DarkSideBard
Flying, without moving on
My heart was beating pretty hard when this was posted, and the update title did not help. This is about parity for a conflict with a tremendously stronger foe, though.
I wonder who that other R-type was, and what their deal was? I suppose we'll never know now. Meeting other R-types is advantageous in one sense, because they open up the possibility of +Progression or pseudo +Progression as allies or defeated enemies, though obviously they're also super dangerous.
[X] Punctured Soul
[X] Feat: Kinslayer
Don't talk to me about anti-synergy, I already know. The anti-synergy of this seems less of a risk or debt than either of the others.
I wonder who that other R-type was, and what their deal was? I suppose we'll never know now. Meeting other R-types is advantageous in one sense, because they open up the possibility of +Progression or pseudo +Progression as allies or defeated enemies, though obviously they're also super dangerous.
Devastating Complication
These are being stacked on top of the complication we already have.
-Punctured Soul: Difficult but temporary reduction. More like a setback, honestly, as we could theoretically drop back down to the way we were hunting earlier and still get some advancements. This might allow us to garner more XP through safe farming in the Outer or nearby outside the Temple. Though it would probably have to be outside. I can hardly imagine that after defeating Amarlt, going into most of the Temple will be safe, especially as they seem to have a way to track temple enterers. Lasts a whole month and Apocryphal will be able to jump on top of it.
-True Maiming: Another severe permanent injury. Presumably something we could heal with the right advancement, though getting that advancement probably means getting Ruling Ring or being in more extremely dangerous scenarios, given that we don't have Scent of Prey to look for it. Losing Con and Con effectiveness is really bad, as health, healing, and general tankiness is the cornerstone of our ability to not be utterly fucked by the Apocryphal Curse. I'm weary of vulnerability to exotic vectors like poison and disease; there could easily be a Soul Evocation user who specializes along those lines, and we fight wild beasts all the time. A three day layback means that the severely vulnerable period is smaller, and we could still grind more in the space where Apocryphal is defrayed. But do note that this is actually kind of like losing 3 future XP to fix, so the value of taking it for further hunting is buttressed.
-Lingering Exhaustion: Forces us to rest through and beyond where Apocryphal will come around, at the cost of leaving us likely to be stuck in another exhaustion cycle due to an Apocryphal proc while we're tired. Allows us to avoid longer term penalties, but maybe gives them to us indirectly anyways.
I think this comes down to whether or not you think we can afford to withdraw from the Temple. If we can, then True Maiming is obviously bad and we should choose either Punctured Soul and keep hunting for stray XP or Lingering Exhaustion and rest while doing socials. If we can't, then Lingering Exhaustion is obviously bad and we should either take Punctured Soul and keep hunting for stray XP or True Maiming and do the same. True Maiming is the best complication for the immediate term, but extends into the future in a really risky area. I think we have to withdraw from the Temple for now, at least, and recover while incorporating our new power. To that end, being slightly weaker for a month is less risky than being Tired when Apocryphal comes back online, and lets us do useful things in the interim. Lowered mental and social attributes are a problem, but less of one. Plus, I think Punctured Soul is the option that's not intolerably bad for either withdrawing or pushing onwards. If we have to push onwards, due to the threat of Ber, then I don't want to take an option who's reversal will always be beaten out by other votes, as shown in the past.
Power:
-Echo: Stats. Probably worse than Quickening buffs are, even given that Quickening buffs are flesh body only. But we didn't even go ghost this time!
-Dominion: Not amazing for immediate power, but a step towards Ruling Ring. Which might be a good idea if True Maiming wins.
-Fierce Quickening: Stats. Taking
-Vigor Itself: Noticing the color, do we have this because of the power we got from the Fish we caught? That's a pretty cool thing. The toss up between the two might come down to which is more useful mitigation-wise. If I'm sticking with Punctured Soul, is it better to get +Charisma to mitigate the really bad social debuff, or leave that as a lost cause and get +Wits to mitigate the mental one?
