Remove ads

A Simple Transaction I

Reader mode
MoeDeathStar said:
You're comparing the marginal benefit of hunting the Tyrant against the marginal benefit of both other options at once.

The marginal benefit of Tyrant over Plumed Offering is that it gets us 0.5 Arete and an extra choice, and the marginal benefit of Tyrant over Mire Wolf is 1 Arete.

This is in addition to the other benefits you mentioned, such as the reduced Apocryphal proc-chance, and resetting A Hunger.

Again, the great benefit of Tyrant is that it gives us a lot more breathing room in the aftermath than the other options do.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Yes, and the claim I'm making is that either of the benefits from Plumed Offering or The Mire Wolf are enough to keep us from getting kicked off the treadmill.

Rihaku said:
It also gives +.25 Rank! And what did you do for +.25 Rank last time? Killed a promising lass through age and treachery, and caught one whopper of a fish! Both risky actions in and of themselves...
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I voted against killing the fish, and it's not as if we could avoid killing the lass... It's true that +.25 Rank is a boon, but I'm not sure what Ber's going to do while we leave our companions alone for 10 hours.
 
I can see an argument for Mire Wolf, the extra pick's a nice perk, but Tyrant is the same brand of risk-taking that got us into this mess. Let's not pick up more debuffs that will make future challenges harder, incentivizing us to take yet another chance so we can dodge the consequences of our last choice. Yes, the additional quarter-Rank would be good, and the reduced chance of an Apocryphal proc is a godsend. That doesn't matter much if we spend the 'reprieve' maimed and trying to extricate ourselves from a mess of our own making. The Satiation is essentially wasted, as we've got four weeks left currently.
 
Orm Embar said:
I can see an argument for Mire Wolf, the extra pick's a nice perk, but Tyrant is the same brand of risk-taking that got us into this mess. Let's not pick up more debuffs that will make future challenges harder, incentivizing us to take yet another chance so we can dodge the consequences of our last choice. Yes, the additional quarter-Rank would be good, and the reduced chance of an Apocryphal proc is a godsend. That doesn't matter much if we spend the 'reprieve' maimed and trying to extricate ourselves from a mess of our own making. The Satiation is essentially wasted, as we've got four weeks left currently.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Bro i've been lurking on Rihaku quests since before smart phones were a big thing, and I know you've been around.

We both know the board's never going to ease up on taking risks. It's only getting cold feet now because the threat of death is explicit this time rather than implicit.

Our only options are to get the options that allow us to safely see the risks through.
 
Tyrant doesn't give good returns on investment, so I am against it. Maybe if it was a Tyrant-Fish.. :V
 
Seriously guys, I think Plumed Offering + Undying Vanguard is being underrated. Just think about how much faster you can level with:

1) A fully healed Letrizia who's immunized against most further harm
2) A Gisena that can facetank enemies, making her null accuracy % much higher and allowing you guys to split up more safely (such as with the pirate battle, or portions of this one! Consider how often the Apocryphal Curse makes you do this!)
3) Boosted stats for yourself!

The combination of 2) and 3) alone would be an almost overwhelming advantage against peer-level opponents and quite strong even against foes mightier than you, especially those reliant on magic. Freedom in positioning Gisena means so much more than just defense, it brings all the other applications of Nullity to the fore!

Consider:

1) Evening Sky makes you immune to nonmagical munitions below the level of Little Boy
2) Undying Vanguard Gisena is overall as well-defended as you
3) Gisena can run in, Tide of Nullity the enemies, then point blank detonate one of Veschlengorge's missiles / a crockpot full of her cooking for massive damage! You don't even have to do anything!

Think of the utility!!
 
Rihaku said:
Seriously guys, I think Plumed Offering + Undying Vanguard is being underrated. Just think about how much faster you can level with:

1) A fully healed Letrizia who's immunized against most further harm
2) A Gisena that can facetank enemies, making her null accuracy % much higher and allowing you guys to split up more safely (such as with the pirate battle, or portions of this one! Consider how often the Apocryphal Curse makes you do this!)
3) Boosted stats for yourself!

The combination of 2) and 3) alone would be an almost overwhelming advantage against peer-level opponents and quite strong even against foes mightier than you, especially those reliant on magic. Freedom in positioning Gisena means so much more than just defense, it brings all the other applications of Nullity to the fore!

Consider:

1) Evening Sky makes you immune to nonmagical munitions below the level of Little Boy
2) Undying Vanguard Gisena is overall as well-defended as you
3) Gisena can run in, Tide of Nullity the enemies, then point blank detonate one of Veschlengorge's missiles / a crockpot full of her cooking for massive damage! You don't even have to do anything!

Think of the utility!!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
1. Does Undying Vanguard have another upgrade option that brings it up to 25 Arete?
2. Does Pristine Star and Shining Bright have a notable synergy?
a. Actually, are there hidden synergies at all in the options?
 
Not that you know of.

They do have synergy, but it's pretty modest. Pristine Star makes Shine Bright more powerful, but not dramatically so.
 
Vanguard does give us a lot more safety to use our companions as diplomats to mitigate the Tyrant's Curse. Much easier to remove ourselves and let them act independently socially if there's a very low chance of losing them.
 
Sickul said:
Vanguard does give us a lot more safety to use our companions as diplomats to mitigate the Tyrant's Curse. Much easier to remove ourselves and let them act independently socially if there's a very low chance of losing them.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

Though, I will say it does predispose you to take +Protection and +Constitution over +Agility, since those get transferred over (to some degree) while speed doesn't. Still, the fact that every Opalescence you take is +Protection not only for yourself, but for Gisena and Letrizia, makes it even more valuable!

