[X] Search for Humans
[X] Bring Gisena
[X] Root and Branch

[X] Strong Sword-Arm

Realized that Sweep isn't going to win, but I'll settle for Search instead of Push.
Being able to princess carry Gisena will no doubt be a tactical nuke of CHA importance when interacting with others.
 
I like that after getting tremendously lucky and killing something that hilariously outmatched us by rolling incredibly well, so many people decided to double down and pick an option that barely improves our combat abilities. We're going to waste a 4 pick opportunity on two copies of echoes and 0.2 rank?

Because that's a significant boost, and it ups the chances of Search for Humans working out in our favor. I think you're underestimating how good +0.2 Rank is. Out-ranking something by enough allows us to trivially ignore it regardless of physical stats.
 
If Apex unlocks a defining advancement it's worth it, considering what Advancement would be related to something named Apex?
 
Out-ranking something by enough allows us to trivially ignore it regardless of physical stats.

This takes a long time to happen however. Equal stat blocks mean we need +1 rank to win 90% of the time, considering that each increment of Rank is much more valuable than the last a large proportion of that victory percentage probably comes from the last .2 rank or so. If Apex wins we need to hope we can get ring options to immediately buy up something like Double War to make the build viable.
 
This takes a long time to happen however. Equal stat blocks mean we need +1 rank to win 90% of the time, considering that each increment of Rank is much more valuable than the last a large proportion of that victory percentage probably comes from the last .2 rank or so. If Apex wins we need to hope we can get ring options to immediately buy up something like Double War to make the build viable.
Or the defining advancement people are right and it unlocks a powerful one, perhaps with a less problematic drawback than stranglethorn.
 
As we close in on 14 Arete, the appeal of Apex has grown on me. I'll keep my main vote on Root and Branch, but I'll switch my approval vote to Apex to help make sure it keeps its lead over Rune King.

[X] Search for Humans
[X] Bring Gisena
[X] Root and Branch
[X] Apex
 
So I had this weird realization about what our character build currently falls into. You know Valeria Trifa from Dies Irae? Simultaneous devotee and would be traitor to Reinhard, has his nigh indestructible current body as Reinhard's Vessel, stores the Lance Of Longinus inside his body with magic. He's got ludicrous speed but so do all the other Knights of the Obsidian Round Table. He's also a super charismatic mad schemer but his offense leaves something to be desired/can't compete in the big leagues. Sure in some routes he manages to scheme his way into getting Reinhard(Ascended to demigod status and presumed dead by mundane society, potentially analogous to the Forebear as a Hidden Master in the worst case scenario) and Mercurius to kill each other, but the fact he's so dependent on Reinhard's stuff in the end is what gets him subject to unpleasant fates for rebelling.

There was a Mercenary company called the Apex Predators in Titanfall 2 that the protagonist killed.
 
Omake: The Mountains of Reflection (~1500 Words)

Hunger's ghostly form stepped lightly, gliding over the grassy hills with a smooth motion that contrasted the intense speed with which he moved. He had managed to secure the end of several knights so far, kiting them away from the others and neatly, gradually macerating each one into junk. However, his last attempt had led to him being maneuvered into an ambush.

He had desperately dodged through the sequence of swinging swords, bleeding spirit-stuff, before dashing away to safety. Now, as he pulled away from any and all threats, he marveled at the change in his translucent bod. He just felt...light.

Perhaps the ease with which he shed his mortal shell was more the hatching of an egg than the cracking of one, a movement beyond the endless heaviness of being that the Forebear's Blade normally seemed to impose. He had long since accepted it; the dread nature of such an artifact carried an inescapably real weight as a necessary component of its potency. Stealing the power of another was also taking on some of their nature, guiding meaning into a similarity between two legends. That was the trick of Abduction that he retained, despite losing the knack. And, if there was any aspect the two of them most shared, it was the weight of the world.

As if to physically escape the way his thoughts were turning, he began to push the limits of his enriched spirit. Soft ghost-light grew into a full effulgence as he moved at greater speeds, recovery and power intertwining faster and faster, until he seemed to be a smeared streak of baleful ghostfire lancing through the air. Unbound, the joy of speed pulled him across the open, green fields and through blue skies. Grassy hills rolled to greater and greater heights, becoming foothills and valleys that he bounded through, the blue sky gradually darkening, large masses of cloud blowing in. Large standing stones and irregular silvery boulders lay scattered across the new geography, forcing Hunger to abandon his straight sprint, slowing as he navigated.

