Not dying does take priority... but I really want to get Pearlescence asap now.
[X] The Streamline
[X] 7 Arete Version
- As written.
[X] Quickwater
 
Is this it.

Is this where the Evening Sky falters?

Against water and edel(garde)ross.

Does our Panoply fail when compared to practicality and people?

Has Kong Zang not taught you well??
 
As much as I really like Evening sky stuff and especially the pillars, this plus a lot of other arguements have convinced that Edeldross might actually be more worthwhile at the moment, especially considering Quickwater's most potent ability require set up which might not be possible in the Inner Temple. Gisena can help a lot with the grace advancement so it might not even eat up Arete and gives a lot of useful power up front, both to us and our ally in the form of extra stats and defensive abilities for them.

Considering this is going to eat up a lot of our Arete intake at the moment, i'm willing to change my vote.

[X] The Streamline
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Edeldross
We already got Cut Through and shit, we are much farther ahead then we were previously. The fact that its broader effects require Gisena research means it likely won't be relevant for the Inner Temple; while it's stat pluses can be compensated by Evening Sky picks. Plus we get to save Arete for long-term goals. The stat-ups are not as important to me as getting the Evening Sky up to par.

Not dying does take priority... but I really want to get Pearlescence asap now.
[X] The Streamline
[X] 7 Arete Version
- As written.
[X] Quickwater
I'm going to be frank, if Inksky doesn't win I find it highly unlikely any of it's options, especially the Opalescence line would beat the Blood+Uttermost synergies. Why do you think we were offered this is the first place? If you want to invest in the Evening Sky, you should vote for the option that puts it on par with the other artifacts.

[X] The Streamline
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Inksky


Don't mind me, just remembered being cheapskate would be funny.
 
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Blah had it been known Rune King applied to Praxis I would have swapped in a heartbeat. 4x Faster Sword Praxis and Edeldross (leading I hope to Findross). It Praxis is really that good, anything that buffs the speed of it is almost needed, it sounds like a very complex and deep system.

I'm pretty surprised there isn't an option for us to pick Zea's magic too. Come on Rihaku, where's your love of build votes?
 
Pure edeldross is semi-corporeal and swiftly fades beneath the withering indifference of the real, but contained within a person's body it holistically augments all elements of the self, supernal excellence beyond the reach of the mundane.
-Beings within the radius of a release of pure edeldross receive a 20% bonus to all Attributes. The magnitude of this bonus can be improved over time. Take care not to buff your enemies as well. Pure edeldross is considerably more draining to use.

Rihaku? I have some confusion with regards to Edeldross's buff, the fluff talks about the internal effects of edeldross, but the mechanics only references an AOE effect.

Is there a static 20% buff in effect on hunger at all times with this option? Even if it has to be maintained? Or is the buff only active after the activation of the draining AOE effect?
 
Ruinous Valor was not really an great option anymore for us in terms of immediate power, so we need more power to beat the Rotbeast and than go back into the temple!

We have yet to face the strongest fucks in the temple! The inner residents might be more broken than thrust dude.

I don't think Hunger intends to fight the Rotbeast at this juncture. He has no way of knowing how strong it is, what if it kills him?

It's likely that the strongest the Temple has to offer are beyond even Vanreir, though to what degree is another question...

But Evening Sky would provide things that Blood Advancements don't; indeed with their respective themes it's hard for them to overlap. Blood+Uttermost just debuffed the Evening Sky enough its picks weren't worth it even considering this, but with Inksky's improvements...

Your current situation = Baseline
Quickwater or Edeldross = Baseline + 15 stats
Inksky = Baseline + 3 stats

After 3 picks:
Quickwater or Edeldross = Baseline + 15 stats + 3 Blood Advancements worth of value
Inksky = Baseline + 3 stats + 3 or fewer Blood Advancements worth of value

The stats gap remains essentially until you cash out the Pillars discount! That's quite a large difference in capability. And you don't have the Arete to get something like Pearlescence (9 Arete, 3 picks) to really benefit from that +100% Protection, so SAVEgang is arguably better off taking power now.

[X] The Streamline

Hunger is a poor lad, with naught but the Artifacts on his back, not even a planet or two to his name. Time to engage in fiscal responsibility, a pennymedian quarterly wage a day, and eventually you're talking real money!

