- Location
- Pindorama
Imagine arguing 2 Arete makes all the difference between the Ring rewards and then essentially paying one Arete for no mechanical benefit whatsoever...
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Lealope
Not yet invincible
- Pronouns
- She/Her
Imagine being willing to make Letrizia sad for one Arete while taking a soft touch with a piece of jewelry that was confirmed to be unaffected by its issues in any substantial way, giving up on a Royal Advancement and scaling for Gisena in the process.
If we're talking power left on the table, well...
If we're talking power left on the table, well...
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- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Letrizia hasn't been suffering for the last X thousand years.
- Location
- Pindorama
It's spilled soup vs unimaginable torture for ten thousand+ years. Apparently the former is more important somehow. Voting for spilling and Vassalage is perfectly consistent. Grace and Vassalage is not. Can't believe Grace even had a lead considering this.
- Location
- Italy
[X] Let It Rest
Duquette7
I am Fire, and I am Rain
If it was just two interchangeable Arete I would agree with you, but Rihaku's repeated warnings about breakpoints lead me to believe that the the ring rewards are special options the Ring of Time is generating for us out of it's own power, and we cant spend thread generated Arete on them, only Arete provided by the Ring itself.
Either that or the ring only bothers to generate options up to the limit of the power it is preparing to expend, we only get one shot at this, and the opportunity cost here is much higher then a measly two points in vacuum.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Fanwork#1265 Words
She's never going to drop the title, is she? This is our punishment for passing over so many +Letrizia options.
As usual, her Imperialistic ideals are somewhat concerning, but Hunger's in no position to call her on them with his Geas task. And the Tyrant's Doom. He's like a bajillion times worse on that front. The thing that actually seems odd is how she dismissed Verschengorge's company. It's not weird to prefer human company, but on top of "you don't need to pet him" and stuff she comes off as a bit cold.
I'd think she was affected by the Call, but at the moment nobody is. Looks like Hunger's reaction to the Ring's captivity isn't especially unique to him; has his opinion rubbed off on her in combination with her frustration to produce this dislike, or does anyone who sees this instinctively know that it's wrong? Or maybe its just that hers are particularly sharp; I was going to call out that last line obnoxiously, "She has Rank instincts now so it's not all-", but that might be a hint to lumber towards the Empire soonish.
It happens to everyone, just cook and do magic and try not to worry about it.
Prime Letrizia backstory morsels are happening, there is a Yui and she likes plushies. Sharpbright would probably apply to sewing, so you could make one for her! Wouldn't that love mean more than any other magic? Or you could ask Lord Hunger to fill it with blood, which is basically the same thing as love and/or passion.
Nobody's fooled by your "Vacation," Hunger, there is no trip you make that is not a training trip. How does it feel to be seen?
Is Rank, even that accessed through Surgecraft, something that requires acknowledgement? I think she's letter her piloting experience carry over too much, there, but working on control probably requires more or less the same training.
Obviously piloting the Devouring Armament for any significant period is going to rip through your lifeforce, but I don't think I've seen Letrizia acknowledge that before. And everyone knows that it's a position of sacrifice; even more for her, the Devouring Affliction is the worst to have to start dealing with at a younger age. Maybe the Emperor's power grab wasn't so unsuccessful, was her betrayal a longer time in coming than I thought? She doesn't seem too concerned about her lifespan if she thinks that she has time to be a successful hero and noble, let me do math-
Unmitigated Devouring is 10% of all life force in range. I can't find where she said she started, but I know it was young. Around 10? Human Realm lifespan is probably much more than 100, but I'll be conservative here. For 9 years- oh, she'd live to 35 is she dropped it now. I guess her problem isn't that imminent after all, so if she pushes herself she can still leave a mark. I'm glad we should be able to Ennoble her soon, though, even if it isn't urgent it should be a weight off her back to know that there's plenty of magic that can solve her problem.
There's nobody I like enough to sacrifice 10% of my lifespan per year to constantly spend time around, I know that much. How lonely chibi-Zea must have been. ;_; Fuck, I was just saying that we should chuck Aeira in the dumpster when we leave to avoid the apocalypse, but even my cold, soup-spilling heart might not be able to follow through with that. Guess we'll just have to outscale the Voyaging Realm's apocalypse, it's nothing compared to Letrizia's smile!
