Rihaku
The Internet
Not Spilling gives Arete, which could alleviate Arete Debt or prevent it. And Arete Debt is quite dangerous, though not to the degree where you'd end up net weaker after taking a 7 Arete option.
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
Not Spilling gives Arete, which could alleviate Arete Debt or prevent it. And Arete Debt is quite dangerous, though not to the degree where you'd end up net weaker after taking a 7 Arete option.
Wonderful, we ended up in Escalation Evangelion. Now, while Lertrizia being a relatively well-adjusted Asuka makes me smile, I'm starting to wonder when the inevitable Mind-Rape will come.
[X] Keep Your Own Counsel
[X] Substantially
Not too keen on becoming Armament's engine at the moment - Lertrizia might be a sweet girl, but there are elements in her government who will likely try to exploit the situation.
Honestly, we should make our own inquiries about Verschlengorge to test the waters - how do you harness a Curse? What kind of Curse are we talking about? Where do they come from? Aren't Curses aimed at humans usually?
Given our Charisma, we should be able to bluff our way through.
[X] Keep Your Own Counsel
[X] Substantially
Not too keen on becoming Armament's engine at the moment - Lertrizia might be a sweet girl, but there are elements in her government who will likely try to exploit the situation.
Honestly, we should make our own inquiries about Verschlengorge to test the waters - how do you harness a Curse? What kind of Curse are we talking about? Where do they come from? Aren't Curses aimed at humans usually?
Given our Charisma, we should be able to bluff our way through.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
[X] Keep Your Own Counsel
[x]Substantially
[x]Substantially
Is there, like, an omniversal support group for the Doom of Asuka? Akhena did the same thing in Terrascape, only in the opposite direction. And with Xeno Genocide Eschatelion instead of Neuron Genesis Cathedrelion, which makes all the difference in the world.
Projectile
Thinking of Rabbits
- Location
- USA
[X] Spill
[X] None
I wasn't on board with spilling, but then I realized we just mitigated the curse massively. I think Hunger can capitalize on the difference between turbomurder now and turbomurder next month to get her to not want to shoot us.
Of course, it's a +Letrizia option, which kinda implies that I shouldn't have been worried about that in the first place? But there's no way I'm gonna trust that, so nyeh.
The text of None is basically my thought. Although, Fisher King would accomplish the same if we have the Arete. But Arete debt is scary, not gonna vote for it unless we get to 8 Arete with maximum effort.
[X] None
I wasn't on board with spilling, but then I realized we just mitigated the curse massively. I think Hunger can capitalize on the difference between turbomurder now and turbomurder next month to get her to not want to shoot us.
Of course, it's a +Letrizia option, which kinda implies that I shouldn't have been worried about that in the first place? But there's no way I'm gonna trust that, so nyeh.
The text of None is basically my thought. Although, Fisher King would accomplish the same if we have the Arete. But Arete debt is scary, not gonna vote for it unless we get to 8 Arete with maximum effort.
Zampano
🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈🏳️🌈
- Location
- Simping for DSB
[X] Spill - There's no way this is a coincidence. The only question is, is this the work of the Accursed, or of the Apocryphal Curse? Whatever the case, you need answers. Tell Letrizia a reasonable amount about your own circumstances, the power you command and the Curses you bear. [+Letrizia]
[X] Of Fishermen, A King - The sharp bright sword of will that cuts to the heart of these waters and brings their mightiest bounty to heel! [+???, +Legendary Fish, +Gisena, -1 Arete or Exhausted condition]
Social links! Social links for the manipulative protagonist!
[X] Of Fishermen, A King - The sharp bright sword of will that cuts to the heart of these waters and brings their mightiest bounty to heel! [+???, +Legendary Fish, +Gisena, -1 Arete or Exhausted condition]
Social links! Social links for the manipulative protagonist!
If we do take Keep and anything other than King of Fisher we can, most likely, manage to snag some of 7 Arete options when the consolidation hits. So:
Or just keep on saving to win Hard Mode: No Arete achievement.
[X] Of Fishermen, A King
I think I'll update my vote to this. If Keeping Our Own Counsel is required to make Epic FIshing viable, then I'm fine with that. Otherwise, Spilling should be interesting.
I think I'll update my vote to this. If Keeping Our Own Counsel is required to make Epic FIshing viable, then I'm fine with that. Otherwise, Spilling should be interesting.
Rihaku
The Internet
I haven't checked everything, but I'd be surprised if you guys didn't hit 6 Arete before tomorrow, as you were fairly close before the update. 7... would be a stretch, but possible.
Just be glad you never met the version of Nilul that was a warstrider pilot!
- Location
- USA
If we're lucky she might even take off her shoes!
On second thought, we probably have to max out our relationship with her for a benefit so good.
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I don't think Dread but dreaming is necessarily super popular I think it just acts as a convenient banner for the posters who want to conserve arete for future sweet blurbs to rally around.
Fisher King is much better than substantially as long as we can muster up an extra arete! If we take substantially we'll get the tired debuff and won't even have the comfort of a legendary fish! Plus the ever mysterious triple question mark, who could possibly resist it's charm?
Fisher King is much better than substantially as long as we can muster up an extra arete! If we take substantially we'll get the tired debuff and won't even have the comfort of a legendary fish! Plus the ever mysterious triple question mark, who could possibly resist it's charm?
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
Previous slippers have been decidedly lacking in offensive power having been nonchalantly struck down by Lord Hunger himself, but perhaps Zea's slipper contains hidden potenial?
Also will we ever solve the case of the fate of Gisena's other slipper!?
Also will we ever solve the case of the fate of Gisena's other slipper!?
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Rihaku
The Internet
Hm... there's a considerable amount of omake power assembled for the non-Spill / non-Fisher King options, if they can get some votes this will be closer than it looks!
Letrizia wears boots. And Gisena had her other slipper! As she said, "Right now? Just the one."
Letrizia wears boots. And Gisena had her other slipper! As she said, "Right now? Just the one."
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
[X] Keep Your Own Counsel
[X] Of Fishermen, A King
Adjusting vote. Net cost, -0.5 Arete. The fact is that Hunger rewards going all out, so we end up stronger for this. I don't see how Legendary Fish is relevant unless we can eat it for more curse mitigation or something.
[X] Of Fishermen, A King
Adjusting vote. Net cost, -0.5 Arete. The fact is that Hunger rewards going all out, so we end up stronger for this. I don't see how Legendary Fish is relevant unless we can eat it for more curse mitigation or something.
In theory. In theory, that is a thing we could do, and yet Freedom and its kindred options rarely win. However many dimensions over, no doubt Warmain's weeping.
Now I'm wondering about the logistics of storage in Verschlengorge. It's basically her home, Letrizia was living out of the back of her Armament, which can't be fun with the Affliction. I hope communing with the mech helps with isolation.
Still better than Gisena, who's lost not only all her worldly possessions but her entire world. We've got to get that girl some power armor, Nullity would be so broken if only she didn't have the same outfit for ballroom and battlefield.
- Location
- USA
It's so difficult to resist the mystery box, though. What if it does something like turn the Forebear's Blade into the sword/fishing rod combination weapon, with the ability to reel em and keel em? Something like that has to be worth at least 25 Arete, so getting it here for 1 would be the steal of a lifetime.
- Location
- Pindorama
[X] Spill
[X] Substantially
Think this is good. Not just because she might know something about mitigating Decimator's Affliction, but she also has studied this Realm's pseudo-Accretion. There's a chance that she might know of sources that can enhance our own growth! Not only that, but it sounds like the Armament's Pressure shenanigans are something we can learn to imitate; Imagine traveling through the Astral Realm all on our own!
So let's dive right onto the Letrizia SL. Saves an Arete point over fishing the King too.
Also if we let her measures our powers we can finally have a character sheet. You've been holding out on me @Rihaku!
[X] Substantially
Think this is good. Not just because she might know something about mitigating Decimator's Affliction, but she also has studied this Realm's pseudo-Accretion. There's a chance that she might know of sources that can enhance our own growth! Not only that, but it sounds like the Armament's Pressure shenanigans are something we can learn to imitate; Imagine traveling through the Astral Realm all on our own!
So let's dive right onto the Letrizia SL. Saves an Arete point over fishing the King too.
Also if we let her measures our powers we can finally have a character sheet. You've been holding out on me @Rihaku!
I am actually not opposed to getting Fisherman King. Like, I do want to get 7AP options, but only because they are explicitly more effective than 2AP options, so getting 2AP is somewhat of a waste.
Still, I think that we can sort of see the value of Arete. In general, quantifying the absolute value of each choice is very difficult given our lack of knowledge about the setting and possible synergies, short/long term value etc. Even then, though, we can try to quantify them:
Obviously, Echo allows us to gain more power by doing things ourselves. As such, if Echo would allow us to win a fight and get additional two stats in those 15 months, it could be said that it performed better than Slumber. Of course, there are many other factors to consider.
Still, we have baseline of 1.5 stat points per 1 Arete. Now, let's compare that to 7AP options:
As an aside, I just realized that resistance to suffocation means that we can use Evening Sky to go to the outer space/in water. Useful.
The question of value, here, is how high would you rate resistance? Just resistance, ignoring ability to upgrade Evening Sky. 2 Arete? More?
