Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
- Location
- Central Europe
While I agree from a narrative standpoint I felt that this discussion was about mechanics. Looking over those for past battles it becomes quite obvious how important the Military bonus of the commanding officer is. Meanwhile commander Logistics only seem to play a significant role in sieges, but even there might be a chance to outsource.
Narratively, I'm all for grabbing Military related skills such as Seafaring, Logistics and Engineering. However, from a mechanical standpoint I remain opposed to spending all our XP on Logistics. At least not until we know, if siege warfare will be a big part in our predicted role for this campaign.
That's fair. My impression is, boosting Intelligence is at this point our greatest long-term goal. Since there's a 2-3 turn delay between sending a letter and hearing back from Cicero, we should try to reduce this delay as much as possible -- start immediately, respond promptly, all that.
On the other hand, you're absolutely right that hearing from Scaevola would be really useful for our dealings in this province. On the other hand, there's the same 2-3 turn delay before we hear back, so it wouldn't be timely either way.
More importantly, @Telamon, we just set aside time to meet Scaevola during our few days inside the city limits of Rome. Did we know at that time where we would be stationed? Even if we didn't know, did we (or Scaevola) suspect that our legion would be called up to help the war in Asia Minor? Either way, wouldn't it make sense for Scaevola to give us advice on his own dealings in the province, or suggestions on how to proceed? Even if Scaevola didn't know about our mission until after we departed, wouldn't he send a letter of introduction to connect us to someone local who can help us out? That's well within the standards of normal behavior for a patron to help out a protegee, I'd think.
- Location
- Texas
Bloody treachery.
Scaevola may or may not have contacts in Asia which may help your future endeavors if you try and namedrop him. Atellus does not know for certain. Scaevola might have tried to help you in a more concrete manner, but he was rather busy trying not to be murdered in the streets by the Marian mobs.
The Sandman
So Zetta Slowpoke
- Location
- Wherever I am, which isn't where I'm not
Out of curiosity, is there any degree of cultural similarity at all between the barbarian peoples of the Anatolian interior and the Gauls, aside from the one weird region populated by actual Gauls that migrated there?
Because if we can portray ourselves as rough enough and tough enough for the Isaurians or Cilicians or the like to respect us, that might gain us some useful local support and the ability to move over the Anatolian plateau without having to fight our way past every parochial tribe that sees us as a potential loot pinata. And I'm pretty sure neither the ultraconservative Roman aristocrat Sulla nor the xenophobic Grecian supremacist Mithridates will be overly popular with the non-Greek rustics of the Anatolian plateau, nor will they have seen them as worth the effort to do more than push them aside.
Because if we can portray ourselves as rough enough and tough enough for the Isaurians or Cilicians or the like to respect us, that might gain us some useful local support and the ability to move over the Anatolian plateau without having to fight our way past every parochial tribe that sees us as a potential loot pinata. And I'm pretty sure neither the ultraconservative Roman aristocrat Sulla nor the xenophobic Grecian supremacist Mithridates will be overly popular with the non-Greek rustics of the Anatolian plateau, nor will they have seen them as worth the effort to do more than push them aside.
- Location
- Europe
Then it should be Sanguinea Perfidia or Sanguinea Proditio, unless @Publicola wants to correct me.
Yup, 'bloody' should be sanguinea (I think the extra 'a' in 'sanguinaea' was a typo).
Telamon was right to go with 'perfidia' (against + faith), which implies a direct personal betrayal, rather than 'proditio' (for + power) which is more generalized treason.
If we write a letter to Scaevola, would he be able to inform us about his contacts who might be useful to us? Or would he send them a letter of introduction directly so they reach out to us (eliminating the need for a separate personal action)?
Alternately, we are the broad-striped tribune of a Roman legion, which means everyone important will know about us. If we just conduct ourselves normally, wouldn't people find out about our connection to Scaevola and his patronage of us anyway?