The updates just keep getting more intense. Hunger's brutal knifing of Evangeline was incredibly hype, but as you can see from the title, it's Letrlzia who is actually on the Forefront of the action. And Rank research, and giant robot piloting.
And cooking- the tension is overwhelming, what could she possibly be thinking? Following recipes involving potato-and-bone-broth should be easy, but as tempting as it is to just spam "Be like the Forefront," you have to use your sharpness to carve your own bright future. For future Zea build votes, we need to remember to stack more +Con to support the Not Dying gang, this level of hot soup shouldn't still be a challenge for her. Luckily, she's "Careful" and "Cautious" so despite taking the riskier job of hanging out in the giant robot while Hunger lazes around doing bossfights, the backup protagonist is still more likely to survive.
Don't hold back, even Soup can be deadly if you forget to make use of all your resources. Cook it with your sharp, bright flame! Congratulations to all the Tactics posters who suggested heat and Pressure, it was the perfect approach to take against this enemy. I was wrong to think it would spill the soup, RANk is as convenient as always. More than that, she doesn't even have to do any research or anything, she just instinctively knows how to make good food. Well, based on her extensive history of food nerdery that we don't quite know about. Still, Sharpbright is wonderful. Letrizia shouldn't get too cocky, though, this soup isn't done yet!
It's a bit early to say "always" when you've been traveling together for less than a month. Especially when lots of your meals are rations. To say nothing of the confounding variable of the Fucking Fish, if you put that in anything he'd love it.
She's never going to drop the title, is she? This is our punishment for passing over so many +Letrizia options.
You can't just acknowledge the fact that you're not the one at risk, I'm doing a bit here! Letrizia will have her glory soon enough, Rank 7.4 blood healing should leave you and Verschlengorge as the strongest in the party by a large margin, at least for a while. I'm super excited to see it, even a fraction of the power she once wielded is enormous. Even more so than Hunger, the parallelism is rampant.
As usual, her Imperialistic ideals are somewhat concerning, but Hunger's in no position to call her on them with his Geas task. And the Tyrant's Doom. He's like a bajillion times worse on that front. The thing that actually seems odd is how she dismissed Verschengorge's company. It's not weird to prefer human company, but on top of "you don't need to pet him" and stuff she comes off as a bit cold.
I'd think she was affected by the Call, but at the moment nobody is. Looks like Hunger's reaction to the Ring's captivity isn't especially unique to him; has his opinion rubbed off on her in combination with her frustration to produce this dislike, or does anyone who sees this instinctively know that it's wrong? Or maybe its just that hers are particularly sharp; I was going to call out that last line obnoxiously, "She has Rank instincts now so it's not all-", but that might be a hint to lumber towards the Empire soonish.
Yeah, I definitely can't keep up the joke at this point. It's good that Hunger didn't tell Letrizia the exact details of how far over his head he is, she's already worrying enough. Though, with Sharpbright, I wonder how effective hiding things from her would be. One more day, then you can be relevant again.
Even mission control is doing something valuable, even if they also have to learn to cope with not being on the ground. Truth is that you are useless here.
It happens to everyone, just cook and do magic and try not to worry about it.Prime Letrizia backstory morsels are happening, there is a Yui and she likes plushies. Sharpbright would probably apply to sewing, so you could make one for her! Wouldn't that love mean more than any other magic? Or you could ask Lord Hunger to fill it with blood, which is basically the same thing as love and/or passion.
Oof, Letrizia feels less worthy than Aeira, who's basically still a rando mercenary we picked up to fill the numbers at this point. Microwave's art aside. Yeah, she needs some glory ASAP. Seems she's decided on where we're going next- I completely agree with heading towards the City, but if the voters decide otherwise I'm sure Hunger can convince her to wait. Not that it seems likely, we're struggling to make her feel bad for an Arete as it is.
Nobody's fooled by your "Vacation," Hunger, there is no trip you make that is not a training trip. How does it feel to be seen?
