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Storm Trooper Mafia

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Byzantine said:
Preparing this before D2 starts, as I'll be administering a test when it does and won't be able to spare the attention to detail needed.

What I find odd is that Rosen started the day with no votes at all. I was getting ready to be lynched and then people just... started piling on votes in quick succession. That isn't abnormal, I just can't really justify the choice of target - it's known Rosen acts like this as town, even if it gives everyone and their grandmother scum reads.

...Amusingly this solidifies my town reading of Nictis. He's either completely off his game or is town, based on his lack of any real pushing while he was around. (Amusing scum!Nictis gets away with it when town!Rosen has been lynched twice in a row over it.) ...The amusing thing is more people than could possibly be scum in an ordinary set up made strange decisions, so this is going to take some figuring.
  • I do not understanding the reasoning behind Nani switching off Nictis in 747. The argument seems pretty odd to me - get off of them because their expected partner is on them now? Why? Does he expect it to be some kind of trap?
  • Oshha justified his choice with all the lynches either being noobs or town reads, so went with his weakest such. Understandable. Casts doubt on Nictis is Oshha ever turns up scum, otherwise NAI.
  • QT didn't say much, but I have to admit I agree with him that when Rosen got flustered he responded... poorly, in 738. On the other hand does that really justify a lynch vote?
  • Tykan's vote in 752 wasn't justified at all, beyond forcing a three way tie. I do not like the look of that.
  • Best drove-by voted in 754 with no justification at all. That's getting questioned.
  • In 756 Cyri jumped to Meso, as he said he wanted to do if it became viable earlier.
  • IH was doing a lot of low to no information vote changing near the end 762, 775, 777. This is after they said they needed to review Rosen and then... didn't post anything about it. That needs to be questioned.
  • Comi stayed out of it until the very last moment, 783. Literally. Informational question to ask: What are multivoter shenanigans and why did he worry about them?
  • Meso changed purely to save himself, so NAI.

    Test actually isn't for a couple hours, since day started a bit early. But I need to finish the prep work.
I do think scum scared who died, but not because someone involved was scum, but rather because they were trying to take out the more dangerous player (Rosen or Nictis) first. So I'd expect 2 scum on Rosen and 1 on Meso for future deniability. That's not particularly useful information, though.
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While I question myself how useful an explanation two days later really is...
Before Nani voted Meso the two main lynches were Nictis and -Rosen. Wasn't really happy with both of them. Nictis was/is one of my two better town reads from Day 1 so I definitely wouldn't lynch him.
Didn't really want to vote -Rosen neither. Part of it was that he's lynched already Day 1 last game, mostly acted as usual with the questionnaire and all and the relation with BB argument didn't really stick with me. So I was more than glad to jump on the next waggon that seemed to have a chance to gain momentum.
 
Hello everyone, just popping in to say that I am making a timeline of events in Day 1 and am about halfway done. Mostly becuase the Hobo timeline bugged me.

Also wanted to say that I am in an unnaturally bad mood, I'll try to keep it out of the game but as Happerry and Pawn know it's probably going to bleed through anyways. Sorry in advance.

Should be back to my laptop in about eight hours, will try to keep up with Day 2 stuff on my phone in the meanwhile.
 
Oshha said:
Some roles let you get additional votes so rather than having a single vote that counts once, you could have one that counts twice or more. You worry about them because it could turn a close lynch into a tie (bad for town) or a get a runner up lynched rather than the conventional winner.
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Thank you. That makes sense, even after reading DB Mafia I didn't even think about that as a possibility. I guess because it never actually did anything in that game.
 
Seems like scum are implementing a similar plan to what my team did last game - targeting vets, but not the obvious ones like Nictis.
 
1KBestK said:
Seems like scum are implementing a similar plan to what my team did last game - targeting vets, but not the obvious ones like Nictis.
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It's entirely possible that the reason they didn't target Nictis is that he's scum (from an outside view, yeah, the same applies to me), which you should always be suspicious of if vets seem to be surviving unnaturally long, but in this case I'm inclined to think you're right.
 
