OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
You're diluting your characterization vote. You added half a vote Balance and a Half a vote to Forsaken Mask. A Simple Transaction I Original
A Simple Transaction I
- Thread starter Rihaku
- Start date
- Original
You're diluting your characterization vote. You added half a vote Balance and a Half a vote to Forsaken Mask. A Simple Transaction I Original
- Location
- USA
All Rihaku said was that Vengeance had significant power behind it, he didn't specify the Sword subvote. He was probably specifically referencing me and my godlike analyses and reactions. When I like a post it's worth 4.753 likes of the average participant.
Also I really doubt Sword is going to get much argument weight, it flagrantly flies in the face of logic, though maybe that's an argument for it all it's own.
I think King's still has a good chance to win over Sword, it's probably more likely that King's wins the vote than that the Sword protag survives beyond a few updates.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
My assumption is that Omakes for Vendetta+Sword and Vendetta+Scepter are combined for Omake Power purposes, then the Omake power is divided by which Omake writers had what subvote for Remittance deciding purposes. It leads to the potentially unforseen scenario where someone may support an option, may think their option is in the lead, only to lose from high Omake power disparity on the other side. In hindsight I may have stumbled into captain obvious territory for Rihaku quests but I'm not quite sure.
Rihaku
The Internet
If you haven't gone full power, it's not for Ulyssian's lack of trying!
You can get a (rough) estimate of omake power by looking at the index, calcing the wordcount for each contributor, and seeing what they're voting for. Quality matters as well but this gives you at least some idea.
Eh, the Moonite bloc were ever hampering us from that purity of purpose. I'd say Hitori was perhaps the most focused on the climb.
[X] Vendetta
-[X] Remittance: The Sword
[X] Seven Seals
In the end, I feel Seven Seals work best with Vendetta+Sword.
Now, both Praxis and SS [insert Nazi joke here] are considered taxing schools of magic - why would I consider to pick them together? First off, SS helps with the lack of immediate power of the Sword. Sure, not enough to grant assured survival, but none of the option assure that anyway. The possibility of deflecting attacks and healing oneself - an aspect in which Praxis is explicitly poor at - is nothing to scoff at in any case, more so when survivability in the short term is a real necessity. Creative uses of Seven Seals could lead to unexpected outcomes too.
"But CM" someone could counter "If that's your concern, you should go for Battle Magic!". That is true, BM is probably the best magical system as far as the short term is concerned. However, it comes with a hefty limit - it has a hard cap. This wouldn't be much of an issue with a Combat-class, which sacrifices potential for immediate burst of might. Not so for a Progression-class, whose entire shtick is the chance to manifest its trans-finite into reality given enough time. Battle Magic is completely anti-synergic to that.
There's a third point as well. Both Praxis and Seven Seals are magic which stem from within, from the self and soul of their user. The inner strength of a man which decided to devote its life to Vengeance, to toil forever in a selfish act of self-sacrifice for a single goal is not to be underestimated, nor can we ignore the possible synergy between systems with a close relationship with their source of power. One could very well end up affecting the other in many aspects.
That said, a King+Accretion is fine too. I love me some Lancelot-like hax skill and the chance to develop Noble Phantasms as our legend grows. Best of luck to our less daring Vendetta brothers!
-[X] Remittance: The Sword
[X] Seven Seals
In the end, I feel Seven Seals work best with Vendetta+Sword.
Now, both Praxis and SS [insert Nazi joke here] are considered taxing schools of magic - why would I consider to pick them together? First off, SS helps with the lack of immediate power of the Sword. Sure, not enough to grant assured survival, but none of the option assure that anyway. The possibility of deflecting attacks and healing oneself - an aspect in which Praxis is explicitly poor at - is nothing to scoff at in any case, more so when survivability in the short term is a real necessity. Creative uses of Seven Seals could lead to unexpected outcomes too.
"But CM" someone could counter "If that's your concern, you should go for Battle Magic!". That is true, BM is probably the best magical system as far as the short term is concerned. However, it comes with a hefty limit - it has a hard cap. This wouldn't be much of an issue with a Combat-class, which sacrifices potential for immediate burst of might. Not so for a Progression-class, whose entire shtick is the chance to manifest its trans-finite into reality given enough time. Battle Magic is completely anti-synergic to that.
There's a third point as well. Both Praxis and Seven Seals are magic which stem from within, from the self and soul of their user. The inner strength of a man which decided to devote its life to Vengeance, to toil forever in a selfish act of self-sacrifice for a single goal is not to be underestimated, nor can we ignore the possible synergy between systems with a close relationship with their source of power. One could very well end up affecting the other in many aspects.
That said, a King+Accretion is fine too. I love me some Lancelot-like hax skill and the chance to develop Noble Phantasms as our legend grows. Best of luck to our less daring Vendetta brothers!
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Salty
Shadow Cabal Assumptor Supreme
- Location
- Sun, Moon, Talia
- Pronouns
- I/Me
Oi vey, things are progressioning pretty quickly here! We're already three votes in to a quest that didn't exist two days ago? And two votes running simultaneously, with the signature Rihaku combinations? Yikes!
Ah well, live and let shitpost.
~~~
THE REAL CHAMPION
470 words
~~~
Dahl Grens had been working the checkout at the Spasibruh WalMarket for nigh-on 30 luns now, a long long period of time even for a man his age. He'd seen Supremer Leads come and go, kingdoms rise and fall, and nigh on sixteen wars begin and end since he'd first assumed this position. Admittedly, most of that had been safely transmitted to him through the highly illegal implant-tap attached to his hypothalamus and transmitting nearly-constantly from his handbrain, but he wasn't the type of man to quibble about whether data sourced from outside his own gray matter and its dense thicket of chemicals and electrical properties was inferior to the natural kind.
No, he'd grown old(er) working this job, a steady fixture to the point that some of the customers even managed to remember his name.
Without looking at his ID badge.
Yes sirree, he'd seen it all, from drugged out alties to overgrown sentient trash piles (but enough about management), to several outright orgiastic rituals conducted in the dark corners of his workplace, left to him to break up with nothing but a mop, his courage, and the knowledge that these kids would truly regret wasting their time when the treatment for their STDs was charged out of their parent's paychecks (choice footage of one of those stored away in a well-locked portion of memory still played sometimes, when he and the wife felt like getting frisky). Yep, he'd seen it all, done nearly all of it at one point himself, and if there was anything out there that could surprise him, well, that was what Netmunization was for.
So when this asshole managed to stroll up to his counter and somehow being something absolutely goddamn new, he was flabbergasted! Sure, the punk managed to look like your average homeless veteran of the social influencing wars, but there was something about him. Was it the fact that his skin wasn't as pale as could possibly be? Was it the way sparks flickered and flashed in his aura, gone so quick Dahl couldn't even be sure that he'd seen them? It was definitely the part where this, this, this customer had just asked him for a favor. Of all the infamy, all the insult, all the outrage! He was here to make sure that this chump paid his dues for his goods, not to actually serve him or anything! Fixing this interloper with the cold, implacable hatred that could freeze the heart of a star and the contempt that could make it wink out again, natural to any and all who had ever worked retail for a living, he cleared his throat and essayed, "Well, sahr, I would absolutely love to help you, but you see I appear to have left the gas stove on in my house this morning..."
~~~
I thought it'd be fun to have a look inside the mind of the kind of person who'd be stuck dealing with the Champion. And hey, if you've ever worked retail, perhaps you'll recognize a little of yourself in there!
Anyways, I hear there's some sort of voting going on? I might be newly come to the Omakenjutsu dojo, but that doesn't mean I've abandoned all questing behaviors!
[X] Vengeance
-[X] Remittance: The Sword
[X] Seven Seals
Because if I cannot have JUSTICE, then I will at least have a glimpse at the Praxis we've so long wondered at. The danger of death? Terrible sacrifice of self, perhaps risking the end of the quest unless we dig too deep and risk releasing raw omaketinium? Pah! We scoff at that! We are Rihaku questors, we know well that the end of a quest can come as simply as quarantine being lifted! Too long have we been teased with an option we have been told is too dangerous to grasp, too weak at first, too unoptimized for our build. Now, at last, we grasp fire! We grasp glory! We choose RED!!
Ah well, live and let shitpost.
~~~
THE REAL CHAMPION
470 words
~~~
Dahl Grens had been working the checkout at the Spasibruh WalMarket for nigh-on 30 luns now, a long long period of time even for a man his age. He'd seen Supremer Leads come and go, kingdoms rise and fall, and nigh on sixteen wars begin and end since he'd first assumed this position. Admittedly, most of that had been safely transmitted to him through the highly illegal implant-tap attached to his hypothalamus and transmitting nearly-constantly from his handbrain, but he wasn't the type of man to quibble about whether data sourced from outside his own gray matter and its dense thicket of chemicals and electrical properties was inferior to the natural kind.
No, he'd grown old(er) working this job, a steady fixture to the point that some of the customers even managed to remember his name.
Without looking at his ID badge.
Yes sirree, he'd seen it all, from drugged out alties to overgrown sentient trash piles (but enough about management), to several outright orgiastic rituals conducted in the dark corners of his workplace, left to him to break up with nothing but a mop, his courage, and the knowledge that these kids would truly regret wasting their time when the treatment for their STDs was charged out of their parent's paychecks (choice footage of one of those stored away in a well-locked portion of memory still played sometimes, when he and the wife felt like getting frisky). Yep, he'd seen it all, done nearly all of it at one point himself, and if there was anything out there that could surprise him, well, that was what Netmunization was for.
So when this asshole managed to stroll up to his counter and somehow being something absolutely goddamn new, he was flabbergasted! Sure, the punk managed to look like your average homeless veteran of the social influencing wars, but there was something about him. Was it the fact that his skin wasn't as pale as could possibly be? Was it the way sparks flickered and flashed in his aura, gone so quick Dahl couldn't even be sure that he'd seen them? It was definitely the part where this, this, this customer had just asked him for a favor. Of all the infamy, all the insult, all the outrage! He was here to make sure that this chump paid his dues for his goods, not to actually serve him or anything! Fixing this interloper with the cold, implacable hatred that could freeze the heart of a star and the contempt that could make it wink out again, natural to any and all who had ever worked retail for a living, he cleared his throat and essayed, "Well, sahr, I would absolutely love to help you, but you see I appear to have left the gas stove on in my house this morning..."
~~~
I thought it'd be fun to have a look inside the mind of the kind of person who'd be stuck dealing with the Champion. And hey, if you've ever worked retail, perhaps you'll recognize a little of yourself in there!
Anyways, I hear there's some sort of voting going on? I might be newly come to the Omakenjutsu dojo, but that doesn't mean I've abandoned all questing behaviors!
[X] Vengeance
-[X] Remittance: The Sword
[X] Seven Seals
Because if I cannot have JUSTICE, then I will at least have a glimpse at the Praxis we've so long wondered at. The danger of death? Terrible sacrifice of self, perhaps risking the end of the quest unless we dig too deep and risk releasing raw omaketinium? Pah! We scoff at that! We are Rihaku questors, we know well that the end of a quest can come as simply as quarantine being lifted! Too long have we been teased with an option we have been told is too dangerous to grasp, too weak at first, too unoptimized for our build. Now, at last, we grasp fire! We grasp glory! We choose RED!!
