The Practice War [Complete]

Snowfire said:

I feel I have to reply to this, though I'm trying not to do too much of that so that this decision is a free one. Vega was able to open that space because she rolled 195 from a d100. The assertion that this is something she can do reliably feels a little flawed if you take that into account.

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OK, that's a fair point.

At the same time, I'm not saying Vega alone has to be the one providing cover...

Let me ask you a question.

My real hope for the tactics here is something like "create a barrier against the anti-Practice weapon that holds off its effect long enough for someone to Speak and knock out some of the ships firing that weapon against us." I don't especially care if that's Amanda holding the barrier (which she seems to be doing rather successfully) while Vega or others among the 223 (if any could) Speak the words, or vice versa.

Which plan most accurately reflects that hope, in your opinion? I don't want to make an overcomplicated write-in, but I do want a clearer picture of what's involved here.

Simon_Jester said:

OK, that's a fair point.

At the same time, I'm not saying Vega alone has to be the one providing cover...

Let me ask you a question.

My real hope for the tactics here is something like "create a barrier against the anti-Practice weapon that holds off its effect long enough for someone to Speak and knock out some of the ships firing that weapon against us." I don't especially care if that's Amanda holding the barrier (which she seems to be doing rather successfully) while Vega or others among the 223 (if any could) Speak the words, or vice versa.

Which plan most accurately reflects that hope, in your opinion? I don't want to make an overcomplicated write-in, but I do want a clearer picture of what's involved here.

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Ah, ok. Assuming rolls are kind, Amanda should be able to Speak without a truly enormous amount of difficulty. The problem is where the Words move beyond the barrier around the 223. Specifically if the energy structure bound to them gets disrupted by the anti-Practice weaponry, and changes the way in which the Word was Spoken.

Your chosen vote is closest to what you described, yes. But the mechanics of the action aren't quite that simple.

Baughn said:

@Snowfire, can I assume this choice would attempt to extend our shielding to the other Potentials? If so... well, we were already losing slowly. This option abdicates responsibility for changing that; it's buying time for Lina to do so instead.

I don't like it. I don't think she has many cards left to play.

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Note that it would leave Lina in command of two Fleets fighting a force with less than half their combined strength whilst the entire battlegroup around you was forced to focus on the 223. If Lina can break the fleet she's engaged with, which with Second Fleet to help she could do, then the shape of your local battlespace undergoes some major changes.

[X] A Path of Words: This power that seeks to choke away the link between you and your Unison Platform cannot be laid against the other Potentials among humanity's fleets. Do as a healer sometimes must. Become a soldier, and end those craft.

Edit: Changed vote.

Snowfire said:

I feel I have to reply to this, though I'm trying not to do too much of that so that this decision is a free one. Vega was able to open that space because she rolled 195 from a d100. The assertion that this is something she can do reliably feels a little flawed if you take that into account.

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I must say that the roll of 195 on a d100 is why I am voting for Speaking. It was labeled as "Absolute Success". This, and the following narration, made me think that there is currently a window of opportunity to do something while this effect holds, effectively giving us the best chance for the foreseeable future to Speak.

If I am mistaken in this, I would be thankful for a clarification.

These weapons were built to fight something which almost inevitably was a lot more advanced in practice than Earth, and were brought along as a precaution against its return.

[X] Withstand: This is not the moment that hope dies. None of you will allow it. The Shiplords have flung their most lethal weapons yet against you, and you yet live. Perhaps it cannot last forever, but you can endure this. The other Potentials among First and Second Fleet? You think not.

We're one part of a greater whole. An important part? Perhaps, but not the whole of humanity. Show the Shiplords that we have not abandoned more traditional means.

Lailoken said:

These weapons were built to fight something which almost inevitably was a lot more advanced in practice than Earth, and were brought along as a precaution against its return.

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That's not necessarily true.

They might have been built to fight a race that was technologically closer to competitive with the Shiplords, and equipped with weak Practice- a race that was a threat, but not an overwhelming one.

