A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
And now we have to pay 3p12a for the same. It's true what they say, there is always a bigger fish above the sky.
Magical_Duck
The One Who Quacks
- Location
- A Pond
- Pronouns
- Duck
"Qu- Qauck, Quack Qauc- Qauck, Quack Quack"
Anyone got any boring cool ideas for government reform?
Trying to draw up some list of complaints to address:
We know that the current establishment takes something of a hard-line stance against criticism based on Mizuku's perspective chapter.
There are hints at economic oppression in Aeira's story, but it's hard to tell if they're the contemporary politics of noble houses or some state-supported schemes.
The Sovereignty, like most nations in history, values its independence more than some significant portion of its population. This is again a sin from a teenager's point of view, and may not even be true! Kowtowing to the Empire =/= the Empire sheltering you in the middle of the voyaging realm. Perhaps it's possible, perhaps not. Research needed!
So, it's looking like we need the basics.
Free Media/Speech
Governance by will of the people, probably boring old democracy, unless anyone has some radical new ideas?
Some manner of tax reform/addressing the situation which led to Aiera's situation. It may be that nothing is wrong with the code, and this was blatant corruption. Again, research needed.
Paying the High Elementalists (and also abolish that lame-o name!) what they're worth.
That stuff is touched on by the constitutions or core ideals of most modern nations IRL, so we're not short for inspiration.
In fact, they'd probably resemble those same governments even more than they already do, were it not for the enormous internal and external pressures they've faced since they arrived in the Voyaging Realm. Teenagers with attitude within, Undead Juggernaut without.
Any changes we make need to be with the mindset of building something to stand without Hunger. We cannot and will not be staying here long-term, so they need to be able to manage their slowly growing population of powerful surgecrafters, and develop some ability to fend off the dangers of the Voyaging Realm. Their industrialized nature will make them somewhat more of a target than most places, but we don't know how much.
There's quite a lot to balance! They need to cultivate their mages, helping them grow stronger while providing ethical reasons to support the state, such as competitive pay. While looking at this option Hunger should see if Blood sense is good enough to tell if this power of theirs breeds true. Don't even have to wait around, I give it roughly a 100% chance that some of these teenagers have knocked each other up during their society's greatest after-party. If they can make adorable little WMDs, then that eases some long-term pressure.
Civil reform is probably the most straight-forward of these concerns for Hunger and crew. Between Hunger and Gisena we have access to an absurd amount of charisma, and can bulldoze through the existing system and more or less force everything into shape (relatively) quickly. Locate corruption, tell them to quit it, apply the Oddysial solution if they get uppity. As already stated by Rihaku, Ennoblement of supporting elements is extremely powerful. Pitch government reform, it'll be very easy to campaign for given the monumental popular support for The Reckoner. Don't forget to implement a fine for using that name!
We need to have a serious chat with Letrizia about the logistics of Empire support. Are the munitions that the Human Sphere could bring in worth the reprisal of the Voyaging Realm? The exact details of this place's dislike of industrialization and exploitation are opaque. Perhaps Gisena could discern something, between her own genius and her fine magical perception?
Survival is gonna be a bitch. There are quite a few existential threats around here, and beyond Ennoblement we don't have many ways to upscale the defenses of the Sovereignty. They're barely able to keep their Armors running, and their lack of Rank is crippling against the bulk of the Realm's threats. Hunger can buy them time to build up, and already has, but they've got to change the game somewhat. We can work with their existing military structures and take advantage of their think-tanks for feasibility studies. Perhaps Accretion could be taught, perhaps I'm underestimating the benefits of Ennobled Surgecrafters, perhaps there's a silver bullet to be had with Artifice from Gisena, perhaps the Empire really could just come down and save them, as Mizuku believe(d?).
The point I'm making is; smarter people than us questers have been trying to design a better government for thousands of years. We have the (((IN CHARACTER))) genius of our protagonist and his friends to iron out the kinks and do some optimization for us, but we need to come up with some neat edges to give this experiment a chance. We actually kinda like these people, we've adopted two of them! Please give them more consideration than those Temple losers.
Trying to draw up some list of complaints to address:
We know that the current establishment takes something of a hard-line stance against criticism based on Mizuku's perspective chapter.
There are hints at economic oppression in Aeira's story, but it's hard to tell if they're the contemporary politics of noble houses or some state-supported schemes.
The Sovereignty, like most nations in history, values its independence more than some significant portion of its population. This is again a sin from a teenager's point of view, and may not even be true! Kowtowing to the Empire =/= the Empire sheltering you in the middle of the voyaging realm. Perhaps it's possible, perhaps not. Research needed!
So, it's looking like we need the basics.
Free Media/Speech
Governance by will of the people, probably boring old democracy, unless anyone has some radical new ideas?
Some manner of tax reform/addressing the situation which led to Aiera's situation. It may be that nothing is wrong with the code, and this was blatant corruption. Again, research needed.
