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A Simple Transaction I

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Not sure if it's been discussed or raised, but I wanted to raise a query for the Second Stage Full Heal after the duration ends.

I'm assuming that it only gets Hunger up into full HP but doesn't remove the maiming or any other debuffs/constraints dealt by the Tyrant. Similarly, it wouldn't heal up any familiar debuff.

So, under those assumptions, would it be fair to say that the debuffs that can be gained by fighting the Australian wildlife Mire Wolf or Tyrant Beast could also theoretically be removed after Second Stage's Full Heal?
 
BrainInAJar said:
This plan aims to save up as much Arete as possible while still healing us; 80% chance of being ahead is good odds and Rank Ups are incredibly valuable, especially since we reserved Once and Future. Won't deny the risk of this plan; but I think resource-wise the gains are commensurate. Just as long as we survive, we'd be fully healed in a day; much better than Undying Strength where if we are wounded we have to keep it for two weeks. All in the aim of getting that EFB. We just need to beat that 10%, and we would be out of the death spiral much farther ahead then when we started. Pretty good, if I say so myself.
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I happen to recall a major argument for committing points into 25-point options was that they were long-term. Which is to say, not intended to be picked up within the next three-to-five updates.

Yes Once and Future is good. Three 7-pointers and two 2-pointers would also be good. But what point does Saving the option of Once and Future have if we're just going to bee-line it? Even if we went full tech rush, wouldn't it make more sense to nab something that would have great synergy with Once and Future, and then put it off for later because we can actually do that?
 
Well, Second Stage probably heals all conventional injuries including maiming, that's what 'full heal' sounds like to me at least, and it doesn't say anything about enemy effects contesting this, unlike Pristine.
But we could still overburden our Exhausted soul in the process, doing some (more) permanent damage to it, or get targeted by a curse - since the Tyrant represents our former enemy, it could have some similar capabilities, and that guy cursed us to lose the vigor of our youth.
 
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Taka said:
Not sure if it's been discussed or raised, but I wanted to raise a query for the Second Stage Full Heal after the duration ends.

I'm assuming that it only gets Hunger up into full HP but doesn't remove the maiming or any other debuffs/constraints dealt by the Tyrant. Similarly, it wouldn't heal up any familiar debuff.
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I asked about it and Pristine Star. Neither are capable of undoing the damage the Tyrant did to Hunger, he's too far above them. On the other hand Pillars and some other abilities can undo that damage.

Basically Tyrant damaged our very soul, so even the wraith will reflect the injuries he dealt.
 
Tyrant maw isn't that risky. It has an 80% chance of just being flat out better than the other options, a 10% of being about the same or slightly worse and a 10% chance of killing us. 10% isn't that risky, presumably most challenging opponents that will give us any decent amount of xp should have at least a 10% chance of killing us we just don't hear the exact numbers usually. This is way safer than the sword vote which had between a 33% and 50% chance of killing us.

Four out of 5 times it's better than the other two options combined. Plus we increase our margin of safety afterwards because not only do we gain more straight up power with the extra picks, arete and rank but it mitigates the apocryphal for the two weeks we'll need to track down Ber and kill him.
 
LordOfMurder said:
Four out of 5 times it's better than the other two options combined. Plus we increase our margin of safety afterwards because not only do we gain more straight up power with the extra picks, arete and rank but it mitigates the apocryphal for the two weeks we'll need to track down Ber and kill him.
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You have a very high risk tolerance. 4 out of 5 is terrifyingly risky to bet on a single dice roll that isn't needed. If it was needed I'd be okay with it, but it completely isn't.
 
Byzantine said:
You have a very high risk tolerance. 4 out of 5 is terrifyingly risky to bet on a single dice roll that isn't needed. If it was needed I'd be okay with it, but it completely isn't.
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1 out of 10 times it's still good but 8 out of 10 it's just flat out the best. Who says it isn't needed though? Getting more rank is crucial for our build now that we've saved once and future. Plus we've just found out the apocryphal curse can trigger unlimited times in a row if it feels like it, so given we're being targeted by an opponent who can outscale us in the short term I think the mitigation and extra power dredged from tyrant seems pretty damn important.

If we're not confident with taking chances that we win 80%-90% of the time I think we're going to have issues given we have to fight opponents that pose some sort of risk to us in order to get XP.
 