1KBestK said:
Well, the way things were shaking out, it was Meso or Rosen. People seemed to be townreading Meso more than Rosen. I voted for them because of the same post that QT seemingly voted them for. Frankly, regardless of whether they do similar things in other games, they were focusing on me for something that was literally nothing, and ignoring all the other people that were doing the same exact thing I did. I didn't like the inconsistency or their play. Just because they've done it before doesn't make it not scummy or good for town.

And honestly, I don't want to have someone jump down my throat for trying to be honest and give people insight into where I'm at. Them repeatedly jabbing at me for 'not communicating' made me less inclined to leave them alive over Meso. When someone's seriously negatively impacting my mental state while I'm playing this game, I reserve the right to ignore them. I play better when I'm not stressed the hell out. Call me selfish, call me callous or petty, but I just don't want to put up with that needless aggression, especially when I'm trying to be open.
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I'm going to back this up completely. Rosen may have been town and acting like they do as town, but their behaviour was not town and the only reason that it would be considered town rather than scum is because they have done in the past at town. A townie acting like scum is a perfectly valid reason for lynching them even if it fits with their past town behaviour. Rosen's anti-town behaviour shouldn't given a pass because that is normal town behaviour. It is still anti-town behaviour that doesn't benefit town and therefore is a valid reason for lynching Rosen when we don't have better prospects.
 
Byzantine said:
  • I do not understanding the reasoning behind Nani switching off Nictis in 747. The argument seems pretty odd to me - get off of them because their expected partner is on them now? Why? Does he expect it to be some kind of trap?
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The lion's share of my suspicion on either was due to association with the other. It was looking like Rosen was pushing Nictis fully under the vote by shifting his vote to make the majority on Nictis with like half an hour left, which uh. Is certainly a hit to theories they're on the same team. I mean, it's Nictis and Rosen, who certainly are good enough to pull off "Let's do something scum partners would never do to get the vote off us both" but the timing on it... Like 90+% chance I was just fucking wrong, and even if it is a bluff, I ain't calling it.
  • QT didn't say much, but I have to admit I agree with him that when Rosen got flustered he responded... poorly, in 738. On the other hand does that really justify a lynch vote?
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He also responded poorly last game. And this happened there too. I really do expect better from Town QT.
  • Tykan's vote in 752 wasn't justified at all, beyond forcing a three way tie. I do not like the look of that.
  • Best drove-by voted in 754 with no justification at all. That's getting questioned.
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Thank you for this.

  • Comi stayed out of it until the very last moment, 783. Literally. Informational question to ask: What are multivoter shenanigans and why did he worry about them?
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Multivoters are those that can cast typically one, possibly two, votes in PM, hidden to us. If Rosen was already ahead at that point, another vote would just prevent a tie in the case of a multivoter voting for the one below him. That's reasonable from a town perspective and doesn't help a scumteam going after Rosen with that goal.
However, as it could also be a means of attempting to garner towncred from scum, it's not like it's something they wouldn't do. Also, if Rosen wasn't already winning that vote, the stated reason wouldn't really match up. On the other hand, if Rosen wasn't already winning that vote, he just avoided a tie, so I don't think there'd be a reason to lie about his motivation there.

Anyways, wow, people are already justifying their vote-switching on Rosen before pressure's on them, huh? Well, cause and effect may be reduced, but let's just-

[X] Lynch 1KBestK

You know, I remember that "This person arguing against me's getting me real mad so fuck'em" from last game, when you were scum. It's not really a reason that indicates you as town.
 
Byzantine said:
I don't think talking about Rosen is going to be productive.
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While I get where you are coming from with this post, I disagree as they are a townie who died by lynch. We need to figure out why they died and see if anyone responsible had ulterior motives (aka being scum who wanted to kill town) when it came to their lynch. That means talking about Rosen and who lynched them and why they would want to lynch them. Unfortunately Rosen's particular style of play makes it more complicated, but we can't just ignore the death of a town player.

My impressions right now is that 1k, Nictis, Meso and Comi had town reasons for lynching Rosen, but at the same time, they could be scum taking advantage of the situation to look like town. More detail when I had the chance to think about it.
 
Okay, my current thoughts.

