A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
- Location
- Pindorama
No, it matters against any stronger foe in general, because it kills them faster. Less time fighting is less time being attrited down and less time for them to kill us. This isn't something to just pierce defenses, it's a super move. Against glass cannons it's even better in fact, because it guarantees victory in one blow.
I can tell you with absolute confidence that Rihaku will never bar you from arguing over builds, provided it's kept civil and in good faith.
Looks like our doom's been deferred for now. I'll take Evangelion references and exposition over parachuting straight into hell any day.
I don't know why exactly I expected a Dark Souls experience from the Decimator's Affliction, on a day-to-day level the changes wouldn't be visible. This isn't quite Manifest Realm-level comfiness, but it's up there, pretty enough that we'd feel guilty for being here with the Curse unsuppressed.
Guess I shouldn't be surprised that Gisena followed through, but the transition from banter to actuality makes it funnier. Reminds me Seram's standoff with the paper mache crane Lilea made for him, after waking up in Koine's school. Such care and consideration, truly a terrifying opponent. Speaking of under-explored characters, we never got to know her too well or figured out the method behind Koine's madness, though she's a recurring figure in Addio's omakes.
Interesting, might give some insight into the Maiden's intentions for Gisena? Does it even make sense to conceive of her that way, after she splintered herself? I suppose an algorithm or sufficiently advanced foresight would do the trick. The Oracle's existence implies that the Maiden had a Path to Victory equivalent, even if the Grace's later bearer was crippled. Presumably intentionally, so she couldn't path her way to reconstructing the findross singularity? Man, so many of these reactions include me rambling about AST 1.0's worldbuilding, I should just bite the bullet and chase the Eclipse.
Does... Hunger know about the Duty? How much has Gisena discussed her last stop, anyway?
A nice way to work in the results of our earlier mitigation vote.
Her self-appointed title's not as flattering as she thinks, since Hunger doesn't know any other Sorceresses. Check back in a dozen updates or so, Gisena, when we've taken Total Eclipse and set Letrizia up with a Coalescence of her own. Then there'll be an actual contest! If we're still alive, anyway.
I figured we wouldn't have to regularly stab ourselves to heal others, that'd be downright unintuitive, but it's good to have confirmation. Even free picks are powerful and our presence gradually healing people might throw hunters off the scent of the Affliction, if we ever let it run.
Poor Letrizia, she really ought to be made aware of all the Curses we bear. She recruited us as an escort and we've gotten her into a heap of trouble since.
I'm awfully curious about the structure of whatever organization she works for, but I'm guessing Foremost relics are too rare for a Corps. Maybe if the tech advances enough for mass production of Armor Prototypes, that'll change?
Not yet, anyway, that nameless pirate managed to give his crew knockoff versions of the Evening Sky. Maybe not be as dedicated as Vanguard's protective ability, but I wouldn't mind donating 2 Arete to the cause of Letrizia's continued survival.
Hey, we paid a heavy price for all this swag, both in and out of character!
A fair rebuttal, our investment in intellect and charisma paying dividends. Maybe we're not as physically powerful as we could be, but the surrogate daughter deal we've got with Letrizia's fun. It does make me wonder about Ceathlynn, though, what that dynamic would've been like. Forsaken Mask lost and this still could've been a parenting quest!
Heh, she's literally calling us a tool.
Staying where we were attacked seems risky, but if Bearic can port in from anywhere this location might not be worse than anywhere else. If we had Prolessarch, maybe we could try to mess with the navigation, drop him in a monster nest or something. Risky to try on a Gamer, but as anyone who's ever played an RPG knows, aggroing something with red question marks for a level's a bad idea. Not like he can respawn, right?
Eh, Verschlengorge has many virtues, but eaves are not among them.
Abusing the sensory aspect of her Sorcerous enhancements, how entirely in-character of her. Accursed help us all once she's introduced to the concept of the surveillance state. She did overhear us spilling the beans to Letrizia too, but I can't blame her for worrying about Hunger, he's objectively suspicious.
Well, you know how it goes with the nobility. Literal entitlement leads inevitably to the metaphorical sort.
Well, Jotarun did believe she'd given up and would simply help him kill her countrymen in the other timeline. Was that naivety on his part, or did he calculate that her Dutiful actions would advance his own goals and that she could be disposed of at will later, her use expended?
Hunger talking about his history's a not-insignificant gesture of trust. He's no longer the powerless corpse playing at being alive to whom the Accursed extended his offer, but if either Letrizia or Gisena should die... Rage doesn't need a Form to make itself known.