Paying the High Elementalists (and also abolish that lame-o name!) what they're worth.
That stuff is touched on by the constitutions or core ideals of most modern nations IRL, so we're not short for inspiration.
In fact, they'd probably resemble those same governments even more than they already do, were it not for the enormous internal and external pressures they've faced since they arrived in the Voyaging Realm. Teenagers with attitude within, Undead Juggernaut without.
Any changes we make need to be with the mindset of building something to stand without Hunger. We cannot and will not be staying here long-term, so they need to be able to manage their slowly growing population of powerful surgecrafters, and develop some ability to fend off the dangers of the Voyaging Realm. Their industrialized nature will make them somewhat more of a target than most places, but we don't know how much.
There's quite a lot to balance! They need to cultivate their mages, helping them grow stronger while providing ethical reasons to support the state, such as competitive pay. While looking at this option Hunger should see if Blood sense is good enough to tell if this power of theirs breeds true. Don't even have to wait around, I give it roughly a 100% chance that some of these teenagers have knocked each other up during their society's greatest after-party. If they can make adorable little WMDs, then that eases some long-term pressure.
Civil reform is probably the most straight-forward of these concerns for Hunger and crew. Between Hunger and Gisena we have access to an absurd amount of charisma, and can bulldoze through the existing system and more or less force everything into shape (relatively) quickly. Locate corruption, tell them to quit it, apply the Oddysial solution if they get uppity. As already stated by Rihaku, Ennoblement of supporting elements is extremely powerful. Pitch government reform, it'll be very easy to campaign for given the monumental popular support for The Reckoner. Don't forget to implement a fine for using that name!
We need to have a serious chat with Letrizia about the logistics of Empire support. Are the munitions that the Human Sphere could bring in worth the reprisal of the Voyaging Realm? The exact details of this place's dislike of industrialization and exploitation are opaque. Perhaps Gisena could discern something, between her own genius and her fine magical perception?
Survival is gonna be a bitch. There are quite a few existential threats around here, and beyond Ennoblement we don't have many ways to upscale the defenses of the Sovereignty. They're barely able to keep their Armors running, and their lack of Rank is crippling against the bulk of the Realm's threats. Hunger can buy them time to build up, and already has, but they've got to change the game somewhat. We can work with their existing military structures and take advantage of their think-tanks for feasibility studies. Perhaps Accretion could be taught, perhaps I'm underestimating the benefits of Ennobled Surgecrafters, perhaps there's a silver bullet to be had with Artifice from Gisena, perhaps the Empire really could just come down and save them, as Mizuku believe(d?).
The point I'm making is; smarter people than us questers have been trying to design a better government for thousands of years. We have the (((IN CHARACTER))) genius of our protagonist and his friends to iron out the kinks and do some optimization for us, but we need to come up with some neat edges to give this experiment a chance. We actually kinda like these people, we've adopted two of them! Please give them more consideration than those Temple losers.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Inserted tally
HoratioVonBecker
Imperfectly Aligned
That is what I was saying, although I guess 'it' wasn't super clear in context.
I hadn't noticed the DA slot. SJUC would be enough for the Defining Trinity, but I do want Stranglethorn... alas, that we took Uttermost so long ago!
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
According to the Tally and then Vocalist- like Caesar, the plan was stabbed 23 times.
I remember Rihaku was talking a lot about us getting that one stance to defeat Ber. Then all of the sudden he was talking about getting Once and Future to defeat Ber. Not sure, I don't really pay attention to that stuff. He posts a lot here but I don't think he really gets where this quest is going.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
We got an offer of .5 rank that isn't going to be repeated any time soon and at the same time at least a weeks worth of updates to try to make up for it.
@Rihaku: Willing to say how safe Crown + ADS is for Ber? That combo is a mere 3 arete more than OaF.
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ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
Where the quest is going is people refusing en masse to even consider spending 7 Arete on random stuff that pops up that I like, but as soon as something I don't like that costs 12 Arete randomly shows up suddenly it's the most popular thing.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
This is a quick argument post to lay out the reasons why I'm going to vote against Crown. It'll be an uphill climb but I hope you'll at least consider doing the same.
First, Rihaku has already done a lot of heavy lifting enumerating the risks associated with Crown. By far the most damning statement was that Ber was only a guaranteed fight if we took Threefold with ADS. Instead, we got Core Panoply, which requires Once and Future to be a sure thing.
Second, Crown costs more Arete than we currently have. Therefore, buying Crown totally resets our progress so that we have to save for an entire EFB from scratch. That might be OK... we have plenty of time (IRL) to generate Arete, given the commanding lead enjoyed by [] Be The Change.
Third, the available magic systems and magic items that were a major argument in favor of pursuing the tower are going to cost Arete. We will need a discretionary budget if we want to get a powerful Magic Item that fits into our new extended Panoply. We will need a discretionary budget if we want to pick up a magic system that is compatible with Edeldross and Blood casting.
