3 (KILL THE OTHER IMMORTALS): Possible Tactics
Another tactic!
3c.) You have lived for so long that your only remaining legacy is now the torture of the Ring. Help set it free and your position in the history books will be one of honor instead of horror.
 
I will just copy vali post and be off.

"The "plan" so to speak is to briefly skim over the voting options, with various aesthetic preferences being paramount to the process of deciding which pick is best. If none of these pre-existing preferences apply, immediately pick whichever one looks coolest and have that be the core of a new aesthetic preference. Next, hop into the comments and immediately begin attempting to justify that aesthetic preference as being imminently rational, merely one step in a grand strategy that will result in Hunger being the best and having all the coolest toys. Rarely, the more weak-willed voters will be swayed by feeble arguments such as "pick this to not die" "

Always forever relevant.

I do want to say I kind of hate seeing this crop up on literally every build choice. I want to hope it's tongue in cheek, but their are a lot of posters here who have made actual serious arguments that their the only ones who are capable of rational decision making and literally everyone who disagrees with them is a lemming who is incapable of a coherent argument and it just gets tiring after a while.

Literally everyone, you, Vali, and myself included have made a bunch of claims or assumptions that didn't turn out true at some point, under or overestimated some risk, or something alone those lines. On the other foot, most people have also had times where they've been on the right side of a decision and were able to rationally arrive at the best conclusion.

I know a bunch of people can sometimes let these arguments affect us negatively to the point where we avoid substantial discussion in the thread for a time, and I think some of them might be alleviated if we're a little less sure that almost every single choice with any sort of gravitas in the game was one between absolute 100% victory coming with incredible gains and a 100% chance of death.
 
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Literally everyone, you, Vali, and myself included have made a bunch of claims or assumptions that didn't turn out true at some point, under or overestimated some risk, or something alone those lines. On the other foot, most people have also had times where they've been on the right side of a decision and were able to rationally arrive at the best conclusion.
Perhaps this will put it in perspective:

Remember, if we had chosen Sten last pick we would have been crippled, at best with how we rolled.

I am very, very tired of taking stupid risks when we have another option right in front of us. It is getting ridiculous.

We've paid far higher opportunity costs than 7 arete and 3 picks by making risky decisions before.
 
Perhaps this will put it in perspective:

Remember, if we had chosen Sten last pick we would have been crippled, at best with how we rolled.

I am very, very tired of taking stupid risks when we have another option right in front of us. It is getting ridiculous.

We've paid far higher opportunity costs than 7 arete and 3 picks by making risky decisions before.
Agreed. Lets just pick the safest option(whether Avenger or Headsman) and just win this without collecting another complication please.
 
Fucking hell

[X] Forebear's Blade - Headsman
[X] Age
Avenger is currently within striking distance of the greedy Preeminence build. As things get closer to the close of the vote, we might also see Ring voters defect if there is a sense that Arete Generation wont cover the expenditure of investing 9 Arete into Ruling Ring components.

You might want to consider consolidating around Avenger to ensure that the defectors all end up in the same place. Ring could still win even with defections if anti-Preeminence voters can't manage to coordinate.
 
Avenger is currently within striking distance of the greedy Preeminence build. As things get closer to the close of the vote, we might also see Ring voters defect if there is a sense that Arete Generation wont cover the expenditure of investing 9 Arete into Ruling Ring components.

You might want to consider consolidating around Avenger to ensure that the defectors all end up in the same place. Ring could still win even with defections if anti-Preeminence voters can't manage to coordinate.
I have no desire of having Avenger win, thank you very much.
 
Avenger is currently within striking distance of the greedy Preeminence build. As things get closer to the close of the vote, we might also see Ring voters defect if there is a sense that Arete Generation wont cover the expenditure of investing 9 Arete into Ruling Ring components.

You might want to consider consolidating around Avenger to ensure that the defectors all end up in the same place. Ring could still win even with defections if anti-Preeminence voters can't manage to coordinate.

Avenger is super situational though, while Headsman is always good if we can fix the bladewind issue (and I'm absolutely certain we can get a Sword Praxis version of sword-at-range, which may even be better then the current bladewinds).

As much as I dislike Full Passion, Avenger does have significant drawbacks that have to be kept in mind.
 
On discord we've been discussing if a Preeminence + Quickening (instead of hateful might) build is viable.