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Box Lunch said:
I've got a question: how high do you think our chances of dying were all those times we didn't get hard %s on it?
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Effectively 0.

LordOfMurder said:
Who says it isn't needed though?
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Me. I say that thinking you need to immediately jump on the biggest shiny you see is exactly the silliness that got us in this situation to begin with. The Tyrant rewards looks tempting but the odds are high relative to the norm that it is going to end badly for us.

You keep discarding the 30% change of a moderate complication, too. That is stupid. Rihaku isn't going to have it be something we can instantly weasel our way out of. If it was he wouldn't have bothered with the risk/reward scheme. You are taking the trap option and believing that because it is shiny its the best, when in reality I figure that half the time we'll end up worse off than we started. With 10% of the time that being straight up dead and another 10% being eating something as bad as exhausted that will last an entire month.
 
Box Lunch said:
I happen to recall a major argument for committing points into 25-point options was that they were long-term. Which is to say, not intended to be picked up within the next three-to-five updates.

Yes Once and Future is good. Three 7-pointers and two 2-pointers would also be good. But what point does Saving the option of Once and Future have if we're just going to bee-line it? Even if we went full tech rush, wouldn't it make more sense to nab something that would have great synergy with Once and Future, and then put it off for later because we can actually do that?
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Compared to the literal zero planning we have usually, getting something in three-to-five updates is very much long term planning!

We have to start saving for it sometime, and there's no best time than right now. If we keep putting it of for later under the logic that it's always available we will never get it. The down-payment guaranteed us it's presence, but we have to actually cash it in to get in. Tyrant is the option with great synergy with Once and Future, thanks to the Rank up and extra Arete. But to actually have it we need to focus on it and not pursue unrelated things simply because they'd be synergistic; we're a Progression-type Cursebearer, synergies aren't something irreplaceable for us.

So yes, I do want to bee-line it. Having it has soon as possible is worth the loss of these hypothetical "synergies". EFBs are EFB, and they are key to victory.
 
BrainInAJar said:
Compared to the literal zero planning we have usually, getting something in three-to-five updates is very much long term planning!

We have to start saving for it sometime, and there's no best time than right now. If we keep putting it of for later under the logic that it's always available we will never get it. The down-payment guaranteed us it's presence, but we have to actually cash it in to get in. Tyrant is the option with great synergy with Once and Future, thanks to the Rank up and extra Arete. But to actually have it we need to focus on it and not pursue unrelated things simply because they'd be synergistic; we're a Progression-type Cursebearer, synergies aren't something irreplaceable for us.

So yes, I do want to bee-line it. Having it has soon as possible is worth the loss of these hypothetical "synergies". EFBs are EFB, and they are key to victory.
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Now is a really bad time to beeline it. Injured and facing a rapidly scaling threat?
 
BrainInAJar said:
So yes, I do want to bee-line it. Having it has soon as possible is worth the loss of these hypothetical "synergies". EFBs are EFB, and they are key to victory.
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That borders fetishism. Planning involves placing steps between gathering underwear and profiting.

Winter Moon, Scent of Prey, Shine Bright, Amaranth Star - 2pts.
Pitiless Maw, Undying Vanguard - 7pts.

Do you know what all of these have in common? Direct or indirect synergy with Once and Future. In the long-term, taking them is interchangeable with taking Once and Future, because the plan is to actually use Once and Future. It makes you big and buff, but more importantly it makes you Super Effective at warfare. You know what would be awesome at that point? Having already been that, and then doubling down on it and doing our Geas-damned job.
 
If we had sufficient Arete I'd be up for Wolf + Maw + Pristine Star. We'd have to kill some things on our way back, but Maw is so ridiculously OP that isn't even important.

We'd need about .8 Arete to pull this off, though.

I'm not willing to risk a Tyrant roll for the 1 Arete gain.
 
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Shard said:
Now is a really bad time to beeline it. Injured and facing a rapidly scaling threat?
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Box Lunch said:
That borders fetishism. Planning involves placing steps between gathering underwear and profiting.

Winter Moon, Scent of Prey, Shine Bright, Amaranth Star - 2pts.
Pitiless Maw, Undying Vanguard - 7pts.