As for King Fisher option, as long as absolute value we gain out of it is higher than 1.5 stats, it should be fine. Note that Gisena+ is somewhat irrelevant as you have Letrizia+ in the other option. Likewise, choosing to Spill effectively cost us 0.75 of a stat, traded away for a Letrizia+.
Still, I think that we can sort of see the value of Arete. In general, quantifying the absolute value of each choice is very difficult given our lack of knowledge about the setting and possible synergies, short/long term value etc. Even then, though, we can try to quantify them:
Undying Echo is very basic stat upgrade that has no specific synergies with anything, so it allows us to easily map Arete to value - in this particular case, we get 1 point of Con for 0.66 Arete. Argument could be made that Con is somewhat more rare of a stat and that getting three costs more, but lets ignore that for now. On the other hand, you have Slumber of Aeons, which increases our slumber by 1 hour but allows us to save time, and generate approximately 2 stats per month, doubling. After fifteen months that would be 8 stats, which would be approximately 5.5 Arete of value.
Obviously, Echo allows us to gain more power by doing things ourselves. As such, if Echo would allow us to win a fight and get additional two stats in those 15 months, it could be said that it performed better than Slumber. Of course, there are many other factors to consider.
Still, we have baseline of 1.5 stat points per 1 Arete. Now, let's compare that to 7AP options:
Evening Sky gives us 4 stats, which would be about 2.66 Arete - but Charisma is a rare stat, and Protection appears to be rare too. Lets assume 3.5 Arete for stats to be on the safer side. For other 3.5 we get additional progression system for our Accretion as well as super resistance to virtually everything(including nullification, so we can combo with Gisena).
As an aside, I just realized that resistance to suffocation means that we can use Evening Sky to go to the outer space/in water. Useful.
The question of value, here, is how high would you rate resistance? Just resistance, ignoring ability to upgrade Evening Sky. 2 Arete? More?
As for King Fisher option, as long as absolute value we gain out of it is higher than 1.5 stats, it should be fine. Note that Gisena+ is somewhat irrelevant as you have Letrizia+ in the other option. Likewise, choosing to Spill effectively cost us 0.75 of a stat, traded away for a Letrizia+.
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- Location
- USA
I'm curious on why you think Charisma is a rare stat. We've seen and taken it before, on an option that was available to be taken multiple times. That isn't the case for Con and Protection.
Is Charisma a mental stat? Meaning sleeping increases it?
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Reaction to Fisher King, word count once I Libreoffice(Edit: 564 Words).
Lucky fish. When you're under Apocrypha I suppose moments like this are the stuff of life.
You're both genre-savvy for different reasons this time. And we recently proced Apocrypha so there shouldn't be anything super dangerous here unless we really fark up.
With a Sword? His Bare Hands? I'm getting Craftsman needs no Tools vibes off Lord Hunger right now. It's also another sign of Lord Hunger's long time spent as a Guerilla combatant when you look at it with his continued wariness.
I'm remembering that Suzaku meme/translation failure from Code Geass right now. If you've seen it you know exactly which one I'm talking about, and let's just leave it at that.
The Tyrant's doom meets cliche tsundere behavior. Though Letrizia does have a point when I think about it more.
Nervous? Apocrypha can fark with you even worse once you're in civilization I'd imagine(especially if we don't mitigate Decimator's to the best of our ability), enjoy this while you can.
Odd to hear somebody say it that way instead of using percentages.
There's some layers to what Letrizia is saying. On the surface, Lord Hunger being reasonable won't mean he doesn't attract trouble because the Apocryphal curse. On a deeper level though, the fact he was crazy enough to take up the curse voluntarily means Letrizia is entirely correct.
He's got the right idea. I get the feeling that if Lambdadelta from Umineko shared her advice on Logic Error survival with him, he'd understand completely.
A well lampshaded infodump and a monument to the heavensmiting ambition so important to success in the Rihakuverse. Sunk cost fallacy is a thing though don't forget that.
Wait a minute you didn't burn your memory of Japanese cartoons for power?
Anime tropes are a multiversal constant then?
Wow that's unfortunate. Poor Letrizia.
I'll take your word for it Lord Hunger, I don't I'm qualified to comment on this *Social awkwardness intensifies*.
Diagetic game mechanics, nice. Also Accretion's principles being multiversally known means we need a backup power source incase we meet another Abduction user.
This is reminding me of those educational infodump eyecatches that show up in Anime. Like the Hunterpedia in Hunter x Hunter.
I guess you couldn't take that knowledge for granted with somebody from a pre-interstellar civilization.
Well, among other things, that justifies Mech's coming out on top on the cliche mech vs tank argument. We've got some Gurren Lagann in the Evangelion here.