-Augment Dominion: Taking this twice with another 1-pick seems strictly worse than just taking Kinslayer, so this would be part of a build with a free space. But I think it frankly doesn't compete with the pure stats picks either. Maybe in a build that takes Punctured Soul without taking Kinslayer or another 4-cost, but I don't think so.
-Opalescence: +Protection is strictly inferior to the ++/+ stats from the Blood picks.
-Iridescence: Not a bad place to spend 2 Arete. Does this not require taking even one Opalescence anymore? Might be a good pick for a build that has a free space, seeing as protective and antimagic stats are good hedges against the sorts of things that'd come after us during our recovery.
-Ruinous Valor: Straight power, made crazy good by synergy with Thousand Cuts and Fall of Night. Taking it might move us towards stances too, which are pretty great, seeing as they add a bunch of power while only costing Arete. We could theoretically take them without getting into much further danger.
-Inheritor: Crazy high magic system value, at the cost of a little Arete, a lot of XP, a defining advancement slot, and ++mental contamination. Definitively extremely strong, but the mental contamination is really, really undesirable. I assume that we would be taking The Unerring or The Correspondent, due to the Librarian being an asshole. (Seemingly confirms that the guy we spared still died, lmao.) If we get Azure Moon, would we be able to replicate the Soul Evocation combo that Amarlt did? Given the name of the option, I think that's the intention. The Unerring Imprisoner? The Correspondent Imprisoner? One can only wonder.
-Kinslayer: Crazy good, in my opinion. Rank is the godstat, and this is a lot of it. Makes our Ring bonuses more viable, too, because the .25 is building on top of a higher base.
-Uttermost: Devastating power, at the cost of permanently leaving the Tyrant's Doom unmitigated and consuming Form of Rage, as well as a bunch of stats taking a permanent hit. I'm going to have to go with no. Losing Luck and Protection value is really shitty for us, and taking the permanent hit of not being able to mitigate Tyrant's Doom at all is really incredibly stupid and short sighted. No.
-Stranglethorn: We've talked about this. Only truly necessary if you are dead set on True Maiming.
I think that it's between Kinslayer and Ruinous Valor/Quickening for me. I'd also be willing to accept Stranglethorn, if it were truly necessary, but I find the drawbacks of Unerring and Inheritor to be unacceptable and won't be convinced to support them. I am open to being convinced in favor of another vote that doesn't involve those two.
These are being stacked on top of the complication we already have.
-Punctured Soul: Difficult but temporary reduction. More like a setback, honestly, as we could theoretically drop back down to the way we were hunting earlier and still get some advancements. This might allow us to garner more XP through safe farming in the Outer or nearby outside the Temple. Though it would probably have to be outside. I can hardly imagine that after defeating Amarlt, going into most of the Temple will be safe, especially as they seem to have a way to track temple enterers. Lasts a whole month and Apocryphal will be able to jump on top of it.
-True Maiming: Another severe permanent injury. Presumably something we could heal with the right advancement, though getting that advancement probably means getting Ruling Ring or being in more extremely dangerous scenarios, given that we don't have Scent of Prey to look for it. Losing Con and Con effectiveness is really bad, as health, healing, and general tankiness is the cornerstone of our ability to not be utterly fucked by the Apocryphal Curse. I'm weary of vulnerability to exotic vectors like poison and disease; there could easily be a Soul Evocation user who specializes along those lines, and we fight wild beasts all the time. A three day layback means that the severely vulnerable period is smaller, and we could still grind more in the space where Apocryphal is defrayed. But do note that this is actually kind of like losing 3 future XP to fix, so the value of taking it for further hunting is buttressed.
-Lingering Exhaustion: Forces us to rest through and beyond where Apocryphal will come around, at the cost of leaving us likely to be stuck in another exhaustion cycle due to an Apocryphal proc while we're tired. Allows us to avoid longer term penalties, but maybe gives them to us indirectly anyways.
