@Sickul, @LordOfMurder: Can you please change your votes to not have a - in front so they tally with the rest? Just for the sake of the autotallier.

Synergies between magic systems are really goddamn good you guys; Pitiless Maw doesn't even compare. It front loads power when, must I remind you, we can only pick it when we have already won another fight; it provides zero help right now. Meanwhile, a whole new system of progression for just 7 Arete is steal. It's extremely doable compared to any other long term option and therefore way safer. It can provide everything Maw does and much more with just a little investment.
Constant, effortless, thoughtless, in-battle healing is not nearly that easy to get. And is far stronger than you are giving it credit for. Particularly given we don't get to use our Hunger trick to make our start into the magic, so it's going to take a significant amount of time to learn to a useful level.
 
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I think pillars is the worst of the 25 arete options. It's nice to have but doesn't offer us long term growth like the two extra magic systems or immediate power like the ring and blade options. It's just quality of life.
Being able to produce worthy opponents gives us some long term growth. Additionally, its monthly restoration of our mind, body, and soul keeps us at our peak ability.
Also it's so much quality of life that I believe we'll be better able to focus on power and potential once we take it.

Even though the winner isn't decided by plan I can still make my vote into a plan, right?

Seems kind of at odds since this is for long term planning!
no that would sabotage how he wants to tally it

Synergies between magic systems are really goddamn good you guys; Pitiless Maw doesn't even compare. It front loads power when, must I remind you, we can only pick it when we have already won another fight; it provides zero help right now. Meanwhile, a whole new system of progression for just 7 Arete is steal. It's extremely doable compared to any other long term option and therefore way safer. It can provide everything Maw does and much more with just a little investment.
we'll need to do a lot more than win one fight to get that additional magic system in a useful state; better to bring our existing powers to a more mature state first.
 
If Hunger weren't Exhausted, he would be pretty strong right now. Superhuman APP, very high CHA, superhuman physical stats, Rank 3.75, power of Ruin, Unaging, Evening Sky. That's pretty good! Unfortunately the very most important part of that (Rank 3.75) is disabled, but the rest still works.
 
I fail to see what makes Pillar so good. Do we really need a 25 Arete option to help us Sate Hunger when we literally just took a Curse Mitigation that should make that much easier to do in reality?

It's versatile, I see that. And it lets us get a mini vacation.

Total Eclipse is very interesting to me. I do like it in my build as it let's us transition from Warrior to Warrior/Mage, and we know the Graces give a lot of physical benefits so it should make for a better Warrior.

It's just really hard for me to give up ++Prog.
It's not just about mitigation. You get seven days to train(or in this case, fight) in perfect environment, you can arm yourself with superlative gear, challenge superlative opponents and then heal and do that over and over again, you can genuinely rest, you can generate findross for Gisena etc. It would be even better if we had Retinue, but oh well.
 
I realized a potential synergy between Azure Moon+Pitiless Maw: Storing our overflow health leached from enemies when we're at full health, so we can use it to heal ourselves later.

Remember, this just locks in an option as a recurring 6 pointer in future votes. There's always the possibility the Immediate power attack based 7 turned 6 pointer gets taken first when we're able to actually vote on it with the Arete to spend.
 
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I realized a potential synergy between Azure Moon+Pitiless Maw: Storing our overflow health leached from enemies when we're at full health, so we can use it to heal ourselves later.

Remember, this just locks in an option as a recurring 6 pointer in future votes. There's always the possibility the Immediate power attack based 7 turned 6 pointer gets taken first when we're able to actually vote on it with the Arete to spend.

From what I gather most people are looking at taking a 7 cost into a 25 cost. There are certainly a lot of potential interactions there!

It's not just about mitigation. You get seven days to train(or in this case, fight) in perfect environment, you can arm yourself with superlative gear, challenge superlative opponents and then heal and do that over and over again, you can genuinely rest, you can generate findross for Gisena etc. It would be even better if we had Retinue, but oh well.

But will he really do so when the temptation to rest and enjoy life is so strong!?
 