That's when he was attacked by a bolt of living lightning.

----

Two lines drew themselves across the rocky landscape. From above, the clashes resembled a meandering sequence of closed figures, sides looping and arcing apart, but always inevitably returning to one another.

Hunger leapt in, his arm lashing out, a whip of flesh and steel that brushed through the snake of light. Steel and force did nothing to the plasma, but the power of Ruin left small lasting rents. He was barely keeping up in terms of pace, but was still managing to outsmart the beast, maneuvering it like a matador so he could strike at the same length of hide each time.

The snake's superior speed let it come around again and again to aim it's jaws at him, but this exposed a weakness. Hunger allowed it to approach, holding the Forebear's Blade out in front of him. At the moment of impact, he suddenly became intangible, allowing just the edge of the blade to remain solid. The momentum of the snake itself pulled the ruinous point through the weakened section of hide, opening it. His blade severed all the way down through its flesh in a long rent, flaying it. The snake halves shrieked as they separated and seemed to swell, before bursting into a wave of electricity that Hunger allowed to harmlessly pass through him.

He looked around.

----
X Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
X Conjunctional [Evening Sky + Forebear's Blade] - Paraselene
X Into the Hills

----

Slowly, as Hunger hopped across the gaps between hills, the landscape changed. The horizon shimmered and distorted, rocky foothills growing and the valleys deepening, leading upwards to a wide, odd range of glittering silvery mountains a mile high. The fake sun in the sky was setting behind them into an obscured evening sky.

As he drew closer to the mountainside, he noticed that it was not simply silver. Most of its surface was churning and changing, a constantly metamorphosing bas-relief mural, like an ocean of mercury had risen out of deep cracks in the earth, alive and reaching for something to confirm its existence. Thin lines and globs of liquid metal formed into odd replicas of ordinary plants and animals near the edge. These came into being in a second, changed a dozen times, exiting and reentering the greater mountain with no issue or fanfare. A line of wasteland along the odd temporary ecosystem prevented it from actually encountering any sort of actual living being, however, as if the real vegetation that had previously been there was wiped away.

Crossing into the wasteland, the mountain seemed to sense his presence. Waves of foreign Pressure buffeted him as the metal in the area fell to the ground and spread, into flat puddles. All grew still and mirror-like, a thousand reflections of him surrounding him. Slowly, one by one, the piles receded into the mountainside, until all were gone.

A figure began to push its way out from the mass, a bipedal shape faintly mimicking him, cloaked and one-armed, holding a piece of itself shaped like a broken blade. But as it separated fully, it shifted, growing another arm as the cloak vanished, the blade becoming a thin rapier. Its boiling surface settled into features, a parody of his own, slightly refined and cleaner, unscarred and two-eyed. It wore a set of dark robes, loosely, as if without a care. A wreath of wedding flowers cast in metal sat atop its head, and it's mouth opened.

"Hello, failure." it said.

Hunger stepped back, eye widening.

"What are you?" he said, hand tightening around his weapon's grip.

"I'm an echo. I'm a possibility. I'm a mirror, and I'm the end you've always sought."

Hunger snarled in return.

The fake Hunger smiled, an indulgent thing that could be called a smirk if it were less pristine.
"I'm you. I'm the you who didn't lose, didn't fail. Didn't falter, didn't let others suffer for your weakness."

It's face stuttered for a moment, shifting into the face of his wife, which melted to something halfway between, then back into his own, still set in that awful expression.

Hunger's gaze narrowed and he grit his teeth. "You're not me," he said, "just something this place has conjured to torment me."

The construct tilted its head.

"Not merely to torture you," It said. "After all, haven't I managed to provoke a reaction? Don't you think...it might be time to acknowledge that you'll never succeed? Not at vengeance, and certainly not at keeping them safe." It began to pace back and forth, never taking its eyes off of him. A pair of vicious, cold eyes. The eyes of a Ruling King, a Tyrant.