They might have been built to fight a civil war among the Shiplords, against a Practice-using faction that was crushed before it had a chance to fully develop its potential talents.

They might have been built to fight a race that had something similar to Practice but much less efficient or more costly in sacrifice, thus explaining why they aren't quite "tuned" to fight us.

They might have been designed as defensive anti-eldritch-horror defense zone generators that are being crudely repurposed as projector-type weapons to fight us.

...

The nature and power of humanity's Practice is inextricably tied up in the precise origins of that Practice, which we still only partially understand. It clearly involved the living-weapon dragons, a race of spacefaring bio-monsters created to defend humanity using the Evangelion-level bullshit of the Second Secret, knowingly sacrificing themselves. The circumstances under which that past enemy of the Shiplords, the one this weapon was designed to fight, obtained its power may be entirely different.

We cannot just assume that "Practice" is simply another tech tree that the Shiplords have an established counter to.

Zaealix said:

[] Withstand: This is not the moment that hope dies. None of you will allow it. The Shiplords have flung their most lethal weapons yet against you, and you yet live. Perhaps it cannot last forever, but you can endure this. The other Potentials among First and Second Fleet? You think not.

We're one part of a greater whole. An important part? Perhaps, but not the whole of humanity. Show the Shiplords that we have not abandoned more traditional means.

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Notice that this action basically means "hunker down and let the Shiplords pound on you with the anti-Practice weapon while the rest of the fleet fights elsewhere," if I understand @Snowfire correctly. Not sure that's a good idea, because it lets this one squadron of Shiplord battleships lock down the 223 while the rest of the fight goes, uh... not great for the rest of our fleets. Under present conditions, we're effectively out of the fight, and given that we're among the heaviest heavy hitters that's not good.

Also, @Snowfire , while I have your attention, does Lantern's Charge leverage the conceptual web-of-humanity artifact Amanda's prepared for this battle? Or is it focused more heavily on Vega and her abilities? Or both? Could you expand on what's involved there a bit?

My take on "why did they bring this weapon" is that either some bit of intel regarding the vanquishing of the Tribute Fleet fit a pattern of "this race has weaponized the soul" or "this race has submitted to evil soul-things" or whatever, and thus they prepped appropriate weaponry... or simply the nature of the victory (first Tribute fleet, complete devastation, etc) was enough to trigger a "just in case" contingency".


I don't think the Shiplords deliberately avoided the use of Practice - I think that in the millions of years they've been doing this, they have, on occasion, encountered 'soul-enhanced warfare', and thus figured out some mechanism to disrupt it violently.

And then left it at that. After all, that's all they need - an effective weapon against it. Perhaps they cannibalized it from whatever enemy they were fighting that used it, or perhaps they stumbled across some technique (perhaps similar to their "fuel their ship-stuff with souls" technology) that did the trick.

They have their own racial understanding of all six Secrets, and have found ways to meld them together. Do they need to be able to use the soul directly, when they can just use their mastery of these "loopholes in reality"? They don't seem to be a particularly curious culture - they're crusaders, inflicting suffering for their cause and faith and anything outside that isn't necessary.

We know the Shiplords know about the Uninvolved. How could they not, with fingers in as many pies as they have?

Thanks to Insight, we know that multiple races have chosen to become Uninvolved for the explicit purpose of fighting the Shiplords. We also know that none have ever actually carried out that purpose.

Are we, perhaps, looking at one of the reasons why that's the case?

[x] A Path of Words

I think right now, high risk/high reward is exactly what we need. We've never faced anything this bad in the entirety of the quest. We're in trouble. We need a decisive blow. We have to turn the tables; we can't afford to do this by half.

Well, the flip side is that Lantern's Charge could potentially overpower the weapon. If I'm right about how some of this works, Amanda hasn't tapped into the full power available to us. It's quite possible that we could trivialize this weapon by sheer force, and avoid the risk of its interference disrupting our Speaking, through Lantern's Charge... if it works. Hoping for an answer from @Snowfire about that.

