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A Simple Transaction I

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Duquette7 said:
Mostly it's about waste I think, any tech we buy at this lower tier of Praxis, will eventually be rendered obsolete by it's Imperial counterpart, as such, as we are determined to get Imperial, rushing that selection, then investing in techs seems prudent.

Right now seems like the time to invest in our potential, with the power we gained from the temple, your repeated assurance that we had out scaled the curse, and the fact that we can buy Praxis points piecemeal.

With that much of a cushion, if we cant afford a potential EFB now, when could we?
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I can't imagine why you think that we don't need to grow stronger fast after getting an look at the sort of shit apocryphal can do even outscaled. Anyone of those things is fully capable of killing us. People are seriously understimating them.

Edit: We are an Progression type, what matters is survival. If we survive, we will never stop growing, that's just how our shit works. And
pure potential requires further investment in picks and arete to be harnessed too.
 
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Duquette7 said:
Mostly it's about waste I think, any tech we buy at this lower tier of Praxis, will eventually be rendered obsolete by it's Imperial counterpart, as such, as we are determined to get Imperial, rushing that selection, then investing in techs seems prudent.
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I don't think the gap between Royal and Imperial is as impactful as you guys seem to believe. As mentioned before, it's similar to the difference between a Celestial and Solaroid Exaltation! Sure, it may pay out dividends in the long term, but the long term could be measured in multiple Geas tasks! And what's to stop you from upgrading your existing Praxis techniques with additional effort afterwards?

Byzantine said:
The probability of a group that massively outstats us in every way that matters being nearly killed capturing a single mage the republic believes they can control is fairly unlikely. At that point you basically have to park an armament behind the mage.
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What makes you think they got those wounds from capturing the mage?

Shard said:
We could try Twice with Kill-Joy + Ber or Keep it Simple + Ber.
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Or just One + Ber! Why not, you'll expend this Apocryphal Proc on an enemy you know you can defeat with the right Advancements!

Wolfy said:
Meh, we can take em
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Maybe. But can your companions survive the battle or small war that would result?
 
Rihaku said:
What makes you think they got those wounds from capturing the mage?
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The way it was originally described way back when, and the fact they still have the mage with them. Something that attacked them after the mage was captured would likely have killed, crippled, or freed said mage and was probably capable of it given the extent of the damage they had suffered. Thus logic dictates they either got the shit beaten out of them before capturing the mage, which seems rather unwise, or it happened while capturing the mage.
 
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Rihaku said:
I don't think the gap between Royal and Imperial is as impactful as you guys seem to believe. As mentioned before, it's similar to the difference between a Celestial and Solaroid Exaltation! Sure, it may pay out dividends in the long term, but the long term could be measured in multiple Geas tasks! And what's to stop you from upgrading your existing Praxis techniques with additional effort afterwards?
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Are you implying that any Celestial Exalt wouldn't cut off both their hands just to get Solar Exaltation?

Imagine being poor Lunar mage and no matter what you do you can't access Adamant Circle..
Maybe. But can your companions survive the battle or small war that would result?
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"Some of you might die, but that's a sacrifice I'm ready to make."
 
Byzantine said:
Something that attacked them after the mage was captured would likely have killed, crippled, or freed said mage and was probably capable of it given the extent of the damage they had suffered.
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That's a random assumption to make. Perhaps you're underestimating their commitment to their objective. Some deductive leaps are a bridge too far.

Wolfy said:
Are you implying that any Celestial Exalt wouldn't cut off both their hands just to get Solar Exaltation?
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Like, permanently or what ...? Because if they can just heal them that's not an issue!
 
In retrospect, I don't know why we would choose a threat at 80% and another at 90% compared to just one at 100%. That's like 70% extra danger we don't need, especially if Apocryphal can help the longer-term threats like Ber and Thorn even more. Just take the hit here, it's far safer.

Do think the fact that there's alternate methods of conflict resolution with the Republic team puts it above just the Rotbeast for me; considering even killing it safely might cause a ton of problems for our Rank gain efforts due to it's mountain size screwing up the Elixir civ. I think the Kill-Team is more survivable then that for the civ, plus I think that the Prototypes and the mystery mage is more enticing than more picks. Tech for Gisena's artifice is like half the reason we came her in the first place!
 
runeblue360 said:
The builds required to face these challenges are different and if the Apocryphal nudges them to work together, we'd be in some deep shit. Bearic telling the Thorn's wielder about the time we murdered his friends while protecting a terrifying monster likely throws diplomacy out the window while his ability to teleport would massively speed up the Thorn's journey. God help us if the thing considers him a valid wielder (though that's pretty unlikely).
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Why would the builds be different? Even assuming the greatest solution here is diplomacy, we still need some raw power to back it up and to use in case diplomacy fails. At least enough strength to defeat 80% Ber seems necessary. And the chances of the dangers combining seem rather low - the dangers are spread across both time and distance, with Ber attacking in two weeks and Thorn on the other side of the Voyaging Realm not even in the hands of a good wielder yet. Plus, it would somewhat go against our current vote here.
 
Rihaku said:
That's a random assumption to make. Perhaps you're underestimating their commitment to their objective. Some deductive leaps are a bridge too far.
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Being committed to your objective does not make it a not-stupid idea to pursue and capture a mage after taking the kind of damage they did. It effectively guarantees a party wipe if they run into any unexpected trouble or the mage is slightly beyond their expectations.

But part of my expectation about the danger here is your go-to when we started picking wasn't how risky it was for Hunger or our companions. It was how bad that combo of picks was for the Sovereignty. The second doesn't preclude the first, but it makes it unlikely given past behavior. You know we react more strongly to our companions being in danger than random people.
 