Want more utility? You can even recruit people on the precipice of death by telling them to swear fealty to you! If they mean it, they'll begin regenerating!
 
[X] The Plumed Offering
[X] Evening Sky - Pristine Star

This saves Arete, fixes all our problems, and lets us move on to the next stage of the story. Take the win and keep moving.

Rihaku said:
Yup, the Tyrant Beast gives so many benefits if you guys are willing to gamble! A 10% chance of death is of course terrible but if you succeed you would be well set-up into the future!
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm only willing to gamble death if the story is in the endgame, or if it's something really good like the Praxis AND we have decent odds (I voted against praxis in the initial vote but I almost changed my mind several times). This? Really, really not worth it.
 
Hm... the ability to deploy Gisena's cooking without fear of collateral damage isn't to be underestimated. With our long-term build seemingly prioritizing Rank, we'd be able to designate whoever we want. Perhaps we could even exclude Vanguard members from the Affliction? Selective mitigation's the first step to weaponization. On the other hand, we don't actually have seven Arete to spend on Vanguard right now, even Tyrant's +1 doesn't get us there. Will try to crank out an A&T reaction sometime tomorrow, but I'm fairly bushed.
 
@Rihaku how would Second Stage effect Undying Vanguard? Could our closest companions gain a Wraithform if we grab both? Its not terribly important due to Arete costs, but its still an interesting idea.
 
Last edited:
Thomasfoolery said:
A moderate complication is not actually likely a net negative in comparison to the other gains offered by Tyrant.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I agree, but the expected value of all total outcomes of the Tyrant Beast IS a net negative (at least, this is the argument I'm making). Moderate complications reduce the overall value of benefits for Tyrant, in the same way that it reduces the value of benefits for Mire Wolf. Serious complications do the same, to a larger degree (perhaps even outweighing total benefits). Perhaps this would be acceptable without the risk of death, but even then, many of the benefits are either not mutually exclusive (Arete, Astral Rank) or not meaningful in the short-term (resetting A Hunger, Sated).

Thomasfoolery said:
It's a question of overall effects though, even discarding everything else we've currently got a peer scaling (For the near-mid term) enemy that's going to grow at the same rate regards of how fast we ourselves work. Yes every option increases our power, that doesn't mean that our odds are necessarily going up though, depending on the time per gain they could instead be falling.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I find this to be a compelling argument. However, I think the time we spend leaving our companions alone increases the risk that Mr. Gamerman will come and kill our companions. I don't think it's unlikely that other threats will come by either-- this is a dungeon world, traders (which means this place is accessible to people) pass by, there are beasts and whatnot lying about. Even if it doesn't kill them, the risk for permanent damage (which will reduce combat effectiveness and force us to expend power using current healing options or find other healing options) also increases.

Additionally, if a short term large increase in risk of death is acceptable, then why is a generalized increase in risk of death unacceptable? My understanding is that spreading the risk overtime will make it more manageable, especially with the new skills that we're acquiring and the time we're given to plan.
 
I remembered something. Money can be traded for goods and services. Like people helping us accelerate our healing process. Presumably this is Voyaging Realm currency.
 
Okay, Mire Wolf folks, do we want Shine Bright or Pristine Star? Right now we're divided about equally on it, but together we outnumber the other plans.
 
Orm Embar said:
Hm... the ability to deploy Gisena's cooking without fear of collateral damage isn't to be underestimated. With our long-term build seemingly prioritizing Rank, we'd be able to designate whoever we want. Perhaps we could even exclude Vanguard members from the Affliction? Selective mitigation's the first step to weaponization. On the other hand, we don't actually have seven Arete to spend on Vanguard right now, even Tyrant's +1 doesn't get us there. Will try to crank out an A&T reaction sometime tomorrow, but I'm fairly bushed.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

You can go ahead and vote for it, if we don't have enough Arete by the deadline then we'll go with a fallback option.

cheesyme said:
@Rihaku how would Second Stage effect Undying Vanguard? Could our closest companions gain a Wraithform if we grab both? Its not terribly important due to Arete costs, but its still an interesting idea.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It would probably increase their Constitution to a degree that made them twice as hard to kill compared to previous, and improve their regeneration a bit as well.

Conjured Blade said:
I remembered something. Money can be traded for goods and services. Like people helping us accelerate our healing process. Presumably this is Voyaging Realm currency.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

It's the currency of the traders' society, but given that they're traveling around the Voyaging Realm it's presumably accepted in many places.
 
Byzantine said:
Okay, Mire Wolf folks, do we want Shine Bright or Pristine Star? Right now we're divided about equally on it, but together we outnumber the other plans.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...

I'm leaning towards Shine Bright(Assuming the other option is Second Stage), currently voting for an undying vanguard build though. A secondary health pool gives us a hedge for whatever the next fight is while Pristine Star would still be restoring us to full health.
 
Conjured Blade said:
I'm leaning towards Shine Bright(Assuming the other option is Second Stage), currently voting for an undying vanguard build though. A secondary health pool gives us a hedge for whatever the next fight is while Pristine Star would still be restoring us to full health.
Click to expand...
Click to shrink...
Undying vanguard would be a good pick... we were not personally seriously injured as well. That bit is sufficient for me to decide against it for now.

And yeah, other option all the wolf voters agree should be Second Stage.
 
Reader mode
You must login or register to reply here.
Remove ads
Back
Top