Or we could take a pure utility Element and use it to cover our ass while we mono-focus combat power. Imagine: a boost to social could've made Vanreir an ally, or to research could've let us get an extra Sorcerous Advancement out of Gisena. Even just something to boost our odds of surviving a losing fight would be a great replacement for Form of Rage, and probably not take up much word count.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Enohthree
Hypersane
How much Arete do you imagine that costing however? A flat 20 to 25% increase in survivability wasn't seen as worth 7 Arete when there were competing things we could spend it on, and I'd much rather bank on a full Vertex magic system than just what's available at 2 or so Arete.
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
Come on, I promise to you I will finish my 10k omake after the finals!
...It just going to take 2 weeks.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Depending on how much arete we have now I think we may be able to finish the ring within 2 days at the Temple. Unless we end up needing to spend arete for survival, and with at least 2 high-pick no arete options we need to take asap we can probably avoid that, we should be able to manage it while still being safer than our last couple forays, thanks to vertex, gisena, Uttermost, and Cut Through.
ImperatorV
The Laughing One
- Location
- The Voyaging Realm
So, it's time for a tangent about Accretion and magic systems. Probably none of this is relevant to Hunger since he has a set of ridiculous-tier artifacts already.
Vertex and Accretion would make quite a powerful twice-great combination. Accretion can be "leveled up" by working on the craftsmanship of his artifacts, which naturally syngergizes with Vertices needing to be crafted. Accretion acting as a form of symbiosis with both artifacts and wielder becoming greater then the some of their parts could allow the hypothetical twice-great to elevate their vertices to higher tiers of power with less lifespan sacrifice required. The natural reality-warping of Rank would also protect the bonded Vertices from being destroyed, one of their downsides.
On the topic of Surgecraft... I wonder if an Accretion user could make their Imaginary Element their bonded Accretion Artifact? We know from the Muscle Wizard build back in the day that a person could designate their body as an Accretion Artifact - however, that was with the effect of Intensify, a Cursebearer Lesser Remittance! With Accretion being all about accumulating shared experience and legend to enforce mythic archetypes of some sort. I imagine "Wielder of the unique personal element X" could be a valid archetype, and thus a Surge element could qualify as an Accretion Artifact, especially if it was the most distinctive thing about the user, but it's unclear exactly what the limits and requirements of Accretion are. Exactly what qualifies as an "object" for the purposes of Accretion? Can a signature ability of some sort be it? A special martial art, or a specific and distinct magical ability a la an element surge? I seem to remember Rihaku saying something about a signature skill being a valid target for Accretion, which would imply that abilities could be bonded artifacts, which then leads into "Yes, you can probably make your Imaginary Element an Accretion bond."
Another thing, we know for a fact that someone with both Soul Evocation and Accretion can directly train their rank. That implies some level of synergy between the two, perhaps an awakened Soul Evocation makes a person more aware of their "Pressure," the effect their Rank is imposing on reality. Maybe that then allows them to expand the power of their rank with training, like exercising a muscle. Now, tying this in with the above, if an Imaginary Element could be a Accretion Bond, could a Soul Evocation? If so, SE+Accretion would be really synergistic - the Accretion half benefits from being able to train rank, while the SE is empowered by the Accretion bond.
Where is this all going? Aside from cool speculation, Rihaku voiced a question waaaaaaaay back in the initial Magic System vote about how a Thrice Great with the systems of Accretion, Soul Evocation, and Battle Magic would fare. I would posit that a Thrice Great of Accretion, Soul Evocation, and Battle Magic would actually be really good, provided that Accretion can by applied to signature abilities. If so, the hypothetical Thrice Great could designate their Soul Evocation and two "Signature Spells" from Battle Magic as Accretion Bonds, and with the ability to raise their own rank via SE they would be able to grow quite powerful even without taking huge risks to gain rank from! The rising rank would propel the Soul Evocation upwards, while the two Signature Battle Magic spells would become very powerful, if very specific, tools that then could be used to defeat extremely powerful opponents, causing Rank to go up, again. It's actually quite synergistic over all, although it would require a very good Soul Evocation and high creativity with BM spells to reach its full potential.
-ImperatorV, answering questions from hundreds of pages ago.
Vertex and Accretion would make quite a powerful twice-great combination. Accretion can be "leveled up" by working on the craftsmanship of his artifacts, which naturally syngergizes with Vertices needing to be crafted. Accretion acting as a form of symbiosis with both artifacts and wielder becoming greater then the some of their parts could allow the hypothetical twice-great to elevate their vertices to higher tiers of power with less lifespan sacrifice required. The natural reality-warping of Rank would also protect the bonded Vertices from being destroyed, one of their downsides.
On the topic of Surgecraft... I wonder if an Accretion user could make their Imaginary Element their bonded Accretion Artifact? We know from the Muscle Wizard build back in the day that a person could designate their body as an Accretion Artifact - however, that was with the effect of Intensify, a Cursebearer Lesser Remittance! With Accretion being all about accumulating shared experience and legend to enforce mythic archetypes of some sort. I imagine "Wielder of the unique personal element X" could be a valid archetype, and thus a Surge element could qualify as an Accretion Artifact, especially if it was the most distinctive thing about the user, but it's unclear exactly what the limits and requirements of Accretion are. Exactly what qualifies as an "object" for the purposes of Accretion? Can a signature ability of some sort be it? A special martial art, or a specific and distinct magical ability a la an element surge? I seem to remember Rihaku saying something about a signature skill being a valid target for Accretion, which would imply that abilities could be bonded artifacts, which then leads into "Yes, you can probably make your Imaginary Element an Accretion bond."
