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A Simple Transaction I

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[x] King's Blood
[x] Spend No Arete (top 2 picks)
[x] Decimator - Huntress' Moon
[x] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation: Reduces the difficulty of encounters by roughly 10%.
[x] +0.5 Arete
 
I do think people are underestimating the value of having some Tyrannical mitigation at this stage - while you're not in civilization yet, there are still societies within the Voyaging Realm that have their own internal laws and customs, and many would be capable of taking you as you are now! If you want to leverage your power of Thick as Thieves and +CHA from Evening Sky most effectively, either of the Tyrant mitigations could help. Direct Mitigation is quite useful when you already have overwhelming personal presence and force of spirit, and people are more likely to be polite and deferential in the first place! And Counsel has obvious uses as well. As a Progression-type, power is often the easiest thing to gain over time. Mitigation however is a precious near-irreplaceable treasure.
 
Rihaku said:
Mitigation however is a precious near-irreplaceable treasure.
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This is an oblique but emphatic warning against Huntress, which impedes other mitigation approaches. If Huntress only interfered with Decimator mitigation I might be willing to consider arguments, but given the information we have now my vote will have to change.

[X] Fierce Vigor: The terrible might of its thrashing sinews, fit to part wave from shore. Gain one copy of [Echo of the Forebear], granting +Might and +Agility.
[X] Spend No Arete (top 2 picks)
[X] Tyrant - Trusted Counsel - A single trusted Lieutenant can attempt to convince you that one law or custom would be sufficiently valuable to comply with that you may tolerate it for a time. The custom may be broad, but not overly so, and may not be changed once your mind is set.
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation: Reduces the difficulty of encounters by roughly 10%.
 
Direct mitigation of decimation feels like a very bad pick. It changes nothing in practice. We'd still need to find a consistent gamechanger like huntress' moon after taking that. It's basically just praying that Rihaku gives us a break because the alternative is a depressing quest.
 
Graah said:
It's basically just praying that Rihaku gives us a break because the alternative is a depressing quest.
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We mix arguments about play decisions for in-universe vs. out of universe reasoning all the time in-thread, but...at least some of the decisions we make as players in this quest are about optimizing for the player character. None of us are thinking that we'll be playing out trillions of years of effective in-universe micromanagement, but that's not a reason to avoid options which would look good from Hunger's perspective.

Over enormously long time scales in real life, a 12.5% reduction in life force absorption is nuts, especially since the scale of Decimator increases with our level of personal power.
 
Waffling when it comes to fishy rewards, but I think I'll take those +stats for now. I'm sure El Stats would approve from beyond its grave.

[X] Fierce Vigor

As for Mitigations, while the choice isn't easy, there are some I'd exclude right off. First is Indenture - it makes no sense to spend this time-sensitive Mitigation opportunity on something that won't be required for decades at the very least. I also don't really want to Mitigate Decimation before we've seen what Verschlengorge has to offer, and since we have a month of Hunger Sated, this can keep. Ah, too bad the option for Insight is gated behind the insurmountable strike-through!

So two Curses are really left, which is really for the best, since Arete is very, very precious, and I don't want to expend it on every single thing we come across. Which options to choose then?

[X] Spend No Arete
[X] Tyrant - Trusted Counsel
-[X] Trust Verschlengorge
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation

Now hear me out! There have been hints strewn all over the place that Versch can Mitigate Decimation, seeing how it has Affliction itself. Judging from what we've seen and Letrizia's somewhat uncaring attitude, I'd posit that its Mitigation involves temporarily sealing a great part of its power in exchange for reducing (or even eliminating?!) Decimation percentage. Which is actually a pretty great Mitigation for us, since we don't really train, even if it comes with its own problems.

But! Nothing is free in this life. While 'Trust Verschlengorge' might look like a joke option, I think that getting the most out of its Mitigation involves agreeing to follow some kind of Foremost law, because that's how these things go. Well, even then Gisena would probably be best for the option, but I'm tickled at the image of Verschlengorge trying to convince us of accepting the rules for our own good.

In comparison to that Apocryphal Mitigation is simpler. Yes, please make the world suck 10% less, Mistress Gisena.

[X] Extra +Gisena

+Gisena on the other hand is worth the 0.5 Arete, since we're told it will make a substantial difference. Maybe we'll get a significant upgrade like when our companions in EFB reached a certain point in our relationship!
 
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Zampano said:
This is an oblique but emphatic warning against Huntress, which impedes other mitigation approaches. If Huntress only interfered with Decimator mitigation I might be willing to consider arguments, but given the information we have now my vote will have to change.
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Huntress' Moon Technique does only interfere with Decimator mitigation, yes.
 
DarkSideBard said:
Over enormously long time scales in real life, a 12.5% reduction in life force absorption is nuts, especially since the scale of Decimator increases with our level of personal power.
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Not really. It increases the amount of time we can spend in a region, but not by a lot. We'd still have to move out within a decade without something like Huntress' Moon to actually stop the curse from progressing. The longer the time scale the more relevant this distinction becomes. We could spend 2,000 years in the same place hunting periodically to keep Decimator's at bay, but no realistic amount of direct mitigation will allow that. This is even more true if you want to spend trillions of years increasing our personal power.
 
Y'know what's also nuts? Absorbing zero life force thanks to due diligence. If IC Decimator was chosen because of it's variety of alternative mitigation options, then from an IC enhancing those sources of expernal mitigation makes the most sense. We have to be on top of that anyway because while a 12.5% is very significant decrease, it won't stop the area we're in from becoming a wasteland. Only directly stopping the Affliction does that. Therefore, sating our Hunger more reliably is a complete game changer. It makes proactively going out to stop the Affliction a viable option.

Even if we can't do it all the time; being able to stop our drain for a month if we put in the effort has huge strategic implications as well, not to mention it makes diplomacy way easier. We know the Human Sphere has made some peace with having the Decimator's Affliction, but that may not be true of all polities sin the Voyaging Realm. Being able to turn off our mitigation for a while would make meeting them and staying in their territory way easier.
 
But do we need to make a decision that will permanently make other Decimation Mitigations attempts worse by 40% now? When we still don't know what other opportunities there are in the first place and have another possible source of Mitigation close at hand?
 
Unelemental said:
But do we need to make a decision that will permanently make other Decimation Mitigations attempts worse by 40% now? When we still don't know what other opportunities there are in the first place and have another possible source of Mitigation close at hand?
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In theory we could pass up mitigating it at all, but we absolutely can't mitigate it twice in the time we have in this world, and the voting dynamic doesn't really allow for voting against mitigating a specific curse at all.

Besides, why would we need conventional mitigation with Huntress' Moon?
 
Unelemental said:
But do we need to make a decision that will permanently make other Decimation Mitigations attempts worse by 40% now? When we still don't know what other opportunities there are in the first place and have another possible source of Mitigation close at hand?
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We are being offered the option now. We don't know when or where these additional mitigation options will appear; we have a lead with Verchlengorge, but it's just that. Who knows when we will get another mitigation offer?

Moon also benefits us the earlier we have it; getting it now while we still can expect encounters is better than picking it up later when we might need to go out of our way to hunt for stuff. Not to mention all the lifeforce we'd save. We have been berated constantly for prioritizing the long term and being greedy; why not heed those words now? Moon doesn't even make us weaker. No amount of direct mitigation will make the place we reside in not be a barren wasteland; we need alternate mitigation sources like this. Given it's something we need anyway and can benefit from immediately, why not take it now? A bird in hand is worth two in the bush; especially considering we might not have time to check out the bush, or it needs a complicated setup to catch the birds in it or something. You get the analogy, I hope.

Anyway, the point is direct mitigation will enough, so why not just pick this now?
 