"Not like I could. We both know your desperate efforts aren't enough." It threw back its head and let out a dry bark of laughter. "When were they ever enough? No, better to cede the job to me."

Hunger's body clenched, every muscle tightening with tension.

The construct sighed. "Don't worry, I'll take care of your little friends outside too. I'm sure Gisena will notice, but I'm such an improvement over you that she won't mind at all."

A terrifying sense of distortion and bending Pressure emerged from it, forcing him back. He drew himself into a closed stance, his mantle of sky seeming to sparkle with the light of distant stars, an aureole of burning ghostfire hanging behind his head like his own personal winter halo. A spirit without flesh, perhaps weaker, but also perhaps clarified.

The construct raised its hand, the one he was missing, in a come-hither motion.

"Well then, failure," it mocked, "care to face The Hero's Reflection?"

Hunger lunged forwards.

----

In this one he takes Stragglers and Swift as Death, then has a different high-roll encounter and a different strong advancement. And then a really high roll encounter, damn.

A Hungry Ghost in the Mountains of Madness!

I find myself going back and rereading updates for details doing omakes. It's actually quite good at solidifying my impressions in a way that isn't immediately distorted by the chaotic tribulation of relevant build votes.

Also, holy shit, anyone remember when we thought Might's Repose was going to be immediately relevant? In retrospect, it's one of those things that makes timeskips much more productive, but is less important when we're playing such a close-in, intense and continuous dungeon challenge. Zooming into such a bit-by-bit pace for much of the quest is making our Arete gains much, much proportionally higher than they would be otherwise. Hats off to Rihaku for having the stamina to DM through such a thing! True hero.

Been holding this idea in my pocket due to being busy with moving, but I finally had time to complete it. Thankfully. Any way I can avoid Rune King is worth some effort. My life is controlled by anxiety, better to keep up the recent trend of confronting it with effort than return to avoidance.

[X] Push in Further
[X] Strong Sword-Arm
[X] Don't Bring Gisena


My opposition to Rune King noted and still standing, I'd like to use my vote and this omake power for this option exclusively, given that it has a chance of winning.
 
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This takes a long time to happen however. Equal stat blocks mean we need +1 rank to win 90% of the time, considering that each increment of Rank is much more valuable than the last a large proportion of that victory percentage probably comes from the last .2 rank or so. If Apex wins we need to hope we can get ring options to immediately buy up something like Double War to make the build viable.

Not really? Rihaku himself said that Triple Echo + Thousand Cuts would be safer than Zweihander, since the latter is vulnerable to stuff it couldn't kill the fuck out of and Apex is one 7 Arete cost away from being basically just that. Moreover, it really doesn't matter what we get since both Stats and Rank are compatible with anything, we don't have to hope for a specific option.

And this is just talking about combat. It's also better in navigation, social interaction, loot finding, puzzle solving, underwater basket weaving and pretty much everything else that isn't direct, immediate offensive power.

Unfair, maybe. But such is the nature of a godstat.

Or the defining advancement people are right and it unlocks a powerful one, perhaps with a less problematic drawback than stranglethorn.

If that's the case, you might want to just switch to pure Apex. Ruinous Valour has been quite a common advancement thus far but a Feat like Apex seems like a one and done thing, especially given the ridiculous series of rolls we needed to get it. Besides, it's not like Apex can't take Thousand Cuts and have a still decent level of offense while having a better baseline than Zweihander.
 
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If that's the case, you might want to just switch to pure Apex. Ruinous Valour has been quite a common advancement thus far but a Feat like Apex seems like a one and done thing, especially given the ridiculous series of rolls we needed to get it. Besides, it's not like Apex can't take Thousand Cuts and have a still decent level of offense while having a better baseline than Zweihander.
I suppose Apex is in the lead now.

But do I want to gamble?

Screw it.

[x] Apex
 
Not really? Rihaku himself said that Quadruple Echo + Thousand Cuts would be safer than Zweihander, since the latter is vulnerable to stuff it couldn't kill the fuck out of and Apex is one 7 Arete cost away from being basically just that. Moreover, it really doesn't matter what we get since both Stats and Rank are compatible with anything, we don't have to hope for a specific option.
Double echo is not quad echo.
 