[X] Lantern's Charge: If it can be hard to see the sun when darkness surrounds you, then be the sun itself. Make of yourself a lighthouse, and use the strength of the web shone through it to drown the night.

Well, now would be a good time to quote Green Lantern?

Hm. Is this effect suppressing active Practice, or also the effects generated by Practiced implements? If only the first, I'm kinda tempted to go for a vote which tells Kalilah "All this power is yours," and see how the dreadnaughts hold up to a massively-buffed Doomlance.

Probably a bad idea, but it would be fun.

Lailoken said:

These weapons were built to fight something which almost inevitably was a lot more advanced in practice than Earth, and were brought along as a precaution against its return.

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It's not a perfect fit for humanity's Practice - could be that Practice is flavored by the souls using it, or it means it's to counter something like Practice that is not Practice.

[X] Lantern's Charge: If it can be hard to see the sun when darkness surrounds you, then be the sun itself. Make of yourself a lighthouse, and use the strength of the web shone through it to drown the night.
//
I hope we don't go supernova here - burning everything away, including ourselves.

tenchifew said:

I must say that the roll of 195 on a d100 is why I am voting for Speaking. It was labeled as "Absolute Success". This, and the following narration, made me think that there is currently a window of opportunity to do something while this effect holds, effectively giving us the best chance for the foreseeable future to Speak.

If I am mistaken in this, I would be thankful for a clarification.

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The Absolute Success she rolled was more relevant elsewhere, with most of her attention being directed towards the Web, now. Still, the main risk of Words isn't an attack getting through to you. It's the Words chosen coming out wrong.

Simon_Jester said:

Notice that this action basically means "hunker down and let the Shiplords pound on you with the anti-Practice weapon while the rest of the fleet fights elsewhere," if I understand @Snowfire correctly. Not sure that's a good idea, because it lets this one squadron of Shiplord battleships lock down the 223 while the rest of the fight goes, uh... not great for the rest of our fleets. Under present conditions, we're effectively out of the fight, and given that we're among the heaviest heavy hitters that's not good.

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Withstand is designed to keep the attention of that squadron's relevant attendants, and is quite likely to succeed in doing so. Which leads to Lina suddenly having a numerical advantage in a tactical scale engagement.

Simon_Jester said:

Also, @Snowfire , while I have your attention, does Lantern's Charge leverage the conceptual web-of-humanity artifact Amanda's prepared for this battle? Or is it focused more heavily on Vega and her abilities? Or both? Could you expand on what's involved there a bit?

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Simon_Jester said:

Well, the flip side is that Lantern's Charge could potentially overpower the weapon. If I'm right about how some of this works, Amanda hasn't tapped into the full power available to us. It's quite possible that we could trivialize this weapon by sheer force, and avoid the risk of its interference disrupting our Speaking, through Lantern's Charge... if it works. Hoping for an answer from @Snowfire about that.

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Mender's Soul isn't a Web of Humanity Artefact, it's something else. But Lantern's Charge would involve drawing upon that Artefact and the Web heavily. The voting choice is essentially turning Amanda (temporarily) into a vessel of metaphysical lenses and cut crystal that will gather the power she has access to into Light. And then she'll just send it out.

Lightwhispers said:

If only the first, I'm kinda tempted to go for a vote which tells Kalilah "All this power is yours," and see how the dreadnaughts hold up to a massively-buffed Doomlance.

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Won't work. Transferring energy between Unisonbound runs into the issue of Focus incompatability.

[X] Lantern's Charge: If it can be hard to see the sun when darkness surrounds you, then be the sun itself. Make of yourself a lighthouse, and use the strength of the web shone through it to drown the night.

[X] Withstand: This is not the moment that hope dies. None of you will allow it. The Shiplords have flung their most lethal weapons yet against you, and you yet live. Perhaps it cannot last forever, but you can endure this. The other Potentials among First and Second Fleet? You think not.