Hateful Might bypasses Con, but requires we get in a hit with the smallest agi boost (just ++). Switching it to quickening finishing the job will be harder because no hateful might, but ++++ agi should be enough to aid us considerably.
 
I do want to say I kind of hate seeing this crop up on literally every build choice. I want to hope it's tongue in cheek, but their are a lot of posters here who have made actual serious arguments that their the only ones who are capable of rational decision making and literally everyone who disagrees with them is a lemming who is incapable of a coherent argument and it just gets tiring after a while.
It is tongue in cheek. Mostly poking fun at the thread participants to sometimes tunnel vision on their preferred option and just don`t care about anything else. Sometimes people get way too emotionally invested in a decision which is rather bad for their mental health.

I know it has been said, but I will say again - if you ever feel that other choices are attack on your person, take a step back and decompress. After all, this is just a game, losing sleep or nerves on it is silly.

@Zampano @Sara I will be off for the night. If you wish to invoke your markers, please do it now.
 
I feel there's a bit of flanderization of Hateful going on here, there's more than five potential builds here, the five that rihaku called out were curated as being good. Calling it garbage being picked by people with no regard for risk just because out of the five it's not the absolute best for this exact situation seems a bit narrowminded.

Moral concerns seem rather ridiculous as well considering we've been happily applying ruin to people beforehand, while also Cutting their spirit to ribbons without a qualm.
 
On discord we've been discussing if a Preeminence + Quickening (instead of hateful might) build is viable.

Hateful Might bypasses Con, but requires we get in a hit with the smallest agi boost (just ++). Switching it to quickening finishing the job will be harder because no hateful might, but ++++ agi should be enough to aid us considerably.
Preeminence bonus don't stack with Chief Dominion though?
 
Another reaction for the Arete Pile. Reaction finished circa A Farewell to Arms. 1161 Words.

I have a feeling the intended connotations here aren't quite what's going through my head at the moment. A mix of Rules of Nature, Alexander Anderson's speech about wanting to be a natural disaster before he stabs himself with the Nail of Helena to turn into a thorn monster, and old musings on being an avatar of purpose vs a human being before I had myself threadbanned from Puella Magi Adfligo Systema for mental health reasons.

They convened at an Elementalist training grounds the next day, Letrizia alongside her ostensible classmates and Hunger with Gisena. The grounds themselves were no more than a rectangle of densely packed dirt, but there was an almost celebratory air to the proceedings - the high schoolers gawked at the two of them, turning to bombard Letrizia with questions, while Gisena set up a one-person cheer section.
Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! Fight! And of course no anime fight scene is complete without the exposition dispenser and cheering section.

Letrizia temporized, deflecting the interrogation with a mysterious flip of her hair
We should become a metalhead as an excuse to get long hair so we can get hairflips fabulous enough to become cognitohazards. Then we should star in a L'Oreal commercial and have weird music videos made about our name. Then we should learn to time travel.


then began to explain the rules of engagement. There would be one warm-up and one serious match per challenger. At stake was, on part of Hunger, both a considerable sum of money and a substantial amount of time; on the part of the students, a massively smaller sum.
Fair enough given the power disparity involved.

All involved understood that the main objective was to familiarize Hunger and Letrizia with their Elements; to facilitate this, a bonus payment would be made at the end, amount depending on Hunger and Letrizia's own assessments as to how they performed. Letrizia had assured the children that Hunger would score them generously.
Yeah they are definitely trying to do well by them.


"Alright, guess I'm up first! Nice to meetya, mister! Heard you killed a lot of Rotspawn yesterday." The first contender was a loud-mouthed redhead by the name of Aobaru, whose Element of Vigorflame could increase the strength of an person or object up to a set point, after which it caused them to explode. He was notable for his iron control over the Element, capable of inducing explosions seemingly without the intermediate step of strengthening his foes.
So he's like a weird mix of Shirou with his reinforcement power, and Yoshikage Kira with Killer Queen I guess? Maybe throw a little bit of Bakugo in there too?


Hunger carefully set aside the Forebear's Blade and walked to the center of their makeshift arena. Aobaru offered him a fist bump which he neglected to return, but gave the boy a nod of acknowledgement.
Must be nervous doing this with somebody so out of his weight class even if it is a friendly sparring/education match. Too much stats to be able to confidently fistbump somebody without physical augmentations safely?