Just imagine how great it'll be to get your arm and eye back, man. Still, the investigation's long overdue, we just keep getting sidetracked by the need to survive... and fish.
'Who the hell do you think I am?' Someone who's mixing her references, that's for sure.
It'll be interesting to see her interact with peers, though I imagine the prospect of Decimation drives a lot of them off. Might explain why she was deployed alone, if they don't customarily have it suppressed?
The small touches are important. Even with the damage, this place still feels cozy, like a home away from home. Who knows, her family might even still be alive? Some mecha pilots have to buck the trend, and Versch doesn't contain part of her mother's soul. The books are very Letrizia, can't have one's references far from hand! It's an oddly low-tech solution, but some people just prefer the feeling of reading dead-tree versions.
Useful, Bearic wouldn't have been able inflict those wounds. At the level these things were made to fight at, having a squishy human as a weak spot to be shot for massive damage's a crippling disadvantage.
Turns out that's not necessarily the case, but proper repairs will have to wait.
Yeah, the similarities are really stacking up. It's fun to consider what the other possibilities would've been like, Armaments built to interface with other Curses. The Plenary Brand sounds like a hell of drug, with its ever-increasing power, but keeping an Armament with that Curse operational over however many millennia would be challenging if it gets dogpiled in every battle. A Tyrant mech sounds terrifying and difficult to synchronize with. Slumber's not that bad, cleaves to conventional mecha anime tropes where war machines need infrastructural support and can't operate continuously. It would slow this trip down, though.
Yeah, they're still pioneering the science of Astral Rank, I'll eat my hat if they can comprehend a civilization that weaponized Curses.
This icy blue consistently crops up where Cursebearers are concerned, we first saw it when Seram's interface was being finalized. There's something fundamental about it, a glimpse through a gap in the firmament.
I suddenly have a shitload of questions! 'Shining tomorrow' sounds an awful lot like the golden forever, Odyssial's promised victory. What were the Foremost trying to achieve? How many Cursebearers were involved in this endeavor? The Foremost's name no longer sounds like hubris, especially if they counted Cursebearers among their ranks. The question of their fate just became much more important. I did consider that the name was for a person, not a civilization, but Letrizia's dialogue indicates otherwise.
That's convenient, we should've gotten in the robot earlier, spared our surroundings. It's been longer out of character than it has in it, so it's not that bad. Also, did we just accidentally commit grand theft Armament?
I imagine we could make a mint translating for scholars in the Human Sphere, everybody's going to want access to that function.
She's heard Verschlengorge talk before? Apart from the Armament acknowledging us? That sounds like a story.
It's good of Hunger to go out of the way to clarify this, and good of Verschlengorge to not require the clarification. The Cursebearer setup in general's way more wholesome than it could be, what with things like the Accursed policing Rivalrous behavior between the Geas-bound.
Interesting choice of pronoun too, could be anything from the royal we to a hint at being a hivemind. For a giant murder machine Verschlengorge is surprisingly relatable, we can even read weariness in his posture. That could be compatibility talking, but the battered hero and borderline-broken machine make for a dynamic duo. This update's definitely increased my interest in piloting
Hunger took the words right out of my mouth. This is deep lore. Inquiring minds want to know!
I was all set to dig into a buffet of exposition on my first pass through the update, then we ran face-first into the Foremost's infosec protocols. Fair enough, though, Hunger's barely found his feet. This is his first week on the force, there may be secrets contained in Verschlengorge's databanks that would literally be unsafe for him to know. Before all else, he must live and grow strong.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Oh, I'm not asking if I'm going to be barred for it. I'm asking if this is a semi-productive use of my time
I don't think anyone knows the precise arcane workings of the engagement detecting rites apart from Rihaku, and he's not spilling, presumably out of the completely justifiable and correct worry that everyone would immediately abuse the hell out of them until they were changed.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Fall of Night also reduces fall damage to zero! I don't know if that'll be useful, but it sure looks cool!
Vanguard winning wouldn't be so bad, since it would let us leave Letricia alone outside the Temple--which, with Hollow Star would make her combat abilities fairly formidable. I think though, accumulating more offensive power by being able to attack at range and strike far above our weight class is more relevant in that we need to reach certain breakpoints in attacking ability to handle Ber as well as whatever the Temple might throw at us. Making our party more tanky won't help against sufficiently strong opposition, but a more murderous murdersword definitely will.