Hey, you all think that Maw plus Cuts is super strong because it gets us healing and multiplies the power of our strikes? Guess what, Seals can also do that, and also a billion different things. We know from past votes it has combat uses too; so as long as we put an initial investment in learning the basics it can benefit from Hunger too. Training is bad only compared to Hunger-boosted progression, we still are roughly equivalent to a normal person when it comes to training. And we have high intelligence and guaranteed talent for it to boot. So that initial start-up cost is far from bad. Let's put our intelligence and preparation to use!
It's a time-commitment thing. We still have to get in the robot, set up a patsy to do our political shilling, hunt down monsters to kill for [A Hunger, Sated], and not end up so exhausted our non-Tribulation Apocryphal doesn't feed us to a Kaiju while we're half-asleep. We could probably make time for learning the Seven Seals if we were willing to feeding it with Hunger. But then its cost multiplies as its stronger effects and synergies are barred behind further Arete expenditures.

It's a good magic system, but it's also explicitly competing with every other thing that we could do with our time. When our Tyrannical quality makes contact with advanced civilization's Total Weenie attribute it's going to be super distracting. Monster Hunting will be a problem until we can scrape together enough tin foil and chewing gum to craft the Pillars of Creation. And what if there's a time limit on how long we can go without communing with Verschlengorge? None of these are guaranteed to become an issue, but any of them could. That's the pressure you're working against here.

for the love all that is holy can you please change your votes to be in line with the format of the more common ones?
k
 
Constant, effortless, thoughtless, in-battle healing is not nearly that easy to get. And is far stronger than you are giving it credit for. Particularly given we don't get to use our Hunger trick to make our start into the magic, so it's going to take a significant amount of time to learn to a useful level.
It's not like Maw is Wolverine-type healing anyway, we do actually need to hit our opponent to heal. It doesn't help us if we are still wounded after. While as long as we level Sealing, we can take any amount of wounds and them just seal them away or even heal them though conceptual interpolation, even mid combat, eventually. Not as immediate, but far higher utility and cap.

And we still train at a mortal's pace. A very intelligent mortal who has high talent in the art, however. Making the art do something useful so we can level it through Hunger will likely not take long at all. We are supposed to be avoiding fights anyway. While not convert that extra time into that?
we'll need to do a lot more than win one fight to get that additional magic system in a useful state; better to bring our existing powers to a more mature state first.
We need to win fights to get these anyway, and you can at least improve Seals through training. It's better than just a linear improvement.
It's a time-commitment thing. We still have to get in the robot, set up a patsy to do our political shilling, hunt down monsters to kill for [A Hunger, Sated], and not end up so exhausted our non-Tribulation Apocryphal doesn't feed us to a Kaiju while we're half-asleep. We could probably make time for learning the Seven Seals if we were willing to feeding it with Hunger. But then its cost multiplies as its stronger effects and synergies are barred behind further Arete expenditures.

It's a good magic system, but it's also explicitly competing with every other thing that we could do with our time. When our Tyrannical quality makes contact with advanced civilization's Total Weenie attribute it's going to be super distracting. Monster Hunting will be a problem until we can scrape together enough tin foil and chewing gum to craft the Pillars of Creation. And what if there's a time limit on how long we can go without communing with Verschlengorge? None of these are guaranteed to become an issue, but any of them could. That's the pressure you're working against here.
I mean, we are in this situation exactly because we pushed too hard with our time. We can't actually go from high impact option to high impact option, that's unfeasible, as we are learning right now. So being able to do something less crucial like studying Seals might actually help here, just as something else the questers could choose if nothing else. We are not suffering for a lack of time here.
 
Even though the voting results are counted by line, we the voters have the capability to vote in plans and therefore put together a more coherent vote assuming we are able to get enough to vote for it.

I think that's what we need to try and do, because otherwise we could be left with a end result that put Arete in places most don't want to.
 