1k - They had valid reasoning to lynch Rosen (Rosen's behaviour being bad for town and more personally, being bad for them playing). But I don't consider this to be scum or town behaviour as they could do it from either prospective.
Nictis - They could have gone for Meso or Byz to protect themselves, but instead chose to go after Rosen instead when they are also a contender for the lynch. I would call this town, but it could be scum Nictis being sporting to the newbies or making a play to kill a townie whilst looking town themselves by not taking the easy way to get another player killed instead of themselves. It should also be considered that they rightfully judged that they could turn Rosen into a contending lynch prospective by counting on my vote to lynch Rosen. However BB's previous play has me leaning town so while Nictis has me neutral, BB pushes it into lean town.
Byz - I originally considered their detailed and thought-out post near the start of the day as a newbie to be a sign of town, but then I remembered that scum have private chat and could have discussed things over the night. Plus as scum Byz could account for Cyri being targeted.
Meso - Voted for Rosen to save themselves from the lynch. Neither town or scum indicative.
Comi - Voted for to avoid a multivoter shenanigans. Valid as town or it could be scum trying to look town or protecting a scummate Meso from potential multivoter shenanigans. If either Meso or Comi flip scum, look at the other over this.
 
That's all I got for now. Going to be busy-ish for the rest of the evening (probably). I will have more time to look at things tomorrow (hopefully).
 
Oshha said:
While I get where you are coming from with this post, I disagree as they are a townie who died by lynch. We need to figure out why they died and see if anyone responsible had ulterior motives (aka being scum who wanted to kill town) when it came to their lynch. That means talking about Rosen and who lynched them and why they would want to lynch them. Unfortunately Rosen's particular style of play makes it more complicated, but we can't just ignore the death of a town player.
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Ah, I see. It just feels a bit too much shitting on a guy who can't defend himself. It makes sense as a method of trying to ferret out bad reasoning, though. Particularly in the people that failed to properly explain themselves last time.
 
Nanimani said:
Anyways, wow, people are already justifying their vote-switching on Rosen before pressure's on them, huh? Well, cause and effect may be reduced, but let's just-

[X] Lynch 1KBestK

You know, I remember that "This person arguing against me's getting me real mad so fuck'em" from last game, when you were scum. It's not really a reason that indicates you as town.
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How does that indicate I'm scum? Me getting annoyed at someone is not an uncommon occurrence. And it's not pre-emptive. People on the discord decided to talk about it while it was night. I couldn't talk there, so I'm doing it here.
 
And the key difference is I never actually lynched Evenstar last game, so the comparison doesn't even track.
 
Also, I never actually gave my reasoning for the lynch because I was pretty fed up d1.
 
1KBestK said:
How does that indicate I'm scum? Me getting annoyed at someone is not an uncommon occurrence. And it's not pre-emptive. People on the discord decided to talk about it while it was night. I couldn't talk there, so I'm doing it here.
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It doesn't indicate you're scum, but it also doesn't indicate you're town.
So you know. The whole no reasoning at time of vote vote near the end on a townie is good enough for me.
 
Like, if you're admitting that was NAI, why the hell did you list that as your reason instead of a more valid one? And why are you throwing shade for me explaining my reasons if you're voting me for not explainign my reasons?
 
Honestly, even in retrospect I don't feel like my lynch of -Rosen was misplaced. The only other real contender for the lynch is mesonoxian, and I'm pretty confident they're not only town but a more valuable vanilla town than Rosen to boot, since while they don't have the same experience they aren't a glaring neon sign covering scum.
1KBestK said:
Like, if you're admitting that was NAI, why the hell did you list that as your reason instead of a more valid one? And why are you throwing shade for me explaining my reasons if you're voting me for not explainign my reasons?
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Pretty sure they were saying they were suspicious of you, and your argument wasn't enough to persuade them otherwise, rather than them lynching you due to your argument.
 
Oh, and I've had time to think, and I've decided that while still a bit suspicious of Meso I probably read way deeper into what they were writing than they were thinking when they wrote it. Aka I mistook unintentional underlying implications for the point of the post. Then scumread that.
 
Please stop me if I'm getting lost too much in wine country...

I have a new list of people I want to go through again tomorrow* based on -Rosen and Cyri.