"Er... okay! Well, you've got a buffing-type Element like me, right? I've got some tips and tricks I could show ya."
Definitely nervous.


"That's right."


"Hm... okay, so if yours is anything like mine, it helps anyone that touches it, which is the main problem. You've got enemies in melee that would love to steal your buffs and equalize."


"Exactly."
How much of the man of few wordsness going on here is brain damage and how much is just Hunger being Hunger?


"I've got a couple ways around that... but telling you would be boring. Best if I just show ya."


Hunger smirked. "Be my guest."
Wouldn't be an anime fight scene if it wasn't.


They retreated to opposite sides of the arena, and the first spar began. Aobaru immediately launched a pillar of Vigorflame at the ground, which bounced up and struck his body: the quantity of Element summoned was no less, but by focusing it into a vertical emission, enemies outside touch range would fail to benefit. Clever.


Hunger immediately tried the same, even as Aobaru rushed him. The boy was a surprisingly capable warrior but no match for Hunger's speed. He dodged the child's strikes, blasts, and grapple attempts easily as he tried to figure out how to make the pillar technique work. His first attempt had merely sent Edeldross into the ground, hurling himself skyward. Subsequent attempts spilled out into an explosive dome, nothing like the precisely controlled column of energy that Aobaru had manifested.
Evidently we have more training to do from a control standpoint. That or it's just a quirk of our element. I don't know.

He frowned. Perhaps the warm-up spars were a mistake. The stakes were so low his Ring was unsatisfied. No power to be gained from such conflicts.
If one of the metaphorical hemispheres of our brain(The Ring) is a complete battle junkie/blood knight, looks like we're going to have to go weaker.

He fell to a hundredth of his normal speed and finally the boy caught up. They briefly exchanged blows and Hunger allowed the boy to prevail, hopeful it would entice more tricks out of him when they fought the second time.
Good sportsmanship on Lord Hunger's part.

"Well done. I concede."


The boy looked shocked for a moment before an overjoyed expression came across his features. "Holy shit, I won! I beat the Reckoner!"


"The Reckoner?"


"Yeah, the Reckoner of Rotspawn! It's what we've been calling you, Lord Hunger."
My first thought was the evil supers from Brandon Sanderson's Reckoners, which given the edgelordiness of Lord Hunger, isn't too far off I guess?


With mental reflexes capable of tracing a bullet in mid-flight, Hunger stopped himself from cringing. This... was a good thing. Notoriety could only improve his Astral Rank when he accomplished substantial feats, though he suspected his fight against the lesser Rotspawn did not qualify. "I see. An interesting name."
This is why we should have taken Seven Seals/Twice Great. This and [REDACTED] things.

"Wo-hoo! Go Lord Reckoner!" Gisena called from the sidelines.
From somewhere she'd produced white cloths that she and Letrizia had tied as headbands. His name was written on them in bold red ink. "Good match, have a drink?"
I wonder how much exposition Letrezia's been giving people on the sidelines about us?


He rolled his eyes and took the proffered water. "It was a tough match, but I'm confident I can come back in the second round."
Not sure if you're being serious or sarcastic here given your need to handicap yourself.

Aobaru was walking boastfully among his compatriots, fielding them questions with indifferent aplomb. "No big deal, I'm sure he was holding back like, massively..."
Yep!

"Why'd you throw the match?" Letrizia pouted. "I had good money riding on you, Lord Reckoner!"
Stop calling me Lord, I am nowhere near ready enough to deal with that Letrezia as I keep telling you.

"Oh yeah? Is it for the warm-up or the fight itself?'


"Both!" She grumbled.


"I see. Then, if you don't want to lose the rest, I suggest you drop both parts of that title when addressing me in the future."
You tell her Lord Hunger!

"H-hmph! Whatever you want. 'S not like I think it's cool or anything..."
God Letrezia really is fond of edgelord cringe shenanigans. I wonder if she has any Evanescence knockoff albums on her hard drive?


"Good." He smiled, took another sip of water and returned to the field.


Before Aobaru returned, Hunger spent a long moment in contemplation. The Ring would disqualify any contest that was insufficiently challenging or lacked real stakes. In that event, he couldn't use his full power, or even one-tenth: the greater his chance of actually losing, the more quickly he would learn.
God, the ring really does incentivize suicidal behavior. Frak.