Pssh, just mooch of Letrizia once you get back to civ. She's got plenty of planets, though not directly!
 
Is this it.

Is this where the Evening Sky falters?

Against water and edel(garde)ross.

Does our Panoply fail when compared to practicality and people?

Has Kong Zang not taught you well??
I think people just want to remove the Evening Sky from our panoply, honestly. There's a consistent refusal to take things that actually improve it. The only recent purchase taken that it offered was Fall of Night, which was purely for its capacity to help the Forebear's Blade be better at swording. Whatever justifications are used, it's still a willful denial of development for something that ostensibly should stand on the same level as our sword and ring.

There's no actual point in having the Evening Sky, if there's never any investment into it. If the thread listens to Rihaku, as they often do, say that "The Evening Sky option is weak and lame and you should never take it in the face of a more powerful option", as he often does, then there's no point beating around the bush about it. The thread needs to just look in a mirror, be honest with themselves, and vote to toss the Eveing Sky into a trashcan and get something else.
 
Vertiginous Heights

The winning vote is [X] Zweihander, [X] Upgrade Letrizia's Magic System and [X] Check Up on Gisena.

Letrizia informs Hunger that she has discovered the Elixir residents are hiding the existence of certain children and teenagers who have developed a set of powers they refer to as High Elementalism. With a cursory examination of their blood, Hunger sees how to replicate this effect in both Letrizia and himself. The only other component needed is a large sample of apex-grade Elixir Springs water, which can be gotten at any 5-Star Elixir resort. They're unlikely to be happy with the consumption of so much apex-grade water, but the Sovereignty will just have to deal. Hunger decides to scope out the available resorts with Gisena; which do they end up deciding on?
Being a Tyrant isn't an affliction, it's a way of life! What do they mean they don't want to part with their precious strategic resources? Is their opinion supposed to matter to us? I would say something about us killing that Prime Rotspawn justifying this appropriation, but the Tyrant needs no justification. We wanted the apex-grade Elixir water, we took it.

Also, cute how they were trying to hide Surgecrafters. Kudos for the effort, even if I can't help finding their attempts at concealing the existence of those walking bombs hilarious. That it can be gotten through blood probably means it's going to develop into some kind of hereditary magic in the future, but the reliance on Elixir water to jumpstart the initial abilities seems to hint to me that inherited abilities would become weaker, so maybe they're going to segregate into castes, with access to the Elixir Springs becoming heavily regulated.

Freedom and Justice you say? We'll see what happens after a few generations.

Hunger currently has 10 currency units, each representing roughly a quarter's wages for a middle-class worker in the Empire.

[ ] The Streamline - A relatively bare-bones resort whose focus is on simple quality of water. The overall accommodations, accoutrements and food service are barely on the level of a 3-star resort, but their root access to apex-grade springs and beautiful skyline views elevate them to the ranks of 5-star. The 'cheap' 5-star, for those who need healing at a somewhat affordable cost. 2 currency units for two nights.

[ ] The Kaguya - A breathtakingly meticulous recreation of the traditional Eastern hot-springs style, situated amongst the most extravagantly opulent accommodations to grace the entire Sovereignty. You may choose to enjoy apex-grade waters fed directly from the root springs while lounging in the sybaritic luxury of your royal-grade suite, or venture into the handcrafted public baths to soak in restorative warmth while drinking in the unspoiled landscape below. Situated upon the slopes of the highest mountain peak, sheltered from wintry frost by the vivacious steam of the core pools, the Kaguya promises a once-in-a-lifetime experience of truly imperial grandeur. Gaze upon the snow-dusted evergreens and crystal-bright streams of this pristine wilderness while savoring the greatest culinary delights that the Sovereignty can bring to bear. 8 currency units for two nights.

There is absolutely no mechanical benefit whatsoever for taking the Kaguya, not even +Relationships, because Gisena and Letrizia aren't shallow like that! Staff at the Kaguya may be somewhat more accommodating of extreme water usage, though it will likely attract attention either way. Take care, this choice may have more implications than are immediately apparent.
No mechanical benefits it says. And no relationship bonuses. But that doesn't encompass the full range of consequences that could follow this choice, because it smells like plot to me. Moon-themed hot springs? What an interesting coincidence!