Byzantine: Before -Rosen died, he was targeting Byz and since Rosen is confirmed town now, that's a solid reason to check him again.

That was the easy part. Now it's getting winey with the question "Was Cyri night killed randomly as a rather strong vet (other candidates implied are QT, Comi and Nictis)** or was there a specific reason for him?"
The second part leads me to Nictis and 1k.

He wrote his suspicion about Nictis here and voted near day's end for him.
Cyricubed said:
BB/Nictis: Seemed floaty and a bit of everywhere, is now focused on rosen despite bb seeming linked. In addition BB's angles reminded me of DBZ mafia but I don't know how to put it into words.
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The 1k angle comes from several posts that can be read as distancing/buddying and comes down to: "Oh shit, Cyri has seen my last two games from up close and might notice if I'm scum the fastest. Better kill him early."

Ooooooooor, those thoughts were intended and both are innocent. Meaning Cyri was targeted in part to throw shade at the two. Welcome to wine country, it's lovely around this season.
Still I hope to reread at least 1-2 tomorrow, don't expect me to tackle this today anymore.


*no guarantees, I'm a chronic procrastinator
** Can't say much about LDJ and 1k
 
Who voted to lynch Rosen and their stated reasoning why:

Nictis - Didn't like Rosen's playstyle due to it being scummy in nature.
Me - Didn't like Rosen's playstyle due to it being scummy in nature.
1K - Didn't like Rosen's playstyle due to it being scummy in nature.
QT - Didn't like Rosen's playstyle due to it being scummy in nature.
Comi - Avoid a tie as those are bad for town.
Hobo - Avoiding a tie as those are bad for town.

Two thirds due to their scummy actions and two to avoid a tie near the end of the day.
This here is why I think Rosen's behaviour is definitely anti-town. By playing scummy as town, they let other people to vote for them over their scummy behaviour and because they are town who are getting valid reasons to lynch them, it lets scum get away with a town excuse to lynch a townie. At least Rosen isn't able to help scum hide via providing false positives anymore.

I kind of want to lynch Meso at this point, but that would only be helpful if they are scum as that would tell us if scum would have a reason to back a Rosen lynch over a Meso lynch, indicating at that at least some people who voted for Rosen did so to get a town lynch over a scum lynch. If Meso does flip scum, I would want to look at Nictis and Comi, maybe Hobo.

That said, if Meso is town and it was a choice between lynching two townies, I could see scum backing a Meso lynch over a Rosen lynch so Rosen could keep acting scummy as town.

Uh, it is late and I'm tired. I'll try and come up with some ideas or leads tomorrow if no one else gets some over night.
 
Tykan said:
"Was Cyri night killed randomly as a rather strong vet (other candidates implied are QT, Comi and Nictis)** or was there a specific reason for him?"
** Can't say much about LDJ and 1k
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I tend to get lumped in there because I'm one of Ye Olde Guard, having been involved in the SV maf community since its very first game. Nani is really the only person who has been around as long as I have, though they're significantly more consistent in actually participating in games these days.
IDK if that really makes me a strong player, I think I'm kinda meh at best, but then again I've had people I consider better than me at the game say much the same about themselves, so...?
 
Ah right. To try to figure out more about the set up: Was anyone roleblocked last night? (Note to the other newbs: Being roleblocked does not imply you actually have a role which can be blocked. Traditionally anyone roleblocked gets the associated PM regardless of if they had a night action to take.)

Given we appear to have at least two VT this is probably a low power set up. Scum having a RB is consistent with that, though, but can unbalance easily if not found.
 
Nanimani said:
The lion's share of my suspicion on either was due to association with the other. It was looking like Rosen was pushing Nictis fully under the vote by shifting his vote to make the majority on Nictis with like half an hour left, which uh. Is certainly a hit to theories they're on the same team. I mean, it's Nictis and Rosen, who certainly are good enough to pull off "Let's do something scum partners would never do to get the vote off us both" but the timing on it... Like 90+% chance I was just fucking wrong, and even if it is a bluff, I ain't calling it.
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Can you explain why you thought they were on the same team to begin with? I confess I saw no signs of such an association.
 
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