Or the defining advancement people are right and it unlocks a powerful one, perhaps with a less problematic drawback than stranglethorn.

I find that rather farfetched, there seems to be something of a strain of though that 4-picks are things we can just casually browse through them at the market and pick one up at our leisure, so we have to be worried about hitting the 3 total limit, and need to carefully select each one. I found that to be the wrong way to think about them, we were extremely lucky to get Stranglethorn unlocked and available to us here and shouldn't count on another one. Maybe we get in another fight with a suitable epic monster and kill it, unlocking a different advancement. Sure that's possible, it's not something I would ever want to hinge a strategy on though. As we're instead just quite likely to die to such a monster, as by definition to unlock a 4 pick it has to be an unfavorable contest for us.

People seem to have sort of radicalized themselves against Stranglethorn which is a bit baffling to me. The drawback is not particularly problematic at all honestly. It's been extremely inflated in significance, and thoughts that another Defining advancement is going to have equal value but a less significant flaw seem the epitome of wishful thinking to me.

Not really? Rihaku himself said that Quadruple Echo + Thousand Cuts would be safer than Zweihander, since the latter is vulnerable to stuff it couldn't kill the fuck out of and Apex is one 7 Arete cost away. Moreover, it really doesn't matter what we get since both Stats and Rank are compatible with anything.

I'm not sure what you're driving at here? Yes a scaling option will do well if you assume it will get the future resources it will scale off. Stranglethorn or Rune King would be the favorite options if that's your criteria. If you mean that an Apex build will do better than a sword arm build after its had the chance to spend 7 arete on cuts. That's not really provable one way or the other, as it depends entirely on the scenario the spending opportunity is generated from. I'd say it's unlikely though. Sword is the purest near term focus option available, it's going to on average generate the most immediate progress, it'll take a while for an incrementalist approach to overtake it if it ever does in most cases.
 
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Tally incoming:
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on Jun 8, 2020 at 9:27 PM, finished with 616 posts and 67 votes.
 
How the tides change! The two most advocated for options at the beginning of the vote are now the bottom two (excepting Sharp of Eye, of course).
 
Update in 30-40. Here, have a nice preview!

[ ] The Dreadbeast - Fearsome as the hill-eater wurm was, it seems a meagre threat indeed before the heaven-shaking dreadbeast, whose scream of cold command shatters steel and chills the marrow, whose hoofbeats are rolling thunder, whose claws are scythes, whose maw is a furnace, slabs of its armor like a living mountainside. Unstoppable or invisible at its leisure, the spray of its blood ropey tendrils which ensnare and bind, with the cleverness of three men and the cunning of nine.

*A Rank 5 monstrosity with semi-axiomatic strength or invisibility, very high speed, mortifying claws that inflict cursed wounds of rot and decay, a scream attack that deals heavy cold damage and destroys mundane equipment, a continuous breath attack that deals heavy fire damage to those within melee range facing its maw, an aoe bind effect that strikes those within the range of its blood when spilled, and the durability of a large mountain. Superhumanly cunning and deceptive, with a mastery of ensnarement and manipulation that verges on the supernal, but pathologically incapable of withdrawing once engaged.
 
[ ] The Dreadbeast - Fearsome as the hill-eater wurm was, it seems a meagre threat indeed before the heaven-shaking dreadbeast, whose scream of cold command shatters steel and chills the marrow, whose hoofbeats are rolling thunder, whose claws are scythes, whose maw is a furnace, slabs of its armor like a living mountainside. Unstoppable or invisible at its leisure, the spray of its blood ropey tendrils which ensnare and bind, with the cleverness of three men and the cunning of nine.

*A Rank 5 monstrosity with semi-axiomatic strength or invisibility, very high speed, mortifying claws that inflict cursed wounds of rot and decay, a scream attack that deals heavy cold damage and destroys mundane equipment, a continuous breath attack that deals heavy fire damage to those within melee range facing its maw, an aoe bind effect that strikes those within the range of its blood when spilled, and the durability of a large mountain. Superhumanly cunning and deceptive, with a mastery of ensnarement and manipulation that verges on the supernal, but pathologically incapable of withdrawing once engaged.
that's- that feels as hopeless for us to fight as The Monarch was in Enoch
We just seem to fundamentally not be in its league?
 
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