The background becomes dark and abstract, her eyes close dramatically, ghostly copies of her face appear. The viewers can hear every word you're thinking, now spin around, please. Special effects are the second best use of Pressure after bladewinds, you get an A-, be proud.
Is Rank, even that accessed through Surgecraft, something that requires acknowledgement? I think she's letter her piloting experience carry over too much, there, but working on control probably requires more or less the same training.
Obviously piloting the Devouring Armament for any significant period is going to rip through your lifeforce, but I don't think I've seen Letrizia acknowledge that before. And everyone knows that it's a position of sacrifice; even more for her, the Devouring Affliction is the worst to have to start dealing with at a younger age. Maybe the Emperor's power grab wasn't so unsuccessful, was her betrayal a longer time in coming than I thought? She doesn't seem too concerned about her lifespan if she thinks that she has time to be a successful hero and noble, let me do math-
Unmitigated Devouring is 10% of all life force in range. I can't find where she said she started, but I know it was young. Around 10? Human Realm lifespan is probably much more than 100, but I'll be conservative here. For 9 years- oh, she'd live to 35 is she dropped it now. I guess her problem isn't that imminent after all, so if she pushes herself she can still leave a mark. I'm glad we should be able to Ennoble her soon, though, even if it isn't urgent it should be a weight off her back to know that there's plenty of magic that can solve her problem.
Yeah, all that I was saying about Letrizia and Verschlengorge's relationship? Chuck that down the drain, it's nonsense. She's just being a tsundere, she was scolding Hunger for the same petting she was doing. Maybe there's a conflict between Imperial propaganda about Armaments (or not, who knows) and Verschlengorge's personhood, but she's clearly not letting it influence how she actually treats him.
There's nobody I like enough to sacrifice 10% of my lifespan per year to constantly spend time around, I know that much. How lonely chibi-Zea must have been. ;_; Fuck, I was just saying that we should chuck Aeira in the dumpster when we leave to avoid the apocalypse, but even my cold, soup-spilling heart might not be able to follow through with that. Guess we'll just have to outscale the Voyaging Realm's apocalypse, it's nothing compared to Letrizia's smile!
Rihaku
The Internet
What's the current vote count?
How far would you guys really go to protect that Zea smile? Would you pay 1 Arete?
How far would you guys really go to protect that Zea smile? Would you pay 1 Arete?
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
All the options rescue the ring from torture. Rest gives up 2 arete and the increased scaling speed of Vassal in return for making the ring slightly less salty. Vassal even still reduces it's saltiness! You're giving up considerable power just to make a character we won't even be interacting with slightly happier, at least we'll see Zea's reaction if we give up 1 arete to save the soup!
Protecting three smiles takes more effort than protecting one though.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Changing the nature of the Rings is a pie in the sky goal we will never read about. We can restore the Ring to the circumstances it wanted all along and improve the conditions of what we will actually cover in quest.
Concerning Letrizia's soup, the Temple has been a stressful ordeal and I think both us and the characters could use the relaxation of a comfy meal update.
It's fine if your values are different, you have your own vote to cast. Calling it inconsistent, however, is simply refusing to empathize with another perspective and accept they don't have the same criteria as you for evaluating the options.
Concerning Letrizia's soup, the Temple has been a stressful ordeal and I think both us and the characters could use the relaxation of a comfy meal update.
A Ring's psychology is not a human's, and the audience's attachment to the Azure Ring isn't their attachment to Letrizia.
It's fine if your values are different, you have your own vote to cast. Calling it inconsistent, however, is simply refusing to empathize with another perspective and accept they don't have the same criteria as you for evaluating the options.
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I'd be wiling to kill the Emperor, I'm not sure how smile worthy a position of puppet rule is though.
So, I didn't realize we had so little arete so here is some more writing on shaping. I'll try to get some more done tonight before the update if I can, I have some ideas that I feel I can work with. As always feedback is welcome.
The practice of shaping bears many taboos. These are held not as a matter of superstition nor of culture, but for reasons of existential import. Namely, the breaking of these taboos put shapers of varying degrees of skill and power, as well as all those around them, in untenable danger. Some, if broken, can lead to the total collapse and destruction of the reality in which they are broken (although this is quite rare).
