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A Simple Transaction I

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Rihaku said:
It only grants CON, Protection and regeneration, no AGI, since AGI can easily be used offensively. Still a great ability of course!
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Interesting, thanks for the clarification.

While it doesn't grant AGI, do the defenses it provides partially scale off of our AGI? My understanding was that it provided protections to our companions roughly "equal to our own" across all our stats and relevant abilities, and AGI does have a pretty big defensive value to go along with its offensive one.
 
Reaction, word count once I libreoffice(Edit: 644 Words)

Rihaku said:
Cutting Through


Even possessed of superhuman strength and speed, putting down the wurm was the brutal work of an hour, and digging free of its underground tomb several long minutes more. His wraithflesh was wreathed in sickly-gray acid burns, and the contours of his ghostly outline had grown faint and uneven, but in the end he'd prevailed, reaping a solid bounty of power from his victory. He could only hope that no further monstrosities intercepted him on his way back to the antechamber.
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Ouch from a time standpoint. It's pretty Doomslayeresque and cool from that standpoint though. Rip and tear until it is done, it reminds me of a bit of holy text from the Doomslayer Religion in the Exitium Eternal fanfiction, presented at the threadmark titled B1-V2: REVELATIONS / TERROR (II).

Rihaku said:
Luck, or perhaps merely the wariness of the Temple denizens, was with him this evening, as he returned to that marble-lined hall without further incident. For all that he was badly injured, it had been a singularly productive day, and in the morning he would be whole and hale again to start anew.
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Agreed. Second Stage is definitely making itself useful.

Rihaku said:
Hunger made his way past the comforting radiance of the braziers, up to the great gates which barred his way out, and saw that the moon-sign hung upon the steel was nearly filled. He sat down on the unyielding tile, basking in the antechamber's welcoming warmth, and allowed himself to slip briefly into reverie.
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For some reason this brought the Witcher/Geralt of Rivia and how he meditates to mind. Also clanking sound effects like it's Dark Souls, possibly bonfires too I dunno.

Rihaku said:
He was torn on whether their coming to this Temple had been a mistake. The inhabitants of this unnatural place were fearsome opponents, well beyond his own level at the start of the day, and it was only by grit, cunning, and the all-killing power of his Blade that he'd prevailed today. Would it be wiser to retreat, despite the impairment of the false moon's Calling, content with the strength he'd gained today?
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Probably? Doesn't mean now is the time to invoke sunk cost fallacy though.

Rihaku said:
Perhaps. But it was not within him to yield so easily. A decade of stubborn insurgency against the Tyrant had seared his psyche with hatred and determination in equal measure. He was fully aware of that, but felt no need to change his essential nature. To give up now merely because the threat was dire would be a refutation of everything he was, the personal legend that comprised his supernal shadow, his much-vaunted "Astral Rank." Faced with a threat like this, he could only rise to the occasion or die trying. To cut through, even if the problem could not be cut.
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In the act of cutting you shall attain Royalty, Lord Hunger. Shatter the Gods and Topple their Thrones, hubris is a cowards word, yadda yadda yadda.


Rihaku said:
But that did not entail a wholesale rejection of strategic thinking. That he had resolved to finish the matter was one thing; how he chose to go about it was another entirely. In his war against the Tyrant there had been countless fewer sallies than withdrawals, countless fewer triumphs than bitter retreats.
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Rune King improves our Strategic thinking, makes us super tanky with that echo of the forebear we can get with it, etc. The main question is how long until we get a new magic system like Azure Moon?

Rihaku said:
The moon-gauge on the doors had come full. He rose, and raised his hand to the ponderous gates, ring-light blazing. As if in response to his will, deep gears whirring in the walls, the doors opened with a click, revealing the empty plain beyond, bathed in the light of the stars. He stepped out, and the Calling intensified, strobe of the humming with nearly-painful urgency. Grimacing, he put it out of mind and walked forth.


