I wouldn't say it carried us through the Temple-- if our Constitution were just a bit lower, we'd be very dead right now (or proc Form of Rage). Why not become a huge fucking tanklord, and just never die?
If we had taken Swift Death we would have destroyed the Wurm and be at full health right now.

Stranglethorn is just much more dangerous. Imagine we face off against a Wurm like foe again, a high Con doesn't stop it from just eating us, Agility does.

When we are weak after using Form of Rage Dreadnought Ameliorates the downside. With Stranglethorn you would be both lacking Rank from Tired and less able to run away from less Agility.

So much is made of Strangle's potential because of its stat doubling, but it doubles str and con which are probably more early game stats, the rank plus is nice but boring. The willpower doubling will be good eventually, that part is true.
 
[X] Push in Further
[X] Dreadnought - Echo, Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Rune King
[X] Strong Sword-Arm

Though I originally voted for Rune King to be honest I really would rather have strong sword or apex they just did seem to be gathering much enthusiasm and I didn't like them as much as the Hallow.

As to the ethics of healing or not healing I must say I see merits to both emotionally speaking. One thing I think we should all keep in mind is that while we know a rough overview of Hunger's past we do not know everything of how he feels about it or what his scars mean to him. I do not think we can just assume that his injuries are regarded purely with trauma without knowing precisely the circumstances behind how they happened. We do not know much of that other than that he has few if any hard feeling left for the tyrant who actually dealt the injuries. Perhaps he views the injuries as an important reminder as to his recklessness, as something to tell him to pull back when he is pushing beyond all reason, or perhaps he sees the people he saved in losing said organs, if only for a while. I do not think we should assume we know how Hunger feels about his injuries before we see said feeling through his eyes.

This being said people still have their own reasons for regarding his injuries one way or another whether they be practical, emotional, experiential, aesthetic, or grounded in ideology and all of these reasons are well reasonable. I feel that the one eyed aesthetic, combine with the great potential for magic is worth the trade off of an eye hunger has already lost and seems to have little attachment to anyways. I feel this because aesthetics aside, the gain in potential from this is directly relevant to hunger's goals. On the other hand I think having two arms is really great and useful even if it sacrifices raw power and although I cannot say I really thought of it before now I do have the experience of only really having access to one hand for around a week or two when I dislocated my arm at the elbow in a bouldering accident (I was in a car because for a little while after the injury it seemed like my joint had relocated but then it dislocated itself again and the hospital though it was for the best to immobilize it) at a climbing gym a couple of years ago though I suppose the situation is not quite the same as having lost an arm completely. Perhaps it is because I don't have a similar experience with my eyes that I do not have similar feelings about rune king vs sharp eyes.

Just my thoughts on this matter, I hope that others will consider them.

I am mostly in favor of sword arm though I could potentially be persuaded to Stranglethorn or perhaps even sharp eyes (though that's a stretch for me at the moment).
 
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Seems like there's a strong contingent of voters whose second choice is Strong Sword-Arm! Interesting that Einhander's not an option, the constitution boost would've paired very well with Vanguard and made Ruinous Valor less of a glass cannon, offsetting the risks of combining it with Push. Still, there are worse fates than becoming the One (Fell) Punch Man.

It makes sense, really. Sword-arm is basically the default "neutral" option of vastly increased attack without the heavy debate that's plaguing Dreadnaught.

Unlike Dradnaught not a single person voted for Einhander iirc, so it was excluded entirely.

Taking Stranglethorn is a dangerous option! Agility carried us through the Temple and now you want to debuff it? You are taking the riskiest option you match it with Push.

Vote Rune King and Sweep now! Grow stronger and farm those sweet magic systems!
I mean Stranglethorn still leaves us slightly above the Agi we had when we entered the Temple. We aren't sacrificing a ton of it.
 
He's sacrificing a fragment of the Progression which would otherwise allow him to heal his eye in time, in exchange for the power To Shatter Heaven

>sacrificing a fragment of Progression
>flashbacks to giving up some of our potential and Amplitude/Diminishment for Sorcery

oh no

oh no no no I don't know what do now

Bring Gisena obviously since we need to do some science on the calling plus nullity and she's better at social. Plus with vanguard we can throw her at our enemies to distract them.

Root and Branch because it's the only option that takes Vanguard and Stranglethorn is pretty potent as well! Lots of stats for us and our companions plus being a lord is part of our title so we should probably work on that.

guh I just switched away from these and now I want them again

help I don't know what do
 
[22] Dreadnought - Echo, Dreadnought's Bearing
-[17] Rune King
-[5] Sharp Eyes
[19] Root and Branch
[16] Strong Sword-Arm
[7] Apex

Looks like Dreadnought is winning but the eyes are splitting the vote
Adhoc vote count started by Byzantine on Jun 8, 2020 at 12:47 AM, finished with 183 posts and 49 votes.
 
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To anyone interested who is currently not voting to bring Gisena I'm willing to trade votes in other quests for a vote to bring Gisena with us!
Yikes, I really recommend you not do this. It's seen as bad form to have others come in and vote just to help a vote win. If Rihaku is fine with vote trading in his quest that's one thing, but to force it upon other QMs and threads isn't right.
 