The deciding factor is action economy, and I'm wondering if we need to invest one or more action into this, or if we can trust it to take care of itself.
- Location
- Texas
Title changed yet again, to Blood and Circuses — to better reflect the situation in Rome as well as the bloody murder which immediately follows the festivities.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
So guys, what happens if Rome does fall? As in, if the war goes so badly that Mithridates marches on Rome and razes the city.
Would we end up just roving around? Perhaps try to retake Rome? Flee to Hispania and try to link up with Sertorious? Try to make a new Rome somewhere?
Would we end up just roving around? Perhaps try to retake Rome? Flee to Hispania and try to link up with Sertorious? Try to make a new Rome somewhere?
[X] Plan Scope Out The Territory
Edit: Changed vote
Edit: Changed vote
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- Location
- Texas
Ah, yes, voting is open.
Bullmoose
A True Aristocrat
- Location
- Philadelphia
If Hannibal couldn't take Rome, I doubt Mithridates can. And I doubt he even wants to. He wants to carve out a dominion over Asia and Greece. I think he understands conquering Rome would be overextending himself by a lot.
So Even if Marius kills Sulla and then has a heart attack. And even if Mithridates is then able to scour all the legions in Asia ( hopefully not killing us), I think he'll try to sue for peace then. Rome still has innumerable resources and manpower to call on. Legions will keep being raised, as Carthage and Pyrrhus both learned. Taking Rome, when it can raise ever more armies and recall Sertorius from Hispania for able leadership, would be beyond the ability of Mithridates.
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Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Oh right, it's been 24 hours.
[X] Plan Study For War
-[X] The Marians
-[X] Theo
-[X] Gather Support
-[X] The Consul
-[X] Para Bellum
-[X] Study
[X] Plan Study For War
-[X] The Marians
-[X] Theo
-[X] Gather Support
-[X] The Consul
-[X] Para Bellum
-[X] Study
Canon Omake: The Sea Is A Cruel Mistress
Panory
The Omake Dragon
- Location
- New York
- Pronouns
- He/Him
The Sea is a Cruel Mistress
"I love when opportunity drops right into my lap, don't you?" Rufus seems extraordinarily chipper for one departing to fight his fellow countrymen in a bloody civil war.
"I prefer when they drop into mine, but I suppose your lap is a suitable consolation prize." you joke back.
"I see the triumph has only polished that silver tongue of yours." he snipes back. "But it's an opportunity for you as well. Weeks at sea, nothing to do but let the waves carry us to our destination."
"And prepare for the vicious war awaiting us at our destination."
"Of course, of course. But usually our says would be full of marching and drilling, and all that other unpleasantness. But on a ship, we can prepare more… academically." Rufus says the word with the sort of reverence a priest might reserve for his god.
"I take it you have something in mind?" you ask rhetorically.
"Correct as usual. During the triumph, I managed to procure a fascinating manuscript on Rome's naval history."
"Must be a short book." you snark.
"Hysterical," comes the deadpan response. "but there's a fair bit most people don't even think of. Even the stuff that ought to be common knowledge. An example. How was Hannibal defeated?"
"Publius Cornelius Scipio Africanus smashed him against the wall of Carthage." you barely even think about the answer. It was such a great victory that it renamed the victor after a continent; a name his descendants still carry with pride.
"Well, ultimately yes. But Hannibal was traipsing through Italy for years. He only went back to Carthage because he was called back. And he was called back, because Rome dominated the Carthaginian navy." Rufus wilts under your look. "Eventually they dominated the Carthaginian navy. But the point is, they did it. And now we joke about Rome's complete lack of seafaring accomplishments."
"That would be because there's a complete lack of Roman accomplishments on of sea."
"Precisely, but the state of the Roman navy is lagging far behind where it could easily be. If one were to study naval strategy, it would be simple to become the foremost authority on the subject in all the Republic."