We've already postulated that Elixir's springs might be hiding some kind of secret, with their magic making it even more obvious, but choosing the most expensive resort, and thus likely the one with the highest access to whatever they're hiding, could get us further involved in thus mystery as a 'less apparent' consequences.

Or it'll just make Hunger a sybarite, but I'm fine with that. He's an obsessed workaholic, it would do him good.

---

Choose your Imaginary Element. Letrizia's Element will be revealed afterwards.

[ ] 2 Arete Version - Reduce all Attribute/Rank benefits by 70%, remove all Arete discounts, increase by 400% the difficulty / time requirement of esoteric applications and reduce by one half-step the theoretical limits of the Element's abilities. The effectiveness of blasts, voids and shields of the element is largely unaffected.
[ ] 7 Arete Version - As written.
The descriptions are all too tasty for me to bear nerfing any of them, even if we'll exceed those 'theoretical limits' no matter how low they are anyway. Why do we need more Arete? This is why we need more Arete.

[ ] Quickwater: The moon-graced elixir of formless clarion, whose dewdrops are stars and mist the constellation, its falling rain the cosmos come plunging to earth. In its simplest form, a fog of quickwater conveys pitiless, whimsical speed, swiftness like an ink-blur trail. Dimmed, it conveys the quiet speed of an assassin's moon; heightened, it scours vision away like ten thousand blazing suns. Congealed into tenuous solidity, its potions may confer all manner of transformation, many of them swiftly lethal. Take care when wielding its ten thousand variations, for it acknowledges neither liege nor master, only the primacy of the moment.

Hunger's imaginary Element is determined by his practicality. He requires immediate power and access to esoteric effects; this provides both.

Quickwater mist grants +50% AGI, +.1 Rank, and a degree of concealment to its creator when within its bounds; increasing density over time can improve this to +100% AGI, +.25 Rank with preparation. A symmetrical Rank penalty is applied to others inside, including allies. Bonuses can be further developed with training.
~Quickwater potions can be imbibed for similar effect, but require constant effort to stabilize in coherent liquid form.
~Variations currently available: Assassin's Mist provides ++++Stealth instead of Rank; Blinding Mist grants exceptional "concealment" by outputting enormous quantities of light. Mist type may be switched every moonrise, or potions concocted in advance, though with the usual stipulations. Some means of overcoming sleep may be necessary to keep potions stable through the night...
~Experimentation can yield vast varieties of different mist with varying effects. The transformations of Quickwater are as endless as the realm of dreams. Take care that you do not wander into the distaff plane of nightmare.
Drink Elixir water and become an Elixir mage, I wonder if this option's comparatively straightforward power comes from translating the spring magics into Surgecraft so directly. Though it does promise many more variations in the future if we follow its lure, at the moment it seems restricted to making us into some kind of assassin. Well, it seems to be a fan of Malfean Stealth too if we don't want to resort to conventional means of hiding. Can't see you if they're blind! Only one step below setting yourself on fire to avoid ninjas...

The flat Rank bonus is kind of amazing though, given it says nothing about diminishing effects after Rank grows. This effect would stack pretty well with the Ring and make its enhancements worth a lot more, so if we really want to risk the contest of primacy so soon, taking this might be appropriate.

Can also be used to buff our companions, but the sleep requirement is kind of steep. Our boy Hunger has gotten used to sleeping 9 hours per day already, taking that away is going to be difficult.

[ ] Inksky: Nothing less than the semi-sentient symbiotic substance of the Evening Sky itself. With this, the mantle's power is amplified threefold: suffused at a greater density, it provides more overall benefits; with its master capable of healing it, it can swiftly regenerate from depletion; and through the crude manipulation of High Elementalism it can be brought to bear as lash or aegis against one's enemies, curling around to stifle, trip, smother and crush.

Hunger's Imaginary Element is determined by his panoply.

Single Receptacle
: Rather than firing blasts of inksky himself, Hunger manifests all instances of High Elementalism through the vessel of the Evening Sky, allowing it to benefit from Accretion. +100% to the Protection and Charisma granted by the Evening Sky. Unlocks a number of highly efficient Evening Sky Advancements dealing with the domains of space, night, majesty and magic.