I think this comes down to whether or not you think we can afford to withdraw from the Temple. If we can, then True Maiming is obviously bad and we should choose either Punctured Soul and keep hunting for stray XP or Lingering Exhaustion and rest while doing socials. If we can't, then Lingering Exhaustion is obviously bad and we should either take Punctured Soul and keep hunting for stray XP or True Maiming and do the same. True Maiming is the best complication for the immediate term, but extends into the future in a really risky area. I think we have to withdraw from the Temple for now, at least, and recover while incorporating our new power. To that end, being slightly weaker for a month is less risky than being Tired when Apocryphal comes back online, and lets us do useful things in the interim. Lowered mental and social attributes are a problem, but less of one. Plus, I think Punctured Soul is the option that's not intolerably bad for either withdrawing or pushing onwards. If we have to push onwards, due to the threat of Ber, then I don't want to take an option who's reversal will always be beaten out by other votes, as shown in the past.
Power:
-Echo: Stats. Probably worse than Quickening buffs are, even given that Quickening buffs are flesh body only. But we didn't even go ghost this time!
-Dominion: Not amazing for immediate power, but a step towards Ruling Ring. Which might be a good idea if True Maiming wins.
-Fierce Quickening: Stats. Taking
-Vigor Itself: Noticing the color, do we have this because of the power we got from the Fish we caught? That's a pretty cool thing. The toss up between the two might come down to which is more useful mitigation-wise. If I'm sticking with Punctured Soul, is it better to get +Charisma to mitigate the really bad social debuff, or leave that as a lost cause and get +Wits to mitigate the mental one?
-Augment Dominion: Taking this twice with another 1-pick seems strictly worse than just taking Kinslayer, so this would be part of a build with a free space. But I think it frankly doesn't compete with the pure stats picks either. Maybe in a build that takes Punctured Soul without taking Kinslayer or another 4-cost, but I don't think so.
-Opalescence: +Protection is strictly inferior to the ++/+ stats from the Blood picks.
-Iridescence: Not a bad place to spend 2 Arete. Does this not require taking even one Opalescence anymore? Might be a good pick for a build that has a free space, seeing as protective and antimagic stats are good hedges against the sorts of things that'd come after us during our recovery.
-Ruinous Valor: Straight power, made crazy good by synergy with Thousand Cuts and Fall of Night. Taking it might move us towards stances too, which are pretty great, seeing as they add a bunch of power while only costing Arete. We could theoretically take them without getting into much further danger.
-Inheritor: Crazy high magic system value, at the cost of a little Arete, a lot of XP, a defining advancement slot, and ++mental contamination. Definitively extremely strong, but the mental contamination is really, really undesirable. I assume that we would be taking The Unerring or The Correspondent, due to the Librarian being an asshole. (Seemingly confirms that the guy we spared still died, lmao.) If we get Azure Moon, would we be able to replicate the Soul Evocation combo that Amarlt did? Given the name of the option, I think that's the intention. The Unerring Imprisoner? The Correspondent Imprisoner? One can only wonder.
-Kinslayer: Crazy good, in my opinion. Rank is the godstat, and this is a lot of it. Makes our Ring bonuses more viable, too, because the .25 is building on top of a higher base.
-Uttermost: Devastating power, at the cost of permanently leaving the Tyrant's Doom unmitigated and consuming Form of Rage, as well as a bunch of stats taking a permanent hit. I'm going to have to go with no. Losing Luck and Protection value is really shitty for us, and taking the permanent hit of not being able to mitigate Tyrant's Doom at all is really incredibly stupid and short sighted. No.
-Stranglethorn: We've talked about this. Only truly necessary if you are dead set on True Maiming.
I think that it's between Kinslayer and Ruinous Valor/Quickening for me. I'd also be willing to accept Stranglethorn, if it were truly necessary, but I find the drawbacks of Unerring and Inheritor to be unacceptable and won't be convinced to support them. I am open to being convinced in favor of another vote that doesn't involve those two.
[X] Punctured Soul
[X] Feat: Kinslayer
Don't talk to me about anti-synergy, I already know. The anti-synergy of this seems less of a risk or debt than either of the others.
Last edited:
