- Location
- Europe
Yes, and reaching level 8 in subterfuge will raise our bonus to +1
Res Publica: A Quest of Ancient Rome
- Thread starter Telamon
- Start date
- Original Historic
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
Oooh, I completely misunderstood the post.
- Location
- USA
So how exactly is it determined whether or not we get Greek Horsemen or Greek Mercenaries? A roll of the die, or something we can influence?
At this point, though, considering this information, I think it's a must for us to take Si Vis Pacem personal action, as knowing how to actually speak Greek is going to be essential. Both when it comes to dealing with the auxiliaries and the surrounding population of the hostile cities.
- Location
- I think somewhere. I might be nowhere though
- Pronouns
- He/Him
Honestly, I do want to get our Seafaring stats up eventually. I recognize that it is vastly unimportant right now and thus definitely agree it should be put to the backburner, but I think getting a hang of naval matters would be a nice pursuit in the long-run.
Ridiculously Average Guy
I'm you, but stronger
- Location
-
But if we know anything about the sea we can't pull an Oddesy and get completely lost.
- Location
- Texas
The best Admiral in Rome at the moment is Lucullus, Sulla's second in command.
He has a four in Seafaring.
- Location
- Europe
As far as I can tell we are currently at:
Stats:
Military: Accomplished (13) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (6793/10000) to Rank 14
Charisma: Accomplished (11) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) --(3200/10,000) to Rank 12
Stewardship: Poor (4) -- (Levels 4) (-2 Modifier) -- (1200/4000) to Rank 5 (No Modifier)
Intelligence: Renowned (15) -- (Levels 15-17) (+4 Modifier) -- (390/15000[?]) to Rank 16
Education: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (700/10000) to Rank 11
Subterfuge: Average (7) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (0/7000) to Rank 8 (+1 Modifier)
Skills:
Combat: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (4230/10000) to Rank 11
Oratory: Accomplished (11) --(Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (2326/10000) to Rank 12
Command: Proficient (8) -- (Levels 8-9) (+1 Modifier) -- (1796/8000) to Rank 9
Engineering: Abysmal (1) -- (Levels 0-1) (-6 Modifier) -- (0/1000) to Rank 2 (-4 Modifier)
Logistics: Very Poor (2) -- (Levels 2-3) (-4 Modifier) -- (140/2000) to Rank 3
Law: Proficient (9) -- (Levels 8-9) (+1 Modifier) -- (4535/9000) to Rank 10 (+2 Modifier)
Philosophy: Average (5) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (374/5,000) to Rank 6
Administration: Average (5) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (4250/5000) to Rank 6
Diplomacy: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (120/10000) to Rank 11
Stats:
Military: Accomplished (13) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (6793/10000) to Rank 14
Charisma: Accomplished (11) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) --(3200/10,000) to Rank 12
Stewardship: Poor (4) -- (Levels 4) (-2 Modifier) -- (1200/4000) to Rank 5 (No Modifier)
Intelligence: Renowned (15) -- (Levels 15-17) (+4 Modifier) -- (390/15000[?]) to Rank 16
Education: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (700/10000) to Rank 11
Subterfuge: Average (7) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (0/7000) to Rank 8 (+1 Modifier)
Skills:
Combat: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (4230/10000) to Rank 11
Oratory: Accomplished (11) --(Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (2326/10000) to Rank 12
Command: Proficient (8) -- (Levels 8-9) (+1 Modifier) -- (1796/8000) to Rank 9
Engineering: Abysmal (1) -- (Levels 0-1) (-6 Modifier) -- (0/1000) to Rank 2 (-4 Modifier)
Logistics: Very Poor (2) -- (Levels 2-3) (-4 Modifier) -- (140/2000) to Rank 3
Law: Proficient (9) -- (Levels 8-9) (+1 Modifier) -- (4535/9000) to Rank 10 (+2 Modifier)
Philosophy: Average (5) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (374/5,000) to Rank 6
Administration: Average (5) -- (Levels 5-7) (No Modifier) -- (4250/5000) to Rank 6
Diplomacy: Accomplished (10) -- (Levels 10-14) (+2 Modifier) -- (120/10000) to Rank 11
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- Location
- Central Europe
People wanted agency? Now we have more agency then most people back in Rome! That said, I had hoped we would get at least one more traveling turn to work through this extensive list of pretty important personal actions, before we are thrown into the conflict. Well, alas, then my proposed plan looks as follows:
[] Plan Greek Glory
-[] The Marians
-[] Theo
-[] Gather Support
-[] The Consul
-[] Si Vis Pacem
-[] Study
-[] Write Home
--[] Cicero
We can't ignore a ruling consul who holds Imperium over Asia Minor and is also our Legate, not even when he is a puppet of Marius/Cinna. Especially not, when we are in competition with him over the Loyalty of the legion. That is the quickest way to get on the Marians kill list.
We will arrive in Greek lands next turn. I had hoped we would have more time, however now it seems we must prepare ourselves. For this I see 1) speaking Greek as indispensable and 2) studying up on some applicable military theorems. For the latter I have chosen the "Study" option. While both "Para Bellum" and "Res Publica" are valid alternatives, I feel the Marian campaign in Numidia is an lecture in Grand Strategy and thus important immediately after arriving. The other two focus more on strategic and tactical implication. Which I feel can wait at least one more turn.
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- Location
- Europe
Small wonder, since I copied them from the last time you posted them and added what we earned since then. And I already edited subterfuge.
- Location
- Texas
To properly answer this, no, with a few exceptions.
To extend the answer, Romans are patriots. They are reared from youth on the idea of Rome and love for their city. As Thyreus so eloquently put it: to the Romans, to be Roman is to be great. There is no higher honor. When Sulla turned and marched on Rome, only one of his officers could stomach to follow him. When Marius butchered Romans, Sertorius threatened to (and in some accounts, did) turn the swords of his legion on Marius' slaves and exiles to save the city.
The IX legion murdered their commander because he was an insufferable incompetent, not because they did not love Rome. A full half of them turned to Sulla, but the other, fearing Marius' punishment and yet unable to stomach servitude to Sulla, entered the service of Mithridates— if Marius had been a hair less terrifying or Sulla a hair less unappealing, it would not have happened.
Without specific circumstances to make your men choose between their lives and loyalty to Rome, it will be almost impossible to get any legion that is not immensely discontented to flip into the service of Rome's greatest enemy. To do so is to accept that you will never return home to the city of Romulus, save as conquerors, corpses, or slaves.
EDIT: In fact, I am reminded of the Gabiniani, the greatest traitor legion of Republican times. Left in Egypt by the general Aulus Gabinius to protect the Roman client King Ptolemy Auletes, they soon went native and became kingmakers in Egypt. The Gabiniani were responsible for the assassination of Pompey, and sought to defeat Caesar in his invasion of Egypt.
So to amend my prior statement: if you give the legion the choice between effectively running an entire kingdom and loyalty to Rome...then you can probably make them flip.
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@Telamon, I was wondering if you'd seen this, and if you'd consider it. Especially given the many months of delay between each letter, it feels like writing a single letter (even a long letter) could be something we do in bits and pieces, in fits and starts, whenever we have a spare moment to ourselves. It doesn't feel like the same level of time-commitment as 'going out of our way to befriend the other tribunes and officers in our legion' or 'intensively studying Marius' campaign in Africa'.
So: would it be possible for us to receive a single free 'Correspondence' action each turn? You could still offer 'Write Letters' as a personal action, so long as it represented a larger time-investment (letters to multiple correspondents). But for a single letter... committing a third of our action economy to write a single letter seems way too onerous.
- Location
- Texas
Hmm...alright, yes, I could be convinced to accept Correspondence as a single action each turn to a single recipient, with you receiving replies in 2/3 turns.
I'll edit the post when I get back home, but feel free to incorporate it into plans.
Always Late
Lacking in coffee, sleep, and brains
- Location
- Ohio
The Carthaginians are laughing at us from beyond the grave.The best Admiral in Rome at the moment is Lucullus, Sulla's second in command.
He has a four in Seafaring.
- Location
- nowhere
whats that old saying again? Amatures study tactics and strategy professionals study logistics we REALLY need to upgrade our logistics skills
I think directing Prosperina to keep an eye on the Marians makes the most sense, followed by the Sullans. The Catilinarians probably won't be making a move unless the Sullans do. I'd prioritize the Marians over the Sullans mostly because they're currently running Rome, a lot of optimates are in hiding after the murders, and we might end up learning what Marius himself is planning, which could help us coordinating our own movements. We're on his side at the moment. If we decide to stage a revolt and join Sulla, then I could be persuaded over to spying on the Sullans, but I still think we'd get more out of the Marians.
I think Theo is the obvious choice here, he speaks Greek fluently, which is a huge boon considering where we're headed. That also means we can pretty safely skip the action to learn Greek for now, as slots are pretty competitive. Carnigaeus is an interesting choice, he sort of replaces Tercerus, but we have one campaign under our belt, we don't have the same relationship with him that we do with Tercerus, and I think we get way more mileage out of Theo. It also lets Carnigaeus stay behind and continue training our household guard.
Picking both Loyalty and The Consul might get us a pretty big in with Scipio Asiaticus, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it. Asiaticus isn't Sertorius, so I don't know how much we'd get out of it other than a possibly new ally, and again, slots are competitive. I think Gather Support is the best option. It lets us stay the most non-committed of the three choices, doesn't have an action that it sort of needs to be fully effective, and ties the legion more closely to us, which is useful regardless of our choices going forward.
The three personal actions are the most interesting choices this update, in my opinion, as far as gameplay goes anyway.
To begin, Si Vis Pacem is a almost a requirement if we don't take Theo with us and is still competitive if we do. Atellus can't give many speeches if no one understands him.
I'll go in order from there. I don't think Writing Home is useful this turn. Cicero can get us Intelligence experience, sure, but we were just in Rome and there are a lot of things to do. Brotherhood is interesting, and it synergizes with Gather Support. The Consul should probably taken if we pick Loyalty. The Scipians is interesting, but I think we get more out of just talking to him. Still, if we want to go all in on figuring out Scipio, then it synergizes with The Consul and Loyalty. I don't think Sparring is worth it. Personal combat skill is nice but not worth it, Atellus is already in good shape, and is about to get a lot of experience from battle. I have a special place in my heart for Seafaring, but it's either going to be completely useless or absolutely amazing. If the best the Romans can put forward is 4, then not a lot of time is required before we're unbeatable on the sea. Not sure how often it would come up though. Para Bellum is a solid choice, in my opinion, we'd be studying older Greek tactics, but we might still get something out of it. Res Publica is even better than Para Bellum, I think, as knowing how to fight other legions is invaluable. The Cult is an interesting choice, and getting the officers to see things our way is important. Speaking of the officers, Fortune's Favor gets us in with important members of the legion, another solid choice. Study seems good, if a bit vague on what mechanical benefits we'd gain.
A tentative plan, but I'd love a way to justify taking Seafaring. I think there are a lot of good arguments for other personal actions, though. I kind of want to fit The Consul in, even if I don't think it's necessary. Swapping out Fortune's Favor for The Cult could work. The Cult feels more powerful if we choose Loyalty or Discord, though, and it seems a bit conspiratorial.
[] Preparing for Asia
-[] The Marians: You wish to know if Cinna or his allies are planning anything before they do it, and to receive updates on their moves and strategies, that you might better plan your own actions in accordance with what they might do. (-10 Talents)
-[] Theo: A young Greek with happy eyes, Theo was a slave, then a gladiator until he lost use of his right arm. Useless as a fighter or a worker, he was tossed aside to die, but instead came to your father's attention due to his particular skill with people. To put it simply, one cannot help but be charmed by him, from the shine of his teeth to the twinkle in his eye. Your father would send him to the markets to buy a cartful of grain, and the Greek would return grinning with ten for the same price. The servants skip to do his word, if only because disappointing him would be like pissing in the eye of the sun itself, and he is capable of winning a smile from even the most dour and grim-faced of men.
-[] Gather Support: Sertorius may be gone, but you are still here. You reassure the men's worries and fears, and promise that if nothing else, you yourself will lead them to glory and wealth in the hills of Asia.
-[] Res Publica: You study the formations of your own legions, the way Romans fight. After all, you may soon be doing war with Romans -- and what is more Roman than that?
-[] Fortune's Favor: After camp is made for the night, several of the officers, including Carcellus, Pompolussa, and Mercator, gather to gamble and game. They have extended you an invitation.
-[] Si Vis Pacem: You begin brushing up on your Greek, in ancticipation of subjugating Greek towns and villages in Asia.
Edit: And because I didn't really talk about where to put the bonus experience, my vote would go to Logistics and Engineering. They're both low cost for good benefits. Alternatively, we could save the experience for Seafaring, my true love.
I think Theo is the obvious choice here, he speaks Greek fluently, which is a huge boon considering where we're headed. That also means we can pretty safely skip the action to learn Greek for now, as slots are pretty competitive. Carnigaeus is an interesting choice, he sort of replaces Tercerus, but we have one campaign under our belt, we don't have the same relationship with him that we do with Tercerus, and I think we get way more mileage out of Theo. It also lets Carnigaeus stay behind and continue training our household guard.
Picking both Loyalty and The Consul might get us a pretty big in with Scipio Asiaticus, but I'm not sure it'd be worth it. Asiaticus isn't Sertorius, so I don't know how much we'd get out of it other than a possibly new ally, and again, slots are competitive. I think Gather Support is the best option. It lets us stay the most non-committed of the three choices, doesn't have an action that it sort of needs to be fully effective, and ties the legion more closely to us, which is useful regardless of our choices going forward.
The three personal actions are the most interesting choices this update, in my opinion, as far as gameplay goes anyway.
To begin, Si Vis Pacem is a almost a requirement if we don't take Theo with us and is still competitive if we do. Atellus can't give many speeches if no one understands him.
I'll go in order from there. I don't think Writing Home is useful this turn. Cicero can get us Intelligence experience, sure, but we were just in Rome and there are a lot of things to do. Brotherhood is interesting, and it synergizes with Gather Support. The Consul should probably taken if we pick Loyalty. The Scipians is interesting, but I think we get more out of just talking to him. Still, if we want to go all in on figuring out Scipio, then it synergizes with The Consul and Loyalty. I don't think Sparring is worth it. Personal combat skill is nice but not worth it, Atellus is already in good shape, and is about to get a lot of experience from battle. I have a special place in my heart for Seafaring, but it's either going to be completely useless or absolutely amazing. If the best the Romans can put forward is 4, then not a lot of time is required before we're unbeatable on the sea. Not sure how often it would come up though. Para Bellum is a solid choice, in my opinion, we'd be studying older Greek tactics, but we might still get something out of it. Res Publica is even better than Para Bellum, I think, as knowing how to fight other legions is invaluable. The Cult is an interesting choice, and getting the officers to see things our way is important. Speaking of the officers, Fortune's Favor gets us in with important members of the legion, another solid choice. Study seems good, if a bit vague on what mechanical benefits we'd gain.
A tentative plan, but I'd love a way to justify taking Seafaring. I think there are a lot of good arguments for other personal actions, though. I kind of want to fit The Consul in, even if I don't think it's necessary. Swapping out Fortune's Favor for The Cult could work. The Cult feels more powerful if we choose Loyalty or Discord, though, and it seems a bit conspiratorial.
[] Preparing for Asia
-[] The Marians: You wish to know if Cinna or his allies are planning anything before they do it, and to receive updates on their moves and strategies, that you might better plan your own actions in accordance with what they might do. (-10 Talents)
-[] Theo: A young Greek with happy eyes, Theo was a slave, then a gladiator until he lost use of his right arm. Useless as a fighter or a worker, he was tossed aside to die, but instead came to your father's attention due to his particular skill with people. To put it simply, one cannot help but be charmed by him, from the shine of his teeth to the twinkle in his eye. Your father would send him to the markets to buy a cartful of grain, and the Greek would return grinning with ten for the same price. The servants skip to do his word, if only because disappointing him would be like pissing in the eye of the sun itself, and he is capable of winning a smile from even the most dour and grim-faced of men.
-[] Gather Support: Sertorius may be gone, but you are still here. You reassure the men's worries and fears, and promise that if nothing else, you yourself will lead them to glory and wealth in the hills of Asia.
-[] Res Publica: You study the formations of your own legions, the way Romans fight. After all, you may soon be doing war with Romans -- and what is more Roman than that?
-[] Fortune's Favor: After camp is made for the night, several of the officers, including Carcellus, Pompolussa, and Mercator, gather to gamble and game. They have extended you an invitation.
-[] Si Vis Pacem: You begin brushing up on your Greek, in ancticipation of subjugating Greek towns and villages in Asia.
Edit: And because I didn't really talk about where to put the bonus experience, my vote would go to Logistics and Engineering. They're both low cost for good benefits. Alternatively, we could save the experience for Seafaring, my true love.
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- Location
- Europe
We have the necessary exp in the bank to raise logistics to the next level. That and engineering.
Awesome. All right, that leaves us with an extra action this turn, since we'll be writing to Cicero for free.
For our Personal actions, my vote is:
- The Consul (spend time with Asiaticus to see what we can learn from him, to see how competent he'll be in the field, and to see if he's someone who can win our respect and loyalty)
- Fortune's Favor (spend time with the officers, to develop our relationships and ensure their loyalty to us)
As for the final action, we should use it to train, but at this point I am totally flexible on which one to pick.