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BrainInAJar said:
In retrospect, I don't know why we would choose a threat at 80% and another at 90% compared to just one at 100%. That's like 70% extra danger we don't need, especially if Apocryphal can help the longer-term threats like Ber and Thorn even more. Just take the hit here, it's far safer.
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Well, if we properly spread the dangers in time, it would allow us to use Progression Cursebearer's greatest strength - growing with time, and, in our case, with defeated opponents. Facing 170% danger at the same time would be bad, but facing 80% while we're at 100% and facing 90% while we're at 300% could be worth it.

Edit: Also, if Apocryphal can't send us new dangers until the current set is resolved, long-lasting but weaker threats could be worth it just for that.
 
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[X] Two
[X] Republic Kill-Joys
[X] Keepin' it Simple

Changed my mind. The angst and trauma of Gisena, Aeira, sovereignty etc dying calls to me. Apocryphal-chan best gurl.
 
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I'm starting to think that anyone who doesn't like the winning combo should at least approval vote One because that's be way less bad than having both immediate threats at the same time.
agumentic said:
Well, if we properly spread the dangers in time, it would allow us to use Progression Cursebearer's greatest strength - growing with time, and, in our case, with defeated opponents. Facing 170% danger at the same time would be bad, but facing 80% while we're at 100% and facing 90% while we're at 300% could be worth it.
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Guess what's winning right now though! We shouldn't expect to even have a Sovereignty left should we choose Republic plus Simple...
 
BrainInAJar said:
I'm starting to think that anyone who doesn't like the winning combo should at least approval vote One because that's be way less bad than having both immediate threats at the same time.

Guess what's winning right now though! We shouldn't expect to even have a Sovereignty left should we choose Republic plus Simple...
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Well, there are some hopes that we will manage to steer the dangers into each other? That's understandable, but somewhat too optimistic, in my opinion. So yeah, I am not a fan of currently winning combination.
 
agumentic said:
Why would the builds be different? Even assuming the greatest solution here is diplomacy, we still need some raw power to back it up and to use in case diplomacy fails. At least enough strength to defeat 80% Ber seems necessary. And the chances of the dangers combining seem rather low - the dangers are spread across both time and distance, with Ber attacking in two weeks and Thorn on the other side of the Voyaging Realm not even in the hands of a good wielder yet. Plus, it would somewhat go against our current vote here.
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Bearic's build is Silver -> Trinity -> ADS/OaF because for an opponent who's roughly at our level, the best way to beat them is just to overpower and outscale them.

Thorn's build is the Praxis because for an opponent who will shounen powerup their way to being stronger than us anyway, might-agnostic abilities like the Praxis give us a much better chance of fighting them.

As for why they'd combined, the Apocryphal exists and Bearic can teleport, making time and distance no real problem for him.

BrainInAJar said:
In retrospect, I don't know why we would choose a threat at 80% and another at 90% compared to just one at 100%. That's like 70% extra danger we don't need, especially if Apocryphal can help the longer-term threats like Ber and Thorn even more. Just take the hit here, it's far safer.
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Well, if the threshold for dying is 95%...
 
Byzantine said:
Being committed to your objective does not make it a not-stupid idea to pursue and capture a mage after taking the kind of damage they did. It effectively guarantees a party wipe if they run into any unexpected trouble or the mage is slightly beyond their expectations.
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You're still-committed to the very assumption I told you was wrong!

BrainInAJar said:
I'm starting to think that anyone who doesn't like the winning combo should at least approval vote One because that's be way less bad than having both immediate threats at the same time.

Guess what's winning right now though! We shouldn't expect to even have a Sovereignty left should we choose Republic plus Simple...
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Would you rather fight a level 13, then a level 15 mage, or one that's level 17? It's not necessarily a trivial decision!

runeblue360 said:
Thorn's build is the Praxis because for an opponent who will shounen powerup their way to being stronger than us anyway, might-agnostic abilities like the Praxis give us a much better chance of fighting them.
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You could also just keep running away from Thorn!
 
Come on guys, vote for Republic Kill-Joys
+ Keepin' it Simple, don't you want an glorious foursome between Republican Special Ops, an foremost AI, nimble Rotbeast and dashing Lord Hunger!? Imagine the R A N K gain through Feats if we can pull off an win, who cares about fame anyway.
 
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runeblue360 said:
Bearic's build is Silver -> Trinity -> ADS/OaF because for an opponent who's roughly at our level, the best way to beat them is just to overpower and outscale them.
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I wouldn't want to deal with the Thorn without Silver-Trinity-ADS anyway, so that's a bit of a moot point for me. We will probably want both that and Praxis to reliably fight them.
runeblue360 said:
As for why they'd combined, the Apocryphal exists and Bearic can teleport, making time and distance no real problem for him.
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Yeah, that seems like a stretch to me. Apocryphal already spends a lot on arranging those threats in the first place, that it (she?) will spend more on having them meet and synergize against all odds seems sounds very unlikely.
 
I think that spreading the Apocryphal juice over two softer encounters is better. Going for an example, I'd rather have to make two slightly shorter but really difficult jumps across streams while on a hike than try to make one longer jump that might just be beyond me. This doesn't even capture all of it, because while the discount is 20% reduction and 10% reduction of difficulty, beating one encounter allows us to ladder upwards to meet the difficulty of the other encounter. Frankly, I think playing the two right offers a way better risk risk/reward ratio than trying to hack a single one of these situations at full strength, all of which are necessarily kinda dodgy.
 
So, what I've gotten is that every single option but Ber risks screwing us horribly.

And Ber will screw us unless the thread gets it together.

This is very frustrating.
 
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