OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Given the extent of our injuries, Forment Rebellion + Ennobling may literally be the optimal course. That or Forment Rebellion with Dominion War+Passion or Dominion(Passion)+Fierce Quickening.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Pindorama
We don't get to apply Passion for our Rebellion; only War. 0.375 is better than War's 0.25 anyway. It is true that Rank is less penalized than social, so we should consider it more valuable; another benefit of grabbing Rank now.
Fomenting Rebellion will be more successful the more we find of the right sorts of malcontents in a limited time. Meeting what you want when you you look is something Rank helps with but people strong enough to be useful in this society will have decent defensive Rank which might steer them away from Hunger - who is dangerous and going to bring trouble - unless he has more Rank. Likewise Rank makes a difference in swaying the reluctant as we've just seen. For us more Rank also means better resilience, healing and buffing of allies and offensive power over most* of our enemies. Shameless gets us a useful amount of Rank.
We do need more Might to get more Ruin to put down the most dangerous foes fast but the Fomenting Rebellion option doesn't send us at them straight off.
*So far we've seen a society of living humans without much automation where the combat power comes from extra badass living humans.
We do need more Might to get more Ruin to put down the most dangerous foes fast but the Fomenting Rebellion option doesn't send us at them straight off.
*So far we've seen a society of living humans without much automation where the combat power comes from extra badass living humans.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Feat: Shameless
[X] Feat: Shameless
- Location
- Italy
Y're all focusing on survivability and yes, sure, not dying matters for obvious reasons. But there's a reason Hunger believes that Cutting Through right now is viable, the temple forces are in serious disarray and operating at a fraction of their actual power. If we manage to make the push in a way that turns attrition into an advantage for us (and Rain will allow us exactly that) we'll have a very real shot at this. And if we get too much of an opposition? Of course we're gonna get screwed, that's exactly why we're trying to minimize it by acting immediately and capitalizing on the advantage offered.
By starting a rebellion we have as little of an hope as possible to manage any kind of force capable of standing up against the Temple. We'll have to rely mainly on Gisena and Aeira and god help us if we decide it's too dangerous for them and try to solo things anyway just after rejecting what was precisely a quick and clean (if risky) solo option. And if we wait too much? Apocrypha will ruin our lives, you can count on that, it's exactly what it does and we are in a situation perfectly suited for it.
Let's at least get us Rank in that case so we have an higher chance of earning something out of the time we're losing. Vigor is mainly a selfish buff to Hunger with a low increase in charisma, there are situation where it can be useful but we could get so much more out of Shameless right now.
By starting a rebellion we have as little of an hope as possible to manage any kind of force capable of standing up against the Temple. We'll have to rely mainly on Gisena and Aeira and god help us if we decide it's too dangerous for them and try to solo things anyway just after rejecting what was precisely a quick and clean (if risky) solo option. And if we wait too much? Apocrypha will ruin our lives, you can count on that, it's exactly what it does and we are in a situation perfectly suited for it.
Let's at least get us Rank in that case so we have an higher chance of earning something out of the time we're losing. Vigor is mainly a selfish buff to Hunger with a low increase in charisma, there are situation where it can be useful but we could get so much more out of Shameless right now.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
*Indecisiveness*
[x]Cut
[x]Feat: Shameless
[x]Dominion - War
[x]Cut
[x]Feat: Shameless
[x]Dominion - War
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I like RANK build but what are we going to do if we face undead enemies? At this point with Rihaku warning and Star forge update. I am nearly convinced we are going to face those and RANK doesn't help much against those at all.
Protection on the other hand will at least make us massively more durable, enough that we can probably just tank there shit and Cut through.
Protection on the other hand will at least make us massively more durable, enough that we can probably just tank there shit and Cut through.
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- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
[X] Foment Rebellion
[X] Vigor Incarnate
[X] Vigor Incarnate
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
More Indecisiveness
[x]Cut
[x]Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come. (3 picks)
[x]Cut
[x]Forebear's Blade - What Rains May Come. (3 picks)
- Location
- Italy
This won't exactly be what many like to hear but, we don't have to worry about that now so we can always reserve that pick for later.