One-fiftieth power ought to give him an edge while still retaining that essential element of risk. If he miscalibrated, so be it. Even this method would likely fail if he repeated it too many times against a given opponent. Luckily there was quite a variety here.
I guess this makes Lord Hunger the All Might expy having a heavily handicapped exhibition match against students? Deku's usage of One For All/All Might's quirk needed to be measured by the percentage of power that he was using due to full power breaking his bones.

Aobaru walked back from the stands, his cocksure swagger replaced by serious determination. "Alright, let's do this. I've got a month's worth of part-time wages on the line, so don't expect me to go as easy as I did previous."
*You Say Run starts playing*

Hunger nodded, taking a low stance. As Letrizia's arm fell to indicate the match's beginning, Hunger immediately sprang forwards, catching his foe in a grapple before he could fire anything. He then emitted a thunderous blast of edeldross, saturating them both; with his speed and strength much the superior of his enemy's, the absolute difference in parameters merely grew. If Aobaru attempted to summon any of his own Element, Hunger could defeat him with a submission lock fairly trivially.
*Record scratch sound effect*


His Ring flared slightly, a steady trickle of power which he fed into his mantle, willing it to increase his proficiency with Edeldross.
Oh well. Not particularly climactic but we got good results out of it.

Before Aobaru could tap out, Hunger released him and withdrew to the edge of the arena. That had worked well, but it was a tactic to be kept in pocket against a physically inferior opponent. For general use he needed to master the pillar technique.
Looks like we've got some Edeldross training to do in the future I guess.


"That... was fast..." Aobaru said shakily. "Hm, guess you could beat me at any time, so my only chance is to get a great bonus. Alright, well, I think I see the problem in your technique."


"Oh?" Hunger waited patiently.


"Yeah. Looks like you have a force-based Element. Usually those can be solidified into a semi-inert state. While inert, they'll lose most of their unique properties and act as a generic solid. What you really want to do is form a lip of solidified Element at the bottom and sides of your blast. That way it'll bounce off the earth and hit you instead of seeping in or spreading everywhere. Why don't you give it a shot?"
Or not I guess? Let's see how this plays out.

"This isn't fair, you're getting all the instruction bonuses yourself!" Another boy heckled from the sidelines.


Aobaru made what appeared to be a rude gesture in response.
More anime cliches!


"I learn best under pressure. Take me out while I'm attempting it."


"Are you sure? I mean, that's-"


"Yes, and don't hold back. Otherwise it won't work as well."
They must think Lord Hunger is an absolute lunatic at this point. An awesome lunatic though.

Aobaru leapt forward, streams of fire launching him at radically higher speed. Hunger barely ducked out of the way, forming a frantic shield of edeldross that deflected the boy. Ah. The solidified edeldross that he used to make shields. That was what the kid was talking about. If he produced a thin amount to contain the pure Edeldross, the "pillar" technique was much simpler.


He fired downwards again and was gratified to feel a nearly-vertical column of his Element surrounding him.
Technique unlocked: Edeldross Pillar.


"You've got it. Sheesh, that was fast," Aobaru panted, 'spent' after going all-out. Hunger raised an eyebrow. The kid was a good actor, but had a whiles to go before he could fool Hunger.
He didn't really feel like going all out it seems for safety reasons?

"Alright, the next level is density control. The pillar technique's good if you want to fire off a blast to buff one of your companions, but for solo buffing you really need to master density. Almost all buffing Elements have greater effects at higher density, so if you can compress an orb of it and hold it in your chest, you should see some noticeably improved effects. The boost will be strongest wherever you hold the orb, but should radiate out to the rest of your body."
What happens if you get the element dense enough it starts emitting its own gravitational pull? Hrm... could this be the asymptote for the intelligence explosion? The metaphysical limit to how tightly the element can be packed?

"How do I compress it in the first place?" He frowned.


"Well, the best way is to just summon it compressed. Takes a few tries but that's the safest to avoid enemy-buffing. You have to summon lots of Element at one time, right?" He called forth a torrent of flame. "But there's nothing saying you can't summon a lot of Element in one space, as long as your fundamental control's good enough."
Looks like we've got the first stage of the Philosopher's Wreath singularity, finding out just how dense an orb of Edeldross can get.

Aobaru gestured with his open palm, summoned an orb of searing brilliance. "Like this!"


