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A Simple Transaction I

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[X] Sleep In

Being able to use even a small amount of pressure is huge if we get into a fight right now, and even if we don't, this is the first step towards turning Exhausted into merely Tired anyway. Mandatory pick, in my opinion - none of the alternate options are anywhere near as time sensitive.

[X] Save 3 Options

Saving three options is an excellent middle ground - it can commit us towards saving for something, while still being flexible with our remaining Arete in case of immediate need.

[X] Total Eclipse

Total Eclipse is incredibly versatile and powerful, and is almost certainly the best pick if we want Gisena to keep scaling with us for a long time to come, so it basically comes with implicit Curse Mitigation as a freebie bonus.

Once and Future gets far more efficient the later we pick it up, so I don't think it (or an equivalent) makes sense as our first EFB purchase, and while a pure potential EFB like Ruling Ring is obscene early, I'd like to pick up sufficient power to be ahead of the Apocryphal Curve for a bit before saving up for it.

[X] [Pillars of Creation]

This just fits waaaay too well with our build. All else aside, it's a hyperbolic time chamber, letting us fit more progress into each moment of "outside time". It also gives us and our companions a full restore every month, including of shit like Decimator Drain or just plain burnout. It also also can provide Huntress targets in a pinch, if we can't find something outside that qualifies.

[X] [A Thousand Cuts]

We've got defense more or less settled in the short term, so getting a baller offence to go with it rounds out our build excellently in the short-term - Plus, of course, the ability to kill things "stronger than us" with an alpha strike will do excellent things for our overall growth through experience.
 
Top 3 is all 25 pointers right now. Seriously. Tally incoming.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 30, 2020 at 1:23 PM, finished with 203 posts and 37 votes.
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[X] Finally Get in the Robot
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Pillars of Creation]
 
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The currently leading EFB equivalents when omake power, arguments and votes are all considered are Pillars and Once and Future. Certainly fine choices! But both somewhat narrow - Pillars in time, Once and Future in utility. They would pair well in the long term with a 7 point option that yields substantial utility, like Azure Moon!
 
Adjusting my vote to avoid catastrophe.

[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Pillars of Creation]

I still want the other 2 I had earlier, but Maw and Cuts are both 7 pointers so at least one can be reasonably gained next time we have a chance at it. We are walking into exactly the trap Rihaku explicitly warned us about where we put Arete down on too many things we'll never actually manage to get.
 
Rihaku said:
But how separate is that realm from the Evening Sky?
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Fair point, even if that was possible it'd be inefficient to double dip. My eyes were just briefly clouded by visions of Reality Marble style antics, stealing away enemies into the realm of Evening. The idea of a territory benefiting from Accretion that we can take with us, something that isn't left behind when the Geas inevitably yanks us away to our next task and invalidates the investment, is awfully tempting. I really want Hunger to get healed too.. but having read over the WoG posts:

[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Once And Future]
[X] [Pitiless Maw]

Sleeping is explicitly the safest option and vali has a point about not operating heavy machinery while impaired. I'd assumed we could substitute Versch's Rank for ours, but apparently that's not a sure thing, so it'll have to wait a little longer. Keeping Pitiless Maw because if we continually seek out targets to maintain AHS, we're going to take wounds, and we'll need a method of healing. After having let Feast of Lives slip through our fingers, we should commit to getting one. It's probably too much to hope that with enough slaughter Pitiless Maw will eventually regenerate Hunger's arm/lung/eye, but it costs no stamina and buffs our ruinous offense as well.
 
Tally incoming.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 30, 2020 at 2:19 PM, finished with 216 posts and 41 votes.
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[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Once And Future]
[X] [Pitiless Maw]

Gimme that damn healing please.
 
Once and Future is a decidedly odd choice for our first EFB equivalent - its true power isn't really apparent until we achieve a much higher Astral Rank, so it won't let us outscale the Apocryphal Curve nearly as much as an EFB that provides more up-front return on power. Pillars has a similar issue, only even worse - most of it's power is tied up in utility, curse mitigation, and improved progression. I strongly believe that of the 25 Arete options on offer, Total Eclipse is the most prudent to purchase first.
 