Do you know what all of these have in common? Direct or indirect synergy with Once and Future. In the long-term, taking them is interchangeable with taking Once and Future, because the plan is to actually use Once and Future. It makes you big and buff, but more importantly it makes you Super Effective at warfare. You know what would be awesome at that point? Having already been that, and then doubling down on it and doing our Geas-damned job.
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Fetishism? How often do you participate in these quests? Kind of late to start throwing that accusation after Praxis came and went.

Yes, we can take any of these options and they'd be great with Once and Future. Alternatively, we can just buy Once and Future and benefit from the increased Progression had by actually getting stronger much sooner. Trust me, we won't run out of options that would be synergistic with Once and Future, especially once we have it. Seeking out such things before we even actually have the power is putting the cart before the horse. The most important part of a build focused on Once and Future is in fact having Once and Future, not all the nice synergies with other powers. Being strong in other ways is not a replacement for it; otherwise there'd be no point to reserving it and we can just get whatever.

If we want to make Once and Future a priority; we have to start prioritizing it. That necessarily means making sacrifices in other areas, like yes; the risk of facing the Tyrant and not picking a 7 Arete option. We have to prioritize anyway in the future, and passing up on the powers that you have in front of you will be no less painful then. That's why you should make the commitment as early as possible.
 
BrainInAJar said:
Fetishism? How often do you participate in these quests? Kind of late to start throwing that accusation after Praxis came and went.

Yes, we can take any of these options and they'd be great with Once and Future. Alternatively, we can just buy Once and Future and benefit from the increased Progression had by actually getting stronger much sooner. Trust me, we won't run out of options that would be synergistic with Once and Future, especially once we have it. Seeking out such things before we even actually have the power is putting the cart before the horse. The most important part of a build focused on Once and Future is in fact having Once and Future, not all the nice synergies with other powers. Being strong in other ways is not a replacement for it; otherwise there'd be no point to reserving it and we can just get whatever.

If we want to make Once and Future a priority; we have to start prioritizing it. That necessarily means making sacrifices in other areas, like yes; the risk of facing the Tyrant and not picking a 7 Arete option. We have to prioritize anyway in the future, and passing up on the powers that you have in front of you will be no less painful then. That's why you should make the commitment as early as possible.
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Maybe the correct responce is, you know, selecting a small amount of 2 Arete options to tide us over until we hit 25 Arete, or otherwise select 3/2-pick options that solve our problem immediately? As opposed to being both greedy with Arete and Picks both?
 
[x]Plumed Offering
[x]Undying Vanguard

I guess some early investment into the safety of our companions means we can more effectively save our Arete later because we won't have to spend o finding specific abilities to keep them safe and healthy. Also, helps them scale with our Progression and could be a powerful incentive for any potential followers we want to recruit, even if spending 7 Arete stings terribly. Still worth it to protect them from the Apocryphal.
 
My problem with Undying Vanguard as single pick is that I don't want to keep cosplaying as the Black Knight more than strictly necessary. Yes, those pluses to Constitution enhance our natural healing; but how long does it naturally take to heal an arm that's basically burnt off? We need a stronger ability when it comes to healing specifically, because while our allies would be better off, we'd still be pretty vulnerable. And that's kind of a problem not just because we are actually playing Hunger specifically, but because all that nice ally protection ends when we die; therefore for Vanguard our own safety is paramount. So we should probably take Pristine with it at least.
 
By line, or by block? Hmm..
Adhoc vote count started by BrainInAJar on Jun 1, 2020 at 10:05 AM, finished with 227 posts and 41 votes.
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[X] The Tyrant Beast
[X] Evening Sky - Shine Bright - 2 Arete.
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage - 2 Arete.

More Rank, heals both us and Ritz while spending only three Arete on balance. If we can just take this fucker out cleanly we'll be in the clear. Form of Rage and Final Form sound like some good upgrades, they even go well with this off-brand gamer ripoff's bullshit. This unlocks new options, suppresses Apocryphal, and heals everybody. What's not to like? All we gotta do is win.
 
Wonder why my vote got put into the colour formatted category rather than the plain one.

God, it's such a mess.
 
Hm... perhaps I should eliminate all but the most popular plans? We've still got such a large number going into a run-off, though. It'd still be 4 or 5 options with how tight things are.
 
10% ain't worth it:

[X] The Mire Wolf
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star
[X] Forebear's Blade - Second Stage
 
Both leading plans are incredibly risky :X. One has great risk in the short term. The other has a great risk in the immediate term.
 
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