Letrizia was parked several kilometers away, in a small outcropping next to a grove of rugged, sinewy trees. She and Gisena were having a mid-evening picnic, ration bars illuminated by campfire and temple-grasped moon.
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We need to make for civilization or hunt to restock on supplies soon, this looks like.

Rihaku said:
"You're hurt!" Gisena rose, coming to his side. He'd wrapped himself in the Evening Sky to conceal the worst of his wounds, but perhaps there was no hiding from her Sorcerous sight.
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He'll be back to normal the next day, no need to worry.

Rihaku said:
"It's manageable," he dismissed, waving off her concern. "More importantly, I'm hungry. Do we have any fish left?"


"Just a little!" Letrizia said, taking a thin sliver of smoked meat from the picnic basket. She stared at it pleadingly, as if willing it to multiply before her plaintive gaze.
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We definitely need to get more food for us soon. Seriously. This almost makes me want to retreat to replenish the party food supplies seeing this.

Rihaku said:
"Barely a mouthful," he scoffed. "Shall we split it?"



"Okay!" Letrizia delightedly cut the meat into thirds, quickly swallowing her own portion. She smiled contentedly, luxuriating in the taste. Faintly salivating, a forlorn expression crossed her face as she remembered there was no more.
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We really should have made for civilization, or hailed the outpost, or something.

Rihaku said:
"Say aaaah, hun!" Gisena teased, sandwiching her portion between finger and thumb and presenting it to him.


He raised an eyebrow. "If you're offering."


He ate it swiftly, before she could retract or protest. King fish meat was too valuable to be wasted.


Gisena giggled. "So greedy! How do things taste in spirit form?"
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I don't have anything to say about this that I haven't already said several times over...

Rihaku said:
"I am called Hunger," he shrugged. "And they taste mostly the same. A bit lighter, more delicate. The ghostflame is replicating the effects of my physical body, or I would be mostly incorporeal."


"Hmm, how boring."



"You're one to talk about powers that are boring, Miss Nullity Sorceress."
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Yeah, until she finds more esoteric uses of her power antimagic/nullification is kind of just a wet blanket power. Let's teach her Sealing. Or Ordinalism, or something.


Rihaku said:
"It's Lady Nullity to you, Lord Hunger!" Playfully she huffed, turning her face. "And I'll have you know, I don't need powers that are wondrous to make something extraordinary!"


"I believe you." He said, looking up at the stars. "If we live through this, then someday, you'll make great things."
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We just have to reach the Human Sphere first and then you can live out all your technology isekai trash fantasies Gisena, maybe found an analogue to Aperture Science.


Rihaku said:
"Aww, you!" She hugged his arm, laying her head on his shoulder. "I like this ghostly form of yours. It's much nicer than your real body!"



"As you said. I'm vulnerable to dispellation right now."


Would he be able to build great things as well, one day? Or had the funnel of his experiences shaped him only into a destroyer? It was an illogical fear, now that the power of Progression was open to him. But for some reason he couldn't quite shake it. Even having gained this power, most of what he'd done with it was to make himself a more perfect killer. And if the greater part of that had been necessity, still there'd been the element of desire as well. The power to hurt others was also the power to protect them; that was one lesson of countless that Blade and Tyrant had imparted to him.
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Of course you will. You just need a crafting based magic system to get started. Getting good enough to make great things necessitates you start making things.

Rihaku said:
Was that enough to justify strength of such magnitude, turned only to the power of murder? In his old Earth they'd feared the power of the atom bomb, a weapon so terrible as to threaten the end of war. Had the weight of that threat succeeded, or had they only destroyed themselves?
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Yeah, you just need a nice utility based magic system and all those neuroses of yours will melt away in an instant. Maybe you can even declare yourself a Philosopher King like Nameless didn't and ensure human affairs are governed by Wisdom, and merge with a Seed AI for good measure. There has to be some place in the Rihakuverse where magic hasn't killed Seed AIs.