[X] King's Blood
[X] Spend No Arete (top 2 picks)
[X] Tyrant - Direct Mitigation
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation
[X] Extra +Gisena

I've come around to just leaving Decimation for a bit to make use of our sated time to see what kind of options we have available. Taking Direct tyrant instead because I think it offers the most flexibility, it pairs well with our CHA build as well, as we have an easier time overawing people into acting suitably respectful.

I switched to Gisena really just chasing after the mystery box off her advancement. I don't think this will do much about it directly but a better relationship might help once we have the means.
 
Skelm said:
In theory we could pass up mitigating it at all, but we absolutely can't mitigate it twice in the time we have in this world, and the voting dynamic doesn't really allow for voting against mitigating a specific curse at all.
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I think we can take our time before we start voting strategically.

BrainInAJar said:
We are being offered the option now. We don't know when or where these additional mitigation options will appear; we have a lead with Verchlengorge, but it's just that. Who knows when we will get another mitigation offer?

Moon also benefits us the earlier we have it; getting it now while we still can expect encounters is better than picking it up later when we might need to go out of our way to hunt for stuff. Not to mention all the lifeforce we'd save. We have been berated constantly for prioritizing the long term and being greedy; why not heed those words now? Moon doesn't even make us weaker. No amount of direct mitigation will make the place we reside in not be a barren wasteland; we need alternate mitigation sources like this. Given it's something we need anyway and can benefit from immediately, why not take it now? A bird in hand is worth two in the bush; especially considering we might not have time to check out the bush, or it needs a complicated setup to catch the birds in it or something. You get the analogy, I hope.

Anyway, the point is direct mitigation will enough, so why not just pick this now?
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We don't benefit immediately, because Decimation is blocked for a month. And the option is offered by Gisena, so while it might take more time if we don't pick it here, she'll give us something like it later on.
 
There's two months of travel, currently sating our Hunger gives us one month free, to get the other month without drain we need to kill something again. Also remember that mitigation is exponentially harder the more you have mitigated to an absurdly hilarious degree, so if Gisena offers this choice again it will either be much, much later or be far, far worse. We basically get T1 mitigation for free of all our Curses while with her, so we need to choose carefully what that mitigation will be.
 
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Hmm, well, that's true. I guess I'm simply betting on Versch having better options for this specific Curse thanks to being more specialized, but I see where you're coming from.
 
[X] King's Blood
[X] Spend No Arete
[X] Tyrant - Direct Mitigation
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Direct Mitigation
[X] Extra +Gisena

Actually, time to think positive. I'm honestly quite curious to see what the result of a ++Gisena scene will be and she's honestly been a lot of fun, despite having her entirely work pretty much doomed so I'm happy to up her social link. Our Arete generation has been pretty solid anyway but those + options can't just be gained by more hard work. Not mitigating the Decimator immediately at least gives us an idea of what we're working with when it comes to Versh's options while the value of our Tyrant mitigation can be improved by mere stat ups. Seems pretty solid to me.
 
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Alright, let's do a short Q&A:

[X] Fierce Vigor

Q: Gee Wolfy, but we were told that healing is our weaknesses!
A: That was before we got Evening Sky. Right now only way we can get hurt is if enemy manages to DPS their way through it, so having enough damage to kill them before they manage to do so is more valuable than healing. Besides, Vigor has additional benefits of allowing us to beat stronger foes and lasting indefinitely

Q: But what if we get wounded!
A: If damage gets through despite increased power and agility we would take even more damage with just healing. Healing also won't help our allies. Which is not to say that we don't want restoration, but merely temporary one is not relevant there

[X] Apocryphal Curse - Tribulation

Q: Wow, but we will have to deal with Apocryphal Curse every month!
A: Yup, it means that it's impossible for curse to prep for two years to fuck us with something extra nasty. Amazing, ain't it?