Understanding lights up on your face. "So that's your ploy. Win a race in which no one else competes."
"Well when you put it like that, it sounds devious. I am merely shoring up an aspect of the Roman military that is sorely neglected compared to the glory that is the rest of Rome. If I win military accolades as Rome's greatest seaman and political clout, well, that's simply a side effect."
Silence reigns for a moment before you both break it with a laugh at Rufus' feigned humility. "If you care to join me, we could go over the manuscripts together. You're always picking up things I miss."
"And vice versa." you're quick to remind him.
Rufus shrugs off your compliment. "Regardless, I paid a pretty denarii for this, it would be a shame for only me to get use of it." His brow furrows. "At least, I assume I paid a pretty denarii. I just sort of woke up the next morning with a light purse and paper clutched in my arms."
"Well regardless of how you acquired it, I'll be sure to see if I can find the time. I have a lot of preparations for that little war we're going to fight. You know, the one on land?"
"Fair enough." Rufus laughs. "But if you ever want to peruse, the invitation stands. So go win your glory in Greece while I win mine on the waves around you."
"I look forward to seeing it."
XXX
"So I take it your dreams of Roman domination over the waves is put on hold. Unless throwing your lunch at the ocean is an attempt to beat it into submission. It is quite the projectile." The noise that answers you doesn't sound human, but it does sound absolutely miserable.
"Don't worry. I'll be sure to save you plenty of glory on solid ground."
AN: I wrote this whole thing before realizing that I'm not sure if Rufus is coming with us or not. I'll be sad if he isn't. Rufus is a bro.
My apologies for pulling the trigger before the opening of the vote.
- Location
- Texas
He very much is, making this omake canon.
1000 XP to Seafaring once the skill is learned.
Don't forget to adjust the threadmarked post to show that we now get one free Correspondence per turn.
And just like that, the 'Seafaring' skill gains a new degree of attractiveness -- mostly because we can probably 'level it up' to Still-Awful-But-Not-Quite-As-Bad with a single training action. Not sure if it's worth it, but Rufus definitely has a good point about there being a low bar to become the greatest....
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My burning desire to take the Seafaring action is gaining legitimacy, but I still don't think I can justify it.
Also, do we have confirmation on getting an additional action for writing letters? I'd like to either write to Scaevola or Cicero. Here's my current plan, I'd appreciate feedback, I was pretty torn on the personal actions.
Edit: Going to put Scaevola down for the correspondence for now. I think the information he could get us is potentially time sensitive, and so outweighs getting the Intelligence experience a turn earlier, as I assume we'd be writing to Cicero next turn.
2nd Edit: Correspondence is now going to Atticus. Swapped Res Publica for The Consul.
[X] Preparing for Asia
-[] The Marians: You wish to know if Cinna or his allies are planning anything before they do it, and to receive updates on their moves and strategies, that you might better plan your own actions in accordance with what they might do. (-10 Talents)
-[] Theo: A young Greek with happy eyes, Theo was a slave, then a gladiator until he lost use of his right arm. Useless as a fighter or a worker, he was tossed aside to die, but instead came to your father's attention due to his particular skill with people. To put it simply, one cannot help but be charmed by him, from the shine of his teeth to the twinkle in his eye. Your father would send him to the markets to buy a cartful of grain, and the Greek would return grinning with ten for the same price. The servants skip to do his word, if only because disappointing him would be like pissing in the eye of the sun itself, and he is capable of winning a smile from even the most dour and grim-faced of men.
-[] Gather Support: Sertorius may be gone, but you are still here. You reassure the men's worries and fears, and promise that if nothing else, you yourself will lead them to glory and wealth in the hills of Asia.
-[] The Consul: You attempt to strike up a conversation with the new-made Consul, Scipio Asiaticus. Famed back in Rome as an orator and a jurist, he may well provide good conversation, though you are under no illusions about making as deep a connection as you did with Sertorius, who loved your father.
-[] Fortune's Favor: After camp is made for the night, several of the officers, including Carcellus, Pompolussa, and Mercator, gather to gamble and game. They have extended you an invitation.
-[] Si Vis Pacem: You begin brushing up on your Greek, in ancticipation of subjugating Greek towns and villages in Asia.
-[] Correspondence: As part of your efforts to stay on top of events in Rome, you write to one of your contacts elsewhere in the Republic. With such long travel times, anything you write will take a long time to arrive. However, that does not mean you cannot write. You write to... (response will arrive in 2-3 turns)
--[] Atticus
Also, do we have confirmation on getting an additional action for writing letters? I'd like to either write to Scaevola or Cicero. Here's my current plan, I'd appreciate feedback, I was pretty torn on the personal actions.
Edit: Going to put Scaevola down for the correspondence for now. I think the information he could get us is potentially time sensitive, and so outweighs getting the Intelligence experience a turn earlier, as I assume we'd be writing to Cicero next turn.
2nd Edit: Correspondence is now going to Atticus. Swapped Res Publica for The Consul.
[X] Preparing for Asia
-[] The Marians: You wish to know if Cinna or his allies are planning anything before they do it, and to receive updates on their moves and strategies, that you might better plan your own actions in accordance with what they might do. (-10 Talents)
-[] Theo: A young Greek with happy eyes, Theo was a slave, then a gladiator until he lost use of his right arm. Useless as a fighter or a worker, he was tossed aside to die, but instead came to your father's attention due to his particular skill with people. To put it simply, one cannot help but be charmed by him, from the shine of his teeth to the twinkle in his eye. Your father would send him to the markets to buy a cartful of grain, and the Greek would return grinning with ten for the same price. The servants skip to do his word, if only because disappointing him would be like pissing in the eye of the sun itself, and he is capable of winning a smile from even the most dour and grim-faced of men.
-[] Gather Support: Sertorius may be gone, but you are still here. You reassure the men's worries and fears, and promise that if nothing else, you yourself will lead them to glory and wealth in the hills of Asia.
-[] The Consul: You attempt to strike up a conversation with the new-made Consul, Scipio Asiaticus. Famed back in Rome as an orator and a jurist, he may well provide good conversation, though you are under no illusions about making as deep a connection as you did with Sertorius, who loved your father.
-[] Fortune's Favor: After camp is made for the night, several of the officers, including Carcellus, Pompolussa, and Mercator, gather to gamble and game. They have extended you an invitation.
-[] Si Vis Pacem: You begin brushing up on your Greek, in ancticipation of subjugating Greek towns and villages in Asia.
-[] Correspondence: As part of your efforts to stay on top of events in Rome, you write to one of your contacts elsewhere in the Republic. With such long travel times, anything you write will take a long time to arrive. However, that does not mean you cannot write. You write to... (response will arrive in 2-3 turns)
--[] Atticus
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[] Preparing for Asia
Edit: Changed my vote.
Edit: Changed my vote.
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- Location
- Texas
Correspondence is now it's own option in the update.
- Location
- Mid-Atlantic
Again, I don't think we're sneaky enough to get much done trying to contact Scipio's servants without contacting Scipio himself.
Yeah. And I should note that just not being terrible at Seafaring or other such skills can pay off hugely if your enemy is terrible at them.The best Admiral in Rome at the moment is Lucullus, Sulla's second in command.
He has a four in Seafaring.
Think forwards towards the later phases of the civil wars- Caesar versus Pompey, and the wars following Caesar's death. A LOT of that warfare involved naval actions. Or take, say, Caesar's invasion of Britain, where proper naval support played a significant role.
I mean, we can have a spymaster? And Pompolussa didn't do a great job.
Logistics is important, and there is absolutely no guarantee we'll be able to find our own experts for it at will.
And this campaign is likely to see us effectively on our own, given the aforesaid comments about Asiaticus.