He swiftly launched the orb at Hunger, following up with a spirited charge. Hunger ducked the orb but felt a line of boils form along the exposed side, the flesh bubbling up as if on the verge of eruption. Terrifying.
Demonstrating with a visual aid/following along with Hungers advice about learning under pressure eh?

He attempted to do as his opponent had done, summoning an orb of concentrated edeldross. Though his sphere was much larger than his enemy's palm-sized orb, still it ended up considerably smaller than the tank-sized blasts he normally produced. Tucking it into his body, it melted seamlessly into his chest; a steady, glowing warmth that vivified and exalted every fiber of his being.
Lord Hunger is probably feeling like a farking Stradivarius violin right now I bet.


Firing wide columns of Edeldross to deflect his opponent's attacks, Hunger charged in again, only to be forced back as Aobaru finally stopped holding back. The boy produced a broad, deep wall of livid fire, crackling golden tongues stretching full to sky. Aobaru emerged from the wall similarly coated in flame, a set of densely focused orbs whirling about his head. One by one they flew at Hunger, who was forced to endure two blows to the leg and one to the torso, flesh rupturing raggedly as it exploded.
No need for record scratches here we have gone full Anime.

Shocked at the gruesome display, Aobaru faltered a moment, and Hunger sent him to earth with a quick chop to the back of the neck. He placed his palm gently but menacingly upon the boy's head. "Do you yield?"


"Uh, yeah, I yield. Holy crap that was hardcore. Do you just like, not feel pain?"
That wouldn't be tactically optimal. Humans evolved the ability for a reason after all.


With the spar over, his other magics were unsealed. Hunger quickly repaired his wounds. "I do, but you learn to ignore that in combat. Perhaps my sense of pain has dulled over time."
You've also got the ring boosting your regeneration to reduce the urgency of painful sensations. At least it's helping you survive the crazy shit it encourages you to get into.

"Jeez. As expected of the Reckoner, I guess. You're pretty cool for an old guy!"


"..."
Pretty... Cool *Does an impersonation of Revolver Ocelot from Snake Eater after Big Boss tells him he's pretty good*


Aobaru got up. "Anyway, there's one stage of enhancement beyond even density, but I haven't mastered it yet. We call it suffusion. You create a highly-dense construct of your Element in the exact shape of your body, and move it exactly as your body moves. That gives the heaviest augmentation of all, even better than just saturating yourself with a pillar of highly-dense Element, but it's really hard and requires continuous maintenance. The orb method is a lot stabler."
So we've got the second stage of the Philosopher's Wreath singularity here. Being able to reliably use suffusion. I wonder if there would be a third or if mastering suffision is the intelligence explosion's asymptote?

Interesting. He wondered why that was. Intuitively, a 'highly-dense pillar' ought to offer the greatest exposure possible to one's Element. Perhaps it was psychokinetic in nature, some aspect of the concentration itself focusing the Element's effect? "Good to know. Thanks."
I guess this is a question for another training session. Or whenever we get Philosopher's Wreath.

"Hey, don't thank me. Just pay me well! I gotta make up for this lost lunch money." Aobaru grinned cheekily and handed over a pitiful sum.


"YEAH!!" Letrizia cheered wildly. She fired off a column of Pressure into the air. "I'm the best! I love gambling!!"
Let's hope you forget this interest soon Letrezia before you bankrupt yourself.

After that came a succession of considerably less impressive 'High' Elementalists
I wonder if any of those High Elementalists were actually high as in stoned?


, though Hunger's self-imposed restrictions nearly caught him out from time to time.
Just part of doing business with that farking ring.

Nonetheless by the end of the day he had gained an impressive competence in Edeldross manipulation without having lost a single (real) bout. Happily he paid out the students' bonuses, and was just about to leave when one final student arrived at the grounds.
Alls well that ends well I suppose, the Edeldross training was totally worth it for the uttermost mitigation.

She was a girl of about Letrizia's age, pretty and slender but not as tall as the Armament pilot, with eyes of dark violet in a similarly dark outfit. In her left hand she carried a slightly curved sword in a scabbard of polished wood. Her dark hair was drawn up in a ponytail spill of ink, stark contrast to her unhealthily pale skin. Her stance was light, alert; a fighter of professional skill, despite her nervous demeanor.
There's a lot of shades of purple in this party it seems.

"Hope... I am not... too late," the girl said shakily, as Letrizia came over to greet the newcomer.
And here we have the anime cliche of the late arrival.

