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A Simple Transaction I

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Something Gisena pointed out in the last update is that when you have vastly superior mental stats, charisma, and appearance compared to another person, they tend to become tongue-tied and abject around you.

If we pick Renaissance Woman, and there are DAMN good reasons to do so... We're gonna have to start taking Evening Sky upgrades to boost Hunger's mental stats and charisma. Not only for their own sake, but just so that looking in Gisena's general direction doesn't cause Hunger to either:

1) Get anime swirly eyes,
2) Get anime nosebleed,
3) Worst yet, not be able to find snappy comebacks to all that banter.

I have no problem with Gisena outpacing us in the banter arms race, because Renaissance Woman is the equivalent of inventing the goddamn thermo-nuclear bomb for banter warfare. But I just want everyone to recognize what we're gonna have to do if we want to catch up.

Rihaku said:
As previously mentioned, I think you guys are strongly overestimating the mental contamination that arises from options without the +Mental Contamination Attribute. Plus, Hunger already has Cursebearer-level soul and mental defenses, so the maximum permissible contamination is already capped.
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I think people are talking not just about "mental contamination" in the formal sense of "there is literally an alter copy of this guy riding around in your brain and occasionally controlling your actions," but in terms of personality. Hunger's personality has been evolving in a certain direction that some of us don't like, and the choices we've made for upgrades seem to reinforce it.

Developing multiple layered forms like the Forebear apparently had made Hunger blase about dying, to the point where it started to handicap him. Getting the "ROYALTY IS TO CUT" Blade-oriented EFB had similar effects, and now we see Hunger actively desiring to emulate the Forebear, albeit (in fairness) in a combat situation.

It's not just the strict effects of +Mental Contamination, it's the thematic effects of Hunger's power being derived almost entirely from his ability to imitate the Forebear.

Xalvitor said:
This convinced me. I'm all on board the sword train. I'm sorry magic-gang, but I really don't want to die.
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Renaissance Woman bypasses most of the risk of death by turning one of our allies into a cognitohazard-tier diplomacy monster.

Also, there are options, like enoble, that improve our mental health. We really should take them.
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Yes. Yes we should.

Those are not the SORD options tho.

Prospalz said:
Sometimes you just get options like this.

We basically won EFB by taking one such option for our right-hand woman, Suizhen. Then she went and killed all of the final bosses for us.
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Didn't the option text read something like "Unleash the power of First Girl!" or something like that?

TwistedJester said:
Mans Gisena's gonna be so smug if Renaissance Woman wins and she hard carries us.
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I'm honestly curious to know what happens when the sheer density of smugness becomes so overwhelming that it punctures a hole in spacetime and creates some kind of singularity.

And I'm pretty sure only Gisena can do that.

Duquette7 said:
Except for the 28 Arete we spend here on everything except personal power.
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I mean, it's pretty pure personal power.

Literally pretty, literally pure, literally power, and literally personal...

We're just not that person. We're that person's best friend.

Rihaku said:
I'll reiterate:

Companion-buffing Advancements have to be more powerful because they're not compounded by all your existing Advancements! So it is good, but consider the synergy inherent in your existing arsenal.
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That's fair, and I'm still defiantly voting "Crimson Flare" as I write this, but...

I have to admit that Crimson Flare and All-Defeating Stance basically just give us more of something we already had- namely, raw badass combat ability. Renaissance Woman gives us something rather different.
 
Crimson Flare good! It's good at different things from ADS in that while its not superior in terms of killy power, it makes us much more capable of handling an army, ruling a kingdom, and overall doing the mission of our Geas! Remember, we can't go into every individual planet and kill everyone there!
 
Huh, looks like I called the reveal of the All-Defeating Description. Now we get to see if it lives up to the name:

[X] Forbear's Blade: All-Defeating Stance

I'd be fine with either this or Flare, but blowing literally the most Arete we have ever had at one time on Gisena would make me die a little inside, so put me down for Team Anything But Renaissance Woman. That said, the All-Defeating Stance is the strongest option when it comes to the challenges immediately ahead of us. Look at all the synergies on display: 5x Power of Ruin against all targets, +5 to all stats. Our Willpower is converted to Str/Con/Agi; the Power of Ruin scales with strength.

