is the path you desire? You could save and be only 3 Arete from the All-Defeating Stance!
 
Rihaku said:
Hm... it looks like you guys are on-track to spend 7 Arete once more! Are you sure this is the path you desire? You could save and be only 3 Arete from the All-Defeating Stance!
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I'm not sure how you're going to make the decision about whether to buy the upgraded version. Pinnacle has 27 votes out of 60, while Pristine (the upgrade) has 20 votes out of 60. Neither one has a majority, although Pinnacle is close.

On the one hand, more than half of the Pinnacle voters seem to be voting to spend. However, what about everybody who votes [Overwhelm] and [SAVE]? Are their SAVE preferences disregarded because their TITLE preference didn't win?

Part of my confusion seems to come from the way the subvotes played out. I know my first instinct was that []Pristine would also need to vote for []Pinnacle, but now i'm not sure why that is. Maybe we should've treated Overwhelm, Pinnacle, Whiteout, and Pristine as four build options instead of two different options with subvotes?

Regardless, it turns the vote tabulation into a real headache.
 
ReaderOfFate said:
Whiteout increases ADS's offensive power (Power of Ruin) by elevenfold. If we really want ADS next, that would be a wise pick tbh.
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Whiteout only increases the Power of Ruin by 6-fold. ADS is already a 5-fold increase, so the benefit of Whiteout is just the additional power of ruin that we get.

Additionally, even though Whiteout improves ADS, it also potentially delays it. I'm not going to say it's a bad combo, but will we really be able to tell the difference in-narrative? Like, Overwhelm still improves the Power of Ruin by ?x. So King of Winter moves us from 5x to a guaranteed ?x, up to a maximum 11x.

There's a 7-Arete difference between ?x and 11x, but is that worth delaying ADS by an entire update or more? Until we get ADS, all these multipliers are actually 0x. The Ruin benefits of Whiteout don't kick in until we finally pay for the All Defeating Stance!
 
Zampano said:
Like, Overwhelm still improves the Power of Ruin by ?x. So King of Winter moves us from 5x to a guaranteed ?x, up to a maximum 11x.
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Rihaku said:
Overwhelm will also improve his effective Power of Ruin multiplier from All-Defeating Stance to a fearsome 6.25x!
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Overwhelm with ADS improves Power of Ruin from 5x to 6.25x, while Whiteout with ADS improves it to 11.25x. That's a pretty big difference, and very likely something we'd notice in narrative.

Besides, compounding multipliers improves the later Refinement of Battle, which is a true multiplier and will affect Power of Ruin through multiplying Strength.
 
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ReaderOfFate said:
Overwhelm with ADS improves Power of Ruin from 5x to 6.25x, while Whiteout with ADS improves it to 11.25x. That's a pretty big difference, and very likely something we'd notice in narrative.
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Thanks for the correction. I should've gone back to double check whether it was specified.

So Whiteout is a 125% increase on the ADS Ruin boost, while Overwhelm is a 25% increase on the ADS Ruin boost. 7 Arete more than doubles the effect of ADS on both offense and defense.
 
It's just 2.25x increase; not insignificant, as it stacks with RoB, Stranglethorn etc, but no really what we want to spend 7AP on either.

Saving for ADS/Pillars is clearly superior choice; otherwise, if we are spending Pristine is better than Whiteout; 25% more Praxis sounds vastly more valuable with our build than double Ruin, and even 0.1 Rank is pretty massive at our level.
 
Less Praxis exertion will probably be very useful against the Armament Fish since Artful Thorn is pretty much our only way to harm it.
 
Wolfy said:
It's just 2.25x increase; not insignificant, as it stacks with RoB, Stranglethorn etc, but no really what we want to spend 7AP on either.

Saving for ADS/Pillars is clearly superior choice; otherwise, if we are spending Pristine is better than Whiteout; 25% more Praxis sounds vastly more valuable with our build than double Ruin, and even 0.1 Rank is pretty massive at our level.
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I'd agree that more Praxis is more valuable than more Ruin, but boosted ADS has a peripheral benefit of acting as a powerful defense even while we are exhausted.

In my mind, the main benefit of Overwhelm/Whiteout is that it patches our build's weakness to status effects. It helps us to avoid a death spiral of conditions and (soul) injuries that would slow down our advancement.

On the other hand, Pinnacle/Pristine has a similar defensive benefit by making Hunger smart enough to see a way to extract himself from any given trap, including non-combat encounters.

King of Winter is very good with or without spending 7 Arete.
 
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