So we want to get at least 600? Got it.
Guys, I think we need to go all-in on exam prep. Only 2 more weeks.
Vorstallen Magic Preparatory - The Third-Best School for Young Mages in the Nation! Enrol Today!
- Thread starter occipitallobe
- Start date
- Original Fantasy
Guys, I think we need to go all-in on exam prep. Only 2 more weeks.
- Location
- Straya
As an aside, that's your average student sans studying.
A student who studies really hard will get on average +20 per Action, and say they take 8 actions they'll bring themselves up to between ~450 and 700. Admittedly this is full-time studying for two weeks on one subject so you won't see a lot of this, but it's completely plausible for an average student who studies like a madman to outdo Ulos if he doesn't study.
A student who studies really hard will get on average +20 per Action, and say they take 8 actions they'll bring themselves up to between ~450 and 700. Admittedly this is full-time studying for two weeks on one subject so you won't see a lot of this, but it's completely plausible for an average student who studies like a madman to outdo Ulos if he doesn't study.
- Location
- Brazil
I feel it's worth sacrificing a whole lot to get top stop on Magic Theory. That's more or less our single saving grace.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
I feel that it would be better to have variability even lower. Something similar to the Magical Theory test, where we rolled
Something like this
- Location
- It's a whole new world we live in
I'm not so sure it matters that much with us taking Edward's offer. We'll probably get most of our theory training from him, and kinda be pissing off the teacher a little regardless.
I wouldn't be opposed to doing some study actions, but I think that the innate skill bonus should be enough for us to carry it well enough. In that subject at least. Do we want to shore up some of our weaker subjects?
Also, I'm really concerned about sabotage from our rivals, and think at the very least, we need to get the map done, and spend some actions on counter intel before the tests
- Location
- scrabbling
the whole thing is grossly variable but the entire quest has always been. we have even less frame of reference to judge how good ulos needs to be than someone doing this IRL, so we can't possibly make an effective decision. students competing on actual tests at least have a sense of what's on the test, but we additionally have the possibility of some random student we've never heard of, let alone Henrietta or Thomas, jacking their numbers up indefinitely high. the one subject that should be safe isn't, let alone the ones where ulos is supposedly completely average.
besides if it's possible for ulos to score so low despite such advanced skill then the whole thing is a crapshoot anyway.
can you imagine a student taking second semester calculus with a tutor (who isn't totally dismayed) being outdone by a mainstream first semester student in finding the roots of a polynomial, or in applying the concept of a derivative as a rate? these are basic tasks from previous semesters of maths study, made even easier by the second semester's increased toolset, context, and exposure, and yet I am to believe that the second semester student will do that task less well than the first semester student? the first semester student could do well, certainly, but these examples are to a degree so simple that they are lower bounded. if the second semester student could do so poorly then they wouldn't be a second semester student in the first place, they would have failed. they've already been evaluated and done well.
besides if it's possible for ulos to score so low despite such advanced skill then the whole thing is a crapshoot anyway.
can you imagine a student taking second semester calculus with a tutor (who isn't totally dismayed) being outdone by a mainstream first semester student in finding the roots of a polynomial, or in applying the concept of a derivative as a rate? these are basic tasks from previous semesters of maths study, made even easier by the second semester's increased toolset, context, and exposure, and yet I am to believe that the second semester student will do that task less well than the first semester student? the first semester student could do well, certainly, but these examples are to a degree so simple that they are lower bounded. if the second semester student could do so poorly then they wouldn't be a second semester student in the first place, they would have failed. they've already been evaluated and done well.
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- Location
- Straya
On exams, I think there a few good points being made - let me mull over this and come back to it in a bit. I'm not especially wedded to any particular mechanic here (I might dispense with the rolls entirely and just have skills + study bonuses) - I'm just trying to build a system where the variance isn't too high but there's still good reason to study.
On my first pass variance seemed necessary (you do better or worse some days due to chance), but I can see how it's unsatisfying from a gameplay point of view - you spend all this time and random rolls building towards a certain result all term, why have another random roll on top of all that to determine the final outcome) but I'm reconsidering.