Is this the dreaded return of "[] Stab yourself in the heart with your soul-sword for power"? Man am I glad I've left those days behind me.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
Vote tallies are beyond my ability to keep track manually at the moment(Several Approval votes floating around that need proper diluting) but Omake Power is like this after Salty's recent Omake and including the Omakes from my earlier list:
Vendetta(Omake Power: 5155 Words, 3640+470 = 4110 for Sword and 1045 for Scepter)
Forsaken mask(Omake Power: 1029 Words)
Dread But Dreaming(Omake Power: 794 Words)
Balance or anti Vendetta+Sword depending on Author intent+Preferred outlook(Omake Power: 695 Words)
Seven Seals(Omake Power: 2177+794+470 = 2971 Words depening on Kid From Pallet's, Salty's and my intentions, I'm fine with my Omakes going towards Seven Seals)
Accretion(Omake Power: 1463+1045 = 2508 Words depending on BrainInAJar and Orm Embars intentions)
Battle Mastery(Omake Power: 695+1029 = 1724 Words depending on ImperatorV and Maragas's intentions)
Vendetta(Omake Power: 5155 Words, 3640+470 = 4110 for Sword and 1045 for Scepter)
Forsaken mask(Omake Power: 1029 Words)
Dread But Dreaming(Omake Power: 794 Words)
Balance or anti Vendetta+Sword depending on Author intent+Preferred outlook(Omake Power: 695 Words)
Seven Seals(Omake Power: 2177+794+470 = 2971 Words depening on Kid From Pallet's, Salty's and my intentions, I'm fine with my Omakes going towards Seven Seals)
Accretion(Omake Power: 1463+1045 = 2508 Words depending on BrainInAJar and Orm Embars intentions)
Battle Mastery(Omake Power: 695+1029 = 1724 Words depending on ImperatorV and Maragas's intentions)
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Rihaku
The Internet
That can't be accurate, both Orm and Unelemental are voting for Scepter. It would have a minimum of 6000 words.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
I did not see Unelemental's, my apologies, I will dig that up and factor it in.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
The Praxis vote will have us start at the level of an experienced simple soldier, we might have no to safely to even safely explore Praxis for a long time. The Tyrant's Doom means that unless we embrace the path of an hermit we are going to make enemies left and right. And, there is no guarantee that being an hermit will be viable in the world we are going. Just look at what happened to Seram, he dropped almost right into an plot relevant village and nearly at the start of an epic conflict. Add on the fact that if anyone learns about Decimator's affliction, we are fucking finished.
Tyrant's Doom and Affliction pretty much require us to be strong at the very start. What do you think is going to happen to an Cripple who acknowledges no rules, law or customs? We are going to arguably start in an worse position than Seram. The start is going to be very bitter in every way even if we survive. We will simply lack the power to play the hero.
Tyrant's Doom and Affliction pretty much require us to be strong at the very start. What do you think is going to happen to an Cripple who acknowledges no rules, law or customs? We are going to arguably start in an worse position than Seram. The start is going to be very bitter in every way even if we survive. We will simply lack the power to play the hero.
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Rihaku
The Internet
Hm... perhaps you're not counting all the omakes because of the vote partition? I'm counting every omake in the index because we haven't closed any votes since the thread started.
Talace
It must be raining somewhere else!
To be fair, I don't think a cap on one of our possible systems of progression is all that damaging, since the Praxis will literally scale as high as we're willing to work for-- and I have no doubt that down the line there will be other juicy red options to quarrel over. In fact, it seems to me that Battle Mastery's utility of not causing any collateral damage would be useful in crowded areas and cities-- (and assuming that a build with Doom of the Tyrant is passed, it is very likely that we will start a pissing match due to something dumb there). Aside from that, the utility gains of blocking 99.8% of damage (although whether this is redundant or synergistic with Praxis' prevention of harm remains to be seen) and other adjacent effects aren't to be scoffed at either.
OctarineShrike
Avatar of Mandos
That explains things, I was only counting Omakes since Vote Update 1 and Unelemental's Omakes were before that point.
The internet's an impediment to my sarcasm senses, but they're tingling something fierce.
Anyway, Vendetta + Sword is a legitimately concerning combination. Fiery rhetoric and memetic appeal are all well and good, god knows I use them enough, but we do actually have to lie in the bed we make. It would be nice not to fill the metaphorical mattress with thorns. Nameless' success in EFB may have skewed people's perceptions, since we spent the majority of the quest operating with plot armor because Summer wanted worthy opponents and the shield of the family name. Here, the opposite's true. Not only will we have to worry about the Decimator's Affliction being tracked back to us, the Tyrant's Doom will inevitably make enemies. Presumption without power to justify it, with an appearance that has obvious signs of weakness? The arrogance of Gilgamesh with Shirou's starting strength? We'd be asking for it. And that's without the Apocryphal Curse waiting in the wings and the undeniable tendency of SV to pick fights.
