A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Rihaku
The Internet
Advancement from Experience is different from Arete-based advancement, and not necessarily inferior. Consider Unshattered. How many Arete would it cost to replicate this effect? Unshattered would have taken you from Rank 3.5 to over Rank 7 at the cost of all your Experience (+To Shatter Heaven, +Permanent Maiming) from the dragon fight.
- Location
- Pindorama
To the Argument that a pure potential EFB is better than reserving Pillars, let me say this. If all you want is power, EFBs are essentially fungible; just for long term potential EFBs we have Dead but Dreaming, Total Eclipse and Ruling Ring; and Once and Future King arguably applies too. But there's literally no other option so good at mitigation like Pillars. Not even close. If this vote is about saving for the future; why not save the option that provides unique benefits rather than something we are much more likely to get an analogue of anyway? Any pure potential EFB is the same under this argument, so why save? We will definitely be offered something like it in the future. We already have been with Dead but Dreaming, even.
BTW @Conjured Blade voting for Azure Moon and Maw together is terrible strategy if you prioritize the former; the latter is it's greatest competitor and has more omake power to boot; I wasn't able to contribute much this week. So you might want to change your vote again.
BTW @Conjured Blade voting for Azure Moon and Maw together is terrible strategy if you prioritize the former; the latter is it's greatest competitor and has more omake power to boot; I wasn't able to contribute much this week. So you might want to change your vote again.
Don't you see the obvious inconveniences of needing fights, shit, needing to lands hits to heal? It's fine just as long as as ride the wave, but we can get into an obvious death spiral. Seal-based healing is much more reliable. We just seal the wounds and are in shape. We likely don't even need to study much since it will be boosted by Hunger when we use it in combat; Experience is Experience. It will be much better long-term and we won't even get Maw until we win our next fight anyway, we might not even need healing by that point.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
@BrainInAJar Thanks for the warning.
[x]Sleep In
[x]Save 3 Options
[x][Azure Moon]
[x][A Thousand Cuts]
[x][Pillars of Creation]
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- Location
- Poland
- Pronouns
- He/Him
[X] Sleep In
[x]Save 3 Options
[X] [Dead But Dreaming]
[X] Total Eclipse
[X] [Pillars of Creation]
I like sleep. I value sleep. And dreams.
Of course I want our broken hero to be healed by dreamful rest.
[x]Save 3 Options
[X] [Dead But Dreaming]
[X] Total Eclipse
[X] [Pillars of Creation]
I like sleep. I value sleep. And dreams.
Of course I want our broken hero to be healed by dreamful rest.
- Location
- Pindorama
So like, currently the winning vote would be Cuts, Eclipse and Pillars. Which is fine by me, really. In fact, since no one took @Conjured Blade's offer anyway I will vote for that just for the consolidation. Sorry, buddy. Maybe I will change if the situation changes.
[X] Sleep In
[X]Save 3 Options
[X] [A Thousand Cuts]
[X] Total Eclipse
[X] [Pillars of Creation]
- Location
- USA
[X] Finally Get in the Robot
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Ruling Ring]
[X] [Pitiless Maw]
[X] Total Eclipse
Upon further soul searching, I'm thinking the Maw is pretty good short term because of our Defense. Let's us grind down tough opponents, and makes them bringing allies a risk for them.
It's healing that scales, even if we never pick another option that increases it we will raise our Might by sleeping alone.
Then we get Power/Potential in Ruling, (I see that it skews much more to the Potential side) and unlock a robust system in Total Eclipse.
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [Ruling Ring]
[X] [Pitiless Maw]
[X] Total Eclipse
Upon further soul searching, I'm thinking the Maw is pretty good short term because of our Defense. Let's us grind down tough opponents, and makes them bringing allies a risk for them.
It's healing that scales, even if we never pick another option that increases it we will raise our Might by sleeping alone.
Then we get Power/Potential in Ruling, (I see that it skews much more to the Potential side) and unlock a robust system in Total Eclipse.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
For Clarification, I was offering 2 Vote IOUS with 1 veto option to people who take a 3 option ticket containing Azure Moon and Pillars of Creation.
From a more economic standpoint...
A 2-3 25 pointer ticket impedes our ability to adapt to changing circumstances with no prospect of immediate benefits. Remember that Rihaku's probably going to have several other awesome 25 pointers/EFBs by the time we reach 24-25 Arete to compete with whatever option you pick, and that the other 24 pointers are competing with what you picked, leading to wasted Arete.
From a more economic standpoint...
A 2-3 25 pointer ticket impedes our ability to adapt to changing circumstances with no prospect of immediate benefits. Remember that Rihaku's probably going to have several other awesome 25 pointers/EFBs by the time we reach 24-25 Arete to compete with whatever option you pick, and that the other 24 pointers are competing with what you picked, leading to wasted Arete.
Where's this idea that current (read: low-level-accessible) opportunities effectively reflect those available at higher levels coming from? Maybe the reason we've been getting tons of healing and pure power options is because we're still lacking them.
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- Location
- Pindorama
I think that the luster of EFBs has made people forget that we do in fact need to rule the Human Sphere for 50 years, and therefor need as much mitigation as possible, especially since we chose Huntress' Moon. Pillars is literally one of the better answers we've seen and it's absolutely irresponsible to not secure access to it. This is on to of all the other benefits it provides, like safe progression, powerful Artifacts and Reagents, immortality for any companions we have...