On my first pass variance seemed necessary (you do better or worse some days due to chance), but I can see how it's unsatisfying from a gameplay point of view - you spend all this time and random rolls building towards a certain result all term, why have another random roll on top of all that to determine the final outcome) but I'm reconsidering.
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Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
Consider that someone with no knowledge of Magical theory would roll an average of 505.
- Location
- USA
I'm fine with the Variance, especially considering there's an action to help reduce it. I actually think I would rather work on the keys. Miranova seems to fit our new risky nature more than Inukar, and she seems like our best bet to getting our magic back. Not just because of the subject she teaches but also because she's a certified badass. If killing the Necromancer is ever on the table, I would guess the path lies through her.
I wouldn't mind throwing actions at exam prep if we make progress on keys though, might as well be good at two things.
I wouldn't mind throwing actions at exam prep if we make progress on keys though, might as well be good at two things.
- Location
- Straya
Miranova offers a final exam she doesn't care about and barely marks due to the Preparatory requiring her to. She also has a weird psuedo-exam thing to follow that has no bearing on your actual pass/fail but Miranova will reward you personally for doing.
Yeah, I tinkered with that post and left some of the old numbers intact, I think.
Ulos with 30 knowledge would get a 90% CI of 654-955. For someone with no knowledge, we're looking at 354-655. But even a 0.25% chance for someone with zero knowledge to outdo Ulos seems implausible in a regular exam situation.
I think I'll delete the old threadmark and make it a simple point generated by your Skill plus Study Actions, and figure out some figures for average, bottom 10% and top 10% students. I like the broader implementation of chance, (especially in inherently risky endeavours like drinking tea) in my quest but I'm not sure it fits well here.
Exam Mechanics, Take 2
- Location
- Straya
Exams:
Each Exam offers a grade dependent on the class. Some are Pass/Fail (history, souls and spirits), some are curved (theory).
Your grade is 10 time the relevant skill plus Study Action Bonuses.
Each 20 DC of Exam Prep you take offers an additional 50% of your relevant Skill to your Exam Results. For Ulos, this will be +15 per Exam Prep if he has 30 Magical Theory. For a student with 10 Theory, it'll be +5.
However, Study only offers so much. Each time it adds 5x of your relevant Skill value, Study Actions double their DC per step (from 20 to 40, and then 40 to 80). So in practice studying a lot can only get you so far without the actual knowledge.
The median mark for each class this term will be approximately 150 (100 from the relevant, roughly 2 Study actions with 2.5 successes each). You can expect the top 10% of each class to be somewhere in the 350-400 vicinity. The absolute top of the class differs by each class, however - outliers exist and you will not necessarily know who they are.
Example:
Ulos takes the Magical Theory exam with 30 in his relevant Skill.
His base mark is 300. However, he rolled 100 on a Study Action, getting him 5 additional bonuses worthi 50% of his Skill each. So he gets another 5x15 = 90 making his final mark 390.
Each Exam offers a grade dependent on the class. Some are Pass/Fail (history, souls and spirits), some are curved (theory).
Your grade is 10 time the relevant skill plus Study Action Bonuses.
Each 20 DC of Exam Prep you take offers an additional 50% of your relevant Skill to your Exam Results. For Ulos, this will be +15 per Exam Prep if he has 30 Magical Theory. For a student with 10 Theory, it'll be +5.
However, Study only offers so much. Each time it adds 5x of your relevant Skill value, Study Actions double their DC per step (from 20 to 40, and then 40 to 80). So in practice studying a lot can only get you so far without the actual knowledge.
The median mark for each class this term will be approximately 150 (100 from the relevant, roughly 2 Study actions with 2.5 successes each). You can expect the top 10% of each class to be somewhere in the 350-400 vicinity. The absolute top of the class differs by each class, however - outliers exist and you will not necessarily know who they are.
Example:
Ulos takes the Magical Theory exam with 30 in his relevant Skill.
His base mark is 300. However, he rolled 100 on a Study Action, getting him 5 additional bonuses worthi 50% of his Skill each. So he gets another 5x15 = 90 making his final mark 390.