- 'Si Vis Pacem' would let us study Greek culture with Theo, to boost our future diplomancing
- 'Para Bellum' would let us study Greek warfare, to boost our efforts on the battlefield against our regular opponents
- 'Res Publica' would let us study Roman warfare, to improve our odds in the boss fight against the treacherous legion
- 'Study' would let us study Marius' campaign in Africa, when he successfully did what we're attempting to do here and now
Finally, now that we get one free correspondence per turn, we should really decide on a 'rotation' for these. Cicero is the most important, to boost Intelligence, but we'll have 2-3 turns between his responses, so we can fit in regular letters to Prosperina and Scaevola as well. We might consider letters to Atticus (for a straightforward boost to our Education/Oratory/Law skills) or Volero (he was one of the best sparring partners we've had, so perhaps this would boost our military-related skills? Not sure how letters would help us with 'Combat', but perhaps 'Command' or 'Logistics' would benefit from his advice. He might also give us information about wherever he happens to be currently serving).
- Location
- Europe
Frankly I consider taking more than one social action as a waste here. This war is going to be a long one (just look at how many updates there were for the Samnites), we'll have plenty of opportunities to further increase our standing, especially with Theo at our side. Besides, Mithridates is no push over, we will have to prepare accordingly and the sooner we get started, the better.
Just think back to the Samnite war. There are more ways to earn the legion's love than voting for it in personal actions. There is honouring them when due, giving them money, leading them competently. The same can't be said of study options. Soon we'll have to ride out to secure supply lines, or catch outriders or we'll drill the cohorts. This might be the last chance we get to learn before the hard realities of war will make other options more pressing.
As a last point I want to point out that "Study" is a potential hidden social option. Remember Veniximaeus of the Gauls? Nothing gets old veterans going like talking about the wars they fought in. Study the African campaigns and both Marius and Sulla will probably chew our ears off.
Just think back to the Samnite war. There are more ways to earn the legion's love than voting for it in personal actions. There is honouring them when due, giving them money, leading them competently. The same can't be said of study options. Soon we'll have to ride out to secure supply lines, or catch outriders or we'll drill the cohorts. This might be the last chance we get to learn before the hard realities of war will make other options more pressing.
As a last point I want to point out that "Study" is a potential hidden social option. Remember Veniximaeus of the Gauls? Nothing gets old veterans going like talking about the wars they fought in. Study the African campaigns and both Marius and Sulla will probably chew our ears off.
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Gonna be a long wait, and with missed Logistics XP from study actions, we should have enough bonus XP to bring it only to -2. Which would be pretty important, because there's always a use for logistics, so we should get better at it fast.
- Location
- Central Europe
We can outsource our Logistics rolls, for example to Pompolussa as we did in Samnium. We can't outsource our Military or Subterfuge rolls while on campaign.
I'm not saying Logisitics isn't important, but I would rather save our Bonus XP for something else.
Edit: I'm unsure how much would be XP would needed after that missing study action. If it isn't too much I might be persuaded. However, I feel that until we reach a much higher Rank of Logisitics would continue to outsource the action regardless...
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I'll actually disagree with that, for now. Boosting Intelligence is good, and we should write a letter to Cicero, but I do not believe it is very time-sensitive. We can write a letter to him next turn, and still get that Intelligence XP boost. There is however, something time sensitive - namely, a letter to our patron Scaevola, who was a wildly successful proconsul in this province. We can ask him for advice on how to work here, or perhaps even connections to someone important in the province Scaevola knows. And getting anything like that is better sooner than later, I think.
Thing is, Subterfuge boost is ~7000 XP away, only for +1 boost, and Military is ~13000 XP away for +2 boost. It seems like quite a long wait before we will get enough bonus XP to boost any of them to a new level, and for a smaller bonus. In Logistics, however, we are only 7-8k away from an Average skill, a +4 boost. And while delegation is well and good, it takes those people from other tasks, and I can well imagine a situation where we would be unable to delegate. All in all, I'd sleep much better if we cover that rather glaring hole in our military skills.
- Location
- Central Europe
During the Samnite Campaign a generic Officer had Proficient Logistics (+1), so even at Average we would probably try to outsource logistics actions. That is, as stated in the edit of my previous post, my main issue with pushing Logistics. No matter if our skill is at -4,-2 or 0. We are most of the time going to let a more skilled subordinate handle it.
Regarding the times we might find ourselves without even generic officers, I think we will have to risk it. Because by that logic having Seafaring at 0 (-6) is much more risky ahead of our voyage across the Mediterranean.
- Location
- Austria
Well, true, but at the same time logistics is the lifeblood of warfare. I think that for a to-be military leader it is quite an important skill to have, moreso than personal combat ability, for example.
Of course, knowing Greek should do us well too. After all, we are somewhat silver-tongued and are respected by Legion. We should do well to capitalize on both of those things.
Of course, knowing Greek should do us well too. After all, we are somewhat silver-tongued and are respected by Legion. We should do well to capitalize on both of those things.