Discounts Pillars of Creation by 5 Arete.
-Hunger may take an action to repair the Evening Sky; amount repairs depends on the total +Protection granted and his own ability in High Elementalism
-Hunger may directly manipulate the Evening Sky as an extra appendage, though control is crude until trained.
With time, the cloak could expand to truly cosmic size: become the evening sky in truth!
Its powers are few, but that's due to how focused Inksky is on one goal only: making Evening Sky great again! Uttermost hit Evening Sky the worst out of all Artifacts, as its main Attributes were Protection and Charisma, both stats that Uttermost assigns a malus to. With this we more than offset the penalty and can even quickly regenerate Evening Sky, meaning that we can fight for much longer inside the Tides of Nullity once we get Iridiscence.

But we know what we're here really for. Boni to Protection and Charisma are nice, Cloak manipulation is neat, better advancements for Evening Sky could restore it to relevance, but it's the discount to the Pillars of Creation that really hits our weak point. Ways to buy EFBs piecemeal aren't easy to come by, and this is essentially what the option does. Seeing how the rest of the effects is worth more than 2 Arete, this looks like a pretty Arete-efficient option!

Assuming we survive long enough to get Pillars, of course.

[ ] Edeldross: This precursor component of findross embodies redemption, perfection, restoration and the renewal of cycles. It is the liminal gloss between real and ideal, whereby the purposeless matter of the corporeal world becomes the refined substrate of supernal augmentation. Blasts, voids and shields of solidified edeldross convey the principle of 'transference without harm,' allowing the character to re-position allies and scatter enemies with minimal possibility of collateral damage. Kinetic flight is possible through continuous burst releases, but its greatest benefits are found in augmentation. Pure edeldross is semi-corporeal and swiftly fades beneath the withering indifference of the real, but contained within a person's body it holistically augments all elements of the self, supernal excellence beyond the reach of the mundane.

Though mastery is a long and arduous process, precise configurations of Edeldross can be arranged so as to replicate nearly one-tenth of all Sorcerous Graces.

Hunger's Imaginary Element is determined by his relationships. Gisena's art, shaped by Letrizia's language and technique, conferring Catherine's benevolence. +Gisena, +Letrizia, +Catherine (?)

Discounts Total Eclipse by 1 Arete
-Solidified edeldross can be used as a form of damage-preventing energy blast, which, while unable to slay enemies on its own, can be actively spammed due to its negation of harm. Can ablate away to cancel equivalent quantities of Nullity, allowing for easy combat alongside Gisena with a bit of practice. Pacify a city undergoing a zombie apocalypse with a minimum of innocent life lost, scatter both sides in a pitched battle without slaying any of their number, etc.
-Beings within the radius of a release of pure edeldross receive a 20% bonus to all Attributes. The magnitude of this bonus can be improved over time. Take care not to buff your enemies as well. Pure edeldross is considerably more draining to use.
-By working with Gisena's mage-sight, Hunger may slowly over time develop specific Patterns of edeldross that can temporary replicate the effects of various Sorcerous Graces. Perhaps even developments even further than this can be achieved in time...
Do you want to be a princess Sorceress? Well, this is it. I haven;t asked myself if there was some precursor element to findross, truth to be told, though I guess it should have occurred to me given the fin. It's kind of hard to get a precise grasp on its full capabilities due to how versatile it is, to be honest.

Its basic and best effect is the 20% bonus to all stats, which kind of blows many of the +AllStats options we've seen previously out of the water. Also partially offsets the malus of the Uttermost to stuff like Luck and Wis, which aren't easy to enhance in the first place.

The relationship bonus is kind of... ??? I suspect there are further things to explore in this direction, especially the Catherine mystery box. Will we resurrect the ghost of our wife and become a ghostly pair? After all, it says one can configure nearly a tenth of all Sourcerous Graces in time, and we personally chose Resurrection in our previous quest as one of our Graces. Hard to believe we'll be capable of cross-dimensional revival so early on in the story, but it's called Grace for a reason.

Assuming we aren't secretly fulfilling some kind of secret fetish of this world's Ceathlynn with Edeldross.

In comparison to all that its blasts seem almost boring, but 'transference without harm' expands our non-lethal options massively. Maybe we can learn to hit them with the flat side of the Praxis, but that would be so uncool, whereas this magic is specifically meant for such attempts. And combat teleportation is nothing to sniff at either, as that is one of the areas we find ourselves somewhat lacking in currently.