Rihaku said:
Half a day ago the giant knights had been peer-level opponents. Now, having killed maybe a dozen of their number, he was their unambiguous superior. That was, as the Accursed had promised, growth beyond his wildest dreams, power beyond all reason, progression without plateaus or bottlenecks, the endless perfecting march against which neither law nor obstacle could stand for long. He was unaccountably lucky to have been chosen, unaccountably graced, but what did it mean for the Accursed to believe that power such as this was appropriate for him?
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I don't know, the Accursed has some standards for his cosmic lottery you fulfilled but in the end this is probably one of those lotteries nobody can actually deserve to win. You just win.

Rihaku said:
The hour was late. His body was weary, be it flesh or ghost. In the embrace of his cloak which mirrored the heavens above, he drifted off, dreaming of sword-light.
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Fairly reasonable thing to dream about I guess, better that than some of the things it could be, given Lord Hunger's history.



Rihaku said:
[X] Return to the Antechamber, has, obviously, won! The build vote has gone to consolidation below. What is the plan for tomorrow? 11 days of Apocryphal-free traversal remain.


[ ] Sweep the Outskirts - No need to move on too aggressively. Though you don't gain much from the knights anymore, it's clear there are greater creatures in the area immediately beyond the antechamber that you've yet to outscale. Until you are confident you've conquered the outskirts, there's no reason to push on unduly. And if you kill enough knights, surely you'll progress at least a little more... [+1-2 picks during next Experience spend, tactics will help]


[ ] Push in Further - Cut through, even if it cannot be cut. You will resolve this matter of the Calling as soon as humanly possible. There is a difference between discretion and cowardice. One can eschew the latter while keeping the former in mind. Else how could it be the better part of valor? [+0.5 Arete, +0.1 Rank, +?% chance of high-level Artifact, compounding advantage for each non-build red option further taken, tactics will help]


[ ] Search for Humans - Now that you've grown significantly in overall strength, it should be safer to interact with other humans even with the Doom looming over you. Worse comes to worst, you can always drive them off. It would interesting to get some context for this place, learn how the Calling affects those without a Ring of Power, and be made of aware of any traps you've not foreseen. [+?, +information?, tactics will help]
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I'm leaning towards Searching for humans right now, although you left the be out of "It would interesting", Rune King should help us get the information we need out of people. I guess I'm indecisive here at the moment.

Rihaku said:
As you're stronger now, you're confident you can keep Gisena safe against most of the monsters in the outskirts. You may bring her with you if you choose [ ] Sweep or [ ] Search, and will automatically bring her with you if a choice with Undying Vanguard is selected.


[ ] Bring Gisena - The power of dispellation, and a shrewd lady of the nobility whose social maneuvering may bring you advantage yet.


[ ] Don't Bring Gisena - Letrizia won't be as bored! [+Letrizia, +0.1 Arete]
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This is negotiable I guess, depending on whether or not we take push in further or not.

Rihaku said:
What was the shape of the power he gained from the hill-eater wurm? You're at 8.75 Arete, an impressive sum! All plans spend 7 Arete except for Apex, which spends none at all. Choose carefully, your decision here may determine the future of your strategy...


[ ] Dreadnought - Echo, Dreadnought's Bearing

-[ ] Rune King

-[ ] Sharp of Eye - But see below.


*Massively increases durability and resilience to physical status effects

*Importantly allows you to fight at somewhat optimal effectiveness while Exhausted, and nearly allows you to ignore Tiredness.

*In your current situation, Rune King would be recommended, as Sharp of Eye spends too much of the option's value on restoring an eye rather than metaphysical power. +Intelligence and +Wisdom are also more pertinent to more situations. However, if you wish to purchase Sharp of Eye anyway, I won't stop you. Rune King pays dividends in the short-medium term, while Sharp of Eye offers relatively less, in exchange for the eye itself.