"Aeira!" Letrizia said happily. "I didn't think you'd be able to make it. Did your parents give you permission?"


"Ah, yes." Aeira replied. "It took much of the night, and today as well, but they have finally agreed to allow me to become a mercenary!"
The person we can recruit with very little concern about moral dubiousness whatsoever. Though we of course, shouldn't let her deal with anything out of her conceivable weight class. We should also get her under the aegis of Philospher's Wreath at the earliest possible opportunity like the rest of the party.

She bowed deeply to Hunger, and then to Gisena. "Lord Hunger and Lady Allria, please permit me to travel alongside you! Letrizia has informed me of your mission and I would bring much in the way of novel capabilities. My Element, Shadowcord, dims light and deflects attention, allowing me to cloak you from detection even against automated systems. I am also a capable fighter with the sword, and can defeat most Sovereignty Armors in direct combat."
So she's a stealth combatant with an astral rank in the 4's I guess? Then of course we've got the business with how we nerfed her stealth power to buff her progression/combat skills and get us a stage 1 cure for our liver injury. I suppose that was foresighted given the utter failure of our ability to talk to Avecarn.


"Fascinating," Gisena remarked. "The information-theoretic implications of that attention-deflecting ability..."
Was Gisena always aware of information theory or did she just find a textbook on it when she reached the Elixir Sovereignty?


"Aeira's really strong!" Letrizia gushed. "Maybe not as powerful as you, Hunger, but we could really use her stealth capabilities
Apparently we needed a liver cure and wanted to buff her progression more.

, and we've got plenty of money left over to pay her! Her family could really use it, and she can definitely take care of herself!"
Let's hope so, we will never forgive ourselves otherwise I bet.


The winners were [X] Ring of Power: Crimson Flare and [X] High Marshall.


[ ] Fine - She can guard Letrizia while you're away, and the outrageous output of every experienced Elementalist means she can even cloak Verschlengorge from detection. Perhaps it'll even work on Astral Beasts? If necessary, she may also be able to take the field against some weaker foes, or support Hunger from a distance with supplemental stealth. [7 Currency units / month]
That was totally worth it to freshen up the party dynamic and whatever we get of precious metals from Larissa helps us pay her.

[ ] Unacceptable - Proficient as she might be, it's nowhere near safe for her to adventure with the likes of you. Hunger is a Progression-type Cursebearer, Gisena is a (soon to be) High Sorceress with an extremely powerful and broad anti-supernatural defense, and Letrizia is a superweapon pilot. There's no room for an ordinary High Elementalist among your ranks, no matter how talented. [+.8 Arete, +1 pick to upcoming Experience]
Things would have been a lot more mysterious if we hadn't brought her along to filch that pamphlet for us.


As you will likely be facing the High Marshall soon, you may wish to pre-buy Stances, ensuring availability for the entire encounter. He outranks you significantly and has a powerful Soul Evocation. An abundance of caution would not be remiss here; Rank gaps of such size are dangerous to contest directly.


Tactics can also help, of course, but his Rank makes him difficult to deceive. You have 18.7 Arete with 1 put towards Crimson Flare.


[ ] Maximum Safety - Buy Hero-Defeating Stance and Guile-Defeating Stance (below).

*Combines high Charisma with a Rank nullification effect, vastly reducing the effectiveness of his greater Rank upon yours. Safest social option.

*Hero-Defeating Stance feeds into Foe-Defeating Stance, whereas Guile-Defeating Stance feeds into All-Defeating Stance. Not very synergistic in the long run.

*Expensive, but minimizes death %.


[ ] Somewhat Safe - Buy Guile-Defeating Stance and World-Defeating Stance (below)

*Both feed into All-Defeating Stance, so this is considerably more efficient than the above at the cost of reduced safety.

*You can only have two Stances active, so it won't make sense to buy Magic-Defeating Stance with this arrangement until you can afford All-Defeating Stance or have 6 Rank...

*Still expensive.


[ ] Kinda Safe - Buy Hero-Defeating Stance.

*It's not really that safe, but way better than Maximal Greed.

*Hero-Defeating Stance is almost always pretty good.


[ ] Maximal Greed - Don't buy anything.

*You will probably get rekt. He's 2.2 Ranks higher than you, literally everything you do will experience massive pushback from the universe itself.

