Tally incoming.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 29, 2020 at 3:37 PM, finished with 221 posts and 40 votes.
 
She only has one dress, though, how's she supposed to spare another for the fish?!

You underestimate her... sewing skills.

At least empirical self-assessment means she's aware of her 'exceptional' cooking skills. Can't help but note she went from accepting defeat to dragging us off to assist with the fish in a short exchange.

She accepted defeat in one exchange and swiftly began another! Speed, the essence of battle.

The Duchess having a palace isn't a surprise, exactly, but it raises my estimate of her importance.

One has to hold a lot of territory to be a Duchess in an empire of twenty-seven hundred worlds!

Don't call it a grave, it's the future you chose. All you can do now is earn the name you've committed to, make it feared and respected across the Human Sphere. Lord Hunger's the sort of title that's either ridiculous or terrifying.

By the time it's terrifying, will there be anyone left to eat and/or ridicule you!?

So, this is a super mode, and a really strong one. Useful for those circumstances when the Apocryphal throws major events at us. We could get this in fairly short order, but maybe we'll get a limited time offer that's better.

Yup, a defensive super mode that only makes you Tired is great for intermittant Aprocryphal procs and strong enemies alike!

This is utterly ridiculous at high Astral Rank, as each cumulative rank is higher value then the last. This is a strong lategame purchase.

It's quite formidable even at your current rank! Going immediately to the high 5s in Accretion Rank would vastly increase your might.

The Progression boost is unique, and very powerful in the long term. Stats are nice as well. The problem with this is that it's expensive, and also gives value over the long term. If we've been saving Arete to get to 25 we're probably drifting behind on the Apocryphal Curse Curve, and thus will want something that gives more immediate value for our 25 Arete.

On the other hand, if we manage to pull this off, it improves our scaling, increasing our chances to outscale the Apocryphal in the long-term. It's high-risk high-reward.

With its combined powers of worldly influence and enhanced Progression, the Ruling Ring lets you take the fight to the Apocryphal in its own battlefield! Take care lest you lose your fingers, though, especially with a Narsil analogue so close!

Also, it's cheap, super versatile, and broadens our scope of action. Honestly I think this is the best option offered, because it gets around the weakness of Accretion: only being able to purchase things that fit our legend and artifacts. Another magic system opens up our options in a big way.

To be fair, between your three artifacts and Rank itself you have a very broad range of feats already covered.

Most importantly though, it has super-high synergy with Huntress's Moon. This can be used once a month, and can probably generate a hunger sated target. Guess what, Decimator's is done with permanently. This is super increasing my enthusiasm for Huntress's Moon, I hope the vote hasn't closed yet. If we get Huntress's Moon this is absolutely the best 25 Arete option.

Like most forms of non-mainline mitigation it will probably work well at first, then slowly spawn fewer and fewer Huntress targets over time. Still, an incredibly valuable asset in the long run.
 
One Ring to Rule Them All.

The Sauron : Melkor :: Tyrant : Forebear parallels continue. And I just realized that we have a ruined blade and are going to be king, making us Aragon. So then the only question is... does that mean that in this analogy the mechs are the elves? Do the mechs have pointed ears? Or are the other mechs like lesser rings?

I'm sure there's elves around here somewhere, even if they have different names. We just have to find them.

...

[X] Fierce Vigor
[X] Spend No Arete (top 2 picks)
[X] Decimator - Huntress' Moon: Impairs all conventional mitigation attempts by 40%, but dramatically increases the number and availability of targets for A Hunger, Sated. Targets will always be at least minimally challenging or in some way exceptional.
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation: Reduces the difficulty of encounters by roughly 10%.
[X] Extra +Gisena

Vigor is the best of the fish options. Huntress moon and weakened apocryphal curse mean plenty of targets who are strong enough to feed our Hunger and stop the decimation but weak enough to not end the quest. Also can you really call it a decimation if it's taking less than 10%? And finally, Gisena over Arete because we can always earn more arete but the same can't be said for more Gisena.
 