[X] Withstand: This is not the moment that hope dies. None of you will allow it. The Shiplords have flung their most lethal weapons yet against you, and you yet live. Perhaps it cannot last forever, but you can endure this. The other Potentials among First and Second Fleet? You think not.

Really no good choices, but I think the situation isn't quite so desperate yet as to risk the backlash from flawed Speaking or to hope we can drown out the Shiplords under Humanity's Light. Especially as its been confirmed that Lina has good odds of winning her fight soon and can then come to our aid.

... Hey @Snowfire ? Is the First Fleet still going to retreat, or is it now just going to swap roles with the Second Fleet or something once/if it wins their current fight?

Pyro Hawk said:

... Hey @Snowfire ? Is the First Fleet still going to retreat, or is it now just going to swap roles with the Second Fleet or something once/if it wins their current fight?

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It's withdrawing to a safe distance to repair, and Second Fleet is likely going to move up to screen for it as it does so. Amanda thinks that Lina is going to leverage her numerical advantage in a short-lived long range duel to allow repairs before closing again and putting all that tonnage to work.

Behold! For I have ventured through the glorious majesty that is Snowfires epic fantasy sci-fi quest and I have found that it is on fire! Maybe.

In any case, casting my vote here:
[X] Lantern's Charge: If it can be hard to see the sun when darkness surrounds you, then be the sun itself. Make of yourself a lighthouse, and use the strength of the web shone through it to drown the night.

Likely more difficult due to raw power, but maybe less likely to fail due to raw power, is my thinking on the matter.

Especially given the chance to turn Shiplords into Shipgirls set the solar system on fire with an interrupted word.

But seriously, this is some good stuff.

[x] A Path of Words

Damn this vote is being close. Definitely going to keep it open for the few days. Been really great to see the discussion about it bouncing as it has been, even if I've not been responding to much of it for reasons I've expressed previously.

[X] Lantern's Charge: If it can be hard to see the sun when darkness surrounds you, then be the sun itself. Make of yourself a lighthouse, and use the strength of the web shone through it to drown the night.

[X] Lantern's Charge: If it can be hard to see the sun when darkness surrounds you, then be the sun itself. Make of yourself a lighthouse, and use the strength of the web shone through it to drown the night.

Snowfire said:

You considered your options

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-The modifier for the anti-Practice dreads is called Void Weaponry.
Consider that they ask us not to linger in the void between the stars, and that we know it's not empty, that's suggestive. If I had to WAG, I suspect this is what allows them to linger in the void

And why their reserves in the void had these weapons along.

-That the SLs understand a fair bit about the soul is a given.
Their Soylent Green bioslurry wouldn't work without it. Their ability to subvert both people's bodies and souls to turn them into unwitting agent require it. But they don't actually seem to work with it intimately like we do.

And there's currently no evidence of their having encountered anything quite like a Unison Platform before.

-

You'd never been religious; no one really had been after the Sorrows. But you thanked whatever god or gods might be in that moment that you'd had so much in reserve when those terrible weapons fired. There was no burst of light or fury, simply a rush of overpowering energy, and then pain. Something in the way that energy struck you wasn't quite right, as if tuned to a subtly different wavelength. But it was close enough.

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This is not tuned for us.
We don't want to give them time to refine their targeting.

VOTE
[X] A Path of Words: This power that seeks to choke away the link between you and your Unison Platform cannot be laid against the other Potentials among humanity's fleets. Do as a healer sometimes must. Become a soldier, and end those craft.

We've spent ships and lives in order to get the Shiplords to commit fully.
Now they have; a significant section of the Shiplords have dived inside the SEZ, moving towards our planets, and the rest are concentrated around our fleets. Make it count.

Besides, the longer they have these things on the field, the more time they have to maybe figure out a chink to exploit in the harmonic web we have running. Or even data to transmit back home via courier. Lets not give them that.