The first and primary taboo of shaping is the direct interference with the shape of which reality is composed. This is held as taboo as for shapers who have not yet achieved mastery, as they cannot directly perceive shapes with their senses and thus cannot reconstruct any portions of reality they destroy. The act of working with the shape of reality blindly dramatically increases the chance that something will go wrong weather it is because a crucial part of the shape of reality is destroyed or because some aspect of the changes made to the shape of reality brings about catastrophic results. As even an adept would be unable to fix or reverse such alterations as they might impose on reality and in the event should they try to, likely will make things far, far worse than they were before, even the suspicion of having done so is punished harshly by those who know and respect taboo.
An extension of this taboo that is held to apply to all shapers is no making changes to reality that one cannot themselves reverse. While the first taboo is held and punished harshly because of the extreme likelihood of catastrophe in the event of it being broken, this is held as taboo more as a matter of common sense and personal responsibility. The range and variety of phenomenon, creatures, laws, and objects that shaping can give rise to are extremely broad and often esoteric. Many effects are self-perpetuating, and more still give rise to ancillary effects from their initial results. Other shapings, if poorly designed, may proceed to drain a reality of matter and energy in a runaway manner until nothing is left to fuel it. Some effects, though they may not have the problems previously mentioned, may make life impossible or otherwise incredibly inconvenient through a combination of esoteric, arbitrary, or just plain poorly though out results. All this being known, it is generally held to be tasteless to commit such a shaping without the means to reverse to beforehand (or any other way to stem it as it runs its course be it through contingency shapings or a watchful mentor or ally). Punishment for such a break with taboo is generally proportional with the crime ranging from the light, to the hideously ironic, to the severely horrifying (sometimes even making use of the shaping that the taboo breaker could not themselves reign in).
Another most sever taboo even for masters is that of altering or changing the shape of their self, particularly without contingencies. Punishments of this taboo are less common and tend to be less harsh outside of unusual circumstances. Often it is kept only to a swift and merciful death. This is because, without caution and proper preparations, most cases of this taboo end with the crippling, wounding, or otherwise severely harming of the taboo breaker to the degree that it is almost not worth punishing them if the damage is at all reversible. However, it is the other cases, of successful but unwise and often irreversible alterations to the self, that establish the necessity of punishment. See, without some failsafe to immediately halt or reverse the alteration of one's self when it goes wrong or produces unexpected results, the person that comes out of said alteration may not want to return to who they are. This person may be anyone from a simply some who is distinctly not the person they were before, to a sociopath or psychopath, to someone who has one or several of their emotions raised to such heights or twisted just so that they their behaviors are warped by it, to stranger more alien and more problematic modes of thought. Or they could come out seeming perfectly normal, with all their alterations successful, only to learn day, or years, or decades, or centuries later that they are possessed of some new trigger, pet peeve, or dormant hatred that was just waiting to come to the fore and have them murder literally everyone who someone they know knows but is not their acquaintance, stuff their souls into their shadows, stuff their shadows into their skins, and turn them into a race of horrific servitor creatures trapped doubly within themselves unable to resister their killer's commands. Or maybe they will just try and uplift everyone in a manner that inevitably kills them or something. These however are little more than the mental and spiritual aspects of what could go wrong in self-shaping. Plenty of cases end with twisting of the flesh as well though it is typically less common as it is easier to know the effects of a precise alteration will have upon one's body. Still plenty of incautious shapers, masters included have ended up with everything to deformities to trapped within their own twisted bodies which act without thought or consent from their minds. Cases purely limited to the warping of the flesh are punished less harshly as such mistakes and changes cannot really be made on a truly problematic scale until a master either knows better than to make them and has the knowledge and skill not to make mistakes with such alterations, or in the case that such was the result that they were aiming for. The point being that while there is a great deal of compassion for those who fail at self-shaping in a more conventional and painful manner such individuals too must be punished if only to set an example of what will happen to those who incautiously mess with their self and to discourage the unintentional birth of more abominations of flesh and spirit.