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Once And Future]
Redshirt Army said:
Once and Future is a decidedly odd choice for our first EFB equivalent - its true power isn't really apparent until we achieve a much higher Astral Rank, so it won't let us outscale the Apocryphal Curve nearly as much as an EFB that provides more up-front return on power. Pillars has a similar issue, only even worse - most of it's power is tied up in utility, curse mitigation, and improved progression. I strongly believe that of the 25 Arete options on offer, Total Eclipse is the most prudent to purchase first.
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Nah, big dick powerlevel >* pansy elf magic and shit

*This is "greater than" through infinite escalation of infinite escalations etc
 
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Feast of Lives vs Pitiless Maw is an instructive comparison. Feast of Lives, gained from Experience, cost 2 picks and significant opportunity cost. Pitiless Maw costs 1 pick and 7 Arete.

In most combat situations, Pitiless Maw is categorically superior, and by a fairly large margin
In terms of utility, Feast of Lives is superior (moderate regen even when not fighting, rare Decimator's mitigation)

On balance we can say the Pitiless Maw is better, but not strictly so. Even in combat there are situations where Feast of Lives would be superior (ranged duels). If one had to make a direct analogy, how much Arete do you think Feast of Lives would be worth? Assuming you're not bound by the 2/7/25 cost structure.
 
[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Once And Future]

Since my synergy ideas aren't valid I'll vote to keep it simple. External modifiers are amazing for our growth so let's just take this and push for high Rank. It's likely far cheaper to get past 8-9 this way than by grinding it out directly and reaching those heights will vastly simplify our conquering of the human sphere.
 
Wolfy said:
[X] Save 1 Option
[X] [Once And Future]

Nah, big dick powerlevel >* pansy elf magic and shit

*This is "greater than" through infinite escalation of infinite escalations etc
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As a first 25 Arete option, it doesn't offer as much in the way of immediate power as if you took it after you'd already reached Rank 7+, though...
 
Rihaku said:
On balance we can say the Pitiless Maw is better, but not strictly so. Even in combat there are situations where Feast of Lives would be superior (ranged duels). If one had to make a direct analogy, how much Arete do you think Feast of Lives would be worth? Assuming you're not bound by the 2/7/25 cost structure.
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Probably 5-10, I'd say. It would be worth more due to the mitigation, but that comes with a nasty drawback that reduces the price proportionally.

But while in melee combat Maw's healing can only be matched by something that can heal a significant portion of the damage we can deal out trivially.

One thing a lot of Maw detractors are missing is it does not require the opponents be on our level. Meaning we can go smash a few hundred 1-10 HP mooks to instantly heal to full if we kill the big bad and aren't at full health after.
 
Redshirt Army said:
Once and Future is a decidedly odd choice for our first EFB equivalent - its true power isn't really apparent until we achieve a much higher Astral Rank, so it won't let us outscale the Apocryphal Curve nearly as much as an EFB that provides more up-front return on power. Pillars has a similar issue, only even worse - most of it's power is tied up in utility, curse mitigation, and improved progression. I strongly believe that of the 25 Arete options on offer, Total Eclipse is the most prudent to purchase first.
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As far as upfront returns on power go, Once and Future is easily the best option. Even in the lower Ranks, a two Rank advantage can allow someone to kill hundreds of trained individuals and that gap becomes a yawning chasm over time. And this is to say nothing of the manifold utility benefits Pressure can provide, as we've seen in these past few updates. It improves literally everything about us, from our social to our scheming to our combat to our ability to fucking fish.

This doesn't even require any training or work. As we've seen with Seram, top-tier Graces require a solid amount of training and practice to become truly good. Even if Total Eclipse has hypothetical access to the thousands upon thousands of potential abilities; that it requires a time investment for many of them sharply decreases its value, especially with Hunger. Meanwhile, we don't actually have to change our plans whatsoever to account for Once and Future, it's just a straightforward improvement that augments all of our actions and becomes better over time.

And of course, I really want to know about our hidden enemies.
 
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Rihaku said:
On balance we can say the Pitiless Maw is better, but not strictly so. Even in combat there are situations where Feast of Lives would be superior (ranged duels). If one had to make a direct analogy, how much Arete do you think Feast of Lives would be worth? Assuming you're not bound by the 2/7/25 cost structure.
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I'd say it depends on when you're buying it. I probably wouldn't pay more than three/four for it in most cases. But if you're sitting at 9.5%/10% reduced then naturally the value skyrockets, with a spectrum in less drastic scenarios beyond that.
 
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