The 1 Arete discount to Total Eclipse is kind of eh after all that, but it's understandable, since not much power is spent on it. It's likely mostly there due to synergies rather than any intentional investment.

...I've almost convinced myself to pick Edeldross after seeing the litany of benefits it offers, despite being fascinated by Inksky on first readthrough. For now though:

[X] The Kaguya
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Inksky


1032 Words
 
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Foremost also used Findross right? Eldeldross might allow us to figure out what that was all about! Also buffing Gisena eventually!

She's someone who is capable of being relevant for a long while, if we can figure out a way to get Findross! Think of our companions!
 
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[X] The Streamline
[X] 7 Arete Version
[X] Edeldross


Edeldross is so gorgeous, holistic advancement, nonlethal options (the opposite of my Surgecraft worries), mystery box! And Graces, but I don't actually care about those that much.

Inksky's power is too great to compete with, I think, but I must try. Not that I don't understand the motivation there.
 
I think people just want to remove the Evening Sky from our panoply, honestly. There's a consistent refusal to take things that actually improve it. The only recent purchase taken that it offered was Fall of Night, which was purely for its capacity to help the Forebear's Blade be better at swording. Whatever justifications are used, it's still a willful denial of development for something that ostensibly should stand on the same level as our sword and ring.

There's no actual point in having the Evening Sky, if there's never any investment into it. If the thread listens to Rihaku, as they often do, say that "The Evening Sky option is weak and lame and you should never take it in the face of a more powerful option", as he often does, then there's no point beating around the bush about it. The thread needs to just look in a mirror, be honest with themselves, and vote to toss the Eveing Sky into a trashcan and get something else.

If we do end up, you know, removing Evening Sky from our Panoply, then we better have a fucking back up ready. Sword, Mantle, Ring after all. That said, no need to toss it to the trashcan. We can repurpose the entire thing into Gisena's evening gown and whatnot. Let her deal with the Findross stuff because I have barely a minor interest in researching it despite all the thought out memes we've got on display.
 
The story of a boy who loved the evening sky so much he chose to save it.

The story of an adolescent who witness his home get ransacked by pirates, and took it upon himself to avenge his home with sword and ship.

The story of a man who, on the precipice of his final victory, is waylaid by an astral portal.

The story of a bond between a moon and a boy, cut short.

"You ever wonder who that pirate was?" asked Gisena.



"No, not really." replied Hunger.
 
Man, we were just complaining how the Evening Sky was lagging severely behind the other artifacts, and now we are being offered an opportunity to rectify that. I'd be a shame not take it and keep essentially ignoring it...

Your current situation = Baseline
Quickwater or Edeldross = Baseline + 15 stats
Inksky = Baseline + 3 stats

After 3 picks:
Quickwater or Edeldross = Baseline + 15 stats + 3 Blood Advancements worth of value
Inksky = Baseline + 3 stats + 3 or fewer Blood Advancements worth of value

The stats gap remains essentially until you cash out the Pillars discount! That's quite a large difference in capability. And you don't have the Arete to get something like Pearlescence (9 Arete, 3 picks) to really benefit from that +100% Protection, so SAVEgang is arguably better off taking power now.
But the point of saving is to get an EFB, so why wouldn't those who want to save pick Inksky? And we don't have the Arete for Pearlescence yet. Having Inksky would make grabbing that much more likely. And if we want that Special Advancement, then getting the Arete discounts now is immensely valuable.

Yes, it's not immediatley better, but it doesn't need to be; there's no need to let the Temple influence all considerations of future. Inksky finally puts our artifacts in an more even keel; and that has narrative benefits for me more than mechanical ones; I've not been enjoying seeing the Evening Sky slowly fade from the battles we've been having. I want to have a Sword, Mantle and Ring in truth, not just pay lip service to one of them...
 
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Zang Kong LLC: the Sky Above the Sky is Greater Still(R)!
 
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It's incorrect to say that Blood advancements have better value; while true in vacuum, Inksky also boosts Prot/Cha gained from such choices while Blood doesn't, giving greater value overall. Additionally, once we get the Ruling Ring we will lose Blood Progression, while Inksky will stack with that.