*One of the two recommended configurations for a warrior-mage strategy
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An inherently lordly option especially if we take Rune King. Taking Wisdom brings back echoes of the old Philosopher King votes from Even Further Beyond and is likely to help us once we actually have territory. Why not ensure human affairs are driven by Wisdom? It delays us a bit when it comes to actually getting the arete for a Magic system to turn To Shatter Heaven on, but we get really farking tanky, we're smarter, and our broad spectrum defenses are improved.


Rihaku said:
[ ] Apex - Double Echo, Apex


*Saves your Arete to purchase some form of magic system in the short term, whether Chief Dominion, Azure Moon or Philosopher's Wreath.

*By focusing on physical prowess and Rank, gains a well-rounded bonus to most actions that leaves it at least somewhat competitive in terms of power with most other options here. Likely to get magic the fastest of the options.

*The highest Agility option here. High Rank provides a formidable Form of Rage.

*The second of two recommended configurations for a warrior-mage strategy.

*The long-term benefits of compounding magic systems can hardly be overstated.
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I am actually kind of tempted. The problem is taking this preserves the objection to Azure Moon that we're studying it at the pace of a mortal unless we're panic researching to fulfill some kind of goal.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Strong Sword-Arm - Echo, Ruinous Valor [Zweihander], A Thousand Cuts 



*Incredible destructive might and tactical versatility

*Passively improves melee-combat in three compounding ways: increased Strength, increased Power of Ruin, and Fell wounds applied to each strike

*Restores the hero's left arm and hand, allowing for many maneuvers hitherto-thought impossible...

*Advantages in both the martial realm and without

+/- Can take Gisena in a princess carry...

*As unarmed attacks can now utilize the Fell-Handed Stroke, can kill the fuck out of many enemies before they have the chance to do much.

*Vulnerable to enemies that it can't kill the fuck out of due to lower overall stats.

*Recommended for a pure combatant or warrior-lord strategy.
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Not bad, but I've got other priorities now.

Rihaku said:
[ ] Root and Branch - Stranglethorn, Undying Vanguard


*Powerful long-term potential at the cost of some AGI growth

*Yields a truckload of raw STR and CON to compensate

*Good versatility and sustain with Undying Vanguard

*Suffers a minor (-5%) penalty for 1 day due to how badly you were wounded the previous day

*Can Establish yourself in virtually any context, growing ever more difficult to resist or dislodge with time, though the effect is slow.

*Recommended for a warrior-lord strategy.
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Not bad I guess, but I've got other priorities now.
 
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Adhoc vote count started by Redshirt Army on Jun 7, 2020 at 9:49 PM, finished with 50 posts and 25 votes.
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Thomasfoolery said:
Seram decides not to go rescue the village to prioritize his safety. The orcs come upon his trail after slaughtering the village due to searching for their scout, hit him while he's not prepared and he gets killed.

I don't think think that specific example was that likely to come to pass but it gets the point across that trying to break things down into 99% vs. 90% is missing a lot of the picture.
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Seram did so because he didn't want to leave those villagers to be slaughtered and then eaten by orcs. If you want to take risks because you consider the possibility of innocents dying to be worse than risking your life, that's a fair choice to make. But risking your life to acquire power quickly is not.

For this vote specifically, if you consider aleviating the suffering of the False Moon as quickly as possible, you might want to choose Push Onwards. If your only goal if power, that will come to us anyway, there's no need to put our life on the line.

And if you do want to help the Moon, then you have to consider the risk of your death as well. Chances are it won't be saved if we die while trying to do so because none of the other people trying to rescue her are Progression-type Cursebearers and so they likely can't scale fast enough to defeat the monsters within.
 
Rihaku, to everyone who voted for Sharp of Eye: "I must break you."

[X] Push in Further
[X] Dreadnought - Echo, Dreadnought's Bearing
-[X] Rune King

So, uh, now that my original vote's been rhetorically suplexed, let's go with this. Intelligence upgrades are amazingly valuable and wisdom shores up a dump stat of Hunger's. Push in is risky, but the Dreadnought's extreme durability and stamina will serve us well. The Apocryphal Curse's timer is ticking in the background; we need to resolve the Temple before our eleven remaining days are up.
 