Vanguard winning wouldn't be so bad, since it would let us leave Letricia alone outside the Temple--which, with Hollow Star would make her combat abilities fairly formidable. I think though, accumulating more offensive power by being able to attack at range and strike far above our weight class is more relevant in that we need to reach certain breakpoints in attacking ability to handle Ber as well as whatever the Temple might throw at us. Making our party more tanky won't help against sufficiently strong opposition, but a more murderous murdersword definitely will.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
Ruin is already a severe counter against glass cannons, as any blow is crippling.
I do agree that faster fights are better, but the question is faster fights with one person or somewhat slower fights with two people.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
We've already got ranged with blades of wind that Fall of Night makes much cheaper to use. Cuts is an improvement though. I'm thinking of things in terms of when we should buy cuts rather than if we should, and I believe it would be a good purchase next time - buying vanguard while in the temple doesn't really help us. Buying Cuts does.
Especially since with Vanguard that should transfer to our companions too, which means we can literally grab the loot and jump off the top.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
@ImperatorV I'm Tempted. I'm not sure where precisely Rihaku Quantified the Stat Boost for having Sorcery powers active, but at least for the moment I'm tempted
[X] Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
[X] Echo of the Forebear
-[X] Undying Echo - 2 Arete
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
Current stats:
++INT, ++++CHA, +Strength, +Constitution, ++++AGI
add Philosopher's Wreath [+Intelligence, +Wisdom, +Charisma] combined with whatever precise stat boosts we get if we pick sorcery and we get a floor of
+++INT, +WIS, +++++CHA, +Strength, +Constitution, ++++AGI
add the benefits for echo of the forebear/undying echo[+Strength, +Agility, ++++Constitution] and that takes our floor to
+++INT, +WIS, +++++CHA, ++Strength, +++++Constitution, +++++AGI
Add whatever precise Sorcery stat boosts we get on top of that, to our Grace, and it doesn't seem bad
[X] Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
[X] Echo of the Forebear
-[X] Undying Echo - 2 Arete
[X] Letrizia - Hollow Star
Current stats:
++INT, ++++CHA, +Strength, +Constitution, ++++AGI
add Philosopher's Wreath [+Intelligence, +Wisdom, +Charisma] combined with whatever precise stat boosts we get if we pick sorcery and we get a floor of
+++INT, +WIS, +++++CHA, +Strength, +Constitution, ++++AGI
add the benefits for echo of the forebear/undying echo[+Strength, +Agility, ++++Constitution] and that takes our floor to
+++INT, +WIS, +++++CHA, ++Strength, +++++Constitution, +++++AGI
Add whatever precise Sorcery stat boosts we get on top of that, to our Grace, and it doesn't seem bad
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
He hasn't, in this quest at least. And so we can't be sure they match the previous one. We know the Graces we will get offered will not be the same, hence it's a big mystery box.
- Location
- Pindorama
Faster fights just seems better in general, really. The less time our enemies are alive is less time for them to do stuff for us. We can't just rely on her Nullity and regen here, as I have argued, because we already faced enemies with counters to both. But they can't harm us when they're dead.
The question of gaining 7 extra Arete in the temple aside; the Arete that would go to Vanguard can just go to another option instead; it's not like we lack those. Vanguard isn't necessary for this.
Rihaku
The Internet
Hm... Seram's quantification doesn't translate easily into this system. I'd say if you went pure STATS you could have 2/3rds of your physical stats be at 80% of Witch-Slayer level, with some commensurate level of bullshit. Right now you are at about 1/8th of a Witch-Slayer's physical strength not accounting for Rank, but your Strength sucks.
For reference, a Witch-Slayer is capable of throwing an axe at 350 mph, about the energy of an anti-material rifle, and can shrug off incineration of their interior torso for several seconds.
I like your experimentation with different Gisena forms! Some combination of this one and the family portrait one is probably close to ideal. I can't help but think Gisena would have a super sophisticated gaming setup. Or be too busy discovering orbital launch vehicles to have time to play.
yeah just take the best parts and aesthetic feel of both and somehow make something with all of that, and then if you could really make it pop also that would be great. no pressure though
Yup. It's almost a hidden build...
Have you considered the lateral warfare gap, however?
You could get even more stats by taking Undying Echo instead of Fall of Night! That is the path of true muscle!
A man who knows his priorities! A good strategy to have in a chaotic vote, however.
Oh, I'm not asking if I'm going to be barred for it. I'm asking if this is a semi-productive use of my time
It's productive, though for obvious reasons I won't say much more...
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
You mistake me. I want Vanguard, hence I'm going to keep arguing for it while we can still benefit from it.