[X] Plan Scope Out The Territory
-[X] The Catilinarians (-4 Talents)
-[X] Theo
-[X] Gather Support
-[X] Correspondence
--[X] Atticus
-[X] Si Vis Pacem
-[X] The Consul
-[X] Fortune's Favor
So, a few notes here.
Atticus is an acquaintance of ours and Cicero's. He knows so much about Greece and is such a Hellenophile that in Rome his cognomen is "Athenian" the same way ours is "Dark-Haired." Writing him is going to be great practice for learning Greek and Greek culture. Plus, he's a philosopher like Cicero, so while he might not be AS good for Intelligence XP or the like, he's likely to improve comparable skills. Since I gather the correspondence vote has been made independent of other votes, I want to choose him to see what happens.
@Telamon , just to be clear, you HAVE edited the vote so that we can correspond with one of our contacts as a free action that doesn't cost personal actions, yes?
I want to study Greek ("Si Vis Pacem") because it aligns with our historical knack for trying to win the war by winning the peace, as with the Pentri.
I want to talk to Asiaticus to get his measure as a man, for reasons others have discussed.
I want to go with "Fortune's Favor" because I want to check in with the cast of our last campaign (Mercator, Pompolussa, etc.) and figure out where they stand before making any other political roles. Their opinion is going to matter.
My key points of difference from @Meep are:
1) I consider spying on the Marians to be risky.
2) I'd rather study Marius' campaigns than specifically legion tactics. We know SOME legion tactics, but studying Marius personally is apt to pay off in this situation.
3) I'm suggesting Atticus instead of Scaevola. Scaevola might offer cultural synergy, but so might Atticus, and Atticus synergizes closely with our attempts to study up on Greek.
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- Location
- Hell, or at least the closest place to it
First off, love the quest. Just read the whole thing. My mind is exploded.
Secondly, this is the war with Mithridates? Then in a decade if the time line remains the same, we have The Third Servile War, which means Spartacus, which might mean Crassus.
Yay.
Secondly, this is the war with Mithridates? Then in a decade if the time line remains the same, we have The Third Servile War, which means Spartacus, which might mean Crassus.
Yay.
- Location
- USA
[X] Plan Scope Out The Territory
I too mostly agree with this plan for a number of reasons. Firstly it was noted last turn that Cinna was cracking down on spies and espionage, what with having servants and slaves replaced that were more loyal. It's too risky to have Prosperina try to tap into that network when they're on high alert, especially when the Marians don't seem like the ones to actually plot right now, they're more reactive than proactive. As the Marians are still in power in Rome we somewhat know what they will do. If Marius beats Sulla, then they have no need to kill the Optimates to retain control. If Sulla beats Marius, then they will likely use the mob to kill prominent Optimates while shoring up the defense of Rome. Either way, none of this will help us in the long run.
Secondly, I agree with going to see the Consul now, for while he may be a military incompetent, he is still our commander, and making sure that he doesn't think we're going to usurp him, especially since we have time during this voyage, is a crucial thing, what with first impressions mattering a good deal.
I too mostly agree with this plan for a number of reasons. Firstly it was noted last turn that Cinna was cracking down on spies and espionage, what with having servants and slaves replaced that were more loyal. It's too risky to have Prosperina try to tap into that network when they're on high alert, especially when the Marians don't seem like the ones to actually plot right now, they're more reactive than proactive. As the Marians are still in power in Rome we somewhat know what they will do. If Marius beats Sulla, then they have no need to kill the Optimates to retain control. If Sulla beats Marius, then they will likely use the mob to kill prominent Optimates while shoring up the defense of Rome. Either way, none of this will help us in the long run.
Secondly, I agree with going to see the Consul now, for while he may be a military incompetent, he is still our commander, and making sure that he doesn't think we're going to usurp him, especially since we have time during this voyage, is a crucial thing, what with first impressions mattering a good deal.