I can only work with available information. We can suppose all we want, but the tendency is that healing was offered in nearly all power updates; and pure power in literally all of them, sometimes multiple different flavors of it. Even under your logic, we'd still be lacking healing and pure power anyway, so they'd still be offered? Like, we have Fell-handed strike already, do you think we will never get another opportunity to upgrade it? The evidence is just against those two things being rarer than a new magic system.
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OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
It is a legitimate question whether or not we will make use of Pillars of Creation or Total Eclipse when considering the possibility of further Rihaku EFBs. The probability of us getting to use both of them at once seems astronomical, given the time, thread discipline requirements, and alternative options to distract us. Taking more than 1 25 pointer in a 3 option ticket is as I keep harping on, killing our ability to adapt as circumstances change.
Ultimately, we are always going to have sweet, high Arete options available. Saving just reduces our flexibility. You might think 'I really want these sweet 25 arete options', but are you not going to regret that when we slay some major enemy and get another shiny dangled in front of us? We are never going to want for shinies to buy. The only reason to lock something in now is if we plan to pursue a synergistic approach and we're going to get more use out of that particular option.
Remember, any arete spent on an option we don't end up buying before the quest end has been completely wasted. Assuming infinite runtime we'd surely get around to buying all saved options, but that would be needlessly optimistic.
[X] Save 1 Option
Remember, any arete spent on an option we don't end up buying before the quest end has been completely wasted. Assuming infinite runtime we'd surely get around to buying all saved options, but that would be needlessly optimistic.
[X] Save 1 Option
- Location
- Pindorama
Yeah, which is why my only commitment is locking Pillars, since it has such extreme synergy with Huntress' Moon and I'm willing to vote for anything for that. It's the only option in which I fear nothing similar to it would be proposed again since it's so specific in what it does. We will be offered pure potential EFBs again, we can be sure of that. So let's lock what we actually fear not finding again.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
My offer of 2 markers with 1 veto still stands, though the terms have changed. Right now though I'm just trying to get a 2 7 pointer ticket with one of the options being Azure Moon. Which EFB is no longer material given the current circumstances.
Edit: At the moment though I need to go to bed.
[x]Sleep In
[x]Save 3 Options
[x][Azure Moon]
[x] [A Thousand Cuts]
Edit: At the moment though I need to go to bed.
[x]Sleep In
[x]Save 3 Options
[x][Azure Moon]
[x] [A Thousand Cuts]
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A neutral supposition is a poor basis for counter-argument. Confirmation bias combines poorly with low sample sizes.
Under my logic, trashy healing powers will keep clogging up our options until we either stop taking damage or buy ourselves some white magic. Under yours, we'll just keep cycling our upgrades until we get what we want anyway. Neither hill is one Hunger's likely to die on - which is my point, it's a weak jab.
It's disingenuous to try and frame those high-end options which provide overt combat advantages as mundane or easily-available, because that lack is the biggest - and quite possibly only - weakness of Pillars as an option, not a secret strength in the form of rarity.
[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] Total Eclipse
[X] [Once And Future]
[X] [Ruling Ring]
Really, Ruling Ring is the most appealing of these options, but it looks out of the running and all of them deserve an extra vote.
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] Total Eclipse
[X] [Once And Future]
[X] [Ruling Ring]
Really, Ruling Ring is the most appealing of these options, but it looks out of the running and all of them deserve an extra vote.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Counterpoint One: We can keep Lord Hunger doing 'interesting things' until he literally drops dead from exhaustion or is murdered by an enemy exploiting his vulnerability. It has become very clear from context that periodically voting for rest is not an optional thing we can avoid doing. if we vote for him to do so, then Lord Hunger will push himself and then not take time to heal or recuperate, until we lose the quest from it.
Counterpoint Two: Interesting events are a conserved quantity. If Lord Hunger sleeps in today, then we miss a cool scene in the morning where he does X instead of getting rest, but we can predict confidently that we will fast-forward to the next scene where some other interesting thing happens instead.
- Location
- Pindorama
????
How is it a weak jab? Or rather, what is the problem with stating that healing is not rare then? We'd get a healing power eventually under both models. Are you saying that more mitigation opportunities than raw power will be provided later so we need to assure a potential EFB now? If so I disagree; the tendency is for curses to be exponentially harder to mitigate; especially one that grows with our power like Decimator. I definitely think that the mitigation provided by Pillar is more valuable than just the power of the other EFBs, even if the mitigation isn't perfect.
Pillars does increase our Progression through fights and reagents though, so you can't say it lacks power, though it would be less than the options that focus on it, of course. My point is that getting more power is easier than getting more Curse mitigation, so Pillar is indeed rarer in that sense.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Acknowledged, in that if we find ourselves fighting an enemy we can't hit, or too badly injured to participate in a fight with any reasonable degree of safety, we lose access to our main healing method.
On the other hand, the sealing-based healing may be slower or otherwise less convenient than Maw-based healing.
Also, there is a difference between "we may not be injured at that time" and "we may not need a healing ability at that time."
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
Upon reflection, it might make more sense to take Maw now, as well as pursue other forms of healing in the future-- redundant sources of healing have value in that we heal faster, we have options in case one or more sources of healing are mitigated/nullified