And I suspect the Temple is going to be a number of updates, particularly if we get in a series of boss fights. In which case we should have time to generate 7 Arete. Particularly since the Arete value of choices seems to be going up as we get stronger. Slowly.
Works for me, thanks!
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
At the risk of undermining my Gisena vote I'm not sure it was actually infosec Stopping Versch from speaking. It sounded more like it ran out of power and lacked the resources to continue speaking without exhausting itself.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
So we go from 1/8 to 8/10. That's a.. 6.4 times improvement. Before even considering future advancement.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
If we assume all stats are equal and additive we currently have +6 in physical stats compared to a witch slayers +48. This means a physical grace would give us 21 +'s worth of physical stats!?
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Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
Well, they do have three heads. It's a cerbereva, you can stuff a whole family's souls in there. No wonder they like her. :S
Rihaku
The Internet
Current vote count?
THE APOCRYPHAL CURSE: About that.
The one intrinsically opposed the other, its diametric opposite in ideal...
They presumably encountered at least one, though who can say how far their reach truly extended... were they in the end merely a frog in a cosmic well? Or did they strive towards true relevance on a hitherto unforeseen scale?
Could be both! He does have three heads, after all.
THE APOCRYPHAL CURSE: About that.
The one intrinsically opposed the other, its diametric opposite in ideal...
They presumably encountered at least one, though who can say how far their reach truly extended... were they in the end merely a frog in a cosmic well? Or did they strive towards true relevance on a hitherto unforeseen scale?
Could be both! He does have three heads, after all.
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LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Echoes + Fall of night stronk. From there it's a question of solo or team play.
- Location
- Omniverse #1345
There look to be 3 major plans at the moment.
[] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
My personal pick.
[] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
[] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
and
[] Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
[] Echo of the Forebear
-[] Undying Echo - 2 Arete
So let's go through these: The first two builds are very similar in most respects. The general idea being an increase in strength and Con to fill the offensive hole in our build. Both also increase our agility to surprisingly high levels. The difference is trading out Undying Vanguard for A Thousand Cuts, which means it is a matter of if bringing Gisena into the dungeon with us (and the improved safety for her and Letiz) are worth more or less than the large increase in stopping power A Thousand Cuts provides. Note the first pick also gives additional con, due to Undying Echo.
The second choice is quite different. This is a build that is relying on taking Sorcery as our learned magic and grabbing a useful Grace and using that to fill the weaknesses that are otherwise present in the build. It grabs an Echo and Undying Echo to round out our stats and increase Con. Unfortunately we do not know what graces we will be offered, so we can't do more than make general guesses as to how well it will fill in the holes.
[] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[] Forebear's Blade - Undying Vanguard - 7 Arete.
My personal pick.
[] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the ForebearX2
[] Forebear's Blade - Fall of Night - 2 Arete
[] Forebear's Blade - A Thousand Cuts - 7 Arete (0 picks)
and
[] Philosopher's Wreath - 7 Arete (2 picks)
[] Echo of the Forebear
-[] Undying Echo - 2 Arete
So let's go through these: The first two builds are very similar in most respects. The general idea being an increase in strength and Con to fill the offensive hole in our build. Both also increase our agility to surprisingly high levels. The difference is trading out Undying Vanguard for A Thousand Cuts, which means it is a matter of if bringing Gisena into the dungeon with us (and the improved safety for her and Letiz) are worth more or less than the large increase in stopping power A Thousand Cuts provides. Note the first pick also gives additional con, due to Undying Echo.
The second choice is quite different. This is a build that is relying on taking Sorcery as our learned magic and grabbing a useful Grace and using that to fill the weaknesses that are otherwise present in the build. It grabs an Echo and Undying Echo to round out our stats and increase Con. Unfortunately we do not know what graces we will be offered, so we can't do more than make general guesses as to how well it will fill in the holes.
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[X] Forebear's Blade - Echo of the Forebear
[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
[X] The Ring of Power - Preeminence - 7 Arete
[X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
I'm thinking more and more that the tower is unlikely to just be an endless series of cage matches or something similar, based on the style of the map and the outside. So even though it's a bit risky to base the build on those clues I think versatility is called for here.
[X] The Ring of Power - Dominion - 2 Arete
[X] The Ring of Power - Preeminence - 7 Arete
[X] Gisena - Sorcerous Advancement I
I'm thinking more and more that the tower is unlikely to just be an endless series of cage matches or something similar, based on the style of the map and the outside. So even though it's a bit risky to base the build on those clues I think versatility is called for here.