[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] Pillars of Creation
[X] Total Eclipse
[X] [Dead But Dreaming]
 
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If you shill Sealing at least do it right. It allows us to seal tiredness caused by Edge, allowing us to both spam it and apply that same tiredness on opponent - which, apparently, stops them from using Rank at some point.

You know what:

[X] Sleep In
[X] Save 3 Options
[X] [A Thousand Cuts]

[X] [Azure Moon]

Third can be whichever 25 option.

Maw is super underwhelming for 7 points.
 
On the subject of Pillars, a Lunar Month is roughly 27 to 29 days according to Wikipedia. So it's a small month when it comes to our ability to use it. It also is a source of immortality/decimator's protection for our companions as previously mentioned.

@Wolfy Edge? Which thing are you referring to there?
 
If you shill Sealing at least do it right. It allows us to seal tiredness caused by Edge, allowing us to both spam it and apply that same tiredness on opponent - which, apparently, stops them from using Rank at some point.

The Exhausted condition refers to spiritual exhaustion - that caused by spamming too many Pressure-intensive effects i.e. blade projection and uber fishing.
 
Hmm,I think sleep get us do "Super mode" ,Basiclaly our shounen attack again when enemy try to kill us.

Rihaku suggest that we choose sword,so I think we will need that shounen attack soon.
 
On the subject of Pillars, a Lunar Month is roughly 27 to 29 days according to Wikipedia. So it's a small month when it comes to our ability to use it. It also is a source of immortality/decimator's protection for our companions as previously mentioned.

@Wolfy Edge? Which thing are you referring to there?

Note that, as with any other source of indirect mitigation, the effectiveness of the Pillars' anagathic serums on your companions' lifespans will eventually dwindle with time and repeated exposure to the Decimation. So it's not a permanent solution on either front, though it can certainly push back the hours significantly.
 
Remember people, this vote is for the Long-term options you want to see. We are offered immediate power every progression vote and have examples of two healing options so far, arguably three. If it's about securing the long term, the benefits of Azure Moon are very difficult to replicate and uncertain to ever be offered, while healing and more power seem to be common, since they're so tied to Hunger's thematics. We don't need to take Azure Moon immediately; we can just take whatever immediate power options we are offered first. Then we can spend it once we are free to do so, and since it only costs 7 it's much more feasible than any other long term power option. It's a good midgame upgrade in that sense.
Note that, as with any other source of indirect mitigation, the effectiveness of the Pillars' anagathic serums on your companions' lifespans will eventually dwindle with time and repeated exposure to the Decimation. So it's not a permanent solution on either front, though it can certainly push back the hours significantly.
Can we strategize to only use it when we need it and hunt in the world otherwise to sate our Hunger or is the decay fixed no matter what we do?
 
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I think I just happened upon a pretty insane synergy for two options I don't like.

We could combine Sealing and Pillars to basically create simulations that allow us to train noncombat abilities at Hunger speeds.

How? We set up a situation that is appears to be high stakes and possible where we currently are. We Seal our memories of setting it up so that for all we know it is real. We catch the lochness monster with a rod, convince the Accursed to not smite us, whatever is needed to train the ability we want with the Hunger bonus.

In all likelihood there's a reason it won't work, maybe the ring Hunger will judge it as not qualifying or something.
 
To filter Rihakus stuff out of the vote tally try starting at post 4099

Edit: @Rihaku Tally incoming
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 30, 2020 at 5:10 AM, finished with 125 posts and 20 votes.
 
Maw is super underwhelming for 7 points.
I think you really underestimate the benefits of healing whenever we attack something. With maw we can do all sorts of crazy suicidal things that would otherwise be a death sentence. Guy too tough to beat conventionally? No worries! Just let him impale you with his weapon and stab him while his guards down! Evenly matched with someone and it's a grinding fight to the death? Not a problem every time we hit them we restore ourself and we leave the fight just as healthy as we entered it!

Given one stab wound was enough to lower our effectiveness by almost 10% I don't think we should be discounting such an effective healing option. Especially when due to the nature of our power we have to be constantly fighting. Without maw we're going to get ground down over time.
 
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