*However, getting rekt does not mean you will necessarily die. You might still be able to retreat and limp away.
In the end we only got Guile Defeating stance an update or two later or something. A pity. World Defeating stance might have been great right now. It would have let us take the Aristesia route in good conscience because we could have modified the Calendar Engine.

Guile-Defeating Stance - 7 Arete


A martial stance of the Forebear. Where comes the craven, who by shadowy pacts, scheming and circumstance seeks to undermine the wielder's unquestionable authority, they will find that age and treachery have already usurped that domain, and were lying in wait all the while. There can be no power behind the throne but he that sits the throne itself, if that sovereign is wise enough to adopt this stance of the Forebear. A pre-requisite for All-Defeating Stance.


++Wits, ++Wisdom, ++Charisma.


+2 Rank, ++++++++Manipulation for purposes of detecting, subverting, and overcoming hidden schemes, illusions, and deceptions. Apply the Power of Ruin against such efforts if hostile to the wielder. Be it a rapier feint or the meticulously calculated plot of eons, all forms of mistruth are laid bare before the Forebear's gaze.
So we're rank 7 for anti-scheming purposes right now. That's cool I guess. Also we finally have some wisdom. Now if only we weren't at a 15 percent mental debuff.



World-Defeating Stance - 7 Arete


A martial stance of the Forebear. Forces natural and premeditated; forces unnatural and obscene - it matters not to the cause of the Forebear, whose march is steady and inevitable, carrying all before it. A billion realms brought to heel and countless more razed to ash, systems of the world in kaleidoscopic arrangement and all bent to his will. Meaningless as escape may be, more futile still is dissent: an enemy is just a future subject, and though they may forget the face of their fathers, the Forebear's visage is burned indelibly into their spirits.


If the user possesses all of the other [Type]-Defeating Stances, upgrades into All-Defeating Stance.


+.2 Rank, ++Luck, ++Intelligence, ++Protection


++++++Protection further against environmental harms, including from incompatible or hostile physics and metaphysics.

*Shelters wielder's powers from suppression or negation, even that resulting from a lack of magic or magical structures within the world.

*5x Power of Ruin against non-supernatural foes or phenomena beyond an human's ability to defeat.
This is the bugbear I've been pushing recently, first for Aristesia and the Calendar Engine, and then as prep work for fighting Sten at full power.
 
Hateful Might stacks with our bladewinds! We can kite, and do both mental damage and blood damage! Kill god, make him go insane!
 
Inner Ring and something inspired by [Winter Moon]!

Looks great!

Praxis is an exceptional damage multiplier and allows us to ignore most defenses, but if you seriously think reaching 100 Strenght for our attack with the blade won't give us an even more overwhelming offense. Especially because Ruin scaling with Strenght plus our increase in parrying speed synergizes wonderfully with Weapon Defeating Stance, allowing to punish any physical attack to a scary degree.

Indeed, plus consider the synergy with All-Defeating Stance, still only 14 Arete away! It's by far the likeliest EFB-equivalent you'll pick up after Trinity for most builds.

Blade projections are nothing more than distractions for most of the challenging enemies we are going to face because most of that sort has shown the ability to mostly ignore them so far even weakened. Rotspawn did it. Avelcarn did it. And Sten did it. They don't seem to scale well at all from what I can see. And, our enemies are only going to get stronger from now on, in both sheer durability and other sort of defenses.

Mm, Blade Projections actually significantly damaged both the Prime Rotspawn and Evangeline, hence why they were forced to deflect them! Remember, a single Blade Projection slipped through her guard and badly wounded her lower torso.
 
@BrainInAJar
@Conjured Blade

I thought that the terms of Brain in a Jar's signature were that the first person to invoke a token would be the one to receive Brain's vote for that update. Other voters couldn't spend their markers if someone else had already used one. There was not any mention of a bidding war using Brain's markers!

I certainly don't think that Brain should be able to get rid of multiple markers per vote just by instigating bidding wars among his creditors. No matter what the outcome, Brain should end this vote with a payment on his debt of at most one vote token.

Seems like you two (Conjured blade & Brain) should propose an offer to me to convince me to spend Brain's Cote differently. Using the first-come-first-served rule, either Brain or Conjured Blade needs to buy my currently activated Brain token. To speed up the process: I'll accept either three Brain tokens or one Conjured Blade token.
I apologize then. Since I'm just returning to my computer and the vote is mostly done anyway, I'll just vote for you without spending your marker.
[X]Zampano
 
[X] The Ring of Power - Avenger
[X] Age


Changing back to Avenger since stats without HDS is too risky apparently and I don't want to be locked out of King Stands Alone by taking HDS. Hateful Malice is a bit too greedy since we still have a fairly high death chance if Sten can get his hands on us with it.
 