The Sauron : Melkor :: Tyrant : Forebear parallels continue. And I just realized that we have a ruined blade and are going to be king, making us Aragon. So then the only question is... does that mean that in this analogy the mechs are the elves? Do the mechs have pointed ears? Or are the other mechs like lesser rings?
The Forebear's Blade's ultimate is also called Once and Future, with obvious Arthurian connections. It certainly doesn't give the impression that the Forebear is truly dead.
 
So, I've caught up now, so lets talk more about the 25 Arete options! EDIT: And Rihaku posts when I'm mostly done and I have to re-write some of it. Ah well.

Once and Future is the most immediate power of the three. It's straightforward and hits like a truck. And I think there's a hidden benefit as well - the description says we'll catch a glimpse of the Forebear's true history - that might give us lore on the Isekai world, and possibly information on the Hidden Masters who we are sworn to defeat!

However, this option has a few problems. The Astral Rank buff is more valuable higher our Astral Rank already is, and in the short term there are probably far cheaper options for increasing Astral Rank. Furthermore, it's likely going to be a very, very long time before the Hidden Masters are relevant to the story. Possibly beyond the scope of this quest! As such, I think Once and Future should not be the first 25 Arete that we shoot for. It's true benefits are most important later on. On the other hand, immediate power on a Progression-type is always good, especially immediate power that does not make it harder to get more power.

Ruling Ring has the highest potential power of the options. The boost to Progression is just really good, delivering a deluge of experience we can spend on tons of things. It's an all-around boost that gets better the longer we have it. The main problem I see with it is that we'll be going through quite a dry spell to save up for 25 Arete, and then it'll take a few fights afterward for the Ruling Ring to really pay off. This is kind of an issue because it threatens us to lag behind on the Apocryphal because we're not spending Arete on immediate power, and it also threatens falling behind on curse mitigation, because you can bet the best options for that will be locked behind Arete expenditure.

Now, Pillars of Creation is super good for support, even offering freedom from the Decimator for a time, if not permanently. It also offers long-term power growth via worthy opponents, without the risk of facing said opponents in normal reality - remember, the Apocryphal Curse is only at 1/3rd strength within the Evening Realm, and the Realm will also happily provide healing items to use after every fight. The Pillars do have the downside that they don't offer any use in directly solving problems in the normal world, and we'd need to plan well to get maximum use out of it.


Now, another thing to discuss - should we try to rush a 25 point option? I would say not right away. We have the Apocryphal Curse breathing down our necks, I'd prefer to grab some low-hanging fruit before we take a shot at one of those immortal peaches high up in the tree. However, once we have a few more 2 Arete options, I think we could take a shot at one of the 25 Arete options.

The main problem is that we're definitely going to be offered more "This update only" options, and some of those might be really valuable. Just look at Evening Sky - offered for one update, 7 Arete, gives really good defenses against everything, lets us improve said defenses for XP (not Arete!), and it unlocked Winter Moon and Pillars of Creation. These kind of offers are impossible to predict and will disrupt any plan we make regarding Arete saving. It'll come down to our ability to judge if a given offer is worth delaying our big super-upgrade.
 
Once and Future is the most immediate power of the three. It's straightforward and hits like a truck. And I think there's a hidden benefit as well - the description says we'll catch a glimpse of the Forebear's true history - that might give us lore on the Isekai world, and possibly information on the Hidden Masters who we are sworn to defeat!

True. An important in-character consideration, if deliberating which path to research!
 
Went back and switched from Arete to Gisena for the bonus bit; with the context that it retroactively makes the scene have much more depth and meaning between the two of them, and because the non-Arete Spending avenue seems to be ahead, I feel this is a more meaningful decision.
 
How much storage space does Letrizia have in there anyway. 3 peoples supplies for at least two months. Plus all the munitions Gisena's messing with. Is this stuff just in the part of the aftermarket modifications/repairs we saw done to the armor or does it dig space into the flesh itself like the piloting system?

[X] Fierce Vigor
[X] Spend No Arete (top 2 picks)
[X] Tyrant - Trusted Counsel
-[X] Trust Verschlengorge
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation: Reduces the difficulty of encounters by roughly 10%.
[X] +0.5 Arete


I'll switch from direct Tyrant mitigation to Counsel since it has a better chance. As for the Confidant, Gisena is quite smart, socially adroit, and has a good framework for the curse. So she's fine and could come up with something good...