Therefore, the accounting for this choice is fairly straightforward: We must grab Once and Future. So grabbing Crown means that we won't be able to take advantage of the rare magic that isavailable from half the point of this adventure.
Our list of expenditures is already pretty long:
...And you want to spend 12 more Arete, right now? Really?
A Vote for Crown is a vote against every magic system and peripheral benefit of going to the Tower except for Rank. It's also a vote to postpone a more dramatic Rank gain that has been described as necessary to guarantee the W against Ber.
First, Rihaku has already done a lot of heavy lifting enumerating the risks associated with Crown. By far the most damning statement was that Ber was only a guaranteed fight if we took Threefold with ADS. Instead, we got Core Panoply, which requires Once and Future to be a sure thing.
Second, Crown costs more Arete than we currently have. Therefore, buying Crown totally resets our progress so that we have to save for an entire EFB from scratch. That might be OK... we have plenty of time (IRL) to generate Arete, given the commanding lead enjoyed by [] Be The Change.
Third, the available magic systems and magic items that were a major argument in favor of pursuing the tower are going to cost Arete. We will need a discretionary budget if we want to get a powerful Magic Item that fits into our new extended Panoply. We will need a discretionary budget if we want to pick up a magic system that is compatible with Edeldross and Blood casting.
Therefore, the accounting for this choice is fairly straightforward: We must grab Once and Future. So grabbing Crown means that we won't be able to take advantage of the rare magic that is
Our list of expenditures is already pretty long:
- Once and Future
- so that we can survive Ber
- 24 Arete
- so that we can survive Ber
- ADS
- so that we can survive Ber
- 14 Arete
- so that we can survive Ber
- Literally any Magic Item or Magic System
- so that going to the Tower was worth the risk
- 7-25 Arete
- so that going to the Tower was worth the risk
- The tower has some kind of connection to the Evening Sky,
- to maybe grab a LORE dump
- or a more concrete enhancement opportunity for our Panoply Item?
- 7-25 Arete
...And you want to spend 12 more Arete, right now? Really?
A Vote for Crown is a vote against every magic system and peripheral benefit of going to the Tower except for Rank. It's also a vote to postpone a more dramatic Rank gain that has been described as necessary to guarantee the W against Ber.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Bluntly we get offered magic systems that will be a pain in the ass to learn due to the ring all the time.
We get offered a feat worth the equivalent of a mid-level 4-pick fight only very rarely.
Is that first part supposed to be a bad thing? We already don't have enough free time to study, are crippled while studying, and you want to add more studying!?
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Tyrant_Rayne
Probably Not Evil… Maybe
- Location
- Canada
A reply was already given a couple pages ago.
Crown and OaF would be good but crown and ADS will not help us. ADS was only effective for Ber if threefold was chosen which it wasn't.
Et tu, Elixirus?
Et tu, Crownus?
Et tu, Adiesus?
Et tu, Randomshinyus?
A vote for crown means dunking on MAEG gang? Sign me up baby
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Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
Rihaku: You can always get questers back on-track for the big boss fight: You might spend several updates on a nation-building minigame that only takes a very small time in-universe. We all know that nation building is fast and easy to win.
That probably won't be enough, especially if the
If your questers are spending too much Arete, bait them into a major spending spree by mentioning Hunger from before meeting the Accursed. This is a character who we know very well and have learned a lot about. Then, once the questers are starting to have a little bit of anxiety about their Arete bank account, put them on a diet of exclusively Magic Systems and Magic Items. They are guaranteed to save up all their Arete if the only purchase options are 7-Arete Magic blurbs.
Thus, you can lead them to the water that is Once and Future, pry open their mouths, and pour updates down their throats like baby birds without ever worrying that their relentless attempts to kill themselves will inconvenience you or your Patreon account.
- Location
- Earth
[X] Intervention Mk. I
[X] The Walls of Myth
[X] Towards Stranglethorn
[X] The Walls of Myth
[X] Towards Stranglethorn
As noted earlier, these options strongly mirror the Feats we can unlock through Feat: Crown, which we chose the non-feat version of in Aloft to Murder
Now, if we picked some of the other options, would they have been the unlock condition for the other Feats instead of Crown?
Probably, though maybe it would have unlocked something different entirely since the other options offered something other than rank. (Though i do find it unlikely)
Regardless of if that is the case, the other Feats probably also require different unlock conditions, right?
Like, we would have to battle something to unlock Feat: Saber (or restore more of Hungers former glory, whether that is through his old artifacts or just increasing his legend.) Maybe even better his swordsmanship or have him act like the Forebear (as in possessing more Forebear like qualities, not becoming his clone :3)
Orb might really require fishing (Perhaps we could have unlocked it if we went to that fishing contest), otherwise just using Age and Treachery will eventually gain us this feat. (though it might require baiting on a scale yet unseen)
The other feats most probably offer rank, though perhaps paired with their own flavor of memetic appeal/bait.