Yeah we definitely need a second magic system.
Power armor that puts one in Rihaku protagonist territory. That merits a drawn out god damn, ideally with terrible wordart.
That is ominous information, and if I had to quantify it musically, I'd put it at Whirlpool of Fate from Fate Stay Night. Hopefully it's just some Elder Cursebearer's mitigation scheme but this isn't just ordinary paranoia fuel, this is advanced paranoia fuel.
I can see both sides here. Hopefully we get enough Arete in time for Conclusion to be available, it should make spilling go significantly better if we do that.
It is not worth the Arete cost to fish seriously when Conclusion is within reach. There's also all the really stupid Code Geass jokes that can be made here.
Lucky fish. When you're under Apocrypha I suppose moments like this are the stuff of life.
You're both genre-savvy for different reasons this time. And we recently proced Apocrypha so there shouldn't be anything super dangerous here unless we really fark up.
With a Sword? His Bare Hands? I'm getting Craftsman needs no Tools vibes off Lord Hunger right now. It's also another sign of Lord Hunger's long time spent as a Guerilla combatant when you look at it with his continued wariness.
I'm remembering that Suzaku meme/translation failure from Code Geass right now. If you've seen it you know exactly which one I'm talking about, and let's just leave it at that.
The Tyrant's doom meets cliche tsundere behavior. Though Letrizia does have a point when I think about it more.
Nervous? Apocrypha can fark with you even worse once you're in civilization I'd imagine(especially if we don't mitigate Decimator's to the best of our ability), enjoy this while you can.
Odd to hear somebody say it that way instead of using percentages.
There's some layers to what Letrizia is saying. On the surface, Lord Hunger being reasonable won't mean he doesn't attract trouble because the Apocryphal curse. On a deeper level though, the fact he was crazy enough to take up the curse voluntarily means Letrizia is entirely correct.
Apocrypha would kill him before letting that happen.
He's got the right idea. I get the feeling that if Lambdadelta from Umineko shared her advice on Logic Error survival with him, he'd understand completely.
A well lampshaded infodump and a monument to the heavensmiting ambition so important to success in the Rihakuverse. Sunk cost fallacy is a thing though don't forget that.
Wait a minute you didn't burn your memory of Japanese cartoons for power?
Anime tropes are a multiversal constant then?
Wow that's unfortunate. Poor Letrizia.
I'll take your word for it Lord Hunger, I don't I'm qualified to comment on this *Social awkwardness intensifies*.
Diagetic game mechanics, nice. Also Accretion's principles being multiversally known means we need a backup power source incase we meet another Abduction user.
This is reminding me of those educational infodump eyecatches that show up in Anime. Like the Hunterpedia in Hunter x Hunter.
I guess you couldn't take that knowledge for granted with somebody from a pre-interstellar civilization.
Well, among other things, that justifies Mech's coming out on top on the cliche mech vs tank argument. We've got some Gurren Lagann in the Evangelion here.
Yeah we definitely need a second magic system.
Power armor that puts one in Rihaku protagonist territory. That merits a drawn out god damn, ideally with terrible wordart.
No Seed AI eh. I guess the question is if the Foremost called them Elder Implements, who is the Elder in question?
That is ominous information, and if I had to quantify it musically, I'd put it at Whirlpool of Fate from Fate Stay Night. Hopefully it's just some Elder Cursebearer's mitigation scheme but this isn't just ordinary paranoia fuel, this is advanced paranoia fuel.
I can see both sides here. Hopefully we get enough Arete in time for Conclusion to be available, it should make spilling go significantly better if we do that.
It is not worth the Arete cost to fish seriously when Conclusion is within reach. There's also all the really stupid Code Geass jokes that can be made here.
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Mental stats are more valuable, yeah. For example:
Note how Int/Cha has an additional downside Echo lacks despite both options offering you two points of stats?
LordOfMurder
Bhaal
- Location
- Australia
I think the +Gisena is more valuable than a +Zea both because we chose the double Zea option last vote and because Gisena is best girl and helps us more directly. King Fisher seems pretty good for 1 arete since we get another avenue of accretion gain, possibly a hunger proc and whatever the mystery box is. Also probably more Gisena screen time.
Substantially is garbage in comparison giving us an unavoidable mid tier debuff and some food which would be relevant if we'd taken feast earlier but seems mostly pointless now. +Zea obviously worse than +Gisena.
None is the boring option where we spend nothing but also gain nothing basically wasting our time.
Substantially is garbage in comparison giving us an unavoidable mid tier debuff and some food which would be relevant if we'd taken feast earlier but seems mostly pointless now. +Zea obviously worse than +Gisena.
None is the boring option where we spend nothing but also gain nothing basically wasting our time.