But... a theoretical rank 10 with prior experience about Cursebearers edges her out I feel, it is a gamble though. With Gisena we're almost sure to get something relevant immediatly and has good staying power. George on the other hand might not even care to speak enough to convince us, and if he does give something I think it'll have more late game relevance than early. I still feel like fishing for something unique though, but won't be bothered about a likely Gisena win if Counsel gets into contention.
 
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[X] Fierce Vigor
[X] Spend No Arete
[X] Decimator - Huntress' Moon
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation
[X] Extra +Gisena

Have been pretty convinced by arguments against Tribulation, and new information from Rihaku makes me want to retroactively turn that soulgazing scene into a romantic one
 
[X] Fierce Vigor
[X] Spend No Arete (top 2 picks)
[X] Decimator - Huntress' Moon
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation: Reduces the difficulty of encounters by roughly 10%.
[X] Extra +Gisena
Have been pretty convinced by arguments against Tribulation, and new information from Rihaku makes me want to retroactively turn that soulgazing scene into a romantic one
Keikaku dori
 
Huntress' Moon is obviously an extremely powerful mitigation option. It doesn't seem great for us though. Are we really ready to walk the path of constant combat to mitigate our curse? Not as we are, for sure.
 
Huntress' Moon is obviously an extremely powerful mitigation option. It doesn't seem great for us though. Are we really ready to walk the path of constant combat to mitigate our curse? Not as we are, for sure.

We need to try to tailor our build for constant combat anyway though. I'd say that's the least significant cost to it as a mitigation option. Having to invest significant time tracking down targets, potentially needing to pick investigatory/divination options that are otherwise meh, and the fact that it eventually falls off in frequency even more than the potential rareness it already might occur at while degrading other mitigation options forever are the biggest drawbacks.

Direct mitigation on the other hand does very little in the near term. It makes it a lot more practical to eventually just fully nullify the drain down to almost nothing long term though, by stacking maybe three direct mitigations to hit 6.25 and collecting a host of effects similar to Feast you could be down to 1-2 percent merely by the time you're only at Universe Squared levels thinking optimistically.
 
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Huntress' Moon is obviously an extremely powerful mitigation option. It doesn't seem great for us though. Are we really ready to walk the path of constant combat to mitigate our curse? Not as we are, for sure.
Apocrypha and Hunger already exist though. Murdering level-relevant opponents is what we are doing anyway, so we don't really need to change our gameplan to benefit from Hunter.

Being a murderhobo solves everything, basically.
 
Hm! It looks like +Gisena is in striking range of a comeback, with a considerable number of high argument / omake posters supporting it, though Arete has substantial omake power of its own.

How much storage space does Letrizia have in there anyway. 3 peoples supplies for at least two months. Plus all the munitions Gisena's messing with. Is this stuff just in the part of the aftermarket modifications/repairs we saw done to the armor or does it dig space into the flesh itself like the piloting system?

The mech's 250 feet tall and quite the lighting bruiser, with a juggernaut-like frame that's heavier than most Armaments without sacrificing mobility. It's got plenty of storage space, especially with her hypertech food that's both reasonably appealing and extremely nutritious per unit volume!

Apocrypha and Hunger already exist though. Murdering level-relevant opponents is what we are doing anyway, so we don't really need to change our gameplan to benefit from Hunter.

Being a murderhobo solves everything, basically.

Note that the requirements for Huntress' Moon do include notability or challenge, but by themselves do not suffice. For example, you could have to target a highly guarded nobleperson, or a prominent artist of some kind.
 
Huntress' Moon is obviously an extremely powerful mitigation option. It doesn't seem great for us though. Are we really ready to walk the path of constant combat to mitigate our curse? Not as we are, for sure.

We committed to an eternity of war the moment Vendetta won.

-------------------------------------------------------------

Moving on to other thoughts...

The status quo cuts into our hunger growth rate two ways, first from weakening our Apocrypha delivered fights, and secondly from Hunger Sated procs leading to 10% or possibly 25% penalties to our Hunger Growth rate if we take conclusion. We need to have Arete handy to find ways to remain ahead of the curve so we should take the 0.5 Arete.