While these are some of the most strictly held taboos, it must be remembered that ultimately all taboos in shaping are ultimately only held over shapers who lack the capacity to yet work with a given taboo properly. For example, who would dare tell an ascendant grand shaper not to change themselves or the world around them when such changes are an innate result of their mere existence rather than any conscious act on their part. More reasonably, shaping taboos are a combinations of prohibitions for people who do not yet have the ability to mess with a branch or style of shaping without seriously mucking it up and subsequently much of their reality as well for the rest of us, and necessarily enforced caution on those who do not yet have the ability to simply reverse the potentially catastrophic effects of their ill considered ventures with a wave of their hand whether they care or not.
Shaping, Taboos
The practice of shaping bears many taboos. These are held not as a matter of superstition nor of culture, but for reasons of existential import. Namely, the breaking of these taboos put shapers of varying degrees of skill and power, as well as all those around them, in untenable danger. Some, if broken, can lead to the total collapse and destruction of the reality in which they are broken (although this is quite rare).
The first and primary taboo of shaping is the direct interference with the shape of which reality is composed. This is held as taboo as for shapers who have not yet achieved mastery, as they cannot directly perceive shapes with their senses and thus cannot reconstruct any portions of reality they destroy. The act of working with the shape of reality blindly dramatically increases the chance that something will go wrong weather it is because a crucial part of the shape of reality is destroyed or because some aspect of the changes made to the shape of reality brings about catastrophic results. As even an adept would be unable to fix or reverse such alterations as they might impose on reality and in the event should they try to, likely will make things far, far worse than they were before, even the suspicion of having done so is punished harshly by those who know and respect taboo.
An extension of this taboo that is held to apply to all shapers is no making changes to reality that one cannot themselves reverse. While the first taboo is held and punished harshly because of the extreme likelihood of catastrophe in the event of it being broken, this is held as taboo more as a matter of common sense and personal responsibility. The range and variety of phenomenon, creatures, laws, and objects that shaping can give rise to are extremely broad and often esoteric. Many effects are self-perpetuating, and more still give rise to ancillary effects from their initial results. Other shapings, if poorly designed, may proceed to drain a reality of matter and energy in a runaway manner until nothing is left to fuel it. Some effects, though they may not have the problems previously mentioned, may make life impossible or otherwise incredibly inconvenient through a combination of esoteric, arbitrary, or just plain poorly though out results. All this being known, it is generally held to be tasteless to commit such a shaping without the means to reverse to beforehand (or any other way to stem it as it runs its course be it through contingency shapings or a watchful mentor or ally). Punishment for such a break with taboo is generally proportional with the crime ranging from the light, to the hideously ironic, to the severely horrifying (sometimes even making use of the shaping that the taboo breaker could not themselves reign in).
Another most sever taboo even for masters is that of altering or changing the shape of their self, particularly without contingencies. Punishments of this taboo are less common and tend to be less harsh outside of unusual circumstances. Often it is kept only to a swift and merciful death. This is because, without caution and proper preparations, most cases of this taboo end with the crippling, wounding, or otherwise severely harming of the taboo breaker to the degree that it is almost not worth punishing them if the damage is at all reversible. However, it is the other cases, of successful but unwise and often irreversible alterations to the self, that establish the necessity of punishment. See, without some failsafe to immediately halt or reverse the alteration of one's self when it goes wrong or produces unexpected results, the person that comes out of said alteration may not want to return to who they are. This person may be anyone from a simply some who is distinctly not the person they were before, to a sociopath or psychopath, to someone who has one or several of their emotions raised to such heights or twisted just so that they their behaviors are warped by it, to stranger more alien and more problematic modes of thought. Or they could come out seeming perfectly normal, with all their alterations successful, only to learn day, or years, or decades, or centuries later that they are possessed of some new trigger, pet peeve, or dormant hatred that was just waiting to come to the fore and have them murder literally everyone who someone they know knows but is not their acquaintance, stuff their souls into their shadows, stuff their shadows into their skins, and turn them into a race of horrific servitor creatures trapped doubly within themselves unable to resister their killer's commands. Or maybe they will just try and uplift everyone in a manner that inevitably kills them or something. These however are little more than the mental and spiritual aspects of what could go wrong in self-shaping. Plenty of cases end with twisting of the flesh as well though it is typically less common as it is easier to know the effects of a precise alteration will have upon one's body. Still plenty of incautious shapers, masters included have ended up with everything to deformities to trapped within their own twisted bodies which act without thought or consent from their minds. Cases purely limited to the warping of the flesh are punished less harshly as such mistakes and changes cannot really be made on a truly problematic scale until a master either knows better than to make them and has the knowledge and skill not to make mistakes with such alterations, or in the case that such was the result that they were aiming for. The point being that while there is a great deal of compassion for those who fail at self-shaping in a more conventional and painful manner such individuals too must be punished if only to set an example of what will happen to those who incautiously mess with their self and to discourage the unintentional birth of more abominations of flesh and spirit.