Perhaps this will put it in perspective:

Remember, if we had chosen Sten last pick we would have been crippled, at best with how we rolled.

Has their ever actually been a serious fight where we didn't get crippled ever since we got these healing powers?

I am very, very tired of taking stupid risks when we have another option right in front of us. It is getting ridiculous.

We've paid far higher opportunity costs than 7 arete and 3 picks by making risky decisions before.

R'Today at 1:02 PM
have at least a 70% chance of victory without devastating complication

I'll just put this here and say that I find this a acceptable risk for a build that I think is superior long term, I find more interesting mechanics wise, and whom the Thematics of the ring finally drawing upon his dominion of passion to free it's sibling from years of torment in it's hour of need really appeals to me.

I understand if you don't, that's fair, but given this is one of the viable builds it's not the probable death suicide option many other voters have been making it out to be, and if these percentages help people make their choice I'd be glad. Whatever wins, i'll be pretty happy.
 
If you wish to invoke your markers, please do it now.
Thanks for checking in; I will NOT be using your marker today. Sleep well :)
Avenger is super situational though, while Headsman is always good if we can fix the bladewind issue (and I'm absolutely certain we can get a Sword Praxis version of sword-at-range, which may even be better then the current bladewinds).

As much as I dislike Full Passion, Avenger does have significant drawbacks that have to be kept in mind.
My point was about which vote is more likely to thwart Hateful Might; I myself slightly prefer Headsman to Avenger. However, the voting bloc simply isn't there (yet) for Headsman.
I have no desire of having Avenger win, thank you very much.
Roger that. I hope Headsman picks up momentum so I can vote alongside you. I'm most interested in either Headsman/Avenger winning. I'll go to whichever one is ahead.

If you'd like to buy my vote for Headsman, I've effectively got 2 votes this turn because of calling in a marker from Brain (I suspect you're not in the market for vote swaps tho)
 
R'Today at 1:02 PM
have at least a 70% chance of victory without devastating complication

I'll just put this here and say that I find this a acceptable risk for a build that I think is superior long term, I find more interesting mechanics wise, and whom the Thematics of the ring finally drawing upon his dominion of passion to free it's sibling from years of torment in it's hour of need really appeals to me.

I understand if you don't, that's fair, but given this is one of the viable builds it's not the probable death suicide option many other voters have been making it out to be, and if these percentages help people make their choice I'd be glad. Whatever wins, i'll be pretty happy.
My issue with the build is it spends 9 Arete banking for the Ruling Ring when picking up other power type advancements is better in my opinion because we can weather challenges better that way and save up for the Evening Sky EFB that people want for the special advancement.
 
I apologize then. Since I'm just returning to my computer and the vote is mostly done anyway, I'll just vote for you without spending your marker.
Thanks. I wasn't all that upset, but the details of the system used for when competing debts are called in the same vote seemed like an important precedent to set. I am happy to do a secondary market in Brain vote-markers but the price to override a marker activation shouldn't be just 1 new unit of debt imo.

Edit: I'd also have been OK if you just veto'd my marker, leaving me with a marker that you can not veto in future votes.
 
Has their ever actually been a serious fight where we didn't get crippled ever since we got these healing powers?



R'Today at 1:02 PM
have at least a 70% chance of victory without devastating complication

I'll just put this here and say that I find this a acceptable risk for a build that I think is superior long term, I find more interesting mechanics wise, and whom the Thematics of the ring finally drawing upon his dominion of passion to free it's sibling from years of torment in it's hour of need really appeals to me.

I understand if you don't, that's fair, but given this is one of the viable builds it's not the probable death suicide option many other voters have been making it out to be, and if these percentages help people make their choice I'd be glad. Whatever wins, i'll be pretty happy.



The 30% chance of bad things with the preeminence build comes with a fairly high chance of straight up dying.

SaraToday at 1:14 PM
R'Today at 1:03 PM lethality% might still be somewhat high for the weakest builds

I'll also put this discord quote up here as well and have ppl decide what somewhat high means for themselves and whether thats worth it.
 
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