Another thing, we know for a fact that someone with both Soul Evocation and Accretion can directly train their rank. That implies some level of synergy between the two, perhaps an awakened Soul Evocation makes a person more aware of their "Pressure," the effect their Rank is imposing on reality. Maybe that then allows them to expand the power of their rank with training, like exercising a muscle. Now, tying this in with the above, if an Imaginary Element could be a Accretion Bond, could a Soul Evocation? If so, SE+Accretion would be really synergistic - the Accretion half benefits from being able to train rank, while the SE is empowered by the Accretion bond.
Where is this all going? Aside from cool speculation, Rihaku voiced a question waaaaaaaay back in the initial Magic System vote about how a Thrice Great with the systems of Accretion, Soul Evocation, and Battle Magic would fare. I would posit that a Thrice Great of Accretion, Soul Evocation, and Battle Magic would actually be really good, provided that Accretion can by applied to signature abilities. If so, the hypothetical Thrice Great could designate their Soul Evocation and two "Signature Spells" from Battle Magic as Accretion Bonds, and with the ability to raise their own rank via SE they would be able to grow quite powerful even without taking huge risks to gain rank from! The rising rank would propel the Soul Evocation upwards, while the two Signature Battle Magic spells would become very powerful, if very specific, tools that then could be used to defeat extremely powerful opponents, causing Rank to go up, again. It's actually quite synergistic over all, although it would require a very good Soul Evocation and high creativity with BM spells to reach its full potential.
-ImperatorV, answering questions from hundreds of pages ago.
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I'm betting 2. Which is not a big deal, despite the sheer terror the thread develops on contact with the words "delay" and "inefficiency."
Our boy sucks at research. Two magic systems competing over down-time and EXP will cost us a lot more than Arete. We can't sustain fighting bigger and more badass monsters for everything forever, we need to choose something to let go of if we're going to stay on the tracks. Personally I'm willing to drop a dime and walk rather than lash ourselves to Letrizia and hope nothing blows a hole in our build by taking her out. Social +s have the same opportunity cost as any other incentive!
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
actually that's exactly what Pillars is for!
- Location
- Pindorama
I mean, I don't know if it's necessary for us considering it's 7 Arete; but Rihaku did confirm it would have more potential then Sharp Eye if we invest enough in magic, and we are picking two systems right now. It's probably the best choice for developing the Praxis, which we are sort of committed to right now.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Note in all cases I remember he appended short to medium term to that statement.
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I mean, I think there is a guarantee a low cost surgecasting won't have the same utility as Vertex, but it has power in exchange for that. Personally I don't plan to invest Arete or lifeforce or picks into this magic system whichever choice we make and will just hope we can pick up something with a bit of use without investing in it right now.
why can't we just take the free version?
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
A 7 arete surge can buy the power to stop time.
But are we not already getting power from cut through, do we really want to give narrative space to a magic that only does something we already do. Not to mention the fact that it seems like we will not need to invest to much not vertex to get a functional magic system with good utility which compliments one of our artifacts.
I feel that what we are choosing between is not just more power or utility but whether we want to hear about impossible feats of sword magic or that mixed with element blasts. Because it seems we could just make a lot of minor vertices that do stuff like enhance stats that can fade into the background and still grants us significant power and benefits.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
With mastery. Lets actually see the surges before loving them too much from an estimate of the power level.
Also: Time Stop is overrated. Vanreir's Thrust would have still punched through it, Gisena's Nullity is probably proof against it.
[X] Bloodwraith [2 Arete]
[X] Pursing Technological Solutions
[X] Surgecraft
- Location
- USA
- Pronouns
- He/Him
I feel like you're underestimating the ability to stop time; those two have not demonstrated any ability to deal with it once it's in place
Maragas
Nothing to see here.
- Location
- Tree House
You can't Thrust when you are Stopped in Time
But if we made barriers with stopped time it would have pierced through.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
i just fundamentally don't see the appeal of Studying the Blade this turn. We get picks by default just from clearing trash monsters while we travel, and the added goodwill does nothing to help us while relaxing at the spa.
Technological solutions dramatically improves our power relative to the Voyaging Realm random encounter table.
Technological solutions dramatically improves our power relative to the Voyaging Realm random encounter table.
We really shouldn't count on the temple to allow us to continue the previous routine. Inners know about quickly progressing threats, they know that we outscaled Vanreir, they know we fucked off for a couple of days to do god knows what - the most likely response on our return is sheer overwhelming force, and should they fail at first, expect them to press the proverbial red button and take out their absolute last resorts weapons to deal with us.
Thankfully, we got now got some, too. Picking some more power-type options before we return wouldn't go amiss, though.
Thankfully, we got now got some, too. Picking some more power-type options before we return wouldn't go amiss, though.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
To grab Cut Through asap so we can have at least the very start of the Noble Sword Praxis ready before we get back. A single basic conceptual attack can work miracles, and that's what we will have.
Remember how terrifying Vanrier was for someone with a single attack with the concepts of "defense, and distance do not matter. Dodging is impossible." Stapled on.
For us an attack with "defense does not matter. Healing is impossible. Missing is impossible." Would be ridiculous. And only one of those would be a huge improvement.
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