I'm surprised Search for Humans is so far behind. You've finally got a breather to interact with people outside your party, why not take it and learn something of the Temple at the same? To cut through, pursue knowledge. Measure twice, cut once!

Do note that not only does Sword-arm restore your arms, it applies the effects of your Forebear's Blade to all your unarmed strikes! Think of the tactical possibilities when both your Blade and your hands (!) strike with cursed power and cut through armor like Ruin! To say nothing of the Fell-Handed Punch, power of the Saikyou hero!

One Punch, To Rule Them All...
 
BrainInAJar said:
Come the fuck on, it's just a single -Agility at this point. This is discounting the fact that we already have protection with Evening Sky and can get even more out of it with Progression. We aren't tanking attacks directly with our face here.
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You come the fuck on. We literally just now had a marginal AGI success against an ambush predator that could have been game over had we tried to tank it.

There is no guarantee that we can survive any given hit, especially as more conceptual nonsense comes at us from enemies more intelligent than "enormous ground worm." With a CON-tank build, we are not only destined to get hit by the unusual attack that targets our weak points; we are deliberately using our face to block it.
 
[X] Search For Humans
[X] Bring Gisena
[X] Root and Branch

I do think with Gisena along to mitigate problems and the advantages of Root and Branch we can handle dealing with adventurers one way or another. Root and Branch offers a lot of synergy with the various final forms too.
 
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Really Tempted by Rune King at this point. Can someone remind me how the Graces worked as they leveled? Is there a point where the 8 hour thing doesn't hold and we can stay a sorc full time?
 
runeblue360 said:
Seram did so because he didn't want to leave those villagers to be slaughtered and then eaten by orcs. If you want to take risks because you consider the possibility of innocents dying to be worse than risking your life, that's a fair choice to make. But risking your life to acquire power quickly is not.
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Unfortunately risk-taking (or at least the dogged determination to see through dangerous circumstances) is somewhat part of Hunger's characterization, though I suppose it can be shifted with further action and the right votes. It's certainly the case that you guys won't survive too much longer if you continue taking risks this absurd, though you do have Form of Rage as a short-term buffer until you challenge enemies capable of overwhelming even that.

For this vote specifically, if you consider aleviating the suffering of the False Moon as quickly as possible, you might want to choose Push Onwards. If your only goal if power, that will come to us anyway, there's no need to put our life on the line.

And if you do want to help the Moon, then you have to consider the risk of your death as well. Chances are it won't be saved if we die while trying to do so because none of the other people trying to rescue her are Progression-type Cursebearers and so they likely can't scale fast enough to defeat the monsters within.
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Hmmm, can you be so certain of that?

Sickul said:
Really Tempted by Rune King at this point. Can someone remind me how the Graces worked as they leveled? Is there a point where the 8 hour thing doesn't hold and we can stay a sorc full time?
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As you would have To Shatter Heaven, that is something you could work on. Is it wise to use the same magic system Gisena does, though? At least Total Eclipse promises the unbelievable power and versatility of the Maiden, but Sorcery within its own context is probably not as versatile as Soul Evocation or magic systems of that level. Of course, Sorcery does bring the big stats to compensate.
 
Sickul said:
Really Tempted by Rune King at this point. Can someone remind me how the Graces worked as they leveled? Is there a point where the 8 hour thing doesn't hold and we can stay a sorc full time?
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That's called a Sorcerer Eternal. Seram found his way into becoming one. I don't recall how Graces work as they level unfortunately though.
 
Rihaku said:
Do note that not only does Sword-arm restore your arms, it applies the effects of your Forebear's Blade to all your unarmed strikes! Think of the tactical possibilities when both your Blade and your hands (!) strike with cursed power and cut through armor like Ruin! To say nothing of the Fell-Handed Punch, power of the Saikyou hero!
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I'm a big fan of the restoring body parts train, but I have to admit that mentally translating the unarmed strike potential to someone who up until now was a swordsman with one arm is... hard. Sure there's cases where we'd be literally punching our way out of a situation, but there's a reason why people don't wear stabbing gauntlets/brass knuckles in their off hand even when their sword just takes up their right.
 