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[X] Six Parts to the Key - Start searching for Miranova's hidden challenges. DC ???.
[X] Exam Prep (Theory)
[X] Suck Up To Inukar
[] Study Group
@occipitallobe what happens if we don't take the study group this week? Without willpower it's not that good but I worry the others will be mad.
I really think we should talk to Inukar/tell him what we did. Edward said he's one to hold a grudge. The mechanics show we need to study, at least once.
[X] Exam Prep (Theory)
[X] Suck Up To Inukar
[] Study Group
@occipitallobe what happens if we don't take the study group this week? Without willpower it's not that good but I worry the others will be mad.
I really think we should talk to Inukar/tell him what we did. Edward said he's one to hold a grudge. The mechanics show we need to study, at least once.
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- Location
- Straya
Your friends will be a little disappointed that you didn't show up, but hey, everyone misses a week here and there.
Barondoctor
The things I chase come to me.
- Location
- The other side of the mirror
- Pronouns
- He/His/Him
Hm. Far as cutting variance, shrinking die size or increasing die quantity are ways I like making swingy dice be forced to the middle.
Maybe not to 1d100 -> 25d4 levels, but maybe so. A study action granting you some fraction of your skill in extra dice per dc step could work.
But I'll come back and look at things and see what we really want to do.
Maybe not to 1d100 -> 25d4 levels, but maybe so. A study action granting you some fraction of your skill in extra dice per dc step could work.
But I'll come back and look at things and see what we really want to do.
- Location
- scrabbling
Thanks QM for taking concerns into account. Stuff like this keeps me reading and trusting you even if I do get frustrated with the variance of the quest.
[X] Six Parts to the Key - Start searching for Miranova's hidden challenges. DC ???.
[X] Exam Prep (Theory)
[X] Suck Up To Miranova
Rather than Inukar, who I think will always regard Ulos as a very deficient and disappointing version of Edward from now on, I would like to see if we can get Miranova more interested/invested in Ulos.
Mind you, the Key is completely a mystery box lol, I don't expect Ulos to 'win' it but I do think it'll be a good story to try.
Map or Brickworks might be nice protection against sabotage, which is more or less guaranteed, but I'm not sure how urgent that need is.
Just to be clear, how many actions more do we have before Exams? 9 or so?
[X] Six Parts to the Key - Start searching for Miranova's hidden challenges. DC ???.
[X] Exam Prep (Theory)
[X] Suck Up To Miranova
Rather than Inukar, who I think will always regard Ulos as a very deficient and disappointing version of Edward from now on, I would like to see if we can get Miranova more interested/invested in Ulos.
Mind you, the Key is completely a mystery box lol, I don't expect Ulos to 'win' it but I do think it'll be a good story to try.
Map or Brickworks might be nice protection against sabotage, which is more or less guaranteed, but I'm not sure how urgent that need is.
Just to be clear, how many actions more do we have before Exams? 9 or so?
[X] Exam Prep (Theory)
[X] Suck Up To Inukar
Edward says we should tell Inukar, so doing so would probably be a good idea, and studying for the exam is a necessity. I'd like to vote for Miranova's challenges as well, since they sound interesting, but I don't want to risk Miranova's challenges overtaking either exam prep or sucking up to Inukar.
[X] Suck Up To Inukar
Edward says we should tell Inukar, so doing so would probably be a good idea, and studying for the exam is a necessity. I'd like to vote for Miranova's challenges as well, since they sound interesting, but I don't want to risk Miranova's challenges overtaking either exam prep or sucking up to Inukar.
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- Location
- scrabbling
Edward was saying that he would do it:
That being said, it is true that tearing Ulos completely out of Inukar's grasp sharply might make him feel more strongly disappointed about it, and that sucking up immediately despite accepting Edward's offer could give him the feeling that he might still be able to guide Ulos to some degree. So I'm still gonna change my vote to sucking up to Inukar.
[X] Six Parts to the Key - Start searching for Miranova's hidden challenges. DC ???.
[X] Exam Prep (Theory)
[X] Suck Up To Inukar