While these are some of the most strictly held taboos, it must be remembered that ultimately all taboos in shaping are ultimately only held over shapers who lack the capacity to yet work with a given taboo properly. For example, who would dare tell an ascendant grand shaper not to change themselves or the world around them when such changes are an innate result of their mere existence rather than any conscious act on their part. More reasonably, shaping taboos are a combinations of prohibitions for people who do not yet have the ability to mess with a branch or style of shaping without seriously mucking it up and subsequently much of their reality as well for the rest of us, and necessarily enforced caution on those who do not yet have the ability to simply reverse the potentially catastrophic effects of their ill considered ventures with a wave of their hand whether they care or not.
We managed to generate 6 Arete the previous update and the Arete has not been calculated for this one.
...Ahem, I mean "BACK TO THE ARETE MINES"
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
So I think it's question about intellectual consistency instead of about values. Spilling points in the direction of additional Arete, and vassalage points in the direction of additional power. But Grace points in the direction of emotional sentiment while vassalage points in the direction of power. The momentum of the two options seems to cancel each other out
Rihaku
The Internet
That was from 2 updates' worth of fanworks! And Arete for this update has been calculated above.
Vassalage is more about compromise than power given its relative station!
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
You can have notable emotional sentiment about some things but not others and weigh your opinions on emotional sentiment against power and arete. People are complex and multifaceted and there's plenty of room for the complexities of the options to be weighed against each other.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I'm under the impression this is a secret power for us vs power for Letrezia vote. Grace+Vassalage in that light splits power between Letrezia by letting her progress on training her Sharpbright and us.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
i think it's just soup
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
I don't think Rihaku does secret power for us vs power for them votes.
Not nearly as dramatic as making us actually choose which we want more knowingly.
Like the times we've voted to give Gisena power have been very explicit about it.
- Location
- Pindorama
The inhumanity of the Rings perspective seems greatly exaggerated to me, considering all of its actions thus far. The only real inhumanity in it was that it was able to endure ten thousand years of torture with it's sanity intact. Otherwise all of its actions seems in line with that of a human given similar power; it's even got a sense of humor given the whole Count of Monte Cristo bit. I think it is more human than it has been argued thus far.
lol "empathizing with perspectives"
That it is their opinion is obvious; I just think their opinion is inconsistent. This is a forum meant to discuss things so I'm not going to let them get away with that. If you think there is a valid perspective that validates those choices, then explain it and leave it exposed to criticism.
But having notable sentiment towards spilled soup and not for thousand of years of torture is ????. I know you will say that Rings are inhuman existences, I say that its actions in the text point otherwise; if it's inhuman, it's not overly so. If the Arete is unnecessary compared to extremely momentary happiness of making a nice soup, why is 2 Arete certainly necessary compared to solving massive amounts of long-lasting trauma of a tortured individual?* That 7 Arete is a "breakpoint" is not enough given the extreme disparities of pain involved; and we need every single point of Arete we can get if we want as many EFBs the thread as expressed interest in.
Even if you say you just like Letrizia and don't care for the Ring, that extra Arete is likely going to do a lot more for her in general than a nice soup, especially if we take the 7 Arete vassalage. It's worse than that time we voted for that Gisena mystery box; at least that had a chance of doing something. Grabbing Arete here would be better for literally everyone.
*Note, you can consistently argue the opposite; that spilling soup is fine but leaving trauma unsolved is not, simply because the latter is much more severe. But prioritizing the far lesser distress...?
No need to shadowrun this, it's likely just soup. I don't think @Rihaku generally leaves mechanical benefits hidden anyway.
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