Doesn't anyone want to stop scurrying from fight to fight, incessantly panicking about what advancements to buy and when the sword of Damocles looming overhead will descend? It's time for us to become the danger. Not only will doubled charisma & manipulation against weaker enemies make the Geas task easier, we can negotiate the Temple's surrender from a position of strength, because our foes know when they're beaten.

The hour of vindication is upon the Inner Residents at last. The slumber of justice was long, but the fury of her wakening is vast.
 
Vote count?

Kurowari said:
I am however, entirely opposed to Renaissance Woman ever winning. I have absolutely no desire to sacrifice our potential and power just to buff Gisena up; there's no way I'll ever vote to spend more than 10 Beyond Point equivalents if it doesn't contribute to Hunger's personal legend.
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Mm, True Quintessence lets her generate buffing Graces and such, so you're not wasting it on buffs to Gisena alone (if one considers that wasteful). It will accelerate Hunger's own growth curve as well, just not as much as Crimson Flare or All-Defeating Stance might.
 
[X] Forbear's Blade: All-Defeating Stance
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

Dear lord, the thread is going all in on Renaissance Woman - it's far worse than I feared. There were just a few votes for her when I started replying, but now there are legions of Gisena supporters rising!!

Temporary vote while I'm still at work. I will vote as necessary to ensure Renaissance Woman does not win.
 
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

Not really interested in going for world when a large portion of the sum being spent here was generated off the backs of people who did it in part because the didn't want a stance build. Renaissance is good immediately and long term. But narratively seems likely to lead to a good few updates of basically Gisena doing everything. Which doesn't sound too appealing to read about. So even though I'm not at all interested in giving a golden parachute to these guys and the ring is the option most likely to lead to that... it still gets my vote by elimination.
 
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I'm pretty exciting for the Galladriel bit after Gisena finds her new ring in the temple. I always wondered how rad Lung Feng Zhao with Ambition would be. Now i can have that, but prettier, and more suitable for Rihaku's foot fetish banter!

Rihaku said:
A Wind Full of Knives

Gisena welcomed their newest party member warmly, though Aeira seemed powerfully intimidated by the superhuman Sorceress, unable to raise her voice above a whisper when addressing Gisena directly.
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Girl, you ain't seen nothing yet.
[X] Renaissance Woman

Not only does the vote-tally have good coloration, not only does the bbcode let me put in my usual white x, not only does it trivialize our stated mission, not only does it bring Gisena back to the fighting updates, I finally get to see something like Lung Feng Zhao with Ambition!
Unless of course she doesn't end up wielding the Moon ring, but I give that slim odds.
 
Redshirt Army said:
I can hear Orm's wailing and gnashing of teeth from here.
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Honestly I am barely restrained to curse at everybody that votes for Gisena EFB. We busted our asses yesterday and to see people wasting(and it is wasting) that Arete is infuriating. I am willing to change my vote just to see Gisena not winning. One of the arguments for Edeldross was to help Gisena, but now it is useless.
 
Xalvitor said:
This convinced me. I'm all on board the sword train. I'm sorry magic-gang, but I really don't want to die.

Also, there are options, like enoble, that improve our mental health. We really should take them.
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If you are considering ennoble, flare really would enhance it significantly. Also, I am pretty sure I remember Rihaku stating that we had a good chance of escaping from Ave whatever his name is even without flare which makes our everything better via rank and puts our blood powers at .5 of a rank above him so I am pretty certain we can escape with flare if we need to and have a good chance of winning if not necessarily being able to solo the temple.
 
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Simon_Jester said:
If we pick Renaissance Woman, and there are DAMN good reasons to do so... We're gonna have to start taking Evening Sky upgrades to boost Hunger's mental stats and charisma.
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Nah, we'll probably just take Vigors and Quickenings since that gives more +Mental Stats, gives way more combat power simultaneously and only gets stronger the more we invest.
 
@Rihaku it should be "Forebear" instead of Forbear, I believe.

Also. What would Renaissance Woman Gisena with the Azure Ring be like? xD
Redshirt Army said:
Hmm. Let me try to guess what some of Rihaku's arguments against Renaissance Woman will be.