Then there's the question of motivation to consider; the Praxis is reliant on determination and self-sacrifice, but that may well be dry until refilled with hate given the hero's backstory. Without initial power to weather the storm, without the Scepter, Vendetta is suicide by another name. The stress it imposes on the playerbase - content creators in particular - is not fun, by any stretch of the imagination. It will not feel powerful to play until later in the game, if we last that long. Realistically speaking, considering the historical longevity of these quests, that payoff may not come even if we play optimally and roll well. And that's a big fucking if.
When the GM attempts to dissuade players from folly, a wise quester listens. We have been given warnings, clear ones. Yet still the Vendetta + Sword bandwagon rolls on. Maybe part of that's on me, for past exhortations in the name of Vengeance. The narrative it provides is enjoyable, the satisfaction of scales balanced and wrongs avenged. But without a living protagonist, we can't enjoy it or the lore inherent in wielding the Sword. If we want to live, we should take up the King's Scepter instead.
Genesys
(Discrete Mokona)
- Location
- California
Look, for all that I acknowledge that dying would be A Bad Thing and all, and that Vengeance+Sword is most risky, I think most of the other Vengeance+Sword voters acknowledge that too.
However, it's important to note that 1: we have an actual chance to not die when voting this option, so it's not "all vengeance+sword voters are dumb and don't realize that vengeance+sword is a Bad Idea." Comparison to actually a really dumb move specifically warned as having no possible benefits, no joke, is disingenuous. There's both a chance to success, though risky, and a payoff that is significant for a large fraction of the voters.
Discounting the salt of death, the important factors are 1: "how much enjoyment would this option bring on success" and 2: "how likely is this option to succeed" in deciding on vote preference, and well, if Vengeance+Sword is significantly more enjoyable upon success compared to Vengeance+King or Mask, even considering the possibility of death and thus no enjoyment, then it is the vote one should make. Not everyone's willing to risk it, perhaps because they consider death not only a no-enjoyment outcome but actually a significantly negative enjoyment outcome, or their motivators are different. But acknowledging that it is a gamble, there still are reasons to make it.
Shard
One and Many
- Location
- Malaysia
From a quest longevity perspective, I note that Rihaku starts/restarts a quest roughly once per year, so if this one dies, we'd be Rihaku-less for another year or so. Having a full course dinner be interrupted isn't pleasant, but it'd be even worse to only be halfway through the appetizer before being rudely interrupted by an emergency.
DkArthas
CAPITAL IS TO BLAME
- Location
- Earth
- Pronouns
- They
I don't think the Vendetta Praxis path is going to be particularly enjoyable in the start, if people actually want to survive, it will consist of staying the fuck away from any fight and plot relevant events and grinding ourself into something resembling relevance. All the while staying isolated because we can't afford to offend anyone. Does that sound fun?
If people want to explore Praxis, there is an option perfectly suited to it.
Edit: Hell, if I thought people were capable of doing the above, I might even vote for it. But I don't think SV will have the discipline to pull it off, we will almost certainly choose to play the white knight when given the bait.
If people want to explore Praxis, there is an option perfectly suited to it.
Edit: Hell, if I thought people were capable of doing the above, I might even vote for it. But I don't think SV will have the discipline to pull it off, we will almost certainly choose to play the white knight when given the bait.
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- Location
- Pindorama
Hey, Sword has infinitely higher chance of working out, since it's not zero.
In Seram's position, as an example, Tyrant's Doom would have only come up when he decided to join the front. And that's if, say, we don't get a companion to do stuff for us, like with Champion's Brand. It isn't something impossible to work around.
Rihaku already stated the Hero would be well suited for the Praxis. As for the concerns of risk, no choice of Curses would make us safe; They're Curses, after all. Sword is just riskier than most. Tyranny doesn't even force arrogance per-se, we'd be quite capable of running away from stronger foes, for example. It just makes us unable to acknowledge for being authority, we can still make reasonable decisions otherwise. Hell, if we get a minion from a Lesser Remittance, we can even mitigate it that way; it'd be just like Champion, except finding immune people isn't a total crapshoot.
And, as it been said, the potential of doing something like this outweighs the risks. As they say, it was only a bad gamble if it fails.
I have so little interest for Vendetta plus Scepter that Mask would actually be my second choice. It's just not the same without the Praxis.
What, is Rihaku forbidden from doing time-skips? If nothing interesting is going on, it's fine to elide it.