Besides, it's a matter of winning the game. Right now our main win conditions are ruling Human Sphere and obtaining Cut/Ring/Pillar combo for power, and Inksky directly improves both. It makes Cha build that much better, between outright improving Charisma, giving us more option to get it and just plain making it likely that we will want to buy some, and it obviously discounts Pillars, reducing total cost of our combo from 43 to 38 Arete.

And, of course, making Evening Sky relevant just feels really fucking good..
 
Man, we were just complaining how the Evening Sky was lagging severely behind the other artifacts, and now we are being offered an opportunity to rectify that. I'd be a shame not take it and keep essentially ignoring it...


But the point of saving is to get an EFB, so why wouldn't those who want to save pick Inksky? And we don't have the Arete for Pearlescence yet. Having Inksky would make grabbing that much more likely. And if we want that Special Advancement, then getting the Arete discounts now is immensely valuable.

Yes, it's not immediatley better, but it doesn't need to be; there's no need to let the Temple influence all considerations of future. Inksky finally puts our artifacts in an more even keel; and that has narrative benefits for me more than mechanical ones; I've not been enjoying seeing the Evening Sky slowly fade from the battles we've been having. I want to have a Sword, Mantle and Ring in truth, not just pay lip service to one of them...
Sadly, temple is such an death trap that untill we are out immediate power will always be the better choice. Let's also remember that we have only few days of the Apocryphal Curse inactivation left, once it ends, we will be in even more danger in the Temple!

Best to take more power now and deal with the Temple as quick as possible! We can focus on Evening Sky when we are relatively less danger!
 
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Current vote count?

Foremost also used Findross right? Eldeldross might allow us to figure out what that was all about! Also buffing Gisena eventually!

Findross is so convenient, who wouldn't use it if they had the chance? The ability to develop useful superpowers and clean up the environment at the same time!

Edeldross is so gorgeous, holistic advancement, nonlethal options (the opposite of my Surgecraft worries), mystery box! And Graces, but I don't actually care about those that much.

Plus it offers plenty of power right now, when you need it!

"You ever wonder who that pirate was?" asked Gisena.

"That pirate, was nothing more, than a petty Tyrant." Wanting to save enslave the moon! How dare he?

Thus always to Tyrants!
 
Inserted tally
Adhoc vote count started by BrainInAJar on Jun 24, 2020 at 3:29 AM, finished with 187 posts and 46 votes.
 
...We need Arete, and I never actually asked this, so I may as well try even if I expect it to be pointless.

@Rihaku, I'd like to point out that the line in my signature advertising A Simple Transaction has been there since the first one was running, and thus all the way through Even Further Beyond. While I will admit that this was because I never bothered editing my signature after the quest ended, do I get any particular Arete bonus for having it there for over three years? Even if it "just" gives us what it would have earned normally at 0.05 per month, that's still 2 full Arete.
 
It's incorrect to say that Blood advancements have better value; while true in vacuum, Inksky also boosts Prot/Cha gained from such choices while Blood doesn't, giving greater value overall.

That's already factored in, though the Advancements in question don't usually give stats directly. They're more lateral expansion of capabilities.

Besides, it's a matter of winning the game.

Winning the game requires not dying! Not dying in the Temple, not dying to the Apocryphal Curse... all this can be achieved by pulling ahead of the power curve! Instead of fighting overwhelmingly powerful enemies and hoping that increased Protection will result in fewer conditions (is this a vain hope given how far behind your Protection is? Do you want to spend 9 Arete and 3 picks trying to patch it?), you could just be more powerful!

I'm surprised you're not aiming for Quickwater given its flat Rank bonus, though...
 
Winning the game requires not dying! Not dying in the Temple, not dying to the Apocryphal Curse... all this can be achieved by pulling ahead of the power curve! Instead of fighting overwhelmingly powerful enemies and hoping that increased Protection will result in fewer conditions (is this a vain hope given how far behind your Protection is? Do you want to spend 9 Arete and 3 picks trying to patch it?), you could just be more powerful!

We are already ahead of the power-curve though. Can't we use this opportunity to invest towards the future instead? Considering how crippling conditions can be, having less of them would be ideal.

Everything is a vain hope if we don't build towards it; especially EFBs. We have to start somewhere, and this looks like a especially good place. We want to bring Evening Sky up to par, so we have to build towards it; even if it is less optimal. We can't just leave it out to dry.
 
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