Also, Rihaku's reminder about possible moral considerations from Huntress Moon has put me into indecisiveness mode again when it comes to direct mitigation vs huntress moon. We're playing the Rihakuverse equivalent to Hitman but motivated by highly utilitarian goals. On another note now that I think about it, the more Arete we save for Conclusion, the fewer potentially innocent people we need to kill for the sake of suppressing our affliction.
 
Note that the requirements for Huntress' Moon do include notability or challenge, but by themselves do not suffice. For example, you could have to target a highly guarded nobleperson, or a prominent artist of some kind.
Wait, how does Hunter actually works? My assumption was that it just makes people who would otherwise not proc Sated do so, effectively passively increasing Sated proc chance per Hunger proc. However, this post rather implies the we either get an explicit target whose death would trigger Sated, or some sort of sense which lets us sense people who we can kill for Sated?
 
Or, the pirate reminded us of the Tyrant and triggered a response from us, which ultimately sated Hunger. So the Moon increases the chances of provoking a visceral response from us that also leads to Hunger being sated with killing the reflection of our enemy.
 
Tally incoming.
Adhoc vote count started by Conjured Blade on May 29, 2020 at 6:28 PM, finished with 239 posts and 41 votes.
 
Let's be clear about it. Tribulation fits our current build. It allows us to fight in the wilderness until the Curse procs and then have an interrupted month to go into civilization and scheme and plan and woo with a guarantee that nothing will show up and throw our plans way off course.

It allows us to go looking for fights with level appropriate stuff and know something way outside the realm is going to try and ruin our day. It allows us to plan, which is a core strength of our build.

Huntress makes a lot more sense for a build that is a combat monster right now and has less hope of conventional mitigation. Why make it harder for us to mitigate Decimator when we have Gisena, Versh, and the social to convince people to help us?

Sometimes you have to choose an option that fits better over one that's more potentially powerful.
 
Let's be clear about it. Tribulation fits our current build. It allows us to fight in the wilderness until the Curse procs and then have an interrupted month to go into civilization and scheme and plan and woo with a guarantee that nothing will show up and throw our plans way off course.

It allows us to go looking for fights with level appropriate stuff and know something way outside the realm is going to try and ruin our day. It allows us to plan, which is a core strength of our build.

Huntress makes a lot more sense for a build that is a combat monster right now and has less hope of conventional mitigation. Why make it harder for us to mitigate Decimator when we have Gisena, Versh, and the social to convince people to help us?

Sometimes you have to choose an option that fits better over one that's more potentially powerful.

The problem with Tribulation is when Apocrypha decides to start stockpiling credibility though. No Apocrypha proc for a month leads to a giant round of us playing when will the bass drop, make us start stockpiling power at all costs to prepare, and it being potentially horrific when it happens.

Edit: Aaand I've realized that's theoretically possible with Apocrypha right now. Implications not fully processed at the moment.
 
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Hm. Looking at the total argument and omake power, Extra Gisena+ is actually ahead right now! As expected of the Nullity Sorceress, even nulling your Arete gains!
 
The problem with Tribulation is when Apocrypha decides to start stockpiling credibility though. No Apocrypha proc for a month leads to a giant round of us playing when will the bass drop, make us start stockpiling power at all costs to prepare, and it being potentially horrific when it happens.

Edit: Aaand I've realized that's theoretically possible with Apocrypha right now. Implications not fully processed at the moment.
The difference is that Tribulation makes those challenges more difficult while also passing up the chance to make them easier through direct mitigation.
 
Well friends, it looks like no Arete is going to be expended this time. I wonder what the reactions will be when you enter society and the Tyrant's Curse triggers in full! Let us hope the consequences do not fall upon your companions as well, and that it does not lower their regard for you.

Can someone find the last post where I have Arete?

Or, the pirate reminded us of the Tyrant and triggered a response from us, which ultimately sated Hunger. So the Moon increases the chances of provoking a visceral response from us that also leads to Hunger being sated with killing the reflection of our enemy.

It doesn't do that, but interesting thought!
 
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