- Retinue: This trades 25% of our progression speed in exchange for Gisena getting that progression. Do we really want to make that tradeoff?

(The answer is yes. We've got a bunch of +Progression options available to more than make up for this, at which point this basically becomes pure benefit since it gives us someone who can continue escalating with us. There's a reason this option cost a Lesser Remittance!)
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Oh wait -- did I misunderstand what that bit meant in the update?

I thought what it did was give Gisena the Retinue Remittance, thus letting her lower her own XP intake by 25% in order to boost somebody else's by one quarter of her's... And that sort of weirded me out because it didn't quite make sense. Hunger didn't even have Retinue after all.

But you're saying instead that what happens if Gisena gains the boost or bonus of Retinue; i.e. Hunger's Progression is lowered by 25%, and in exchange Gisena gains a 25% boost to her own Progression? That... makes more sense, than what I previously thought would happen.
 
Sharkey_smt said:
Honestly I am barely restrained to curse at everybody that votes for Gisena EFB. We busted our asses yesterday and to see people wasting(and it is wasting) that Arete is infuriating. I am willing to change my vote just to see Gisena not winning. One of the arguments for Edeldross was to help Gisena, but now it is useless.
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It's happened, boys. We've done the impossible. We acquired too much Arete.
 
@Rihaku , are we continuing to gain Arete during this update, or has that been put on pause, as it has been before during consolidation updates?

If it has been put on pause, I'd just like to point out that we can't actually afford All-Defeating Stance or Renaissance Woman without going into Arete Debt. That's probably a bigger issue for ADS, since with RW we can just sleep the debt off while Gisena solo carries the temple.
 
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare

I'm actually fine with Renaissance Woman winning. Aprocrphal curse down 20%, Tyrant mitigated, the chance to offload the pressure of getting a ressurection mechanism for our wife as eclipse can replicate Grace's, etc.

However, very much against team all defeating. As much of the thread does intend to pick up an evening sky and ring EFB, it locks us out of getting a free Trinity special advancement. Yes I realize the blurb is good, but is it as good as two blurbs?
 
Orm Embar said:
Team Anything But Renaissance Woman.
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Brothers and sisters, what I ask of you is not an easy thing. The WAIFU gang has come and intends to destroy our Arete pile. We must unite against this common enemy. Ring or Stance, I don`t care. I need your help. Write enough omake to combat those waifu lurkers.

I will repeat my vow from yesterday. 5k words towards TABRW(Team Anything But Renaissance Woman)

Lets show how we do things in the Arete mines.

[X] Forbear's Blade: All-Defeating Stance
[X] The Ring of Power: Crimson Flare
 
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As the self-proclaimed biggest supporter of Arthur, I'l just say this:

Hahahahahahahahahahaaha! The power of salt invigorates me! Foolish questers, to not have realized my ultimate plan all along!
 
Garlak said:
happens if Gisena gains the boost or bonus of Retinue; i.e. Hunger's Progression is lowered by 25%, and in exchange Gisena gains a 25% boost to her own Progression? That... makes more sense, than what I previously thought would happen.
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Hunger is not losing Progression here; she is making her own path by catching a glimpse of Infinite Singularity Husk.
 
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Come on Patron, charge me already so I can buy that sweet, sweet blurb library.

I need to see if Trinity is that much better then Four Bear, bucuase so far most of my favorite picks have been blade, and it's also my preferred play style.
 
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Shard said:
It happened for All Paths as well, didn't it?
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Fucking All Paths...
Talace said:
holy shit
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It has decent odds of soloing the entire Temple! Avecarn with Arete Debt is nothing, the All-Defeating Stance can take on all his superiors and subordinates, the luminaries of the Council themselves! It's nothing less than victory handed to us on a blue-and-silver platter. All we have to do... is reach out and take it. And yes, I know passing up Trinity hurts, but this builds toward a Special Advancement of equal potency! Puts us two-thirds of the way there, just as taking Flare would put us two-thirds of the way to Trinity.
 
Does Gisena's version of Retinue reduce our Progression? and does she mitigate the Doom of the Tyrant or 'just' the other three Curses?
 
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