It's not like we're gonna end up fighting a godsdamned lich next update already (now watch as Rihaku proves me wrong
)!Edit: This is precisely an observation of the Rank build alongside Foment Rebellion. I don't really think picking Shameless would be worth if we're going to be Cutting stuff up.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Realization. While we have the wound we got against Avecarn, What Rains May Come doesn't reverse our punctured soul penalty because we got it from overexerting ourselves. We still get respectable protection boost out of Vigor Incarnate and Dominion War brings us to Rank 5 in practice during conflicts with serious stakes. So I'm back where I started.
[X]Cut
[X]Vigor Incarnate
[X]The Ring of Power - Dominion: War
[X]Cut
[X]Vigor Incarnate
[X]The Ring of Power - Dominion: War
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Or just SAVE and get Shameless with MDS or HDS.
Plus Shameless is a Feat, so it has a influence on our character. Imagine all the wacky slapstick that will come to be if we pick it..
- Location
- Italy
You seem to have thought things through and, if you aren't going to switch to another vote in five minutes or so, I think I'll trust you on this combination of survivability boost and Rank bonus.
Just, I'm gonna wait five minutes first to make sure since I think you've cast every vote imaginable in the last ten.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Yes, but we've also gained power much faster than it does. The Apocryphal Curse can only do so much.
Also, remember that we tend to level up HARD from beating strong opponents- remember how rapidly we outscaled the Outer Temple knights, for example.
Vigor gives a tremendous boost to Protection that makes it more likely that he'll survive nasty hits; under present circumstances I suspect it's competitive with the +Rank option even in a straight combat situation.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Dug up the stances from the Ritual Grounds post to see if this effects discussion/yields any new insights.
- Location
- Italy
I guess a reason to vote for Reform would also be to give Hunger more farming time then. Can't find much fault in that, even if I feel that even by cutting through it won't end in just one update and we would still get opportunities for getting Arete and (maybe) picks.
Yes, but it does still cost more Arete and helps us far less in any other kind of situation. And considering that combat would be (at least in the immediate term) only a secondary concern if we want to start a rebellion right here and now, I think Shameless is better if we want to go that route.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Now I want to throw MDS a bone and not spend 4 Arete at least this round.
[x]Cut
[x]Vigor Incarnate
[x]Fierce Quickening
[x]Cut
[x]Vigor Incarnate
[x]Fierce Quickening
MDS makes you very resistant to Soul Evocation effects(and Immortals are specifically chosen for having powerful Soul Evocation) while HDS gives you scaling 0.2 Rank(so it scales with Crimson), some stats and relevant effects of halving Rank/number bonuses*. They are both very relevant to this choice.
*I wonder how it works with scaling Rank. Say that we are rank 5.3, our enemy is rank 6.3 and we try to use Blood Magic on him with Rank 7.3. Does he resist us with his normal Rank(6.3) or does his Rank gets reduced to 5.7 because we are still lower actual Rank despite affecting him with higher effective Rank effect?
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
Eh, we are going to be attacking with rebellion as well (it's quite possible we will face some isolated strong opposition since the plan is to show how overwhelming we are) and it comes with charisma increase. It's plenty useful and synergistic with Rebellion option.
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- Location
- a place
Also, I don't buy that we have zero chance at finding useful allies for our rebellion. Even if their's literally no one useful in combat in the temple which I don't think is as set in stone some people believe given the rebellion option listed Hunger thinking he saw exploitable faultlines in the temple society, we know their's a nearby encampment of adventurers we can recruit from that have a lot of experience raiding the Temple and atleast some of whom are fairly hardcore such a Fairchild.
I actually agree with you about Vigor possibly leaving Hunger a better combatant himself, but I do have a arguement for Shameless even despite that. Aside from Rank helping us find exploitable opportunities, one of the benefits of higher Rank is that it makes our Blood buff and debuffs better. I know I sound like a broken record with this, but the more combatants on the field with blood on either side the more relevant that becomes, as it acts as a force multiplier for our side. That might end up being more decisive in a rebellion scenario then just being tankier ourselves, and the extra rank will still go a ways into making us tankier so it's not like we'd be completely forgoing that.
Rebellion also likely gives us a chance to farm Arete and get Vigor later, whereas getting chances to pick feats is actually pretty rare.
Edit: The Charisma option will help with motivating people, but given Gisena will still be a better socialize then us even with it it might not be as relevant as it usually would.
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