Q: But 10%!
A: It's like making Apocrypha our bitch is really fucking good so there needs some price to compensate. Month makes it nice and manageable so a 1/10 on top of that is not that bad. Besides, imagine being Apocrypha-chan and having to come up with new challenge each and every month? She is a diligent girl and you meanies are making her job more difficult. Obviously, this would also increase our growth due to how Hunger works

Q: But Rihaku told me that it could proc day to day!
A: It can proc day to day now too. Besides, 1 day buildup means relatively minor proc anyway

[X] Decimator - Huntress' Moon

Q: Oh no Wolfy, it will shut down any other attempts at mitigating this curse!
A: Which only means that we get to focus on other Curses instead. We have more Curses than opportunities to mitigate them, so less mitigation on one of them is a perfect price to pay. And, as with Apocrypha, you pay the price because base option is really good

Q: But it will make use hunt powerful things to defeat?
A: I mean, that's fine? We already gain a lot from killing powerful things thanks to Hunger, so that is what we want to do anyway

Q: But what if we can't find opponents?
A: Then Curse is not mitigated for some amount of time. We don't need to actually proc this every month to make it work, even something like a month in seven months is already a net gain. Likewise, Apocryphal curse is helpful here, as we can expect constant stream of relevant opponents

Thank you for joining my Q&A session boys, be sure to take some drinks on your way out!


Alright, memes aside, options that have insane synergy > options that don't. Our build already has ways to directly benefit from Apocrypha procs and now we can make it completely consistent and we can tie Decimator's mitigation to that as well? Yes please.
 
Wolfy said:
[X] Apocryphal Curse - Tribulation

Q: Wow, but we will have to deal with Apocryphal Curse every month!
A: Yup, it means that it's impossible for curse to prep for two years to fuck us with something extra nasty. Amazing, ain't it?
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Reread the option. 1 month is a minimum, not a maximum. It can absolutely wait 2 years since 1 proc in two years is still not more than once a month.
 
If I could get a guarantee that we'd pursue the Devourer plot thread post-haste and not be distracted by any shinies on the way, I could see waiting on Decimator to fully understand our options; but I don't think I can ask that of the voterbase. Hell, I can't ask this of myself, before Rihaku revealed EFB Dao I was absolutely sure nothing he could show would sway me form pursuing Philosopher-King, but then I read All Paths and lost instantly.

Point is, if you want an option to be chosen, you gotta pre-commit to it. Since there's absolutely no assurance the thread won't just pursue what it finds the coolest at the moment, I don't want to take chances, especially on something as crucial as Decimator mitigation. Pick it now when it's available or there's a good chance we pick it never.

Orm Embar said:
Unless I'm severely misreading the option, that's not how it works? It 'will not trigger more than once per month, starting next month'. Not triggering at all and saving its slightly-increased credibility is a valid response to that constraint.
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Wolfy said:
Q: Wow, but we will have to deal with Apocryphal Curse every month!
A: Yup, it means that it's impossible for curse to prep for two years to fuck us with something extra nasty. Amazing, ain't it?
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Redshirt Army said:
My understanding is that with Tribulation, the curse can't proc more than once in a month, but it doesn't have to proc once a month - it's still fully allowed to save up for several months to hit us with a big one
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It broke my heart when I found out too.
 
BrainInAJar said:
If I could get a guarantee that we'd pursue the Devourer plot thread post-haste and not be distracted by any shinies on the way, I could see waiting on Decimator to fully understand our options; but I don't think I can ask that of the voterbase. Hell, I can't ask this of myself, before Rihaku revealed EFB Dao I was absolutely sure nothing he could show would sway me form pursuing Philosopher-King, but then I read All Paths and lost instantly.

Point is, if you want an option to be chosen, you gotta pre-commit to it. Since there's absolutely no assurance the thread won't just pursue what it finds the coolest at the moment, I don't want to take chances, especially on something as crucial as Decimator mitigation. Pick it now when it's available or there's a good chance we pick it never.
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But the Hero already decided to get in the robot soonish? The voterbase might get distracted by shinies, but we can only do that when the options are offered, and the Hero sounds like he realizes that Armament+Decimation is an immediate priority,
 
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