[X] Search for Humans
[X] Root and Branch

Now seems like a very good time to talk to some other parties to see if we can tailor our approach.

runeblue360 said:
Snip
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I feel like you missed my point here. It doesn't matter why Seram took the action that on its face was more risky, the point is that when further information was revealed the safe option was perhaps not that safe afterall. So trying to break things down into some sort of threshold of risk is always going to be imperfect. Because all choices have unknown consequences and you're never going to be able to say: "This option is only 1% on the risk scale, this one is 10%, I have no moral impetus to take the 10% so I 100% take the 1%" as that requires omniscience. This becomes very much more relevant especially when you know you're in a rising tide scenario.
 
[X] Sweep the Outskirts
[X] Bring Gisena
[X] Root and Branch

I want another perspective on this place.
 
Orm Embar said:
The wurm's anatomy is cool, in a different quest I could really sink my teeth into cultivating such creatures, but with the Apocryphal Curse and the need for worthy opponents to stave off Decimation, the Gardener's Hallow is a pipe dream. A beautiful dream, sure: a peaceful land, a quiet people, and a plethora of buffs. Maybe if we hadn't chosen death the Temple it'd get more traction, but we need to survive to eat those pies in the sky.
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Such are the wages of recklessness! Though an Echoes + Garden build would have been survivable in the short term, and then you could get to planting!

Orm Embar said:
This is a time-honored boss fight tactic, I can almost see it playing out in video game format. The quest so far would work extremely well as a Triple-A title: Gisena as a support character whose powers don't overlap with Hunger's, Bearic's escape and Letrizia's injury as the obligatory rage-inducing cutscene, etc. Anyway, Pressure's amazing for navigation even at this scale, I wouldn't have anticipated this trick. We should consider more improvised uses of it, especially if Dreadnought's Bearing wins and we can power through our weariness.
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Fund it! Though one wonders at the execution of AAA titles these days... too much risk aversion is the death of creativity.

Orm Embar said:
It's not always easy to tell when Hunger's using Fell-Handed Stroke, but its upgraded form would be a godsend for both battles of attrition and burning down adversaries in a single flurry. This... definitely falls into the former category. What an exhausting image: knee-deep in acid and mucus, ethereal form fraying at the edges, seeing with one eye by starlight, slowly butchering a comatose monster from within. Also, man, does this mean we were stranded deep underground after killing the wurm? Lucky we're in spirit form or escaping would be tricky. It takes a certain sort of person to go "sure, I'll keep going, let me just take a dip to wash the slime off."
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Luckily with Rank and the strength of dozens of men, swimming through the earth is somewhat easy at non-combat speeds, though the Evening Sky has much to be thanked-for here. Resistance to suffocation is quite relevant when there's little air around.

Zfglx said:
A question does the time cost for making plants with Gardner's Hallow require us to be working on the plant the whole time or can we just give the plant what it needs as often as it needs and be of doing other things? Cause is seems like people assume that just because I takes a longer time to make better plants we must spend the whole of it nearby and tending to them, or at least that is how some people's posts on the subject read to me, I am not entirely clear on this. I mean I know it is advantageous for us to travel about but we need to eventually conquer the Human Sphere and I presume that would involve setting up a base at some point being able to enhance the base with magic plants would be pretty great especially if we used it to store up supplies for our journeys making them more fruitful overall.
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Yup, you would be able to set and forget certain aspects of their cultivation, only checking in a periodic intervals depending on how fast you want them grown, etc. But something to keep in mind the next time Gardener's is offered - hopefully it will be!

Thomasfoolery said:
Now seems like a very good time to talk to some other parties to see if we can tailor our approach.
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If the plan is to tailor your approach with what's learned, why not consider the noncommittal path of Apex?
 
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