[X] Sweep the Outskirts
[X] Bring Gisena

[X] Dreadnought
-[X] Rune King
[X] Strong Sword-Arm


personally I consider the synergy and option Rune King will offer to be worth far to much to comfortably pass up, and Dreadnought mitigates one of the problems of Form of Rage.
 
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Yikes, I really recommend you not do this. It's seen as bad form to have others come in and vote just to help a vote win. If Rihaku is fine with vote trading in his quest that's one thing, but to force it upon other QMs and threads isn't right.
Apparently it's fine by board rules? I follow a bunch of quests anyway even if only lurking so I don't see the issue?
 
[X] Sweep the Outskirts
[X] Don't Bring Gisena

[X] Dreadnought
-[X] Rune King


personally I consider the synergy and option Rune King will offer to be worth far to much to comfortably pass up, and Dreadnought mitigates one of the problems of Form of Rage.
We're doing 2-option approval voting right now. Rihaku was convinced to try it again after the Dreadnought and Stranglethorn contingents both noted they had a second pick but were deeply opposed to letting the other win.

Apparently it's fine by board rules? I follow a bunch of quests anyway even if only lurking so I don't see the issue?
It is not against the rules but can be seen as bad form.
 
Bleh. I feel like cassandra.

Two passionate votes so far and I lost the first and feel doomed here even while marginally ahead because that didn't matter last time.
 
Vote for Stranglethorn and Gisena and I'll vote for whatever you want the next three votes as long as it keeps Gisena flush with screentime!
Unfortunately, I'm a very flip-floppy person and rarely feel strongly about a vote unless it's Chrysopoeia/JUSTICE/Destroyer Halo/fundamental changes to character design -related, I'm afraid giving me votes will rarely be effective, but thank you for offering?

I might still flop back over of my own motivation anyway

edit: also dont u lol at my indecision reehakooooooo
 
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Again, we're not even losing all the Agi we picked up in our first fight in the Temple. We aren't suddenly becoming slugs.
Obviously not, but we're losing one and probably losing options and tactics that utilize it in the long term. Rihaku makes Stranglethorn's effect on us clear.

Just remember, combat is not determined by the number of +Stats you have, but also by how they are distributed. There are many situations where Agi is more important than STR or CON, or even more important than STR and CON. Before rushing into Stranglethorn, make sure you want to lean into the concept of a character who is slow but powerful, with all the advantages and downsides that entails.
Despite the many times speed has been referenced in these and previous fight scenes, I don't think you guys have fully internalized how bad being slower is. It's not a crippling reduction, but it is a drag on your future speed both pragmatically and in terms of opportunity cost. Either you'll avoid +Agi because it's inefficient, falling further behind, or be forced to spend lots of picks on +Agi to maintain parity. This is to balance out the incredible benefits Stranglethorn offers otherwise. Yes, it's very strong. But you guys should have clear expectations about what will happen to your speed and not try to downplay it.
 
Obviously not, but we're losing one and probably losing options and tactics that utilize it in the long term. Rihaku makes Stranglethorn's effect on us clear.
What?

The very quotes you just quoted show that we aren't losing options or tactics that use it. Any such loss would be our decision, not because it stops being offered.

I just... Are we reading the same thing?
 
Mm, he's not sacrificing the eye itself, that's already gone. He's sacrificing a fragment of the Progression which would otherwise allow him to heal his eye in time, in exchange for the power To Shatter Heaven.
I know, it just doesn't really... feel, like there's much weight to the decision to take Rune King, in the form that it currently exists. It's subjective interpretation, so it's one of those things that can't really be reasoned with, it just... it isn't very cool to me, I guess.
 
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Bleh. I feel like cassandra.

Two passionate votes so far and I lost the first and feel doomed here even while marginally ahead because that didn't matter last time.

Welcome to my world. I called the importance of Azure Moon as a panic button, offered markers for it, and the vote right afterwards we needed to get some means of healing Letrezia because nobody took it. At least my omake for how the Temple of the False Moon works isn't going exactly as I depicted. Sure we've got form of rage but we aren't traveling inside with both Gisena and Letrezia, so the main question is whether or not I called the False Moon being an analogue to Atropus the Elder Evil from DnD 3.5.
 
Unfortunately, I'm a very flip-floppy person and rarely feel strongly about a vote unless it's Chrysopoeia/JUSTICE/Destroyer Halo/fundamental changes to character design -related, I'm afraid giving me votes will rarely be effective, but thank you for offering?

I might still flop back over of my own motivation anyway

edit: also dont u lol at my indecision reehakooooooo
If it helps even if push wins and we end up taking Gisena it's not that bad! With Gisena around we're more likely to trigger form of Rage when we need to instead of Hunger deciding it isn't dramatically appropriate and just dying!
 
The Dreadnought's best suited to fighting on the wake of a Form of Rage proc; if I haven't bungled the math, we'd ignore 87.5% of Tired and 56.25% of Exhausted. Valuable, given the thread's proclivities. More constitution also gives us time to get good and angry about who or whatever's burned through that much of our health by the time we're ready for Form of Rage.

Also, the tripled stats on our final form'll make that thing laughably hard to kill. We've thought a lot about how the more conventional stats interact with the multiplier, but it applies to the likes of intelligence as well! We don't just fight harder, we fight smarter. And then there's charisma, we've got... +4, currently? 5 if Sharp makes the cut? A +12 bonus is getting into supernatural terror territory.
 
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